Look, if you don't want us to help, you can just tell us to "bug out." I do respect your privacy, and I'm only giving you my opinion. I could be wrong.
I don't think I am, though, and if we're NOT wrong, then you can't work on your marriage while your wife is opening herself up emotionally to another man.
I'mmmmm Baaccckkk!!! Friends...I will try to summarize the craziness of the whole thing with a couple of pointed quotes from you and some of my own ramblings...my other post got deleted(dang internet)
Originally Posted By: mcolHere are the issues that have presented themself since I have re-engaged my W.
Good morning all.
I have migrated my posts from infidelity/extra-marital affairs to this forum. Long story short, I perceived that my W was having an affair with some guy she met online. Her whole family was thinking the same thing and sadly we were all wrong. The sad thing is that I acted on a perception after she told me she wanted to separate and backdate the separation to the date of my deployment 22 Feb 07. I freaked out thinking that she was going to serve me with divorce papers the day I came back from Afghanistan.
In a knee jerk reaction, I took money out of our joint account (my money) and put it in a separate account that I had established. I cancelled power of attorney for her and extended a power of attorney for my kids to her mom. Needless to say she was infuriated by all...naturally. When I finally talked to her last night, I explained my position and the issues that led up to me doing what I did to give a comparison, I believe it took away some of the sting but it did not remove the stinger.
We also discussed many other issues in our relationship and I ask you with much more experience than me what I can do about the following things. Keep in mind that I am in Afghanistan and I am limited to online interactions (lately), phone calls and rarely written correspondence. So please fire away, because I desparately want to save my R.
1) Emotional tie-in and availability 2) Areas of common interest 3) Her desire to seek legal separation (may wane) 4) Her guilt about not being able to convince me to leave the military 5) Time missed with her dead father as a result of being my wife 6) Me not being there to hold her in her darkest hours 7) Communication issues-she did not tell me for 6 months that she was having doubts about our relationship. First sign I got was a letter from her saying I needed to consider life without her in the picture. 8) She thinks that I have only been focused on me the whole marriage 9) Her belief (some truth) that I did not put my family over the Army 10) MAJOR TRUST ISSUES...after I changed bank accounts and took money out of the joint account she says she does not know who that person was.
Clearly we have a lot to work through and I am ready to roll my sleeves up but I do not want to get rolled over trying to resolve these issues. Please help. [/quote
This is old business but should provide a frame of reference. The issues are still valid but I am nowhere near the point where I can tackle any of them due to the OM.
[quote=mcol] mcol, now that the EA/PA has been disproved, will you describe the current relationship between your W and the guy previously suspected to be the OM?
This was the first anvil to the head...what was I thinking? Nothing had changed with her and OM despite my new found belief in my wife's honesty.
Originally Posted By: chocolateeyes
mcol,
I'm sorry, but I'm not buying. You strike me as a sharp, sensitive guy, and you suspected SO much that you made the drastic moves of separating your finances and seeking out legal counsel, as well as involving family members. Now, you've totally done a 180.
I asked you yesterday, "By what evidence have you come to the conclusion that your wife is not having at least an EA?", and you responded:
Quote: I completely understand what you are saying and you are not the only one who has mentioned this same concern. Quite frankly, I have my own concerns. One thing that W said yesterday that sticks in my mind is "If I wanted to have an affair no one would know about it". I believe this to be true. I do believe she has trusted in this guy for emotional support...to what level I would call that an emotional affair, not sure.
Trust me when I say the scenario is not lost on me but I have to be honest that at this moment I am more concerned for the other part of our R that were identified last night and not a possible EA.
I will have to wait and see because I am far from re-kindling anything. But my wife has a very hard time lying and her level of emotion she was dealing with last night makes it very difficult to think she was lying about her relationship with him. Time will tell...even if it was an emotional affair, she has been called on it and I believe that she wants to save our marriage as well. Me not being there has had a significant impact on her...that and not having her dad right now is just very difficult.
