A Happy Thread

[Just_Me]

Further J_M, it is no secret that you and I sit on opposite sides of a well-worn track

Yeah? You think so? Just kidding.

About some issues I think we are on opposite sides, but I think your opinions are based on my posts to DNQ...or the ones that defend him. As I said, I don't think you know me. That's okay though. Differences of opinion are common on these boards.

[Just_Me]

Why is that so hard for this BB? Maybe b/c they do not want to hear it? Maybe b/c they do not want to believe that this can be their outcome? Or even that they may have to admit to themselves that this should be their outcome?

I think that's probably a big part of it.

The people on surviving the big D aren't supportive of you moving on because they like to have other failures to make themselves feel better. No, they are supportive because they have been where you are. Most of them are there because the D proceeded despite their efforts and so they are left surviving or because they realized that their spouse really wasn't the one for them....because a relationship with this person would be unhealthy. I think you are in the later category.

[WCW]

I get it Jeff, I read what you've said, I know what you've told me - hanging on to false hope. I remember, very well.

No more academic contributions. The light is changing at the corner of Done and Gone.

[frank_D]

BTW, thanks for caring; I enjoyed this discussion. You and I have had heated exchanges. But real men rise above that sort of thing. Heated exchanges are needed for growth.

Thank you.

Yes, they are. We may 'butt heads' but in the end we both get something out of it.

[faithisbelieving]

Jeff....I apologize for being AWOL here. As you know, my sitch hit a critical point. I am just catching up here.

First off, a belated happy birthday. My mom is 84 years old, walks 2-3 miles at Jones Beach every few days and I could not picture life without her in it. Your Mom hit 90 with your support. In the last few months you participated in her health management by making some difficult decisions with regards to her health care. You've done well Jeff. Can you see a loving son here?

Then...I was upset by some of your self-bashing last week. I know BBA has a way of putting our, uh, cajones in a vice sometimes, but, it is usually well-placed. The timing might have been a day off, but her insight is incredible. Go back and read her post the next time you get those feelings. Now, as a little 'tushy-smacking' from me, let's go back to our old buddy David Cunningham:

Dear Loser,

> As of today, you have been on my mailing list for 22 days. On 17 of those 22 days, you have e-mailed me stating that nothing I've recommended could possibly work, yet asking me for a free copy of my book. Listen up, because this is the last free advice or other favor I'm going to waste my time giving you:
> You're attitude isn't that of an achiever, or even a
> skeptic or a pessimist; it's truly that of a loser. You're
> insecure about being unattractive because of your increasing age, weight, and hair-loss, and rather than taking the achiever's path of looking for a solution, you're taking the coward's path of looking for confirmation that you're hopeless and therefore can't be expected to do any better so you won't
> have to try.
>
> I'm not going to apologize for being blunt about this, because the 17 letters I've already sent you to try to help you
> see, among other things, that I am middle-aged, overweight, and
> losing my hair have produced nothing but frustration for either of us - for me, because you don't want to improve, and for you, because I won't be your enabler and confirm for you that any effort you might make would be wasted.
>
> I however, will waste no more effort with you; I've spent more than a full work-day trying to help you see that you can be
> attractive to your wife and everyone else, and you refuse to even try to listen, let alone try to do anything to make it happen. I have removed you from my mailing list, and ask that you don't reinsert your name unless and until you decide that you want some help being more than what you are instead of
> confirmation that "not good enough is good enough."
>
> In short, your fired, and if you don't get off your
> butt and realize that you can make a change and can lead a productive and happy life by doing nothing more than changing your attitude and doing what comes natural afterwards, your wife and employer will likely be considering the same action. My list of readers is for achievers, heroes, and winners, not cowards, whiners, or losers.
>
> Sincerely,
> David Cunningham

Jeff....I know you. You are neither of the above. You are entitled to have those moments of being down. Don't bash yourself anymore. Don't just look at the words that are typewritten above...look at the intent and message.

Next..and most difficult. I know that there oftimes appear to be some 'clashing' here and you know where I am going next. Most people know from my thread that Jeff and frank_d are huge supporters for me. I can honestly post here that frank_d SINCERELY CARES FOR JEFF. I know...I have spoken with both on the phone. Perhaps the stick appeared to have the bark on it at times, but I know that all his posts were meant from the heart.

