CVA - Moving On

[Not Much Left]

So much for letting things simmer till Christmas.
W sent me an email asking if we could get together to discuss Xmas gifts / plans / agreement for attorneys.

Called her and asked if we could talk about right now and of course it was while she was picking up the kids.

So I just asked what her plans are for xmas (Dallas) she says "well, I want to go see my family......silence.....", OK, when I ask, I dont know, the 27th? OK. Guarantee the kids will not want to go but I will be supportive.

Then I tell her I have found 2 houses, which I have to make a decision on. I think she wants to have everything spelled out in an agreement which will hose me regarding timing of the house. By the time we work through everything, it will be too late and the house(s) will be gone. I really think she wants the pre-D agreement to protect herself (from whatever I dont know) and doesnt understand that we can do whatever we want till it is final.

I will talk to her about it tonight. This woman is still SO cold but polite it is amazing. She literally talks to me with ZERO emotion in her voice. DONE, FINAL. One day, I will get there I guess. Shattered dreams and all that BS.

It's time to shake it up. I am going to tell her about what I want tonight in terms of expenses, calmly, rationally but like it is. No more full time maid, no more pool service, limiting dinners out the works.

*SHE* needs to come up with her own budget and do some work to show me what she wants. She's too busy spending all day shopping for xmas gifts and doing things for the teachers at our school. Too busy to think about the ramifications of what is going to happen. Glad she is doing that but as usual, I have to pick up the slack on everything else that needs to get done. Yes, I still am angry about all that....maybe never be any different. I dont know.

C

[Nomopo]

Hi CVA! Some tough love coming.

So much for letting things simmer till Christmas.[?quote]
Why do you say this? What am I missing? What happened or what was said that prevents YOU from still standing still or, as you say, letting things simmer?

[quote=CVA]W sent me an email asking if we could get together to discuss Xmas gifts / plans / agreement for attorneys. Called her and asked if we could talk about right now

Good idea to discuss that stuff. And look, she did something. You are always complaining that she does nothing. Well, she did something. She took the initiative to talk about some things that need to be addressed. Note that she asked to talk in person and later, and that didn't work for her. You called right away and pushed, forced, pressured her to talk then, on your terms, not on her offer.

and of course it was while she was picking up the kids.

You sound surprised. You didn't know she'd be doing that. School was out then, right? Maybe it's the Internet, but you sound irritated or annoyed by this. If so, why? What gives? Is it your attitude? Assuming she is jacking with you? I don't see that.

So I just asked what her plans are for xmas (Dallas)

Ok, so you know this is a possibility. It's been on your mine. You asked to find out. How's your attitude at this point. Ready to be open to her going to see her family (which is very reasonable, and has been done frequently in the past, or are you in a frame of mind to get upset? If so, that's the subtle pressure (implicit disapproval) you've been struggling to undertsand.

she says "well, I want to go see my family......silence....."

Silence means you were silent. She didn't have to say more. She was waiting for (and dare I say dreading) your response. And you met her request to take the kids to see family in Dallas for part of the holiday break from school with . . . SILENCE. Why? Did you not expect this request? Do you think it is an unfair request? Explain that me. Why did this warrant silence, and not, "ok, I understand, sure (or even that's great, or good idea), and when were you thinking of going"?

OK, when I ask, I dont know, the 27th? OK.

Both of your "OKs" I suspect were said with tone, or hurt, or bad attitude. Or a sense of being wronged. Am I right? WHY???? You're killing yourself man. Making it worse on yourself, and reinforcing your W's decision at every turn.

Go back and read SirPrizeMe's posts again. It's all about attitude, and how you view things, at this point CVA. You have to get that point, or you'll be hurting a lot longer than necessary.

Guarantee the kids will not want to go but I will be supportive.

Kids may want to go, and even if they don't, they ought to spend time with her family. Period. And when you say you'll be supportive, you got some ground to make up after the start.

Then I tell her I have found 2 houses, which I have to make a decision on.

Did you strike why the iron was cold? Were you trying to punish her a little here by bringing this up on this call?

I think she wants to have everything spelled out in an agreement which will hose me regarding timing of the house.

Her cautiousness is warranted. This is important, scray stuff. If you get frustrated, and show that, and push/pressure her to act quickly, it may well make things worse for you and both of you.

Now, what do you want/need her to do exactly to get this house? Sign something? Agree to something? Validate your decision? What?

By the time we work through everything, it will be too late and the house(s) will be gone.

Well, if it doesn't happen in time, we both know there will be other houses/options.

I really think she wants the pre-D agreement to protect herself (from whatever I dont know) and doesnt understand that we can do whatever we want till it is final.

Again, she's being careful. That is reasonable. What do you need here to do? Why?

I will talk to her about it tonight.

If you do this tonight (or whenever), calmly, respectfully, politely, and give her time to consider it. Don't push for an answer right away. Maybe ask her what she needs to make a decision, or get comfortable. Talking to a L?

This woman is still SO cold but polite it is amazing. She literally talks to me with ZERO emotion in her voice. DONE, FINAL.

What emotion do you expect to see. Giving how's she is feeling, they likely would be unpleasant emotions, so no emotion may be good. This takes time CVA. She's raw; the wounds are fresh (for btoh of you). The politeness, friendliness, will come with time, and it will defelop slowly.

