Help!!! My wife says she is not happy and wants out. I've been applying the no pressure technique.... being so impressed with Divorce Remedy I asked her if she would read the first 2 chapters "divorce trap" before she sought an attorney or theripist. She asked to read it tonight, to which I asked does that mean you want to get an attorney or therpist?... to which she replied I don't know! Should I have not asked her to read it??????? I still have time to tell her no I don't want you to read it....!!! What should I do.
I am a WAW who wants her husband back. I have had some success with DBing and I am hoping to get and give support from and to other WAW's in the same sitch.
Posts Role Reversal(original) WAW now LBS part I & II WAW now LBS part III(current) T: 9 yrs M: 8 yrs WAW: Sep 06-Jul 07 LBS: Sep 07-pres.
I don't have the book in front of my right now, but it the last resort technique. I've actually been doing it for 3 weeks now. I got similar information from another book. I told her last night that I may have made a mistake in asking her to read it. I didn't want to come off as pushing her. I was real supprised when she said "well, if it is going to hurt us" then maybe I shouldn't read it. This implied to me that maybe she is having a change of heart. She still hasn't said let's work it out but she said since she has been taking an anti-depressant she is feeling better and she knows it is not the "best" thing for the kids to go through.... I'm hoping!!!!! What I think has helped more than the anti-depressant are the following: 1. Help around the house ( with Joy ) 2. Don't ask "ANY" questions!!! 3. See myself having to find someone else. Get in shape, take care of myself. 4. Have some dignity and quit asking how she feels, or "are we going to make it". Just shut up with questions. 5. Let her do whatever she wants, go with friends etc. etc. 6. "ALWAYS AGREE WITH HER 100% " even if I don't agree... find the 10% that is right and agree with that. This has been hard but the more I do it the more she talks to me. 7. Don't touch her in any way shape or form. ( again hard to do..i've brushed up against her but that is it).
I'm cautiously optimistic. I wanted her to read the first couple of chapters especially "The Divorce Trap". I told her that if she was more the 50% wanting to leave or getting a d attorney or theripist... maybe reading this would help...... Does anyone else have any suggestions... I just think she needs to read this before making that decision. But I don't want to screw things up.
Do NOT have her read the book. It is your guide as to what to do. You may very well be sabotaging your future efforts of DBing. She may think that everything you do from there on out is from the book and not from your heart. I say keep the book to yourself and in a place where she won't find it.
Telling a WAW to read a book is the same as telling her she is the problem. I doubt you are willing to do that. If you must suggest a book to her try Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus. There is some good info that help you two communicate. But keep the DB books for yourself.
-B
Me-45 W-34 T-5 M-3 1/2 s-10 s-12 ILYBNILWY 12/26/07 Sleeping away from home at friend's house(because she says she can't get any sleep otherwise) 1/14/08 1/25/08 We tell kids she is moving out
My situation: Married for 10 yrs. 3 kids- 14, 8 & 6. Wife tries to reach out numerous times in early 07- i was ignorant, did not listen. May 07- she told me she does not lv me anymore. I did cartwheels until Jan 1, 2008. Then we separated but still live in same house for financial reasons. Almost immediately she now has divorced guy friend- they talk every night, go out, etc. my life changed when i read "the book." wife swears she not physical- but it does not matter she's having at least having an emotional affair. now pushing for divorve- feb. 11th- we were only separated for a month. i think the push is so they can start getting physical.
i am spending my time w/kids. taking them to church & giving them lots of attention. since housing market is in slump and we have alot of debt- wife and i are going to live together to pay bills so when house sells we can walk away with cash. i love her now more than ever and understand why she's running away full speed. we are good friends though and do not fight.
wifes family does not know of her late night chats or meetings w/the other guy. i am certain that over time- 1 or two years her relationship will fail (a least i hope). I am very ready to toss in towel but know deep down inside- things would be different if this other guy (a longtime friend of family whose got money) wasn't in picture. but i cannot compete because she in a fantasy world.
I am very concerned about kids welfare and the speed at which she is moving. she certainly does not hide her "friendship" to our kids and i know their confused. anybody got any advice????
I feel your pain. It is hard to see the one you love run the other way.
All I know is that by me trying to focus on becoming the kind of person I want to be has helped. Additionally, realizing that at least in my opinion, it says a lot about a person that wants to leave a marriage with children and not even consider working it out. I can understand if I where beating, cheating or some other distructive thing, however, that is not the case. Even in those circumstances it can be fixed. After all I made the commitment "till death do we part". The DR book has helped me turn things around a little..... In all circumstances I reveal that I'm content, happy and enjoying life more than ever, even when my heart is breaking. I don't ask where she is going, what she is doing, I work, help keep the house clean, love on my kids and read books like DR.
Lastly, the more I have thought about it, if my wife where to leave, I would have zero respect for Her. It would be similar to a stranger coming up to my kids and hurting them. Having said, that, I will still walk in love, be nice, not turn the children agaisnt Her and do my best to walk in forgiveness and free from bitterness. I can't help believe that there are women out there that have been walked out on or are lonely and would love to have at least a friendship with the changed man that I am. I'm not being prideful, just acknowledging that just because I'm being rejected doesn't mean my life is over. God is able to do exceedingly and abundant far more than I can ask or think, so if my wife would be willing to accept that and work with me, I truly believe our best years are to come.
Again, keep your head up, read DR and focus on making changes to yourself. The best thing you can do is to believe in yourself, and know, you are not the only one being rejected. If you can have a clear conscience that you have done everything within your power to make it work that is all you can do.
Sorry for rambeling. Love does not count up the hurtful things a wife is doing, it doesn't ask the wife to do what it wants, it believes in all things, hopes in all things and it "NEVER" fails.
So that tells me if you and I walk in LOVE.. we win or succeed.
So here is my new dilemma. What to do for V-Day? His sister and mom will be in town and I planned to get something for everyone.
Also, having to move out put me in a terrible financial sitch. At this point I am basically living off credit cards and between the two of us we have mostly depleted the large savings we had when returning to the states 2yrs ago (a significant part of that was buying a house). My motive for moving back to the house is in large part for financial reasons. Should I breach the subject with him? Since he has agreed to the intensive I don't want to put too much pressure on him.
Posts Role Reversal(original) WAW now LBS part I & II WAW now LBS part III(current) T: 9 yrs M: 8 yrs WAW: Sep 06-Jul 07 LBS: Sep 07-pres.
Bitty, Take a look at my original post, sounds very similar to yours. Hang in there if you want the M to work, the relationship with the BF will fade if you hang in there and support her no matter what!!!! Best of Luck!!!
Me 40, live in WAW H 39 married 9 yrs seperated 18 months, apart 7 months D 4, 16 S 6, 19
I have 15 yr step son (i met w/he was 3), an 8 yr old daughter & 5 yr old son. my wife started developing a "friendship" w/OM this past summer. he has ATV's, money, etc, so when W would visit w/kids, kids would play & she would chat w/him. Our offical breakup was 1/1/08. a week thereafter she start talking to OM every night on cell phone. now twice a week she sleeps at his place- they are getting very close. she claims she hasn't slept w/him yet but surely will soon. anyway we filed for divorce 2/11/08. we are good friends. we are both committed to not messing kids lives up. we will be keeping house for at least 16 more mths... the divorce will not be finalized until the house sells. just lay dorment in court. she will still have all my benefits from work and we will continue to use both our incomes to pay bills. i am doing this so my children aren't faced w/a shitty place to live. since our split i take kids to church and play w/them constantly. i have a very close relationship w/my daughter whose really having issues with this. i believe all kids back me 100%. now for your take....
i am finding things to do to keep myself occupied. working out constantly and visiting friends. W is already trying to form relationship w/OM and kids. OM has 14yr old son (whose friends w/my 15 yr old son), 16 yr old daughter and was previously divorced- almost lost his business to last wife. he has been single for 5 years. this weekend i am going to philly for three nights. W is taking kids over to OM's 16 yr old daughter birthday party! since you were a WAW, do you think this relationship with OM will implode? wife and i were together for 13yrs, and married 10. i love her more than ever but do not believe i will ever take her back- but i will be best friends for kids and always support her. please tell me your thoughts. by the way, the OM (his brother is married to W sisters best friend) I know W's younger sister has issues with how fast W is moving w/this. john
I have been hoping that there would be a forum for WAS. Maybe it will take time for them to find this.
In the meantime, it doesn't need to be taken over by the LBS. I think they need to be gently reminded that this is for encouragement and advice for the WAS, if I understood the moderator correctly.
I know when I first came on board that I didn't know where to go or what to do, so it takes time to figure it out....and I'm still working on it...lol.
I didn't completely walk away....but one of my threads was called An Almost WAW....and still am in my heart. So, I think I could qualify for this forum as support to others (I hope). Although my thread is in Piecing now. If I'm wrong about this, then let me know.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I suppose I am harping on this, but I notice in the forum of "I'm Thinking About Leaving"......have you all noticed that most of them do not stay on the board? I think it is b/c of the negative feed back they get. So, again, let's please be careful how we talk to the ones that are thinking about leaving or these that have already walked away.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yes sandi I did notice that there was not always a lot of support more of the trying to get everyone postin gthere to start DBing. i stopped reading that forum for just that reason.
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take,rather by the moments that take our breath away. M38,H40 M14 K D11 S8 D - June 09
May I ask you what changed your mind to want to go back to your H? And, how long have you been S?
I have been asked this question before. The following was my response.
"Like most I thought being away from my husband would solve my problems. I never stopped believing he was anything but amazing, still I didn't think we could overcome the barriers to communication we had faced since the beginning of our marriage.
A few things contributed to changing my mind. 1. My religious convictions. 2. My experience with separation opened up my eyes to that no one is perfect and that I actually had a good marriage with an amazing guy who adored me that just needed some work (I hope he doesn't have to have an affair or experience the single life to figure that out.) 3. I realized that people give up to easy on marriage and I would be exchanging one set of problems for another. 4. Marriage is about so much more than being head over heals in love or having a great sex life. A true committment is soldiering through the tough times and coming out a stronger couple."
We were S from Nov 06-Jul 07 and then again from Dec 07-present.
You fit the forum and I did post to you in another forum. As a WAW who became a LBS I felt that my sitch was a little out of the ordinary so I wanted a forum where the few of us could discuss out sitch. From talking to my DB coach there IS a bit of a different approach because I was a WAW. I hope too that it can provide some insight in what WAS's are thinking and feeling. I do also welcome advice or questions from LBS's. My particular question for the LBS's has been what would it take for you to take back your WAW.
Posts Role Reversal(original) WAW now LBS part I & II WAW now LBS part III(current) T: 9 yrs M: 8 yrs WAW: Sep 06-Jul 07 LBS: Sep 07-pres.
I suppose I am harping on this, but I notice in the forum of "I'm Thinking About Leaving"......have you all noticed that most of them do not stay on the board? I think it is b/c of the negative feed back they get. So, again, let's please be careful how we talk to the ones that are thinking about leaving or these that have already walked away.
Sandi, I think it is commendable of you and other WAS's to be on this board looking for advice, support and guidance. Just being here and posting shows so much courage and a demonstrates a desire a make things better. You are also a valuable resource for those LBS's looking to get a view of what their partners may be thinking / feeling.
I am also a WAW, I will get my thread moved over shortly...currently I am posting under newbies!! My H, goes and comes. One minute he seems to want to get close to me...then he retreats for weeks. It's soooo frustrating. I am really happy to see this forum open! Thanks!
Christa
H-32 Me-29 T-10years M-4yr (10/04) Me- WAW 1/07 I filed for D 2/07 D put on hold 5/07 H re-files for D 9/08 WOW! trying MC 10/08
"Work like you don't need the money, dance like nobody is watching, love like you've never been hurt!"
Greeings Christa. First let me say that I hope that things work out for you and your H. Can you tell me how long you were a WAW before you started to think twice? I am in a similar situation and the only thing preventing divorce in my sit right now is she does not have the money to pay for the court fee. She said she probably won't have it until the end of the year but I'm not betting on it.Any other words of wisdom from your sit would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time. Peace.