(emphasis mine)
You do understand, don't you, that if she HAS been unfaithful, that all infidels lie? She would NOT tell you the truth about it. Unless I'm missing something, what I'm hearing you say is, "I believe her because I believe her."
You suspected it; even her own family suspected it. You are the people who know her, and the situation, the best.
You at least owe it to yourself to get some unbiased, 3rd-party proof, one way or another. It will either put your mind at ease, or it will give you the information you need to deal with the situation wisely and effectively.
Put a keylogger on her computer, and/or hire a private investigator, if you can afford one. I had to put a keylogger on our PC and eventually put a voice-activated recorder in my wife's car. I had a friend of a friend follow her. I INSISTED the entire time that everyone on the message boards was wrong, that my wife was asexual, if anything, and that it would turn up nothing.
Instead, it turned up that she was meeting her 29yo (my wife and I are 47) personal trainer in department store parking lots, meeting up at his friend's house for sex, and heavy petting in her car, that I was paying for!
Choc, you are quickly becoming my hero...thanks for challenging this man....anvil to the head #2
Originally Posted By: burgbud
From mcol's sig: Top areas to work: 1) Communication 2) Making my wife first in everything From my evening's reading: Quote: As a therapist, I've worked with couples where the woman insisted that she should be her man's number one priority. This is a recipe for disaster. A man must make his passion his number one priority. By doing so, he gives his woman (or women) something to be attracted to. Once he makes something else his number one priority, he loses the masculine energy that naturally attracts feminine energy.
I am pretty sure I get this
Originally Posted By: mcol
Originally Posted By: chocolateeyes
You do understand, don't you, that if she HAS been unfaithful, that all infidels lie? She would NOT tell you the truth about it. Unless I'm missing something, what I'm hearing you say is, "I believe her because I believe her."
You suspected it; even her own family suspected it. You are the people who know her, and the situation, the best.
Choc...I am with you however, I need to explain that the W I married changed drastically when her dad died and I deployed. I think the whole family does not understand the new person that they are trying to deal with and as such they do not understand her. To that end, I believe that we were applying our understanding of the old W as opposed to the new W (very difficult to type exactly what changed) which is why we thought the affair. Communication is the key man.
She was afraid that she was going to lose me over here so she blocked me out of her emotional response. As such, I believe she started to live life without me because something inside her told her that she needed to prepare for the worst. Unfortunately, that side took over which led to her change of heart and the subsequent letters. I think she determined after losing her father that it would too painful to lose me as well. As such, I think she decided to try to get me out of her life so she would not have to face that pain again. I am praying that once I get back she will do a 180 on me because I am out of danger. She has always said that due to my occupation she has never been able to seriously consider a future with me because I might get killed. I will delve into this with her tonight to see her response...depending on her mood of course and how she is feeling about all the crap that went down in the last several days.
Yesterday we had a little snag. We were IMing and in an attempt to try to connect I was asking her lots of questions about her friends. I felt like it was prying so I asked her if she felt like I was snooping to which she said "it is starting to feel like it". I immediately recoiled and stopped watching her chat room and apologized. I thought my response was appropriate in saying that in my attempt to get to know her again I wanted to get to know her friends. Clearly, she has found something in them which is comforting and provides haven. If I can tap into that then it may help build trust and start repairing our R.
I contemplated hiring a PI and almost went through with it but at the end of the day I realized what I need to do is listen to my wife and believe her when she tells me things. This side of our R needs the most work. We need to hear each other and empathize with what has happened to the R we held dear before her father died. Then maybe we can go forward.
Originally Posted By: burgbud now that the EA/PA has been disproved, will you describe the current relationship between your W and the guy previously suspected to be the OM?
Burg...the relationship is the same, they call each other to talk about the things going on in their lives. I am not crazy about it but I am in, as I see it, to make demands of W. If I feel like she is sidetracking me in favor of him then I will likely address it.
