Don't Push!!! A Newbies MUST Read.

[missmyfriend]

RCR, I usually agree with you but I think that the definition of "courage" is being modified to mean something entirely different.

Courage = mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty.

I see the departure as being bereft of any moral compass. They left children behind, not to protect the family but to seek out their own selfish desires. Someone who is courageous seeks help and will have the courage to share with people close to them to get help instead of fleeing and hiding in their own little world. I see no courage in leaving a marriage.

It may help those "left behind" to see something "noble" in the decision of their loved one to leave but I find that to be as much a concern as someone who is unforgiving toward the spouse who has left.

I respect both your opinion and PB's but I disagree that it is courage. It completely contradicts people who show courage which is the willingness to risk their own lives for others.

[a new 2moro]

LMG, several have told you how to get out of this w/ the least amount of damage to your situation, but here you are not following the wisdom of those who trod before you esp on this thread. Stop it already sweets...he doesnt want to... go leave it at that. find something else to do ...live your life like you have no H

[poohbear]

MMF...

I looked up another definition of courage from another source. It defines courage as "A man who attempts to fart when he knows he has diarrhea". Sometimes feelings defy definitions. My W, by your own definition, was able to summon mental strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear and difficulty. We see it as running away. They see it as running towards something better. Both parties could be right or wrong.

When I say I admired her courage, I was looking at it from her perspective. It's also what helped me look inside myself. I had to realize that I did have a part in her unhappiness. What was it about me that made her unhappy? Don't get me wrong, I didn't blame myself totally for her leaving, but I did realize that I contributed.

In my case, there was no OM. I really believe it was a MLC. in spite of her "altered" state, she remained a significant part of the kids lives. We shared custody, and pretty much divided things down the middle as far as the kids were concerned. So, in her case, there was some level of "sanity".

If there had been an OM, then I wouldn't necessarily have the same opinion I do now. I would then see it as cowardice. So maybe our interpretations of courage vary based on our situation.

MMF, I'm not telling anyone to admire their spouses for leaving them. I was just putting myself in my W's shoes for a moment. I think that as an LBS, we need to step outside of ourselves and look at things from another perspective. The view is amazing from the outside.

[theotherhalf]

NC DOES NOT SEND THE WAS FARTHER AWAY...YES THEY MAY GO DEEPER IN THE TUNNEL W/OP...THAT NEWBIES IS PART OF THE JOURNEY. IT IS A PART OF THE CRISIS THEY MUST GO THRU

thanks for this an2m, someone told me yesterday that the NC will hurt the R. It's all so scary and confusing.

TOH

[newnamenewlife]

H just emailed me to say he would love to see a movie and let's do it, he'll call his mom. I'm sure the prospect of trying to explain to his mother why we would not want to go out was just too complicated--but I am choosing to take this at face value. He wants to see a movie with me. Not reading too much into it, not getting excited or anything, just going to enjoy the evening and play it very cool. Now, must find a movie that is not a love story...

[Rollercoasterider]

courage...is the willingness to risk their own lives for others.

That is an apsect of some courageous acts, but it seems more directly a trait of sacrifice.

1. the quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty, danger, pain, etc., without fear; bravery.
2. Obsolete. the heart as the source of emotion.
3. have the courage of one's convictions, to act in accordance with one's beliefs, esp. in spite of criticism.

Often there are many definitions and connotations for a word. The most accurate perhaps varies with how each person uses and defines the word.

Though the first portion of #1 above seems on track, I completely disagree that courage refers to a person who is without fear.
If there is no fear there is also no need for courage. I think that courage is to act in spite of fear.

Does it not take courage to face Solomon and answer his question?
Is there a lesser of two evils?

Sure, we are LBS's, so we may feel that the lesser evil would be to stay at home, unhappy, but married. Oh, that's right, we don't WANT our spouses unhappy, we want them to TRY.

I see the departure as being bereft of any moral compass.

Moral compass calibrated by whom?
Morality differs across cultures and times.

Someone who is courageous seeks help and will have the courage to share with people close to them to get help instead of fleeing and hiding in their own little world.

What then when help is best found within their own little world?

And yet there is pressure to seek help externally. That would be acting in spite of crticism--and sometimesit is even acting against the person's own beliefs. Or how they were raised ot believe.

Midlife CRISIS is Dis-Ease, but not disease. It is not legal insanity. But lets take another example then. What of the insane? We accept that there are forces working within them that are at least momentarily greater than forces which they would adhere to in normal circumstances.Are we unable to accept the same for those who are not legally insane.

Oh, Sweetheart was pretty nuts at times. He was out of control, manic. His eyes were wild. Then he slept and woke different. He compartmentalized and continued to work. Others didn't see the extremese I witnessed. My Dad hear through the phone once and it dumbfounded him. Sweetheart's behaviour was not merely out of character. Any ADULT behaving in that manner would have been considered nuts--except that he did it only in my presence. Others noticed changes, but only got to see the full Monster.