Hi, I was ready to end my marriage last summer. He FINALLY recognized how he was treating me, he apologized, & said he'd spent the rest of his life making it up to me if I gave him the chance.
It's been a bizarre emotional rollercoaster for 12 months now. I'm posting over in newbies, I just found this site a couple weeks ago. It's been a very valuable resource & I'm grateful for it.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
I wanted to post here when I first showed up. I was wrong. This is supposed to be a place where the WAS can vent. Get the support they need. This should be the place they can do that. It's not.
For this forum to be effective it needs to be moderated. It needs to be a "safe" place. It's not.
I want it to be. Everybody needs support.
I just don't think this forum does what it is supposed to do.
How do we change it?
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I wanted to post here when I first showed up. I was wrong. This is supposed to be a place where the WAS can vent. Get the support they need. This should be the place they can do that. It's not.
For this forum to be effective it needs to be moderated. It needs to be a "safe" place. It's not.
I want it to be. Everybody needs support.
I just don't think this forum does what it is supposed to do.
How do we change it?
Great job tasking FG!! I agree with your statement. I do feel "safe" here most of the time. I think...my 2 cents... a lot of LBS post here...to get feed back from the few of us WAWs that are open and honest. I don't feel the moderators give feedback here near as much as they do on other forums...again my 2 cents...I think most of the LBS's just want to understand or get a read on WTF their S is doing and why...so they post here...there are not to many of us WAW's that are really open and give feedback...at least on this forum...I think there may be 2or 3 that I have seen. Thanks for coming over to our little group and trying to help...much appreciated!!
Hugs 2 you!! When r u going to FG my sitch??? hehehe Christarn
H-32 Me-29 T-10years M-4yr (10/04) Me- WAW 1/07 I filed for D 2/07 D put on hold 5/07 H re-files for D 9/08 WOW! trying MC 10/08
"Work like you don't need the money, dance like nobody is watching, love like you've never been hurt!"
Hi I am a Walk-away Wife. I am 43, he is 46. I have been emotionally separated from my husband of 22 years for about 3 years and physically for a year.
At the time I left him him, he was a work-aholic, angry, verbally abusive, starting physical abuse (towards me only) man. I did not leave for another man, I left so there could be a 'me' to continue living, to continue being a 'mom' to our kids, to be a daughter to my parents, and friend to my friends. That person was in danger of disappearing emotionally & with the abuse escalating, disappearing physically.
I have low self-esteem from being raised by 2 OCD parents, as the oldest child, perfectionistic tendancies run deep in me, which were compounded by my parents unrealistic expectations & low tolerance for failure. I self-silence my needs & emotions, because of lack of trust in those I love to meet them for me, & belief that 'how could I possibly be worth it?' I understand that about myself & have been working on it in counseling for over a year and a half now.
My husband & I were HS sweethearts, each others 'first & only' and we were engaged by ages 19/22 & married by 20/23. At the time we were each others best friend.
I am pursuing a graduate degree at a university multiple hours away and working a full-time job which provides most of the day-to-day family living expenses and the all important health insurance.
His '75hour a week job' is part-owner in and managing the family-owned business, in which we have most of our savings & investments (outside my job-related retirement account). He has no steady income that comes to the family, as what is made from the business is reinvested back into it in order to make it grow. When extra expenses (vacations, car repairs, etc) arise, the business covers them. We do not own our own home, it is part of the family business that we rent it from, that part which is still owned by other members of his his family.
We have two kids early & late teens. One is leaving for college this fall. While not happy about the situation, they want happiness for both of their parents & hope that we can find it. The oldest understand both of his parents well enough to see the issues we both bring to the table & why this relationship is rocky. He understands his fathers abuse as he too has bore the brunt of the words from when he was little on. He understands my perfectionism, as he has bore the brunt of that from me as well. He is supportive of both of us, without being too judgemental, too often towards either of us.
The youngest is sad, but as she said early in the separation, she sees more of her dad now then when we were 'married'. That broke my heart & I am sure his as well. But as they say, from the mouths of babes.
I have been on DB since before I left in June of 2007. We did marriage counseling for 4 months, but when he continued to choose the job over going to counseling, I quit. He never did any DB'ing, when I first left.
In fact he did just the opposite, everything DB'ing tells you not to do. He called my friends and told them lies about why I left, he called me at all hours of the day & night, tried getting into my house, kept swinging between angry & despair, then dumping those feelings onto me & not taking any responsibility for the situation at all. It did exactly what they say it does.. pushed me even further away even faster.
In the past 6 months, we have begun talking and communicating better than we have in 20 years, if ever. I will try to answer questions that are asked respectfully, to share as best I can what is working for us and the things that changed for both of us, in order for this to occur.
We are still separated physically, although we see each other almost daily and talk on the phone multiple times a day.
I will not tolerate flamers or those who want to take me to task for being the WAW. You have not walked a mile in my shoes. If you feel the need to have someone to take your anger about your situation out on, look in the mirror and tell it to them.
As I said earlier, I will try as best I can to answer respectful questions to share a perspective from a WAS viewpoint.
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Just want to say welcome. I have always wanted a place for the WAW's. Most people here are not too hard on us, in fact, the LBH usually want to get our POV on things.
I admire your spunk! Don't take crap off of anyone. I really am impressed with what you have done with your life. Who knows, maybe he has his wake-up call and will become that man you fell in love with.....or else you can love again afresh.
I'm afraid I was the bad guy in my story. I didn't completely walk away, but was very close. But, mine was not as "repsectful" as yours....if that is a nice way to say it.
Anyway, glad you are here with us and you will have friends anytime you need to look us up and pour out any frustrations.
Take care, Sandi2
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi Sandi2 Thanks for checking... a good week-end with H this week-end. I surprised him with tickets to a comedy club Friday night, it was relaxing, no R talk, just laughs & a couple drinks. Conversation was light and all in all a good night.
He agreed today to go back to counseling without pushing the "we have to be married first" issue. But working as friends on communication and emotional safety.
He was here this afternoon (to take DD to a movied) and actually suggested he vacuum up the dog hair in the sunroom, without prompting from me, stepped up and 'parented' our daughter who was being 'snippy' with me about doing dishes. Both of which were rarely done pre-WA.
I noted my appreciation with a friendly one-armed hug and smile & that I noticed his changes, and that I appreciated it very much.
But as I noted in one posting a while back last week... it depends on which H shows up. Consistancy & regularity... we'll see.
thanks!
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Just dropping by to say hello as well. Glad the good H showed up rather than the evil twin H.
so I was posting with gForce earlier and I'm curious - do you remember when you were first getting attracted to H and you could have stayed up all night lying on the floor with him and talking about hopes, dreams, fantasies? That whole attraction phase of your R? Do you think it's possible to ever recapture that in some fashion when you've been with your spouse for a long time? If so, how (realistically speaking) - I mean, if it were up to you to drive things towards that goal, what would you do to start the ball rolling?
hi lodo well.. it's been many many years since our first attraction he was 16 & I was 14. He had a nice a$$ Hours on the phone when he went off to college (back when there was no 'unlimited long distance'), real love letters (not email),..
I'm not trying to "recapture" as what we built on was the immature puppy love of teenagers both grasping for something each of us were lacking growing up.
I am working on my trust issues from childhood that living with someone who had anger issues compounded. He was working on his anger issues that living with someone who has trust issues compounded. Together we need to work on our communication skills....
Before I can trust him enough to talk about hopes, dreams & fantasies we need to connect emotionally, before that can happen we need to communicate more effectively.. to do that we need help from a counselor who is not 'pushing' me to commit to a marriage first.
I have found the name of 3 counselors within an hour & half drive distance that have good reputations for solution-based counseling, that also specialize in communication skills & conflicct resolution training.
That is how I have started the ball rolling.
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Before I can trust him enough to talk about hopes, dreams & fantasies we need to connect emotionally, before that can happen we need to communicate more effectively.. to do that we need help from a counselor who is not 'pushing' me to commit to a marriage first.
I have found the name of 3 counselors within an hour & half drive distance that have good reputations for solution-based counseling, that also specialize in communication skills & conflicct resolution training.
That is how I have started the ball rolling.
Hi Bridgestone, That all sounds great. I guess I wasn't addressing my post at your sitch as much as I was asking. I believe that connecting emotionally REQUIRES you to open up first. It takes sharing a little of your inner life - not as puppy-love teenagers but as close adult friends who trust each other. There's that word trust again, and I guess that answers my question - you need to take that first step of trusting someone else in order to confide in them. And that's what most of us are lacking in our sitches - trust. I'm not meaning this to specifically address your mention of trust issues - just thinking aloud.
I'll be interested in hearing how your counselor has you work on communication. My W and I unfortunately communicate incredibly well. I say unfortunately because she is focused on herself and her career and doesn't place any value on our friendship and ability to intimately communicate. She wants to be alone and I have to respect that - I don't agree because I think it's hard to find someone you connect with and can communicate with, but I accept her decision.
My individual counselor had me pick up the 5 languages of apology by Chapman, months ago, because I was having difficulty in forgiving my LBS for his abusive behaviour towards me and the kids.
When I finally had enough intestinal fortitude (read here emotionally saftey with him) to share it a few months back, he took the initiative to order the 5 love languages for Men on his own.
That lead to more conversations about what was missing & what we each needed. Not to completion however, as our poor communication seems to side-track us hashing through negative emotions (stage 1), but at least some of these issues saw a glimmer of the light of day for the first time in years.
Those two things combined have done wonders for us feeling more connected to the other than anything we have done to this point in our marriage. We however, seem to be at an impasse in using the tools we have to get back on track when our communications break down or when we can not resolve a conflict.
I am hoping a counselor will help provide us that. Since I'm much more knowledgable this time around going into Counseling.. I'm not sure if I should schedule phone interviews with them and say...
here's our goals, here's how far we've come (love that Matchbox 20 song), here's the tools we have used to get here, what can you do and what are you willing to do to help us move forward.
Or are we going to 'waste' time sitting in 3 different counselors offices + car ride time just to find out that they don't believe in the 5 love languages or the other tools we find DO work for us. Maybe I should be in "piecing' forum with these questions.
I'm sorry your wife does not place the value for what she is looking for in a partner on the same things you do.. it is rare to find someone you connect to & communicate with intimately, I agree, just as it is rare to find that level of intimacy physically & mentally (IMHO). I hope you can find common ground or at least common happiness on non-common ground.
Peace.
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
I've seen others mention 5 LL, guess I should probably pick it up one of these days.
I think counselors (good ones) exist to do exactly what you are looking for. There are also communication workshops that are really good - my parents went to one 5 years ago and gained a lot from it.
I think you should call and discuss things with the Counselor. You're paying for a service and if you know what you're looking for and that isn't what they do, you should know that up front. I look back at my sitch and I think 2 inappropriate counselors really screwed things up. One was just bad and the other was extremely good for IC, but not for MC and not action-oriented. So it left W feeling worse about things. Don't waste time - find out up front.
I'm sorry my W isn't approaching things as well. I know there is a lot I need to work on with myself and I'm doing so. The rest requires the input of another. I have to keep telling myself it isn't all my problem but it's hard not to take all of that on. Ultimately, though, I'm not a mind reader and I need to know what she wants in a R so I have the opportunity to provide that. Anyway, I have my own thread so won't burden this one with my ramblings.
Hope you aren't in the midst of all the storms! lodo
I would try to make sure that the counselor did not get off into a long drawn out thing about the childhood stuff and get more down with solutions about how to fix the M or how to communicate. Unfortunately, a lot of counselors think the answer to finding happiness is for a couple to go their separate ways. It there are deep emotional problems....it may take a doctor of higher degree than just a counsleor. I have been to a couple and I think you will know pretty quickly if it is the one for you or not.
Good luck.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I sure hope you keep posting! I think you're really good at putting your finger on complex emotions and I've benefited immensely from the insights you've posted on various threads. And I hope you reconsider about having your own thread; if you decide to go that route it's easier for the rest of us to get a hold of you.