Jeff...I know where you are right now. I know. I can say similarly as you have spoken with regards to me. I have listened to you. But...I do want to confirm that I think frank_d's observations are true. I think that XXX approaches you when, in your own words, you have dealt with her fairly and firmly and without anger. There is one thing that you and I cannot change Jeff. We will always be tied to our wives. We will be there when our children get confirmed...graduate....and married. I think it behooves us to get to that place that, perhaps, we'd even share a dance with them. No Jeff...you and I aren't there yet, but, should we, when ready, work to get to that place?
Should you have laughed and talked with XXX when she called the other day?
Should you have asked her what her biz plans were?
Should you have asked her what kind of restaurants were in the area?
Last week Jeff, even as I knew my M had reached a very bad point, frank_d asked me, "what women would want to be around you with the way you were acting?". He was right...who would? Even if we weren't going to make it...why be the way I was?

Doom, gloom, laziness, and cowardice are insidious foes that can slowly creep into the lives of the best of people when they are having a weak moment, and slowly erode their self-esteem until
there is nothing left of them. It can happen so slowly that you never see it happen

Jeff, you have shown such strength in the last two years of your life. If XXX is making some movements towards you, I would embrace them as a future of good coparenting. Although I understand that, right now, the chance of reconciliation with her is near nil, Dr. Gray says that it usually can never really occur until one let's go completely and forgives. Look at me..what do I do if the same happens to my W in the next two weeks???

Finally Jeff, if you are not ready to date, then so be it. You told me that you spend a lot of time reading now. Stay with it. The risk for making a mistake again are high until you spend some time alone and embrace YOURSELF. For those who haven't spoken with him, I can say that Jeff has a strong commanding tone of voice. He is steady. He has conviction. He is the type of man you would want in your Men's Club or softball team. To me, he is just a great guy.

Stay strong Jeff. My turn...I think you are doing great. As for hobbies, what did you have/do prior to M? FIB

[Jeff223]

Thanks FIB.

Journal:

Continue my ups and downs with W. I grow weary of the tests and her attacks only to be followed by good exchanges.

I have been gone all week on travel. I was ill last weekend but I got well enough to leave Monday. She sends me an email Sunday and asks how I was feeling. Pleasant exchange.

Monday she sends an email titled "grand finale" and she proceeds to gloat about buying a house and "moving on". Then rips into me about some legal stuff. Her lawyer says we should do YYY instead of XXX. She says: "forgive me if I seem to be pushing..."

I write back "Once again your lawyer is giving you bad advice ..." and I call her on it; YYY was not correct. I told her "I grow tired of looking like I am causing the problems when it is your lawyer who is making the mistakes"

She backs down - "Okay XXX it is. I didn't mean to upset you. I think well of you". And she goes on to say "I think we've done good for the kids and each other in terms of respect and good will"

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

Another email follows: she asked for my mom's address - wants to send a Christmas card.

I so not want to deal with her any longer.

Behind in my Christmas prep. I don't get the kids until Christmas Day in the evening; I may ask W to see them next week (I missed my time with them b/c of travel and the "rules" don't allow make-up time).

Got to buy presents next week.

My brother and family is coming in to see my mom at Christmas but I am dreading that. I don't like my brother and Christmas is a stressful enough time without their visit.

If I sound depressed and a bit angry it is b/c I am.

This too shall pass.

[Jeff223]

Latest:

W called and asked for me to call her. I got the message late.

I called. Seems she found a house.

I lied (I meant validated ) and said I was excited for her.

Then she keeps me on the phone 30 minutes and asks my advice on how much she should offer, how to finance it, the down payment, closing costs, how to move, etc.

I just went with the flow and supported her all the way. I even told her I would run some numbers for her; you know, 15 year loan vs 30 year.

Then she describes the new house. How the bedrooms are smaller than OUR bedrooms, how the layout is different than OUR house.

Made me a bit ill.

Something she HAS to do I recon.

She was so excited that I was helping her. I almost had to end the call myself - she was going on and on. No, not rubbing my face in it like before but asking question after question. At one point she said "I am no good at this at all, this financial stuff, sorry for asking all these questions".

I just said "no problem, you will do fine" and offered to help her any way I can.

What else could I do?

Ugggg.

[faithisbelieving]

You did well padawan. Welcome back Jeff...you sounded 'off' today and your posts confirm this. It's just like they say, the holidays are a rough time. I will now repeat to you.....think of that cruise ship.........

FIB

[frank_D]

You did the right thing.

Somethings happening here. 'Our' rooms?

Do you see how she is comparing her 'new life' to her old life - and it's not quite as nice, is it?

And there you are. Caring, decent, supportive.

She is going to be seeing a lot of changes in her life soon.

[No_hill_for_a_Swimmer]

What else could I do

There was no alternative. U did good.