That quote was intense but I have to tell you that she said the part of her heart that felt anything for me hard and cold. I have to find a way to spark that flame again. I think the first major step forward is coming home. I believe that she will not be able to reconnect with me until she knows that i am generally out of harm's way. Although driving on the interstates in America is more dangerous than being here, statistically.
My answers to anvils #1 and #2...with blinders still affixed.
Originally Posted By: chocolateyes
With all due respect, you are being incredibly naive. What you have done is listed all kinds of reasons and excuses why your wife might be DRAWN toward an affair, and/or away from her husband, but that still does not excuse her if she ACTED upon those reasons.
And I believe she has, and I believe so do you. You're just so wracked with some combination of guilt and also fear of losing her if you "spook" her, that you're willing to emasculate yourself and you're going all "needy/grabby" on her, which is NOT attractive to her, I can assure you (women, jump in here if I am wrong).
I am NOT trying to be a hard-ass here, but rather speak the truth in love. I do not know you, but I do know what I went thru, and what I've learned from it. My way may or may NOT work, there is no guarantee. But your way absolutely will not, and you'll be left with regrets for the rest of your life that you should have been more forceful.
This is what got me to start see the light that nothing had changed except for me and what I was willing to tolerate....so here we are. I will post new material and responses to questions in my next one.aaaaaaccckkkkk
mcol Me: 34 Deployed W:32 (EA started Oct 07) S:8 D:3 S:18 mos ILYBNILWY-12/14/07 Request for backdated separation 12/14/07 Top areas to work: 1) Communication 2) Repairing me, focusing on me
Ok...now on to new business...thanks for staying with me...
Originally Posted By: chocolateeyes
Quote:
How can I still bring her back from the brink but tell her she needs to stop turning to OM for emotional support and turn to me when we have a hard time getting through to each other on the phone?
You stop "going wobbly" every-other day, and you fight for your marriage and your family. You make her make a choice. Yeah, right now, if you made her make it today, it may not be you. But divorces take time, and that choice won't be made today. They take months, even years if they're contested, depending on what state you live in. During those months, you have a chance eto demonstrate to her what she would be losing, and to work on YOU.
Choc..you are spot on man. I was so upset at how I had backslid that I wrote four page letter to her today (not sent) that basically stated if she wanted out she could go and that I can not expend any further energy trying to save a grasp for someone who has written me off (abridged). Maybe I will post it...then again maybe not.
One of my bigger fears is walking off the plane and getting served, even though my lawyer says that these proceedings can be delayed. In the midst of all the other adjusting I am preparing to do (job, home, ex military) I do not want to have to throw in court appointments, attorney time and money.
Originally Posted By: chocolateeyes
Quote: She also told me that she felt like I was snooping because i was asking about her online friends. I was not trying to snoop but this was my way of trying to understand the new herand relate to some of the stuff she is going through.
Um, you ASKED her if she felt like you were snooping. You need to stop apologizing, placating, supplicating, and overall asking her permission to be YOU and to feel what YOU are feeling. You are human, a man who loves his wife and his family. A flawed man, surely (we all are), but you are responding to your wife's decision to become at LEAST emotionally involved with another man (and I suspect that it's also physical). Frankly, she's lucky you're still talking to her at all.
I have decided to go dark with her for the next couple of days. It is very hard because I will want to talk to the kids but I know she may answer the phone. I will simply ask to speak to them and not engage her in any convo at all. I am just too pissed right now to talk to her.
Originally Posted By: chocolateeyes
I would recommend having some new, hard evidence in hand before you confront her with that.
You had mentioned a keylogger but how do i get that installed on her laptop/desktop when I am over here? You can send me an email on mpcollins73@gmail.com for this one.
Originally Posted By: flygirl
Listen, this DBing is a friggin technique. All of us would like to believe that our sitches don't fit the mold. The mold, after all, sucks. Your R (and its current issues), unfortunately, isn't so unique that it doesn't fit the mold. To that end, read and pay attention to what people are telling you -- they are not emotionally connected to your sitch and can give you a lot of very credible, objective information.