Hi Lodo, Thanks for the kind words. I wish it was so easy with my H & me. But if it was I guess I would not be here now would I?
I remember reading another WAS's postings I think it was smartcookie and crying (& until lately, I have not been a cryer)because she so wonderfully articulated my feelings & thoughts in a way that I wish my H could hear how it was & still sometimes is to me.
I guess we get different things from different people's postings. Some of yours give me hope that people can see their role in the breakdown of the marriage and truly take responsibility for their part of the separation by making changes that are true to their values & beliefs.
I keep wondering though, even when LBS & WAW finally talk it all out, give it (the new "R") more chances... is there such a thing as incompatability.. or does the DB philosophy believe that once compatible (that's why you got married right?) always compatible?
Can I love him as a person, be his friend, and still not find enough things in common for values, recreation, intellectual pursuits, work habits, parenting, money matters, etc. for it to 'work' as a life-partner?
I remember my IC asking at one time.. if you were sitting across the table from him over dinner, would he be someone you'd want to have ask you out for a 2nd date? And my immediate and intense reactions was 'hell, no', I'm not even sure why I'd be on the first one.
Has he changed, yes he most definately has changed. Do I believe the changes are for him... some of them, yes. Others, no. I see him saying.. look at what I did or what I am, and then as you so clearly put in another post, gawking at me to see if I noticed.
uggg.. maybe I should start my own thread. I am finding my self getting long winded about my sitch are here a lot.
Thanks for listening.
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
I keep wondering the same thing about WAW & LBS. In my particular sitch, my W is determined to get D - I'm a "wonderful person and we connect on many levels" but she doesn't think she can be the person for me. What does that mean? That she's changed. That marriage for her is different than what she thinks it is for me.
A long-term relationship is a compromise and I don't think we truly appreciate what that means. It's really hard. It's accepting someone for who they are and knowing that there are things you'll never like in them. Are those things big enough to throw the whole thing away? I think my W is currently saying "yes," but will those things still seem so huge when she starts trying with someone else? Only time will tell. My W and I are basically compatible, we have a solid friendship, and we communicate well. She asked me if that was enough to sustain a relationship. I think yes, she thinks no. What would you say? It's hard for me to see basing a long-term R on anything else and I don't see Rs as being self-sustaining. I think my W thinks they need to be more self-sustaining - those things in common should just come naturally. I think you have to work at involving each other. Both of you. Working hard.
Parts of people who are compatible will always be compatible, I think, and parts won't be. You can concentrate and work on the parts that are compatible, or decide too much has changed. I commend you for concentrating on the parts that work. You have to do that to figure it out. I wish my W was willing to do the same.
And the gawking, yes, us guys are really good at that. We aren't so good at being subtle, so when something is bothering us we want to change it as fast as possible. I recognize that changes I made 4 months ago have slid away, so I guess you're smart to be wary. But I'm glad that, unlike my W, you continue to engage him and give feedback about his changes. One question I have, though, is if the burden of proof should all be on him. Relationships take two, so are there changes you should be making to be more accepting of who he is? Would transcending the present turmoil and reaching a place of comfort that will never be as exciting as new love - is that worth the compromise?
I guess I'm divided about all of this. I tried going dark to move on but emailed W yesterday. I am who I am - a nice person who can't play games and I miss her. I miss her conversation and deep down I know she misses mine even though she's trying hard to put it out of her mind and heart.
Have I done enough to show her someone who "gets it"? Obviously not. Should I keep trying? I don't know. I'd decided there was nothing more I could do and I deserve someone who would be there for me as much as I've been there for them (my W has always been focused on her self & career), so was ready to move on. Then I re-read various posts and DR about truly being patient, knowing when you have no more to give, etc. and have been going back and forth. Should I be friends with W or go dark to separate emotionally? Should I keep trying with blind determination or move on? Of course my sitch has the added complication of OM and I don't know how big that wrench is, but I see similar things in your postings that address my inner struggles. Is this how you feel as well? grasshopper posted that the LBS can be as much a WAS as the WAS - I guess that has stuck with me these last few weeks but I don't know what to do with the info.
Sorry for the rambling. Hope you have a great day!
Hi Lodo I'm listening, but a bit distracted today as my major professor needs for a summer class are pressing, the weather here is a major concern, and I have two hour drive each way today to get to campus to deal with the summer class issues.
I'll re-read this right before I leave and then ponder your thoughts & questions on my drive. I'll check in later tonight.
Right now I can tell you that you & my H have said the same thing about how the R could be enough... best friends with sex is how he defines what is enough for him to be in a marriage relationship. Is that what I'm hearing you say is enough for you?
I don't agree with that. Maybe women & men define best friends differently, I don't know about that. I need to think about that and your question about being more accepting of who he is.
Have a good day. Thanks for the thoughts.
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
what are you studying? I'm working on a master's and have to do the summer school thing too.
I didn't mean to indicate that best friends with sex is enough. I think the best friends part is what carries you through those periods of losing other connections and hopefully sustains you while you start reconnecting in other ways. But those reconnections are vital. How they happen is tricky, though, and I guess that's where I was heading.
For instance, my W was annoyed because I stopped being enthusiastic about going to parties. But the parties she always wanted to go to were with her colleagues who only talk about their work. I tend to be somewhat shy at first in social settings, so had a hard time mixing and she'd never stay with me and help me mingle. So it wasn't enjoyable for me. I liked the people, though, and enjoy going to parties.
So how to reconnect on doing things socially in that situation? Both of us would have to give something because it won't happen naturally - I'm not in her field and she doesn't have my shyness. But if we made an effort to understand what each other needed and then tried to meet those needs, it'd work.
So not sure if that's a good example of what I was thinking or not, but no, best friends with sex isn't enough. You need to meet each others needs. But I don't think that comes naturally - I think you need to work on it and communicate with each other about what those needs are, how they can be met, and how far you're willing to compromise so that the other can realistically meet them.
lodo
PS - one other question. In my sitch, I'm in a master's program and W reinstated into a PhD program. So times were pretty intense at our house. 9 years ago she started a master's and broke up with me 3 months later saying she didn't think we had enough in common. Last fall, 3 months after starting her PhD, she moved out saying we didn't have enough in common. Since you're in school yourself, how much do you think the new experiences and pressures of school add to the dissatisfaction at home?
hi, thanks for explaining a bit more what you meant.
I agree that compromise is important. communication is vital about those needs & how important those needs are, is it a 10? or a 2? on a scale of 1-10.
H & I are very different about what are our MC called our absolutes. That became abundantly clear in counseling. We never made it to the compromise part or even understanding of mine, for various reasons.
I am in a PhD program for the past 7 years and yes it added pressures that played many roles directly and indirectly in our splitting.
Misunderstandings of what I needed for support when trying to complete dissertation resesarch with a full-time job, 2 teen-agers, a 2 hour commute, a spouse with an 80 hour a week job, and a major professor who is certifiably nuts became rampant in the relationship and his anger intensified because I was not meeting his needs the way I used to. I changed the rules of the game, he did not like the realities of what he agreed to do when I went back to school.
I will now lose my job because I did not finish my PhD in time to keep it. It needed to be done by this August, it will be done by December. There is much bitterness over that.
There are not many jobs in my area that can use people with my experience & education level. Moving to where those jobs are means moving my D. away from her Dad or me away from her. I'm not ready to make that choice yet.
As a plaque above my kitchen sink says.. it is what it is.
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Oh bridgestone. I've gotta tell you how much your post hurts. In so many different ways. I'm supposed to be preparing for a presentation tonight, but had to stop and respond to this.
Communication? On a scale of 1-10, communicating needs is 10, but I think we're guilty of always letting it slide. Saying "I won't rock the boat over it this time", but those times build up and then it's too late. The saying "never go to bed angry" is pretty much the truth - I'd rather stay up all night and figure out the compromise then let it build up.
Your absolutes? Not sure what that might be - can you give an example? If your husband never understood yours, is he trying to now? If so, is he doing a good job or a crappy job?
Your description of the program is what tore me apart. I work at a university and see so many of these situations play out. You'd think I would've appreciated my own, but no.
My W tends to retreat when she gets busy, and rather than offer her support, I took offense. I didn't understand what the experience was like and I bet your husband didn't either. Even if he'd done his own PhD, it's different when you're in the experience.
And I'm sorry, but how the hell do you work on a PhD with a full-time job, 2 teenagers, a 2 hour commute, and a spouse who's never there?! That is craziness! My god, what have you been going through? And how have you survived?! With prof on top of everything you must have felt cornered and crushed at the same time.
So I have to admit that 9 years ago I wasn't supportive when my W changed the rules of the game after starting school. I didn't support her. And I suppose I didn't support her when she started her PhD, though I thought I was just giving her space. And I was pursuing my own grad degree work and thought she understood I needed support/understanding too. Anyway, that was the final straw. She slept with OM a month later. The kicker is that he is a major part of her thesis and if she wants to pursue the narrow field she's in, she'll be encountering him for the foreseeable future - my demand that she never contact him again fell on deaf ears since it threatened her career.
Is losing your job a for sure thing? We've had many students in the same position, but most of them have been able to work out a deal. If not, yes - you should feel bitter and I'd say you're justified. So then what happens?
You don't need to make the choice about moving yet, but I think you should eventually make the move. I've lived in a small community where the quality of life was high but job options were low and it drove me crazy after 10 years. Now I'm in a place where there are great job options and I can make enough to travel. Much better. I have friends, though, who are doing the opposite. So far they've made it work, but I can see the strain starting to accumulate.
Thanks for responding. I must say it is always nice to come across one of your posts. Take care, lodo
A collections of Postings from various forums where I put my different parts of my sitch when I first got here.. hopefully it helps paint a better picture of where I am at.
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Hi everyone, I am new here and although computer savvy, not quite sure where I should post or even BE on this site. AND, SHOULD I even be on this site? All I know is that Wednesday my fiance/domestic partner showed up with a truck to move his stuff out of our home after many threats to do so over the last several months. I am left with the bills, the hurt, the pain, the "what the heck?" feeling. COULD I say it is all him? SURE. But that would not be fair. HOWEVER, I missed a lot of signs early on and want/wanted to make it work. I am coming to see he is fairly immature and RUNS from relationships (he has been married 3x by 32, we got together when he was 34...I was 36, married 1x prior to my HS sweetheart for 14 years). What am I needing? I guess mostly the support of the 180 degree turnaround technique. I have been strong for the kids (my kids called him Dad and his son saw me as Mom) and not contacting him. I am not contacting him even though there are bills to pay and I have no idea where I stand. he would see that as "pushy" and annoying. When he left he said "we would for sure be talking, that we would see each other again, and that maybe we would work things out down the road." UH? Hello? I have tried and standing there watching him load the moving truck in a matter of a couple hours without talking with me I am left to think HUH? DATE? He will be "seeing me" and "talking with me later?" Does he know how much he has hurt me? I just want to stay focused....strong and not panic that "I am not worthy or loveable." I have not heard from him since Wednesday morning and I am not calling....no, I am NOT calling.
Butterfly If you are still here & checking, please post in the Newcomers thread.. it gets much more traffic than this one does & I'm sure you'll get a bunch more response over there.
Chin up..
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Hi there, I am an LBS and have been DBing for 18 months, about 2 months after WAW left.
I just wanted to say that I think many of you have made a brave choice and noone should put up with verbal or physical abuse. Good on you. Those that were flaming are just mad, and that's an easy place for an LBS to be before we start to look at how we contributed to the problems ourselves.
My question relates to my sitch; 18 months down the track after W did her WA; a EA progressing to a PA for WAW after seperation(lasted about 3 months); we go on holiday together to "see", things OK but not great, she retreats (I don't push the R discussion, maybe I should have?); my Dad dies, WAW is absent during that time and now is angry with me, her family etc.....
any advice on how to get out of this limbo???
Kiwi
Last edited by kiwi000; 01/29/0908:46 AM.
