Don't Push!!! A Newbies MUST Read.

[sleeper]

Hi, lovemyguy,

If you are both wearing rings, H is still living at home and you are going to MC you have a lot going for you. No guarantees, but a lot of positives. I wouldn't even consider taking my ring off if I were you until he does. Even then you are going to have to think about what you are doing. To do so before may look like you are giving him permission/giving up.

For some in mlc our breathing is interpreted by them as pressure. I haven't done anything overt that might be interpreted as pressure since Oct (I jokingly asked for a kiss, wish I hadn't). Just before Christmas W angrily commented, "just because you've changed doesn't mean you can just come back to the marriage." The mere existance of my improved self (not drinking, lost weight, buffed up, "phenomenal father", Mr. fix it on the spot) is now seen by mlc W as pressure. Good news; she's noticed. Bad news; it pressure. What's a divorce buster to do?

Jack is right on about changes. Three months into this W commented she was waiting for the "old" me to return, didn't believe changes. They must be maintained for a long time to be believed. Now she obvioulsy sees changes are real, but responds to them as pressure to return to the marriage.

You have to feel your way through this.

Like a blind man in a razor blade factory.

[mymonkeybug]

LMG-

Yes there is quite a bit of reference to God and the Bible in the Conway books and I myself am not everly religious. However I wouls still rec. the books because they have a TON of useful info. You can do as I do and skip over the religious parts. The content really is fabulous and the will help anyone in this situation.

[Grace_O]

sleeper,

LOL "Like a blind man in a razor factory." That was great!

Making changes in ourselves to be the people we want to be, that's the ticket. It's hard in the beginning b/c we mesh who we think we want to be within the context of our M's. Time and introspection (meditation if you practive it) all help. You have to have am mind that isn't racing 1000 miles a sec in order to do this. I know I can sound like a broken record with doing something physical, but it does help. For me, better than anything else i've found.

[newnamenewlife]

But what if the change you want to make requires moving on and considering the idea of finding another man in your life--one who actually loves you??

[sleeper]

Hey Guys, I just realized something,

That pressure they feel from us even when we're doing nothing overt to cause that response from them is probably internal pressure they are putting on themselves because they know we have changed and they kn ow what they should doing (return to the marriage). Like everything else they blame (project) that onto us, thus we are the source of the pressure they are feeling, and they verbalize that to us. Did I lose anyone?

My counselor believes there is a lot of conscious vs. subconscious stuff going on within my W (he's known her for years) and believes comments she's made indicate her subconscious knows how this will all turn out (us remarried). It's like there is a battle for their psyche (or soul) taking place resulting in the split personality or contradictions we see in what they say and do. You can translate this to id vs. super ego if you like that example better. I think the ego is in a coma at this point.

Grace O,

You're dead on about the meditation. I go to the gym every other day and basically beat myself into exaustion. I've noticed all the people have the same look on their face, their world tuned out because their physical activity requires every bit of their strength and mental concentration. many have commented that it's like meditation because you have to focus on the weightlifting totally. Isn't that what you do when you meditate? Find a point of focus and tune the world out?

Lovemyguy,

I hear you and that is a personal choice. I went out for the first time in over a year. Combo of 1 yr seperation anniversary and W reiterating her desire for divorce. It didn't hurt that two women invited me to the same casual get together. I'm now ready to go out more, it's a definate ego boost, practice for post D life and who knows, WAW may notice the attitude change cause my attitude is shure changing

[mymonkeybug]

That thought makes sense. For instance my S8 is having a horrible time with daddy walking out and expresses feelings of hatred and not wanting to talk to daddy, etc...When I tell H all this he gets an attitude with me and wants to know why S8 won't tell him this directly. He does this almost in an accusitory fashion as though he feels I am making it up or exagerating to try and guilt him into coming home. I actually am not doing that but I know him well enough after being together 19 years to feel certain that he is thinking that and therefore inevitably putting the pressure on himself but blaming me for it. So it almost seems like no matter what we the LBS's do we are in a no win situation. At least it feels and seems that way sometimes. S told H a week ago that mommy hopes you will come home and H's response to S was, "I am never coming home and mommy just doesn't get it!" How dare he say something that hurtful to his own S?!?!?! But this is also the man that told S 2 weeks ago that he is to not let mommy see him upset or sad about this. To which I told H basically that he will not ever tell S to hide his feelings and that I refuse to let son grow up like he did and think that keeping it all in is OK, expressing your feelings is a good thing because it keeps you from bottling them up and then imploding like WAH did and walking out on family after 19 years due to his inability to communicate. Yep, see that is why I have posted in another section of the forum about how I have fallen off the DB wagon this week. I have been saying and doing all the things you are NOT to be doing in effective DB'ing.