Flygirl...thanks for staying with me and understanding my code. I am so thankful for the help of those on here who are objectively looking at this sitch...THANK YOU!!!! I am all ears and ready to bust this thing...and OM nose but that is another story or entry.
mcol Me: 34 Deployed W:32 (EA started Oct 07) S:8 D:3 S:18 mos ILYBNILWY-12/14/07 Request for backdated separation 12/14/07 Top areas to work: 1) Communication 2) Repairing me, focusing on me
Just stay focused, mcol, and you'll come out on top of this sitch. Use the "tools" that folks are giving you. And remember to take one moment at a time in the moments when one day ... or one hour ... seems to difficult.
Is the military attempting whatsoever to expedite your return home? When do you expect to return?
Is the military attempting whatsoever to expedite your return home? When do you expect to return?
I have not heard although I have asked a couple of times. We have two spots on the early flight and those seem to be filled already, not sure if my boss is still considering. He knows my needs though.
W said that if she had the resources she would move closer to job. Do you think she is considering moving in with OM who has a house close to her work? Would be reminiscent of another relationship where she moved in with guy to be close to job but away from family. Difference is that she did not have S,D,S then...I would be furious to say the least. [1uote=ILF] Is the military attempting whatsoever to expedite your return home? When do you expect to return? [/quote] S8 and I talk alot, D3 does not say much because she does not understand the whole phone thing yet and S18 months is oblivious. I will continue to make this my standard.
mcol Me: 34 Deployed W:32 (EA started Oct 07) S:8 D:3 S:18 mos ILYBNILWY-12/14/07 Request for backdated separation 12/14/07 Top areas to work: 1) Communication 2) Repairing me, focusing on me
No, I do not believe that she has intentions of moving in with OM. I think she knows that'd fly over like a farting whore in church. But to be closer to him? Absolutely, unfortunately.
I think, for now, your children's ties to your W's family and the fact that she *really needs* your MIL to help with the kids -- and maybe, to a lesser extent, a lease-deal at her apartment? -- is going to keep her planted right where she is.
To your knowledge, have your children met/spent time with OM?
Also, your W is saying that "if she had the resources." The fact is: Your W is apparently about as independent and bull-headed as they come and believes that where there's a will, there's a way. If she *truly* wanted to be there, we both know that she already would be.
Don't project, bro. This M *can* be turned around. It just takes *a lot* of time and patience, especially considering where you are while having to deal with this.
Not that I am aware of. I know that the W and OM went christmas shopping together and they purchased a BB Gun for S8. Why W brother, who likes to hunt, could hot have done that is beyond me.
Originally Posted By: p&db
considering where you are while having to deal with this.
Yeah..that is what sucks...I constantly struggle with the out of sight out of mind complex projecting that it gives her the freedom she wants to do whatever.
Darkness day 1 successful. Lets see if I can do a day 2. I am anticipating another letter from W with the big D mentioned. Although, I did not notice that she paid the power bill for our house online. After I moved money she said she was not going to do anything else with our joint account (which has all the money for paying the bills). Wonder if she is having a de-thawing of heart in that area?
Ok...day 2 here I come. Got to talk to my dad yesterday, they have been so great through this whole thing. In fact almost everyone I have talked to seems to believe that this is relatively one sided.
Time to shower...glad I worked out...I have lost a combined 8 pounds in three weeks adn I am sure stress has quite a bit to do with it.
mcol Me: 34 Deployed W:32 (EA started Oct 07) S:8 D:3 S:18 mos ILYBNILWY-12/14/07 Request for backdated separation 12/14/07 Top areas to work: 1) Communication 2) Repairing me, focusing on me
Great going on Dark Day No. 1. Why do you anticipate another letter from your W with the word "D" involved?
P.S. Out-of-sight-out-of-mind has a totally different meaning -- and result -- when you're trying to save your M. The benefit in such a scenario is actually yours ... not hers. It doesn't seem logical. But it's true.