-------- Me; 38 W; 34 1 4yr old S Married 4.5 yrs, together 9 yrs Bomb; 15 June 2007 Holiday together Sept 2008; My Dad dies Nov 2008; reconcliation fails Nov 2008
Kiwi - I think the best thing you can do is let her go. It will seem like the last thing you want to do but she aint coming bak to you like it is.
Sh maybe needs a chance to see what she is losing. she cant miss anything if you are smothering her. My H did this and I looked back but to late for me. My was years in the making and breaking. Might not be to late for you.
Hi, I am wondering if this might be the right spot for me. I enjoy the support of people on this board but am not sure I fit in any of the forums anymore.
My husband had an affair and left. I db'd for many months and finally gave up. We have a signed separation agreement and are undergoing the transfer of the deed of the house. NOW he decides it is his life's purpose to be my husband, and I do not want it anymore.
I want to get along and I want him to be ok but I do not want the M even though he now wants to work on it, is this the appropriate place, am I now a WAS even though there is no one living here to walk away from?
Me~34 H~38 D6.5
EA/PA-DEC.07
Moved out~Apr.13,08 Sep. Papers~Dec.7,08 No contact order ~Dec.9,08 and again October 13, 2009
This thread seems to have died out...so here is some new life for it...
I just wanted to say that DB seems to treat us like we are mentally defective...that we need to be cured...We are bombarded with psycho-babble terms ("fogged" "going dark")...We are lectured to that marriage as an institution is more important than anything (even being happy in it)...This might explain the high religious content to some of the posts...
Don't even get me started on all the silly abbreviations...a language unto itself!
Many of the posts out here are filled with the most vile, ugly comments hurled our way...which is fine if name calling helps people feel better...
Is it possible...just possible...that after much painful deliberation we came to the decision that was best for us...?
I guess that doesn't sell very many books, tapes, sessions, etc. though...
Is it also possible that the WAS is the one that gave up? That professed values and then found that they lied and couldn't live up to them? i.e. false advertising? Could it be that the WAS didn't do everything they could prior to deciding that selfishness was the only way they could be happy? That there is no way to work through their issues?
Could it be that is what makes the rejection so hard?
Name calling? I suspect that goes both ways, no?
I personally try not to call names. I'm sure I have done it out of frustration. I do honestly love my WAS. I realize through this process I lover her enough to let her go. As if I could have ever kept her from leaving right?
I hear what you're saying. I'm trying to provide another perspective in hopes of understanding what you're getting at. I don't understand walking away from commitment. I never have. I hope I never do. But for WAS's it seems they have found a way to walk away from theirs.
Can you help me understand that part of the process? Perhaps it would provide the most insight to those LBS's that are trying to understand the other side.
"Without common understanding, there can be no common sense" Humbly, -AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Hi View, and thanks for sharing your view (sorry couldn't resisit).
I'd just like to maybe send a positivie vibe your way. Through being here I've come to meet a handful of WAS'. And each and everyone of them have been very helpful and supportive in showing us LBS' the 'view' (did it again ) from the other side of the fence that we can't see. I regard them as good friends in this crazy world we all live in as a result of whatever happened in our marriages. But I for one certainly do not regard any of them as mentally defective or what not.
And let's face the grim fact as it may be, what would you say is the actual ratio of left behind spouses versus walk away's on the site? Probably a rather small number on the later half, of which i applaud you for being here.
It's just hard to fathom for most for half a second how disacknowledging those commitments made in front of family and friends in sake of making the best descission for one's sake as the only option. I'll tell you, I'm certanly no 'holy roller' and was married non-denominational. But no matter like mine or any specific religion, it all boils down to the term UNITY. So when that unity is broken for the sake of one's self, despite, better or worse, sickness or in health, and all, there's the problem in trying to understand how the other person who vowed those same promises can just up and leave, especially when there is children involved you know?
Now, if they changed the saying from forever "til death do you part" to "however amicably endeavorous" or "X amount of years" then I'm sure a lot of folks would be feeling a whole lot different when the bomb drops you know?
Sure there's 'mudslinging', name calling on everybody's part, you know you have a few new not so nice pet names for your spouse after all this right? I would like to say it's overall nothing personal to the walk away masses, but more an individual thing, however i can't say entirely as I don't read every single thread on here, but none the less, you get the drift.
The terminology, yeah I couldn't agree with you more there, still don't understand but a few things of it myself.
But overall, unless the acts that make you leave are of a endangerment to you is becoming another statistic for the books really the only answer?
I realized a while ago after creating my thread that the particular forum was intended for WAW's to come together and post, for that I do humbly appologize to all.
dday
Me 35/XW 33 S13 & S12 M: 10/17/98 OM & S: 07/08 D final 06/09/09 12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing" 06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10 06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
As I re-read some of this, I think something else stands out. One of the difficulties that comes out of being a left behind spouse is that we didn't see it coming. Why is that? Did we bury our heads? Did we just live in a far off land and not realize that things weren't working? Did our spouse just leave prior to leaving, make a decision for what's best for them personally (vs the couple) and then finally get up the courage to tell how they felt?
Or did we expect that working through issues was part of being married. That being in love is a choice and not something that a leprechaun just magically bestows on us when we walk through the woods? (that was humor or humour if you're on the other side of the pond).
I don't hold any grudges. I've asked my WAS if she could have done this any other way. I believe her when she says no. Does that make this any less difficult? No. Not for me nor for her.
What if the WAS told their "partner" how they felt long before? What if the WAS was honest about their own feelings long before the "bomb" as the LBS considers it? Why do LBS never see this coming?
Religion aside, I think dday makes some good points. This was a partnership. A friendship. A trusted area of your life where you trusted yourself to your partner. You also trusted your feelings and your innermost thoughts with your best friend and partner. At least at one point you did. Then you decided that it wasn't something you could do any more. The deal was broken. You turned on your best friend (from their perspective) and seem surprised that they are hurt or that they lash out.
Partnerships are just that. You share the joys and the burdens. When you stop doing that, it hurts.
My additional $0.04 anyway (USD)
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
What if the WAS told their "partner" how they felt long before? What if the WAS was honest about their own feelings long before the "bomb" as the LBS considers it? Why do LBS never see this coming?
I think in almost every case I can safely say they did, we just weren't listening. That's why I tell all new lost LBS to figure out what it is THEY did to cause their spouse to lveave
Me 35/XW 33 S13 & S12 M: 10/17/98 OM & S: 07/08 D final 06/09/09 12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing" 06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10 06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
Dday 101798 touches on an important point. For years I thought I was sending out signals anyone could interpret that I was not happy. Still, my LBS considered it a "bomb" (wow, maybe I can sling this terminology). Beforehand, the feeling I would always get was along the lines of "well, where the heck are you going to go?" In other words, I felt very taken for granted.
My situation had it all--we were saddled with mountains of debt, alienation of affection, didn't see eye to eye on much of anything...Of course, it was never like that in the beginning but our "commitments" are expected to never change when the entire world around them does.
Perhaps all this made me a prime OW candidate, but I do not feel like I was hoodwinked, stolen, fogged, beguiled or any of that other crap. The day came when I simply realized I was in love with someone else...and that could not happen if I still loved my former spouse...
I do not feel dysfunctional, mentally deficient, evil, or any of the many other things we WAS are called out here. Someone once said if marriage required 1 year and ten thousand dollars to get into, and divorce required a cheap certificate from the courthouse, we would have a helluva lot fewer divorces. We all know it works the other way around though.
"Getting out" was very traumatic and I take my fair share of the blame for that. If there was a mistake to be made, I probably made it. Still, the LBS did a lot of damage too, and all in the name of a commitmant that was no longer worth the paper it was printed on.
In the end, as crazy as it sounds, I chose the divorce option for the kid's sake. No one will ever understand that...but it was the only way I could see them without the LBS around. The kids were used as tools to get me to come back...and I resent that to this very day.
So...in the end...although maybe some of us are on opposite sides of the fence so to speak...maybe there is a way we can still help each other...
So...in the end...although maybe some of us are on opposite sides of the fence so to speak...maybe there is a way we can still help each other...
Exactamundo!
And thanks for sharing your story. I can understand your position. I don't neccessarily agree with the outcome, but that's truly none of my business to debate, to each their own.
Also, thanks for clarifying what I said earlier, often times, the 'signals' are sent, but never received.
Me 35/XW 33 S13 & S12 M: 10/17/98 OM & S: 07/08 D final 06/09/09 12/03/09 - 06/13/10 "Piercing" 06/13/10: Engaged to Re-marry 10/17/10 06/25/10: Expecting baby #3 2/14/11
The day came when I simply realized I was in love with someone else...and that could not happen if I still loved my former spouse...
Just so I understand, can you replay that for me? How did you get to be in love with somebody else when you were still married? I don't get that.
I am a man of deep commitment. I don't make them lightly and I stick by them at my own cost. Why? I am not naturally wired that way but I realized as a younger man that the world changes. People change. My commitments are something that don't have to if I guard them properly. I do. So I have a hard time understanding that part of the relationship you are in or had. Don't get me wrong. I am NOT suggesting that you stay in a loveless relationship. It takes two people to make a relationship work. But that's just it - it takes work. Not communicating? Work on it. You'll get it right if you BOTH try. Think you're communicating but your partner "doesn't get it?" - then you're not communicating. You're talking at your partner, right?
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In the end, as crazy as it sounds, I chose the divorce option for the kid's sake. No one will ever understand that...but it was the only way I could see them without the LBS around. The kids were used as tools to get me to come back...and I resent that to this very day.
No, I get it. I can see how people would do that and may not even realize they are doing it. I can also see how, if you and ex are not communicating you could take it that way even if ex didn't intend or realize that it was happening that way. The losers in the situation are the kids. No matter what. And you only do such things when there is a lot of feeling involved. Your ex hasn't moved on yet right?
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I do not feel dysfunctional, mentally deficient, evil, or any of the many other things we WAS are called out here. Someone once said if marriage required 1 year and ten thousand dollars to get into, and divorce required a cheap certificate from the courthouse, we would have a helluva lot fewer divorces. We all know it works the other way around though.
Humor. that's good to see. Obviously, you have some doubts about what happened and are trying to understand the events. That would be a large part of the reason you are here. You otherwise would have no reason to discuss this situation with people here. Or defend what you have chosen to do in your life. If you are totally comfortable with the events and can say it won't happen to you again, then there is really no need to revisit. There is nothing you're going to gain from this that I can see. Even the sense that you're teaching people like me the other side of the fence, won't buy you anything. You have a relationship with another man that you're totally happy with. You're comfortable that you couldn't have made your choices any differently. You're comfortable in your own skin.
I don't think you are mentally ill, deficient or evil. I think you are the product of your choices. I think you may be a person with a regret or a piece of left over doubt. I hope I'm wrong because that would suck for you if you did.
Best of luck to you in your new relationship.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
For years I thought I was sending out signals anyone could interpret that I was not happy. Still, my LBS considered it a "bomb" (wow, maybe I can sling this terminology).
You sent out signals? Did you ever actually sit down and tell your spouse that you were unhappy and that you needed to seek counselling and perhaps a divorce, or did you just send out 'signals' that you expected to be interpreted correctly?
Maybe your LBS really was caught off guard! Maybe he/she just thought you were chronically constipated.
It appears you expect the LBS' to behave in a more mature manner and accept that people, situations and marriages change while it's perfectly acceptable for you to behave in an immature and cowardly fashion.
It appears you expect the LBS' to behave in a more mature manner and accept that people, situations and marriages change while it's perfectly acceptable for you to behave in an immature and cowardly fashion.