One day, I will get there I guess. Shattered dreams and all that BS.

You will, and you, primarily, control the pace.

It's time to shake it up.

Shake what up???? WHY??????

I am going to tell her about what I want tonight in terms of expenses, calmly, rationally but like it is. No more full time maid, no more pool service, limiting dinners out the works.

Angry, trying to punish her, teach her a lesson??? Is this the best time? While you need her help on a house? During the holidays? Are you striking while the iron is hot or cold?

*SHE* needs to come up with her own budget and do some work to show me what she wants.

Says who? Why? Are you controlling her here. I'd submit that she doesn't HAVE to do any of that. You're the one who wants to work without Ls. You can't MAKE her do anything, and if you're not careful, it could go South. You're the one motivated primarily to do this amicably, without Ls, not her.

She's too busy spending all day shopping for xmas gifts and doing things for the teachers at our school.

Not terribly validating of what she is doing for your kids/family/perhaps you.

Too busy to think about the ramifications of what is going to happen.

I suspect she is thinking about it. Maybe not as much as you and maybe she doesn't see it as clearly or like you.

Glad she is doing that

This sentiment from you does not come across to me.

but as usual, I have to pick up the slack on everything else that needs to get done. Yes, I still am angry about all that....

But this sentiment is LOUD and CLEAR.

may never be any different. I dont know.

But, it is up to you entirely.

Hope it helps. Sorry if I am off base.

Nomo

[SunnySeason]

It's time to shake it up. I am going to tell her about what I want tonight in terms of expenses, calmly, rationally but like it is. No more full time maid, no more pool service, limiting dinners out the works.

*SHE* needs to come up with her own budget and do some work to show me what she wants.

Should be interesting to see how this unfolds, since it is a new way for you to address the fact that it will be a different world for both of you after D, & changes will have to be made.

Let us know how the talk goes tonight. Calm & rational is the way to go, as you're intending.

((((CVA))))

Definitely
L&L,

Sunny

[Heimlich]

CVA,

Please show her some respect and courtesy, even if it kills you. I can feel your disapproval of her choices through here. Look, I know it's going to kill me on Christmas morning when my kids aren't here. I know they'll have fun with my W's parents though. It's important for your kids to spend time with all relatives, there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm halfway between Nomo and Sunny on the expenses discussion. Things WILL change. Is your intent tonight to punish/hurt your W or to calmly and rationally start a discussion about what the financial ramifications will be of the split? The end result financiall will most likely be the same. What do you want the end result to be emotionally?

Tone, man, tone.

BD

[Not Much Left]

Ok, thanks my friends
A lot of truth. I am just so worn out by all this...Nomo, CVA thinks you are right, my tone is LOUD and CLEAR. I will support the Dallas thing happily as I know what it means to her.

So, what I was thinking was that I should approach it in a joint fashion, "W, can wee work through a budget that works for you and the kids given the situation of me getting a house and just go line by line...the obvious stuff falls out...Maid etc."

Yes, no?

I truly am trying my best at NOT being vindictive and "punishing" her. Sometimes Mr. Control says, "hey, the only thing you control here is the cash so...." That would be the devil on my shoulder when the other side says, "CVA, now, now now, you control your emotions, take the high road, be firm but fair and reasonable"....Dont you all struggle with those thoughts? Am I the only one?

This pretty much boils down to one "feeling" that I have, I must be SO bad that she is willing to do all this to get away from me. Please no 2x4s, its a feeling that will take time to heal and not being in her head, I dont know that she even has thought about all the ramification rationally to come to that conclusion.

Thanks for your thoughts and tough love.

C

[Nomopo]

Well, unless that discussion of expenses/budgets has to happen in the next five days, let's get a beer next week and talk details to prepare. Just an offer. Won't think twice if you decline.

Nomo

[Puddle]

Hey CVA,

Go have a beer with Nomo. Sit with this stuff for a few days before you hash it out with W. Clear, negative emotions coming through from you here, and you really want to be in a good place before you start in with W.

You know this is scary stuff for her, so before you push any buttons that could send this thing straight into the crapper, get yourself well together.

(((CVA))), take care.

[Not Much Left]

Thx Puddle!

[Atlas]

CVA,

I hear the tone as well, and agree with what Nomo is saying. You have to protect yourself, but can you find that place without punishing W and making some type of agreement. Come back to the PMA that you are!

[SunnySeason]

CVSweet,

You know this is scary stuff for her

Recently you mentioned that you thought the reason W didn't ask about your housing prospects, was b/c she wasn't interested.
I, like Pud, said that she is more than likely afraid to think about, let alone discuss, the very real outcome of splitting assets up & the buying of new homes, etc., even if it is her wanting the split.

A combination of truly acting AS IF, showing the supportive, agreeable, happy CVA, & delicately working through whatever she wants addressed might be something you may try. Doesn't mean you have to give anything away, just that she wouldn't take it as punishing her.
Something along the lines of the e-mail you told me you wrote her late this afternoon that was very supportive of her taking the kids to Dallas during the holidays.
In fact, I think you even mentioned that she might want to take off sooner than the 27th & that would be fine with you.
That's a step in the right direction, I believe.

So yes, go have a beer w/Nomo, slow down your actions & re-group.
I know how charming you can be, you have me sold for sure.....on to your W.


L&L,

Sunny