It's been so long since I did a thread, I'm not going to bother linking back to one of my old ones, so I'm just going to rehash everything here. Please bear with me. I write really slowly, so this will probably come out in dribs and drabs over time.
I'm 47, W 48, married 23 years, two daughters aged 15 and almost 10. I work full time, wife is a SAHM. We met in college, dated off and on for ~6 years before we married.
Our sex life was never quite what you would call prolific, although for a while, before we were married, we both enjoyed it, and it was really a lot of fun. It started grinding down, though before we got married, and stopped altogether soon afterward. We both were/are inexperienced at sex, and relationships for that matter. I tended to internalize my shame and resentment. I used to blame myself for making her lose interest, because at the time we got married, I was a totally irresponsible person. I was a pot addict (please, no snickering), had flunked out of college twice, couldn't hold down a decent job. I even lied to my wife about graduating from college. She found out I hadn't gotten my degree from a co-worker at a Xmas party two years after we got married.
I was never the most confident person in the world either, with women especially. I was shy and ill at ease with people (one of the main reasons I got hooked on pot), and never felt like I was physically attractive. I don't have what you would call classic good looks, although I do have some nice traits (Kirk Douglas would envy my chin). I didn't really have a clue as to the kind of personality traits that are important, and that I was actually strong in some of these areas. I was instantly attracted to my wife - lust at first site - and she was attracted to me too. But I could never figure out what attracted her to me. I didn't really feel worthy of her in the first place, so when sex dried up I wasn't too surprised.
So, early in our marriage I really felt like I didn't deserve the sex and affection that I craved. I handled rejection poorly. I would get mad, then withdraw, then take care of my own needs with porn and masturbation. Rejection was very consistent, so I stopped asking.
In the meantime, I started getting my act together. I finally landed a good job, finished my degree part time, was able to support myself and my wife so we could start planning a family, and became the kind of competent guy who could take care of business and be proud of his accomplishments. This had no effect on our sex life. The only sex we have had is to conceive our two children. The weird thing is, when we had conception sex, it was really quite good. We would get busy 4-5 times per month and it was usually enjoyable for both of us. So, it's really weird. My wife doesn't "get horny", and she has come to believe that she shouldn't bother to have sex if she doesn't feel aroused first. Yet she doesn't feel close enough to me physically to want to engage in any physically affectionate behavior that might lead to arousal. She also seems to have a strong aversion to the idea of having sex. Some of that is personal, some relational. More on that later.
I think I've learned a lot since those bad old days and have grown personally. These have not translated into growth of the marriage, though. I will write another post later to fill in more details.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
The weird thing is, when we had conception sex, it was really quite good. I remember trying to get PG. That was some good sex! Truely "baby batter" time.
Our otherearly sex was good, but not as good. Must be some reason a W wants to get knocked up and how much interest and effort she puts into the act.
I think some women think the hotter they get, the more likely she will become PG. Some W and medical people think the W having an "O" after her H cums, leads to faster baby making. I buy that.
The weird thing is, when we had conception sex, it was really quite good. I remember trying to get PG. That was some good sex! Truely "baby batter" time.
Thanks for checking in, Lil and Lou.
Yes, Lou, it was good, and I tend to get resentful when I look back on that period. I get thoughts of "You were able to Just Do It when there was something in it that was really important to you, i.e., making babies. But when it is important to me, you couldn't be bothered." OTOH, I think it points to one of the emotional issues that my wife has with sex. It might have been a lot easier for her to give herself permission to "do the dirty deed" when we were making babies. If she has deep seated, unconscious inhibitions against sex, if she experiences vague feelings that being sexual is wrong, then the drive to have babies probably overcame those feelings easily.
One time when I brought up the subject of trying to rekindle a SL, she asked me "Do you want to have sex with me even though I don't want it?" it really stopped me. No, I don't want duty sex. And the look in her eyes told me that there is real terror for her in the very idea of me having sex with her. Like I would be raping her.
Lots of work to do. We'll see.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
I spent a lot of energy during the middle part of my marriage becoming a good draft animal: working hard, getting and keeping decent jobs, improving skills and bettering my education, being a good father, what Mojo would label as classic St. Bernard. I didn't really know what I could do to make myself attractive, but I at least wanted to make myself useful and provide my wife with the things she said she always wanted: a home, children, the chance to raise them full time.
Before we had children, we were at least good friends, and would go out and have fun. But when we had the girls, our marriage really stopped having anything to do with W and me as a couple. W poured all of her energy into child rearing. We didn't go out anymore because W couldn't bring herself to leave the kids with a sitter. My wife is a worrier. When the kids aren't with her, even to this day, she worries about them constantly. It's hard to go out and have fun with someone who isn't really there.