View I apologise for this. It probably justifies why so few spouses who have left their marriage come here to post. I personally think you have alot to offer in terms of understanding how a marriage can just fall apart. You have to consider that alot of posters are very new to being LBS's (sorry hard to avoid site terminology) and therefore their pain is still raw and b/c of this they may be less than charitable. Yes the one who walks has alot of lables put on them, for some LBS's it is how they cope, they have to believe that the person they loved are sick or mentally ill in some form or other,they have to believe in severe MLC symptoms how else can they hang on to the hope that one day their marriage will be restored (and some are) I know nothing about your story and haven't seen you post, but wanted to say thank you for your courageous attempt at giving us your pov as that of a waw and to say we do not all subscribe to the previous posters thoughts.
You know nothing about my story either but you seem to have jumped to some conclusions.
I am not a LBS, nor am I hanging on to the hope that my marriage will be restored. I do not believe that my former spouse is sick or mentally ill. I do believe that he is having some type of identity crisis or MLC but this is not certain -- he very well may just be a coward.
I ended my marriage and filed for the divorce after spending the last two years of a 14 year relationship listening to my spouse tell me that he loved me, was happy and wanted to be married to me.
The problem was he didn't seem to be happy and the situation was causing me unhappiness. I tried to talk with him numerous times over that period and near the end we tried counselling. He didn't waver from the above even though he decided at some point to begin an extramarital affair. Just to be clear, I did not find out about the affair until seven months after I ended the marriage.
I do not believe that someone should stay in a marriage or relationship when they are no longer happy and fulfilled. I am not religious and do not believe that God has anything to do with marriage.
I do believe, however, that anyone who does not have the decency to be honest and upfront and tell their spouse that they want out BEFORE beginning an emotional and/or physical relationship with someone else is a coward.
Kai, I am sorry you felt all my post related to you it was a generalisation in the main but I did think your calling the poster
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immature and cowardly
was not a very nice thing to do. Your own story is perhaps a little different than many here. I do agree with you about ending one relationship before beginning another but I feel maybe View felt he had done that and maybe his wife didn't or wouldn't hear his words and unhappiness. I am sorry that dispite your husband saying he loved you etc you still felt the need to D and the problems could not be resolved. I don't see how you ending the marriage makes him a coward. Could the affair have begun after you filed? The beauty of this site is that we all have differing POV and yet we all come together from all walks of life to support each other through their own personal pain. Maybe as your story is different from many you will able to offer insight to the newcomers.
Um, no, I don't see this as name calling or out of the conversation parameters. Nor should you apologize for somebody else's post. That's not a responsible way to have a conversation.
I suspect we're all saying similar things. We think that communication is important. Whether we are religious or not. We think that commitment is important whether we are brave or a coward. We think that it takes a great deal of courage to stick it out and try even when faced with overwhelming odds and pressure to divorce. Many of us think that divorce is not the answer to the problems a WAS has. We often have to allow that we could be wrong, but I for one feel my trust was betrayed when my WAS decided that she no longer wanted to trust me. And decided to take that trusted relationship outside the marriage to other males. What is often termed an emotional affair (or EA).
I'm certainly open to hearing the other side of the conversation. I came here exactly for that. But it has to be real. It has to be open. I suspect other spouses came to this location for the same reason - to hear it. Unadulterated.
If a WAS cannot share their feelings here, anonymously it almost proves out the idea that was posted - coward. That's ok.
I don't think the poster's here are cowards, for what its worth. I think they have something to say. I don't yet know what that is yet I hope to hear it. I know I don't have any answers. I have questions. I have opinions. I have comments. I am in NO position to pass judgement. I may become a WAS before much longer. Then I may have something to say here.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
You apologized to view for my post so, absolutely, it was related to me.
I read view's post to say that he/she had an affair, fell in love with the OP, and concluded that the love for his/her spouse must be gone. "Sent out signals" is not discussing your unhappiness with your spouse. If my intepretation is correct, I stand by what I wrote in my first post.
My husband was telling me that he loved me and wanted our marriage while he was having an affair. The affair most certainly did not start after I ended the marriage. If it had, I would not call it an affair because once separated, we are both free to pursue other relationships as far as I am concerned.
He kept me emotionally connected to him by telling me the above, while he disconnected from me by pursuing another relationship. After I ended the marriage he told me that he stopped loving me a long time ago. That is what makes him a coward.
BTW - even he admitted that he is a coward and believes that he is having a MLC.
This is my final reply on this matter but I reiterate that I actually apologised for the highlighter bit only.The rest was generalisation. Maybe I should not have felt the need to apologise for that. However I did. I would like View to continue posting and didn't want him to feel judged.
If you're not free to marry, then you're not free to date! Cheaters somehow are able to justify their actions. It doesn't change the fact that they are cheating. Cheating while married is wrong, period!
.02
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
What about places where there can be a long waiting period before divorce? Someone on another forum claimed they lived in a country that had a five year waiting period if the divorce is contested by one of the parties.
Antlers is right about cheating...it is wrong and I admit that and I believe if you do something wrong you should apologize and move on. That is what I have tried to do. As for the MLC stuff, to me this is just more psycho-babble--an easy to use term for a complex situation that is different for everyone. Judged, as naej put it? Oh my, yes, I have been judged up one side and down the other by my ex and (I believe) through her prompting even by my kids...I have caused a lot of damage, I know that, but I have been damaged a lot in the process...
I got married when I was 21...I'm about double that now...and I think I have learned a lot along the way and am much wiser and even better despite my failures. I am OK with where I am at. Maybe I do not have anything to offer...other than things tend to work themselves out in the end if we sometimes just get out of our own way...
Antlers, I wasn't sure what you meant. I have noticed many believe that people should not date until the divorce is final and personally, I find that very unrealistic.
View, From what I have read, there is a lot more to a MLC than infidelity. Does your former spouse have other reasons to believe that you had or are having a MLC or did he/she grasp that in the hopes that you would come out of the "fog" and return to the marriage?
How long ago did your separation/divorce occur?
Whatever the reason for your infidelity you must try to understand that no matter what the state of a relationship, NOTHING is more painful than the discovery that a partner has been unfaithful. It shakes a person to the core; destroying trust, confidence, self-esteem, sense of stability, etc. All of this will take a long long time to recover from.
When I first ended my marriage, I was sad, uncertain and scared but was determined to move forward with my life. When I started discovering all of the things my now XH had done, culminating with discovering the affair, everything changed. It has now been ten months and I cannot begin to imagine starting a romantic relationship with anyone.
Are you still with the person you had the affair with? How is that relationship? Is he/she able to trust you given the old sayings "If they will do it with you, they will do it to you" etc.
I wouldn't date, at all, until the divorce was final. That's just me. I want to know that, whatever happens, I did not give up...ever...on my committment to my wife and our marriage. Again, that's just me.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
I understand and respect your view. Personally, I don't have a problem with it as long as everyone treats their former partners with respect and consideration.
One other thought on this subject...most people don't question their lifelong committment to their children. Regardless of the rough spots, depression, and disillusionment we experience as a result of our lives with our children...nobody would ever think of divorcing their children. That's absurd. We learn to roll with punches. People have committed, all-forgiving attitudes toward their children...but when their spouses don't live up to their expectations...divorce is considered as an option!
Why?
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Because they convince themselves that they are a victim and will no longer accept that? (could be true in some cases; in others it is self-inflicted I'm sure).
Just guessing though.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I don't have children myself but always assumed that parental love is different than a love for a spouse. I have heard so many people (men and women) say that when they held their newborn in their arms, they felt a love they had never believed possible.
I can only speak to my reasons for divorcing my husband.
A couple of years before we separated he changed. He already golfed and played hockey two nights on the weekends but then started spending most week nights with his coworkers or clients. He worked in the financial industry and they tend to socialize a lot. A non-drinker for many years he tended to come home after business dinners rather than head to the bar. No longer. Now he was coming in at 1:00, 2:00 and sometimes even 3:30 a.m. I was alone most of the time, taking care of all the housework and going to bed alone most nights. If he was home, he was tired and/or hungover and didn't want to do anything. Needless to say, our sex life was almost non-existant.
I tried very hard to impress upon him that our marriage was suffering and he would promise to do better, but he never did. I started golfing a lot more just so we would spend more time with each other. Near the end he told me that I needed to find my own interests so that I wasn't bored and therefore annoyed with him.
Obviously this is highly condensed, but eventually I saw no other recourse although I still loved him (still do really) and very much wanted to stay married to him. He was not being a good partner and had made it clear through his actions that he had no intention of changing the situation. Pushing me further and futher away also, I assume, made it easy for him to begin an affair and complete the detachment from me and our marriage.
I don't know what would have happened if I had stayed in the marriage. I don't believe he would have left, as he was still telling me he loved me, wanted our marriage, etc. but I honestly don't know why.
I can only speak for myself. I am irrevocably committed to my wife and our marriage, and the preservation of our family. When I took our vows...I meant what I said. "For better OR for worse...". I wouldn't divorce my kids, even if they ignored me or mistreated me or caused me heartache...or whatever. And I feel the same way about my wife. That's just me.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Yes, I am still with that person. The relationship is stronger than anything I have experienced before. In many ways, I feel like a new person, a better person. We are very happy together.
I agree that what I did was very painful. I just wish there could be some final resolution on my XW's part, for her sake more than mine. However, a lot of the ex-spouse bashing that goes on out here is, in my opinion, not very health beyond a certain point. I guess that was mainly what I was getting at. So, I probably will not be visiting again but I thank everyone for listening.
1> you can belive that at some point your partner or you will feel like leaving therefore your relationship is not as stable as you may think
2> someday we all will have the choice to walk away, I hope you can see it thru the storms because if you can't why should your partner stay knowing you left your last partner?
fireproof "The sad part about it is, when most people promise for better or for worse, they really only mean for the better"
WAW 32 ME 38 D11, S9 & D2 Together 10/96 Married 4/2000 Bomb 4/2006 PA1 9/2006 PA2 11/2006 I now know I want out, With my Kids!!!
Thank you JCM. Some wars end in peace treaties and others just end in a cease fire with the parties staring angrily at each other over the barbed wire, just waiting for an excuse to shoot... In my little analogy here the kids are the civilians trapped between the armies and I still struggle with trying to find a way to allow them to let go of their negativity and find true "peace".
Antlers, thats not always true... my ex 'divorced' our three children happily, walked off into the sunset, telling THEM that he'd "not be seeing them or speaking with them for a very long time". after 3 years antlers, i'd have to say he meant forever. no support financially or otherwise, happily living with OW overseas and he didnt even have the balls to tell us that, we had to find out later on.
dont assume people dont walk away from their kids when they walk away frm their spouse SOME do, and I think its 'learnt' behaviour - he came from 'abandoning' parents. What did i expect.
When you're down to nothing, God is up to something.
There are always exceptions, and he sounds like one of them...but by and large, I think people are willing to forgive their kids when they are not willing to forgive their spouses.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Hi all, I am an LBS. WAW had EA progressing to PA with co-worker. She called it off, I wanted to try and fix it.
Am I bitter.... no I am not.
I DBed for 18 months and it kind of worked, WAW wanted to come back and we went on holiday together with our S4.
Problem is, after 18 months GAL and DBing, my own emotional enagement was not there. I didn't regress or forget my 180s; in fact I was more mature, more centred but much much less interested in our M.
I guess that the desire to walk away can cut both ways. I thought I knew what I wanted in saving my M but my over-riding feeling is that the "magic" has gone. It feels like it will be easier to meet someone new for some reason... when I am ready to. I say that because of I have to start again (and that's what it feels like with WAW) I figure I'm better off without baggage other than my own.
Does that make me selfish, is having parents who are together better for S4? There's lots of kids out there with parents who S....
The real truth is, people do leave their marriages. My In Laws say WAW is "sick" and I hung onto that for quite a while. But it's not true; we just had a M that did not work. I wanted it to and I'm pretty sure so did WAW. We were both hurt here and it's sad we couldn't make it work. I am religuous and while my faith says stay together I don't beleive God or anyone wants people to stay in an unhappy marriage.
Turn the M around, sure. DB to prevent the big D but if it can't be fixed then I think people should S.
I was as angry as anything when we S but I worked sooo hard to stay my anger and make sure our S4 was OK and there were no recriminations. WAW will always be his Mother.