[Grace_O]

mmb,

I suppose you could say that the big 180 I've done is all of this mess is my attitude esp about what we tell our D's and how we handle what's going on with them. I'm dancing on a razor blade at the moment as we've discussed what to tell D's re his moving, but he has not wanted to sit them down to do it yet. Bottom line, it is not helpful to kids to know that one of their parnets (pick your WAS) is a rascal. With our D's if there is an issue I encourage them (sometimes in fromt of H) to talk to him. D12 gets angry and tends to take it out on me, when this is going on, I ask if he has any suggestions for how to help her. I ask his counsel. More than I'd like, I get "I don't know". I thank him for listening and thinking about it and go on my way.

It's really tough and it took me awhile to get from "you have to cowboy up to being the one that's leaving and not willing to try" to "sometimes in a marriage b/c of frustration and unhappiness a break is needed to give some space so the best decisions for the future of the family can be made. No one is to blame." What has it gained me? An ally in raising our D's.

Whatever will work best for the kids and you is worth really thinking about.

[Grace_O]

lmg,

Do you really think you're ready to move on to another man?

[Punktmann]

Grace_O,

It's really tough and it took me awhile to get from "you have to cowboy up to being the one that's leaving and not willing to try" to "sometimes in a marriage b/c of frustration and unhappiness a break is needed to give some space so the best decisions for the future of the family can be made. No one is to blame." What has it gained me? An ally in raising our D's.

Whatever will work best for the kids and you is worth really thinking about.


This IS incredibly hard.

I am struggling with htis as well.

Talk about being the bigger person.

What strength and grace.

[mymonkeybug]

Grace-

It is very tough to not blame H right now for causing all this. I know our marriage was not perfect, hell none are, but in this case I really never saw anything coming. H says he was good at acting and simply couldn't keep doing it anymore when I asked him where this all was coming from. He I have realized now looking back on our marriage was never a communicator and hence my shock when he left. I have explained to him that since he has left I have done some soul searching and realize where my faults lie and admit that they could have very well led him to the choice he made of walking out but that I will never know for sure unless you help me H by talking to me and he of course says he doesn't know anything other than he is happier away.

So the kids, well they know daddy doesn't love mommy and that is why he decided to leave. Confusing to me because how do you leave claiming the ILYBNILWY line when just days before you literally made passionate love to your wife??? Anyway, the kids are damaged goods right now and I try to boost their spirits and help them talk about this and work through it and when I feel I am at an end I call H and ask his opinion and help and I get the let me talk to S8 deal and he tells him not to treat mommy and sister this way and if you need to be angry or yell at someone call me because I did this and it is all my fault, blame me for your feelings. I don't say anything negative about H to the kids and reassure them always that he is daddy and still loves them very much and that this is a problem between mommy and daddy but S8 more so than D5 is destroyed by this all and is right now feeling the hatred and resentment towards daddy that he is. And these feelings are something I don't feel should be hidden from H. He needs to know the destruction his choice to WALK OUT has caused with regards to the kids. He of course feels I believe that I am making it up since S8 won't talk to him or that I am preventing S8 from talking to him. I know H well enough to assume to know what he is thinking right now.

I know H will never be able to heal and come out of this MLC/depression if I don't stop with all this but when it comes to these issues involving the kids I simply can't do it alone and need his help. He walked out of the family situation but will never be able to be completely free of his daddy duties and regardless of his need for seclusion and soul searching these kids are devestated and I need his assistance in helping them get through this. It would be more wrong of me I believe to not include him in all this and then in 5 years or 10 years have S or D blow up then at daddy when they really hate him and despise him and him be hurt and angered that he didn't know this sooner.