Of course my resentment grew. I started getting snippy, withdrawn, critical. It would happen at weird times. I would be cutting the lawn and the mindless tedium left my mind wandering. Then I would start thinking about how many years it had been since we last had sex. Then I would be done with the lawn and walk into the house like an ogre.
Well, I started to not like myself very much. I found the SSM book a couple of years ago, and tried to engage my wife in efforts to improve our marriage. She grudgingly agreed to marriage counseling, but the councilor was not good. All talk, no action. We broke it off after a few months because W didn't want to leave her invalid mother home alone. (MIL lived with us the past 4 years, and passed away last month. Another story.) Of course, I think I've read about 20 relationship books, which is about 20 more than my wife has read.
I changed tack and decided to GAL and clean up some of my own issues. I went into individual counseling, trying to deal with my anger and resentment. I started exercising regularly, took up skating to have something fun to do with D9, started working toward my professional engineer license (just found out I passed the exam - Yeeay!) I also have taken up meditation and have been studying Buddhism pretty seriously.
Everything I have learned about myself and my wife has led me to think that I need to let go. I stopped reading relationship books and started reading divorce books. I didn't want to make any kind of decision about the future as long as my wife had to spend all of her time and energy taking care of her old mother.
Recently, after her mother died, my wife started talking about our long term future as a married couple. Another conversation regarding a financial move prompted me to level with her. I really did not want to make a decision now, not when there is still grief in the house, but I did feel the need to come clean with my wife.
Sunday I told her that I was seriously thinking of divorcing her. She told me that she wanted to try counseling again. Of course she wants me to find the councilor.
It's getting late. More some other time.
SM
Last edited by SolidMechanic; 01/08/0805:04 AM.
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Congrats on the professional engineer license! Did they give you one of those cool hats, too?
Sorry to hear about the divorce talk. I'm sure that you've given it lots of thought (and it looks like more thought is in the works). And, as you probably know, there is never a convenient time to talk about divorce. Kudos to you for having the strength to talk with her about it at this difficult time.
Congrats on the professional engineer license! Did they give you one of those cool hats, too?
Don't have the license yet, have to send in the application and have 5 other engineers vouch for my experience. Then I get a cool stamp and they teach me the secret handshake. No hat, but maybe an upgraded pocket protector.
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Sorry to hear about the divorce talk. I'm sure that you've given it lots of thought (and it looks like more thought is in the works). And, as you probably know, there is never a convenient time to talk about divorce. Kudos to you for having the strength to talk with her about it at this difficult time.
I don't know if it was strength. We've been talking about long term financial decisions in the past couple weeks, and W would make the joking comment "Well, we could do it this way, but you better not divorce me." We've been using this type of gallows humor on each other for years, but this time it really hit home. I really felt like the things I was contemplating, and not telling her about, were a form of dishonesty.
Time to look for marriage counselors, but I might also look for sex therapists. Also, I'm going to get my wife more involved in the process of selecting and contacting one. I came out of our discussion feeling I was the only one holding the rope, yet again. She will not lead. That's OK. But I need her to be a part of the process and take ownership over this problem. It's not just my problem.
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I bow to the Buddha within you.
Hairdog
The Buddha within me? Hmm, that might explain my weight problems.
SM
"If we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment." Henry David Thoreau
Cool hats? I didn't get no stinkin' hat when I got me P.E. In fact, all I got was a number and the right to get an official stamp made. Oh, that and the privilige of paying the state $250 every other year so I can keep my P.E. license. Nevertheless, it is an accomplishment to be proud of (and necessary to offer engineering services to other than your employer). For me, the hardest part was finding the 5 other P.E.s for the recommendations. Not many P.E.s in my line of work (electronics).
W would make the joking comment "Well, we could do it this way, but you better not divorce me." We've been using this type of gallows humor on each other for years,
I've done this in a couple of relationships, and finally I figured out that it was a bad thing and don't do it any more and put a stop to it when when the other person does it.
What I figured out was that this kind of humor (when there's a bit of truth to it) is like looking at this thing that the two of you have created-- this R-- and joking about whether you are going to feed it or let it die of neglect. I don't have any kids, but it seems to me almost as if there were a baby lying there and the H and W are saying, "Well we could feed her," and the other jokes, "Naw, let's just see how long she lives if we stop feeding her." "Well, we could save time and just drown her right now!" [laugh, laugh, laugh]
When I looked at it this way, I was horrified. The R is a living thing that the two people bring into being, and joking about whether you keep it alive or let it die-- yuck!!
Of course in a very solid, loving marriage, the occasional D joke is a different matter. But in a rocky M or one where D is a real possibility, this kind of joking is cruel and destructive IMHO.
ETA: congrats on becoming an engineer! Do you get to blow the whistle when the train comes to the crossing-- that's got to be the COOLEST part!
Truely "baby batter" time. 