Looking back 2 years later and only now at the point where the law alows us to D, I know that not letting my anger and hurt take over was the best thing I did. I can look anyone in the eye and know that I was not a very angry bitter ex. If I was, our S4 will never know that.....
I have unloaded a bit here but what I wanted to get across is that this board and all the feedback from WAWs is really very helpful. You all share experience and comments freely with people you don't even know and you do touch other's lives. Thanks to all of you... with understanding comes peace.
-------- Me; 38 W; 34 1 4yr old S Married 4.5 yrs, together 9 yrs Bomb; 15 June 2007 Holiday together Sept 2008; My Dad dies Nov 2008; reconcliation fails Nov 2008
disclaimer- I have not read through this entire thread
I was once the lbs and now find myself in the position of the so called waw.
I've seen a few posts claiming that the was is the one who gave up and broke the promises made in m. What if you're just seeing it wrong? what if the LBS is the one who broke the promises and the was is the one who recognizes the break and despite trying to repair it eventually finds the lbs just isn't capable or willing to repair it so they decide that what's best for both in the end is to end the m?
Sure there are some was who are acting in pure selfishness but there are plenty who have tried and grown weary. Who eventually came to realize that the m was unhealthy and becoming a detriment to the children being raised in it. It doesn't take hitting or yelling to impact a child negatively. If mom is depressed and dad is a walking zombie but everyone tries to act like all is well for the kids that will eventually have a negative impact on them as well.
If it takes divorce to wake up a zombie then that's what it takes. Trouble is it should not have taken the true threat of divorce to wake you up.
You could be right. And that is acknowledged here and there are plenty of LBSs who realize at this point, when they become officially, the LBS, that it was their actions that started down this road. No one disagrees that COULD be the case....but not always.
what if the LBS is the one who broke the promises and the was is the one who recognizes the break and despite trying to repair it eventually finds the lbs just isn't capable or willing to repair it so they decide that what's best for both in the end is to end the m?
What type of promises would the LBS be breaking to justify D in your mind? I can agree if there was abuse, financial neglect, etc. But what about the WAS that just held in resentment over time, never had a discussion & just sent out "signals" that the LBS didn't get? This seems to be more of the case on this board. And why is it the WAS's job to decide what's best for BOTH partners? And for an entire family in most cases. You know the children typically want their parents together.
I still appreciate hearing the comments of the WAS to help us understand what is going on. I just still do not see the justification in this.
Me 36, Him 33 M 11yrs, T 15yrs S 8, D 7 ILYBINILWY - 1/09 H moves out 10/09 D to be final SOON I HOPE!
Sorry if I'm doing the wrong thing the wrong way, but...
I would really benefit from women's / WAW's point of view re: my sitch. I'm over at Newcomers (don't know how to link to it).
Thanks
Gardener,
Check out my post "Hello Kittyfish and Sandi2!" You may find some of the feedback useful.
M: 41 W: 39 S: 11 S: 10 D: 4 1st contact w/OM: 1/19/09 EA began: 2/14/09 EA discovered: 3/1/09 I file for D 8/25/09 to protect myself _______________________________
What type of promises would the LBS be breaking to justify D in your mind? to love, honor, cherish I can agree if there was abuse, financial neglect, etc. does emotional neglect count in your book? But what about the WAS that just held in resentment over time, never had a discussion & just sent out "signals" that the LBS didn't get? But what if the was didn't keep quiet about it? what if it was made very clear how the actions or inactions of the current lbs were destroying the r? This seems to be more of the case on this board. I'll give you that there are an awful lot of oblivious people on this board. How can you not know when your r is suffering? And why is it the WAS's job to decide what's best for BOTH partners? it's not but it's also not the job of the waw to just stay in a unhealthy r just to keep the lbs content in their bubble either. And for an entire family in most cases. if the m is unhealthy the kids will suffer one way or another from that too. You know the children typically want their parents together. and I'd be willing to bet most sane was wanted that too but the cost began to be too high and honestly not worth it for the kids in the long run.
I still appreciate hearing the comments of the WAS to help us understand what is going on. I just still do not see the justification in this. not everything needs justification. Sometimes a waw is out of her mind but that doesn't mean we all are. Some of us are actually trying to do what's best for everyone involved believe it or not. [/quote]
disclaimer- I have not read through this entire thread
I was once the lbs and now find myself in the position of the so called waw.
I've seen a few posts claiming that the was is the one who gave up and broke the promises made in m. What if you're just seeing it wrong? what if the LBS is the one who broke the promises and the was is the one who recognizes the break and despite trying to repair it eventually finds the lbs just isn't capable or willing to repair it so they decide that what's best for both in the end is to end the m?
Sure there are some was who are acting in pure selfishness but there are plenty who have tried and grown weary. Who eventually came to realize that the m was unhealthy and becoming a detriment to the children being raised in it. It doesn't take hitting or yelling to impact a child negatively. If mom is depressed and dad is a walking zombie but everyone tries to act like all is well for the kids that will eventually have a negative impact on them as well.
If it takes divorce to wake up a zombie then that's what it takes. Trouble is it should not have taken the true threat of divorce to wake you up.
LL
She promised to stay with me 'for better or for worse'...and she didn't. I promised to 'love, honor, and cherish' her...and I didn't. She decided that the pain of staying outweighted the pain of leaving. I wish she hadn't...but I understand that she felt like she had no other choice.
She did try, for years. I was an idiot.
It did take her leaving for me to become a better man and a better father and a better partner. It shouldn't have...but it did.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Not sure appropriate...I am a newcomer (2days) at the "newcomer board" and currently have a WAS but not so long ago was a WAW...though I never physically walked out I sure did mentally walk out. I am also a thinker when making a tough decision. Prior to determining my marriage was over (a decision made without consulting my H) the problems were lack of intimacy (not the sex kind), we were not doing things together...the weekends were spent with me cleaning house, doing laundry, paying bills, etc and then getting up on Monday mornings and doing the same thing week after week, over and over again, no deviation. When things got tough, whether with the kids, the finances, something breaking down, it was always me to the rescue. I became drained...felt like I was less than a woman and more on autopilot. I felt very unwanted, undesirable, and only paid attention to when someone else's world was falling apart and they needed something fixed. In short, I beleived that my H no longer loved me because if he did he would see that something was wrong and do something about it. I decided there had to be more to life than that. I never really talked about how I was feeling because everyone else's needs seemed far more important than mine, after all, we had a nice home, nice cars, nice kids and for all outward appearances a nice marriage...who was I to complain because I felt empty inside, I was the rock, the one who kept it all together and that was what seemed to be expected of me. At some point I did try to talk to my spouse...he listened when I said I needed something more...said he would try so he did a load of laundry every now and again or would run the vacuum...I thought I had articulated very well what I was looking for and so I repeated my issues and once again got the "I love you", "stick it out", "it will get better." It never did...that is what led me to believe I had no other choice but to leave...something kept holding me back from actually taking that final step though...I spent a long time trying to figure out what it was...finances, kids, 14 years...I did not know but I spent a lot of time thinking about it and what I realized was that I kept waiting for my H to prove to me he loved me...I spent a lot of time telling him what would make me feel better about us, things and I kept waiting on him to make a move but he did not...this re-enforced my belief that he just did not care and so I refused to do anything until he did. At some point I finally realized that he was not responsible for my happiness, I was and that lately I had been the picture of doom and gloom...who wants to hang out with someone like that. I also started thinking the way I preach...there are 2 sides to every story and somewhere in teh middle was the truth. The thing that kept me from leaving...love, simple as that...I love my H with all my heart and I just wanted it to get better so I set myself on a course to try and do that...but mostly working on me...I still did not make any real moves on him...thought I needed to feel better myself before I could actually amke a difference in our relationship. Somewhere in there however my H decided he wanted out...he has been gone 2 weeks now and it is killing me...if I had only had DR a few months ago...if only I had had my realizations a few months ago...if only, if only...that's not the way it turned out though...I got the ILYB...it hurts but I understand...do I beleive it can be turned around...yes in some ways, however he has said he wants to start seeing other women and that does throw a monkey wrench into it for me because he did cheat on me before and that, whether seperated or not may just be the catalyst for the D, at least for me...he says "at this point" "it's over", etc...that gives me a little hope but I feel like when you add another person into the mix it changes the dynamic...of course everything is going to be better with that person or person's and so that is just going to drag him further away...Our D (13) has been seeing a couselor...she self mutilates...has been for awhile. H & I went to her appointment together the other day to tell the C that we had seperated and our D was having a tough time...the other womaen thing was brought up and the C says that couples who have been together for as long as e have should not date until at least 2 years after the S...I agree...it's just like DR says...paraphrasing...doomed to repeat the same mistakes...this is a 3rd marriage for both of us...I don't want to start my life over again...I want to face the issues...actually I want to put the past behind us...remember why we fell in love in the first place and put as much time and energy into our relationship as we would our other relationships...
That's kind of my story...if you are one of those people still with your spouse...just give it time...patience...stop focusing on the past...you really don't want it to be the way it was do you? Maybe you will find your way back to each other...maybe you won't but I would start with a hard look at yourself...at the end of the day my H likely feels exactly the same way I did...unloved, unwanted, undesirable and while I may not be responsible for his happiness I sure could have done more to make him feel wanted but I got so wrapped up in blaming him for feeling inadequate, like a failure and just downright dowdy that I began to act that way...and so any move I made wouldn't have made a difference anyway...I needed to get myself together...yep, he is gone and he may do some things that I don't like (other women) but it is not going to stop me from GAL or the 180's...if it works out for us as a result that's great, if not then I am still a better person for it.
He is gone and he may do some things that I don't like (other women) but it is not going to stop me from GAL or the 180's...if it works out for us as a result that's great, if not then I am still a better person for it.
That's the best attitude to have once something like this happens. Good luck to you!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
I am a first time poster and have just finished DB myself. I must say I am following the same way of behaivior as mentioned. I am dont want to be too optimistic, but there are certainly positive signs. I won't let her read DB but she knows I am reading it. I am doing some positive 180's in my behavior patterns and it is doing wonderful things for me personally. Joining a fitness center, taking some me time, doing things for me that I should have always done.
I know there are no promises but things look better and its only been 10 day +/-.
I am always willing to listen and take advice or criticism...so go ahead everyone thats why I am here.
I would advise to keep your eyes open and your brain on... and above all else, work to better yourself without pulling others through the mud...I see a lot of that out here...Not so much therapy as just a bunch of name calling and hating.
I am a WAW. It's been 2 months since I moved out. Things spiralled out of hand pretty quickly for us. I always thought our relationship was fragile and it seems it crumbled so fast. I left because I got tired of my husband refusing to speak to me, being rude/mean, and making me feel like I lack something, that I'm not good enough. Not trying to play the victim here at all. I did things he didn't like and he did things I didn't like. The difference between us is that I always owned my half of the b.s. and will apologize to him. He cannot do the same. He even told me once that he will say and do things to hurt me and that my opinion doesn't mean anything to him. I told him several times that I did not like when he'd stonewall me and he continued to do it. This would last days, weeks, and the last time about 1 1/2 - 2 months. It's absolutely maddening being in your marital home with a spouse who won't speak a word to you or look at you. It broke me down so bad. Sometimes I wished he would hit me so I could just feel like he knew I existed. I know that's crazy but at least I would know that he knew I was there. I kept asking for counseling, he always refused, and finally went one time, & didn't go back. He tried talking to me twice before I left but at that point I just couldn't do it anymore. I'm so exhausted with crying and feeling numb, like a ghost. A week before I left I came home to find him packing boxes and he said he was moving out. He didn't actually leave but did it to scare me. The next day I went to put my rings on and he'd taken my engagement ring and hidden it from me, saying I'd never get it back. Little games like this. A week later I moved out. He called the cops on me saying I'd stolen from him. I wasn't able to get all my things out on time. He called me and said, Darling, come get the rest of your stuff. I drove by and he'd thrown all my belongings out on the front lawn. It's so sad because I wish still that he could call me and say he knows how he upset me and will do counseling.