He acted on impulse and then cycled back, trying to correct. Acting on impulse may not be courageous, perhaps there is courage in the Pockets.

And not everyone is as severely manic. For some MLCers it is a quiet desperation. And I believe it may become such for others--because it was also that for Sweetheart in other moods.

They left children behind, not to protect the family but to seek out their own selfish desires.

There is a difference between Self-Centered and Selfish. To be centered in one's Self is to be balanced, a state of health.

To be selfish goes beyond concern for one's self. It is concern for one's Self at the expense of others--opposing sacrifice.
What an irony that many MLCers are Selfish and yet also have a martyr complex.

We encourage Self-Focus in LBSs--Self-Centered. For some perhaps the process of self-centereing involves first becoming Selfish.
After years of Accommodating there is a backswing.

For some to advance to the next phase of life a separation is needed--NEEDED. But our society in some ways forwns upon this. We cannot separate and reconcile again. We must completley obliterate what once was to move forward. We are aloowed to start new--new wife, family...divorce is accepted. But there is not a place for separation without divorce?

Since there is not such a place, a person may feel the only alternative is to go all the way. Turning back is certain psychological death--returning to Acommodation. Advancing into the transtional phase is also frightening. Those in Crisis seek to Avoid. For those avoiding the path is different than those Accepting. But there is still a path that propels them inward. It cannot be stopped. The Crisis person doesn't know where they are being led and yet they leap anyway--blind fools rushing in.


I wonder how our culture would handle midlife and other transitions had we specific rites of passage where we accepted these as rebirths.
Would midlife be more managable if we ritualized the transition. If there were a separation phase for spouses. Im not including an affair in this...maybe if there were rituals with the trransition, there fewer would expereince it as crisis--thus alleviating the need for the OW band aid.

HUGS,
RCR

[a new 2moro]

He compartmentalized

IM SO GLAD TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE WHO DID THIS...MY H HAD AREAS OF HIS LIFE LIKE THIS....NO ONE COMPARTMENT WAS ALLOWED TO OVERLAP...HE HAD JOB/OW/ME/THE D....WEIRD

[Virtually_Handsome]

He compartmentalized

IM SO GLAD TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE WHO DID THIS...MY H HAD AREAS OF HIS LIFE LIKE THIS....NO ONE COMPARTMENT WAS ALLOWED TO OVERLAP...HE HAD JOB/OW/ME/THE D....WEIRD

I think a lot of men (even non MLCers) compatmentalize. I know I do. It drives W crazy. But we really don't connect things across areas of our lives. I cannot explain it, and I don't know why, but it is a very real thing. It is almost like there is a brain change-out when I go to work, or back home. Then there's hobby time, or kid time, etc. It is a real thing. And it isn't just MLC. Though it might be even more exaggerated in MLC.

[grid, lost]

(I gotta say, he has gotten amazingly good at dodging questions...)

Lovemyguy,
You have a somewhat same MLCr as I. Mine gone since10/2006 because we have to talk to each other daily, business to run. We do. That said, H will always, to this day, answer to question, I don't know, can't answer. Will not make a decision to save his life. Accept and let it go, you will feel a lot better. Hard I know, been there. You are trying to carry 5 cinder blocks up side of mountain.

Are we going to a movie Sat night? Who knows? Hopefully I'll find out from someone.

Just drop it. honest let it go, you are with out realizing playing a power game with H. Go to movie by yourself. Yes, you can do this. Put on a baseball cap if you want to hide and go to movie. H will be so shocked. I do this sorta stuff and never tell H, I know he wonders and wonders, stays surprised. You can do , yes you can.

I'm on a yo-yo too. One minute I'm convinced DB is the only way to go and I must adhere to it at all costs, but then suddenly I get thrown off course and think that it would be better for H & I to spend time together (hence the movie idea) than not to. Sometimes we really do reconnect when we hang out together--and that's why I issue these invitations sometimes.

[/quote] STay away from H, if you have some good times together then stay away and let H miss those times. GAL and he see a new you and missing out. Honest I am not critizing you just trying to offer what others told me and have found is working. This is a long painful yo-yo, thus we Must learn to GAL.
IMHO
grid, lost

[kissak]

He compartmentalized

IM SO GLAD TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE WHO DID THIS...MY H HAD AREAS OF HIS LIFE LIKE THIS....NO ONE COMPARTMENT WAS ALLOWED TO OVERLAP...HE HAD JOB/OW/ME/THE D....WEIRD

I think a lot of men (even non MLCers) compatmentalize. I know I do. It drives W crazy. But we really don't connect things across areas of our lives. I cannot explain it, and I don't know why, but it is a very real thing. It is almost like there is a brain change-out when I go to work, or back home. Then there's hobby time, or kid time, etc. It is a real thing. And it isn't just MLC. Though it might be even more exaggerated in MLC.

Someone once told me to think of a man's brain like a honeycomb...everything has its compartment. They think about one thing at a time...

A womans brain is like a bowl of spagetti....One thought leads to another and another and another and so on...