Hi; I have posted here before I was a WAW; my husband has let me know that due to his recognizing finally that our marriage is failing; that it must ALL my fault and and thus I have now been labeled a WAW. I moved out a year ago and he has refused all counseling or talking about our marriage; he has told me that if I would "just do what he says" that our marriage would be wonderful. I know what submission and respect is; my husband will not submit to any other authority and has no respect for me.
I have tried EVERYTHING and even DB did not get much of his attention. I only left after YEARS of counseling, verbal and spiritual abuse by him and UNWILLINGNESS on his part to see himself and me clearly and love me as "Christ loves the church". I can neither "make this marriage" or break it all by myself>>>he has pulled down our household and I tried to keep it up for years; if "coming to my senses" means that I am a WAW...so be it.
M -12 Years 1 9 y son (w/me) S-Nov 2009 (and LOVING it; will NEVER go back!) D-soon
She promised to stay with me 'for better or for worse'...and she didn't. I promised to 'love, honor, and cherish' her...and I didn't. She decided that the pain of staying outweighted the pain of leaving. I wish she hadn't...but I understand that she felt like she had no other choice. She did try, for years. I was an idiot.
It did take her leaving for me to become a better man and a better father and a better partner. It shouldn't have...but it did.
If any LB spouse would see and recognize themselves as having been LB toward their WAW; then there could be healing and hope for the marriage. I have tried it all and LB spouse contends that "he has loved me the best that he can"... then does that mean that I have to LIVE with his inability; unwillingness and pride as "love"? I can't and I won't.
M -12 Years 1 9 y son (w/me) S-Nov 2009 (and LOVING it; will NEVER go back!) D-soon
May I ask what interested you in DBing? I have a WAW that I am trying the last resort with some success, but she is not ready for counseling or "self-help" books/scripture I have read and attempted to share with her. She tells me she needs space so that is what I am giving. Just curious as to how you got interested in DBing. I was a workaholic until my WAW had an affair then I changed my entire job to be home more, then she told me it was too late.
Hi NGUH, I see you have only posted once, so I'll make this short & sweet. you can post more on my thread if you have questions.
I first came to DB because of the article While your Spouse Decides that our MC gave us from this website. I wanted to know it's origin and then once I started reading.. I wanted to know what tricks he would use to 'get me back', if he came looking here.
Yes, my XH was a work-aholic too. He continued to chose that over MC or IC.
Making short-term changes just to 'get them back' and not for the good of who you are & what you believe in as a person, does not get them back for real, as those changes are 'lies'. We (WAS) watch, we test, we re-evaluate your 'changes' in light of your (LBS) words.
We also believe none of what you say and only 1/2 of what you do.
I hope you are making the changes you need to make that are healthy for you and hopefully that will be the kinds of changes that will fit for your wife to decide to come back into a new R with you and rebuild trust & stability from which love can grow.
Peace Bridge
Divorced 03/2010 Mom to two amazing kids
Taking the road less traveled because those encountered on the way may be just as unique.
Married for 30 years, 2 wonderful grown children unfortunately 16 years ago I betrayed my wife. We worked thru it and have had an incredibly happy and sucessful life. 4 weeks ago out of the blue, my wife said whe was going to file for divorce because of this past mistake. We had been incredibly happy together and this has devatated me. It happened so unexpectadly and suddenly and it has taken everyone by suprise. I and the kids anr heartbroken.
She has not yet informed her family of this which I think is a good thing. She is cold and distant when we do speak. We went to 2 counselling sessions and she said she will not go anymore. She was not participating she just kept saying she is done and she no longer wants to be married.
We have now been living apart for the last month and I am expecting to receive D papers any day. I do not know if she has someone else...she has gotten in great shape and been hitting the tanning booths....and looks great. I want to believe there isnt
I groveled at first but have read DR and am trying to get a life and do a no contact (except when asked a question) 180.
Is there any hope or advice?
Me: 53 W: 50 Married:30 years Bomb Dropped: 3/8/2011 Wants D, ILYBINILWY S21, D25 both out of home Now seperated Nothing filed yet I made mistake 16 yrs ago Very happy since..til 3/8
May I suggest you either post in NC or in the MLC forum. There is a lot more traffic on those two boards.
If you could post more details such as your ages, and background it helps us get more of a feel for what's going on in your sitch.
To be honest, the suddenness of this raises red flags. How well did she plan her exit from the marital home?
I'm going to tell you that most of the time you will find there is an OP involved. I do not tell you this to hurt you, but you need to be prepared for the possibility.
Hang in there Smitty. You will receive great advice and a place where we all understand.
I too am sorry you find yourself here. If you haven't talked to one of the Divorce Busting coaches, that is what I would suggest. They are fantastic in helping you come up with a plan of how to be approaching/interacting with your spouse in a way that is most likely to get through to her, and to keep you strong in the process. Take good care of yourself.
Karen, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 karen@divorcebusting.com
Give me a call if you'd like to schedule an appointment to speak with a Divorce Busting® Coach.
my sicth! need help My husband and I has been separeted for about 5 monthes ago. basically i caught Him talking to a girl from facebook and He denied at first, but after a while of confronting him he admitted it.They have not meet personally yet,but they have been talking our marital problems ect.My H told me that they are just friends and "she" has trying to" convince" HIM to fix our marriage issues.My H admitted told me that he likes the girl and if" we" will be succesfully get divorce or if I HAV'NOT caught Him,He will date that girl..SO it seems he ha having emotionallY affair..but He said THEY decided to stop talking to each other now.,becuase what they have done really hurt me ( but i dont believe them)And probably he had plan the divorce me long time ago. but He said to me it was'nt an affair on Hes own discription, He said that he knew it was wrong but he just wants to find Hes feelings for me,of coarse what He had expect that wilL come out from it,..He told me that He got the answer and that He can be more happy with the other woman.. it hurts lot to hear from someone you loved for about 6 year and we have a wonderful daughter at 3..i feel betrayed,neglected and have difficulties to move on..and basically my anger will come once in awhile.. i have been praying a lot and spend time with my friends. the worst thing is,before he moved out He already chatted many girls from different countries eventhough i am at home and i can see evrything what he is doing,, he dont care at all,and after a month of chatting he travelled to africa and meet the a girl there.." now He called now it GIRLFRIEND.. the things that makes me upset is He show a picture to our daugther,and let her talk to the new gf. I dont understand what he is doing ,is this normal to person who wants to get out from their marriage? It sound stupid . We are not legally separated yet but for Him everything is over..i am so close of giving up hope that will be reconciled..i havn't started a conversation Him for a long time.. we only have conversation about our child,and recently we were kind of upset with each other because he wants to change the custody we have made before, and i think its wrong, included that our child is not going to church when She is with my H.i tried to ignore Him just to protect my self and not having a false hope.. it seems like He is really move on,and i am pretending that I am OK about Hes decission about divorce though its killing me..I have make some changes at home since He moved out and it makes Him shock and attending parties once in a while.He has been telling me to date someone know so i will be emotionally ok.and itS hurtING me! why he is doing it?and he is very angry to me and to my family! and i dont understand why?,he said its because they are started wars against Him not they are not,,They are trying to help us to figure everything out..by the way my H deleted all our common friends in facebook, and I am bloked,, we have been to counseling but its not helping because he said He alreaday made up Hes mind..and the counsilor told me,that my H its not listiging to anybody now,He just want to listen TO HIMSELF. maybe my letter is a bit confusing,, but you are all very welcome to ask question,.i really need your help how save my marriage.Like what should i do to calm Him anger down,How to show Him that i do still love him without showing Him any desperation.,aS I can see from him that He wants me to say YES to everything He wants, sometimes its not even legally right? I don't know what to do anymore an I am very tired with all the anger stuff that has bee thrown on my face.. He has been telling me a lot of very mean or not nice words ,but i tried not to response back.. sometimeS it is just too much,but and i think my husband is good person but he is just lost somewhere else through life experienced along the way,,He is the one who initiated the separation papers by the way
I am in your shoes as well. I walked away, and thought I was done. Once he stopped crying, begging and moved on with his life, I fell back in love with him. I pushed him into his married boss' arms (i know, right?)where he has stayed the last 4 months. I understand your anguish.
Here's the thing...I'm assuming that him saying no to you made you realise how much you love him, right? And that love is greater than anything you have ever felt, right again? Keep a part of that alive, and tuck it down in your pocket where it is safe. Now walk.
Focus on yourself and getting your life together. It doesn't mean being anry or rude, or even having an affair. DO NOT use someone as an emotonial band aid. And you know what? I gurantee that 180 will work on him just like it worked on you.
And if not, then you have your pride. Follow the DB techniques, but be aware of this: if things are meant to be, they will be. There is no point in torturing yourself if in the end he's gonna leave you anyway. So you might as well love yourself and focus on moving forward. With or without him, tomorrow will come. Don't you want to feel stronger and happier tomorrow? And the next, and the next...?
Me-31 H-24 D3,D2 M 4 yrs WAW(me) 12/2011 role reversal 03/2012 (H)PA 3-6/2012 (H)D filed 6/2012 D deemed "inactive", closed 8/2012 I've moved on 9/2012
I hate it when people tell me this, but I'm going to say it to you~you are a beautiful person and your s is a fool to walk away. I know how hard it is to be the loving mature person in spite of what the was does. This has been my stance for the past 6 weeks. I have come here to vent anger though!
I feel that you have a greater sence of self worth/respect. It shows in your lack of tolerance in regards to s disregard for the family unit/children. Keep up the stregnth my friend. She has helped you grow into an amazing person;if not for her, then for someone else.
Me-31 H-24 D3,D2 M 4 yrs WAW(me) 12/2011 role reversal 03/2012 (H)PA 3-6/2012 (H)D filed 6/2012 D deemed "inactive", closed 8/2012 I've moved on 9/2012
So I have a question related to that: is it then wrong to suggest that the WAS look at this website? I was going to forward a link to this site to my husband who left 4 months ago and is seeing someone. I'm thinking maybe not now.
M-59 H-58 2 S, 1 D 2 Gr. Ch. T 20 YRS M 17 YRS ILYBINILWY 4/21/12 Caught H and OW 5/25/12 H Left 6/5/12
"Do not regret growing older...It is a privilege denied to many."
So I have a question related to that: is it then wrong to suggest that the WAS look at this website? I was going to forward a link to this site to my husband who left 4 months ago and is seeing someone. I'm thinking maybe not now.
NO! Bad idea.
It would be like giving the opposing team your playbook before the biggest game of the year.
I am a WAS who has changed her mind. I don't know what to do!!! My H is living with his parents in another state. He will communicate with me by email and IM only if I initiate. Going dark does not work with him.
Should I not be DB if I am the one who ended it?
Me: 44 H: 48 M: 4 yrs My EA: 2010 & 2012 Me arrested for DV: 10/28/11 H left 1st time: 10/28/11 Reconciled after I pursued: 12/21/11 H left 2nd time: 12/23/12 Kids from OR: S16, S10, S8
My personal thread hasn't posted yet. Going through a roller coaster of emotions right now. The two biggest are regret and loneliness. For most of the 4 year marriage I viewed my H as an overgrown adolescent and me the suffering parent. I never took his complaints about me seriously. I thought I was doing enough by supporting him financially while he pretending to be too depressed to work a job. He is a recovering addict so I patted myself on the back for "forgiving" him....but did I really?
My main challenge at this point is to restrain myself from chasing him. I feel such overwhelming guilt over forcing him to leave and the cruddy way I treated him.
My problem is that I was "dark" in the marriage so I am confused if that's the right strategy now. I would totally ignore him. I would pretend he wasn't in the room. I would stay up late on the computer to avoid going to bed with him. It got to a point that he quit saying good night and then I got mad that he quit!
Not making excuses but it seems that distance and darkness pushes him away.
How do I create interest and desire for contact with me without smothering him?
I'm really looking at my goals. Obviously the first one is to get him home by his BD (March). But I also realize that his love language is words of affirmation (and as a man he craves admiration) and this was the major thing I denied him. How do I know this is his language? Because it's the one he gives to me the most. It's not my language though! Mine is quality time (which is what I always gave to him through long marathon conversations). He always felt drained while I felt connected.
Since he is living out of state, doesn't want to talk on the phone, and will only communicate by email or IM if I initiate.....not sure what to do. In the past month I've had 4 contacts with him. The last 2 were IM's that lasted over an hour. He made complimentary statements about me and signed off with XXXOOO and said he forgave me already. I haven't contacted him for 3 days. I have marked on the calendar 30 days from now as the soonest I can reach out to him.
Suggestions?
Me: 44 H: 48 M: 4 yrs My EA: 2010 & 2012 Me arrested for DV: 10/28/11 H left 1st time: 10/28/11 Reconciled after I pursued: 12/21/11 H left 2nd time: 12/23/12 Kids from OR: S16, S10, S8
Hi Lampstand. What is it you want to do? What's the rest of the story?
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I have realized that I do NOT want to live without my H. Realized that I do love him but I cannot share that love with him for reasons that I don't know exactly right now.
I keep hearing that DB isn't for the WAW. I don't really know what I should be doing. Do I ask him to come back? I'm not finding the answer. I'm afraid if I stay away from him too long with no contact he's going to think that I was serious about the split and that he will move on. I don't want that. I want him to come home and rebuild our M with me.
Me: 44 H: 48 M: 4 yrs My EA: 2010 & 2012 Me arrested for DV: 10/28/11 H left 1st time: 10/28/11 Reconciled after I pursued: 12/21/11 H left 2nd time: 12/23/12 Kids from OR: S16, S10, S8
@Lampstand - being LBS, I'm guessing he's not trusting you right now, as I am my WAW. Keep your communications positive, don't pressure or hound, and give him time to come back from the hurt.
In the meantime, keep working on yourself; you can live without him, you just don't want to.
Refreshing to see "the other side", thank you for joining!
LBS M 33Y to ACOA ILYBNILWY WAW 8DEC12 Found Michele's Books 10DEC12 Wrong counselor, on my own for now.
I stumbled across this site recently after 5 months of separation from my H. Need a little advice. I am hoping it's not too late to apply the DB concepts, now, but with such a rough start, I'm worried I've done too much damage already.
I discovered my H's affair in early Feb, tried staying (and pushing for reconciliation--which was wrong, I know now) through late April, and then I moved out in May b/c I could see I was getting nowhere with him and simply couldn't take it any more, psychologically.
I left him b/c: the marital home felt like a tomb, being there was really depressing me, sleeping in that bed was killing me, I wouldn't be able to afford the house on my own in the long run, and I needed a fresh environment. I am happy in my new place but don't want a D. H also hasn't asked for a D. Yet. But the affair continues and there's no relief in sight.
I don't feel like a WAS, even though I was the one who left. I feel like an LBS who decided to move to another house for peace of mind.
For almost 7 months, up until last week, I have been breaking every DB rule in the book. I have resolved to change my ways, but is it too late?
Me 47, H 39 D 13, S 11 M: 17 years T: 19 years H's PA began: Oct 2012 Bomb: 02/13 Moved to MP: May 2013
I too was the WAW who changed her mind. I was absolutely certain and move 2700 miles away, but something happened I had an epiphany. I had to do much soul searching and when I did tell him I wanted to reconcile he said he wasn't closed to the idea but not entirely open to it. I have been reading and trying not to pursue. I don't know if it is working too soon to tell. I know he loves me because he has told me. I am now moving back to be within the same city and hopefully work on a reconciliation. He said he is dating others and wants to continue to do so. I am allowing that to just happen because I did give him the green light when I walked away, hopefully nothing serious will come from his dating. I don't what to do now, how much contact, how much is too much, what to say what do? My mind is all a flutter with emotions which I am desperately trying not to show him how desperately I want to be with him again. I made all the wrong mistakes and want to stop making them. I know he is hurt and confused and dealing with his own emotions right now and me adding pressure will only confuse him more and push him out the door. Some that know what I am trying to do, think I should pursue more and try to convince him but I don't believe this is the appropriate position, he will either come to it or he won't. At this point I am just trying to focus on me and work on myself and getting on with a life that just might not include him. Trying to stay hopeful and keep focused are difficult but if I want my husband back I need to do the required work on me that will make that happen, because even if we do reconcile it cannot be the same relationship as before.
I have read bits of both books online and am waiting for my own copies of the books to arrive at the library. Wishing I'd found this goldmine back in Feb when we were still living in the same house!
My long-term goal is to be together again when both kids have graduated from high school--I've got seven years. I am a very patient person.
But I'm the one who moved out, and from what I've read here . . . that's not good. I should've stayed and started DBing him right after the bomb dropped. Instead, I begged and pleaded (first) and freaked out when he wouldn't stop seeing the OW. Maybe he would've left, anyway, eventually, but maybe not. I don't know. I only know I couldn't stand to live in that house with him, knowing he was with the OW every chance he got. I felt a powerful need to flee. So I fled. I regret that now, even though I AM much happier in my own house, and even the kids like it better here. We are a 5-minute walk from him, so they can go back and forth easily. They stay with him on the weekends, mostly.
I guess I can tell myself I did a MAJOR 180 by moving out and no longer being there to try (and fail) to please him. But I worry about the out-of-sight-out-of-mind thing. A lot.
Me 47, H 39 D 13, S 11 M: 17 years T: 19 years H's PA began: Oct 2012 Bomb: 02/13 Moved to MP: May 2013
Yes, but I feel like I am still doing everything wrong. We did talk and he said he did not want to get my hopes up. We did end up spending the night together not sure if that is wrong or not, but the next time I saw him he was keeping his distance but he did ask me to stay and watch some of our favorite tv shows that he had recorded. I also noticed that he had kept the cake toppers and the goblets from our wedding and had them on display. Trying not to read too much into that either.
I am just trying to keep things light not make demands, staying focused on me and trying to imagine a life without him. We did have a funny situation we had gone to lunch and the cashier asked us if we were together or separate we both started laughing and he said, "That is a very interesting question...inside joke." He later reiterated that he did not want to be married now, and did not want to get my hopes up, so I am just keeping my distance.
I have been reading the Dbing books and trying to keep things light and not pressured. I need to practice not contacting him and letting him initiate contact and leaving before he requests it give it a little mystery. The hardest part is even though I am the WAW I still feel him blaming me for everything and not accepting any responsibility. I guess this really isnt necessary but to be both the bad person and be thought of as the person who is 100% at fault really [censored] not matter how much I know this isn't true. ~Iva
Thank you for asking, several reasons actually; First each of us were going through a MLC at the same time.
Our biggest issue was, he has a close friend (she was both of our friend) told him I wanted to have an affair (she was having an affair). She and I obviously had a falling out because of this betrayal, which he said he saw as simple little issue except at the time he confronted me with her statement. This simple statement caused many issues and fights.
This "friend" would drag him into our disagreements by copying and pasting letters, emails etc of my efforts to resolve these issues to keep peace in my house. I even begged her to resolve the issues she had with me with me so that he wasn't stressed about it but she could not help herself I guess.
She also was way too involved in our relationship and made her opinions known about how she felt about me and our marriage. She would constantly manipulate facts, caused confusion. He defended her actions, comments etc. I suddenly felt very alone I didn't have his support as a husband as he didn't have my back and I just couldn't fight it anymore. I felt he didn't care what my feelings were (losing a personal friend, actually 2 him and her, she drug nearly all of our friends into this falling out. I tried to walk away, but just when things would be calm she would find some minor to keep the drama going. That said I am sure I was constantly reacting to panic and stress over the situation and certainly didn't handle it well
Other reasons, he had been pretty checked out for sometime. He didn't feel I contributed enough and frequently told me he felt everything was my fault. He couldn't "remember" details of things like asking me for a divorce at Christmas, all he could remember was I left at Christmas not why or that I had been texting and calling to try and work it out. Many examples of his "forgetting details". Too many of his friends blatent disrespect like screaming horrible names in my face and him not defending me, same person came to my house shoved a camera in my face and wished I would die, he blamed me. I tried to tell him that if they don't respect me they don't respect him either. Some of his "friends" created lots and lots of lies and rumors that he knew the truth but believed them because they were saying it. After a while I got tired of being the target for everything that was wrong and walking on eggshells. I became very despondent really didn't care about anything because I was doing it all wrong. I asked him to go to counseling and he made excuses so I started going and she encouraged me to leave.
To answer you second question I never wanted to walk away, I told him that I didnt feel I could be in "this" marriage anymore, but I didnt' get the opportunity to discuss it beyond that he just said "fine" went downstairs and sent me an email saying he wanted to get the divorce over as quickly as possible.
I knew I wanted things to change didn't know how, I tried to pretend that everything was fine but it wasn't because I thought this is what he wants and it would make him happy. He says now that he wanted me to come and talk to him, but I didn't hear or see any indication that he wanted to find a way to work it out, possibly I wasn't reading the signs either. Now he doesn't want to anymore so I guess I was right I suppose.
Is there anyone out there who has good advice about Sex? I can't seem to find anything on this specific issue. My H tells me he still doesn't see us together and wants to explore a relationship with this OW but still wants to have sex with me and wants to spend time together being friends. He said he would like to see me every wednesday which I equate to dating etc...but I think he is viewing it as sex with the ex. I don't know if having sex is a good thing or a bad thing. I know that sex is very important to him and how he connects but he is having sex with the OW. Am I just filling in until the OW comes to visit?
He says he doesn't want to file the divorce ppwk because he says he doesn't have the $$ which I told him that if that is the only reason then that can be remedied, but he also listed off other reasons like he still loves me, isn't ready....nothing that makes me go ok we are back at working on our relationship but I am not sure if I am only hearing what I want either.
He also said that he didn't see us ever getting back together again but then he said he didn't know where we would be in 1, 2, 3 or 4 years from now.
Eric I could use all the help I can get. I was a WAW and realized that I want my H back. At first he was sending me all kinds of mixed messages, but at this point he is involved with someone else now and says he doesn't ever see us getting back together again. He then tells me he isn't in any hurry to file the divorce papers because he cannot afford it and then lists off several reasons why he isn't ready, most of them selfish. I did tell him that if he waned to get a divorce the "cost" could be remedied and should not be a factor if he is indeed ready to divorce. He at first wanted to have wife Wednesdays but when he told me about the OW I pulled back and decided that I would only see him on Sunday's (we do a show) and no pursue him. At this point we are living separately and I have very little contact with him. He doesn't respond to texts, email, phn etc. This is killing me and I am trying to practice patience and DB but I feel incredibly lost and alone as everyone (friends and family) are upset that I would #1 ask for a divorce and #2 ask to reconcile. I am trying to work on me and become stable again. I just don't know when to throw in the towel or how long I should stay dark. When I was at his house he still has our wedding pictures, cake topper and our goblets out on display even though he doesn't have to, but then right beside his robe is the OW robe. I am lost and still trying to believe.
)
I agree with your statement. I do feel "safe" here most of the time. I think...my 2 cents... a lot of LBS post here...to get feed back from the few of us WAWs that are open and honest. I don't feel the moderators give feedback here near as much as they do on other forums...again my 2 cents...I think most of the LBS's just want to understand or get a read on WTF their S is doing and why...so they post here...there are not to many of us WAW's that are really open and give feedback...at least on this forum...I think there may be 2or 3 that I have seen. Thanks for coming over to our little group and trying to help...much appreciated!!
When he left he said "we would for sure be talking, that we would see each other again, and that maybe we would work things out down the road." UH? Hello? I have tried and standing there watching him load the moving truck in a matter of a couple hours without talking with me I am left to think HUH? DATE? He will be "seeing me" and "talking with me later?" Does he know how much he has hurt me? I just want to stay focused....strong and not panic that "I am not worthy or loveable." I have not heard from him since Wednesday morning and I am not calling....no, I am NOT calling.
