Willing to be disturbed...

[believing_isaiah43]

{{{{edie}}}}

I'm not here much, but check in on my friends when I can. I Sooooooooooooooo feel you in your sitch, b/c much of yours is mine. I {{heart}} you and think you're FAB. Do not doubt that, regardless of the sex thing. Easier said than done I realize. We'll be at 24 months on July 10th (sad that I know the exact date). sigh.

Not much time today, but wanted to pop in and say Hi, and thanks for the Secret list. I need some of these things tattooed on my forehead.

[ediemarie]

Hi Ladies - thanks for swinging by. I'm glad you enjoyed the list. I like it too. Not doing too well at abiding by it, but it does provide some food for thought...

------------------------------------------
So, we kind of had the talk - not really the way I wanted it to go, but it's out there.

The background to Friday night's talk:
In November, H bought a new car (and by new I mean, new to him, not at all a new car). He bought it outright from a private seller. A car he has wanted for a very long time. The very next day (on his birthday) he got in an accident in that car. He was devestated. It needed tons of body work done to it and *we* had just bought it - spent just about everything we had in savings to pay for it out right so we wouldn't have a car loan.

The estimate to get it fixed came to about 4,000. That was more than we had, and more than we wanted to pay to fix it. So H asks the guy fixing it if he could find used parts to fix the car - car guy says sure. So in the meantime while the car guy has been looking for used parts and claiming to be fixing the car, I have been walking home from work (H takes me in the morning). I walk to the train station (7 minute walk) take the train home (20 minute ride) and then walk home (7 minute walk). Not that big of a deal and at first I was happy to do it. H has been driving *my* car and it is mine as I pay all the bills on it (our finances are separated). About 1 month ago I got really fed up with walking. It's cold here, I'm resenting paying for a car I can't drive, etc. etc. On top of that, the car guy couldn't find the necessary parts, H wasn't on top of calling him regularly, and I felt like I was the one getting screwed. So, I told H that I was no longer going to take the train. It was becoming a problem for me and he needed to figure out what to do about his car - junk it, make it road worthy without fixing ALL of it, or we'd find a way to pay the 4,000. His choice, but he wasn't going to use my car anymore. H was ok with this. And he's been renting a car during the week ever since. He said he understood, etc. BTW, we still don't have the car back. On Friday, H heard from the car guy that car will be done on Monday (tomorrow - yippie!) It will cost a little over 2,000 for all the repairs to be done (minus painting the car - that will be done at a later date). Fine. So H announces to me Friday night that he wants to wait until pay day (Thursday) to pick up the car - as we don't have the $$ to cover it until then. He said he will not pay for another rental, as it's a waste of money, and doesn't want to put it on a credit card (and neither do I, really) and I'm going to have to walk/take the train.

I refused.
H got mad.
R fight begins.

I don't remember all of the details (there was alcohol involved), but this is the gist of what was said:
H:
- if he were the one that had to walk/take the train he wouldn't mind doing so. He just projected that feeling on me and didn't think I was serious when I said I didn't want to walk anymore, because he wouldn't mind doing it.
- doesn't think that we (read me) will ever be able to communicate effectively without the help of a marriage counselor
- he doesn't believe he has anything to change about himself that a counselor could help with
- he won't have sex because he doesn't feel like it. why doesn't he feel like it? He believes I will reject him.
- while he thinks he may only be able to overcome this "fear" with a counselor's help, he doesn't think he has enough of a problem to see one
- this is the same reason he will not dialogue with me - when asked if there was anything I've done to make him feel this way, he said that my feelings make him feel badly
- thinks we have made real progress over the last few months, hasn't felt this connected to me in a long time - this argument has the potential to make all of that disappear

Me:
- I would not reject him sexually
- MC will work *if* we both go in with an open mind and are open to changing (he is not open to changing)
- I think things are getting better too, but would like to be physcially connected (h said that will come with time)

So, not sure about pushing the MC thing. If he isn't interested in opening up and delving in, I don't see the point. I'm not going to pay 150/session to hear him stay silent or hear myself talk. Also, not sure about walking for the rest of the week. I really don't want to, but we could use the money that he would spend toward a rental on the car itself. That would be helpful. I think if he had come out and *asked* if I would mind walking this week, rather than assuming I would be fine with it, I would have been better with it. It's the fact that he just acts entitled to my car that burns me up. It makes me want to dig my heels in and say no. I think I'll address this with him today - calmly.

I'm noticing a pattern here - H gets an idea in his head, acts on it, and leaves me to deal with the consequences without a conversation. I need to address this. It's not working for me. (This has happened with sex, traveling, walking home for the last 3 months, and now walking home this week.) These unilateral decisions are killing me!

Phew - that was a long post!!
Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

[ediemarie]

I figured out a way to pay for H's car this morning. When he came home from church I told him that I had figured out how we could swing it, without putting the charges on a credit card. H offered to rent a car again, but the plan wouldn't work if he did. I'll have to take the train Mon, Tues and Wednesday. It shouldn't be so bad - I can do 3 days of it. H was very pleased that we can afford to do this with cash - the car guy will give us a discount if we pay cash, so that's helpful too, albeit shady.

I also explained, extremely calmly, about the unilateral decision thing. H's first reaction was, "I thought you liked it when I made the decisions in our R." To which I responded, "sure, the decisions like where we're going for dinner." h laughed - so that was good, because I meant it to be funny and light. THen he said, "I'll make sure to include you on future decisions about stuff - I'm going to try to not just assume stuff." And then he said, "Oh and by the way, I've decided I'm taking you to lunch at the Brew House." So that was nice - really cute. A nice resolution. I didn't belabor the point, and he seems to understand my POV. He offered again to rent a car, but it really is ok that I walk. I don't mind doing it when it's my decision and not dictated to me.

Em

[Sara]

EM,

I don't know what to say. The points your H makes in the fight show that he is only interested in pleasing himself. I don't know how you can get in there and make your feelings important to him. He won't dialogue because it makes him feel bad to hear how you feel. And he doesn't need to change. Really, these things don't go together. The point is that he does need to change because what he does hurts you. If he is not hiding something with these paltry excuses, then I don't see a way to reach any conclusion but that this man is too self-centered to have a loving relationship with anyone but himself.

[Sara]

Actually, I do have some advice. You had a good conversation on the subject and brought up a lot of issues that look impossible to reconcile. So now is the time to pull out the Conflict Management Technique and follow the steps. Who knows? It just might work.

[cat03]

btdt about the car stich, I hope the car is ready and that you have your car back soon))))))
Rejection, the #1 fear in a men, it doesnt' surprise me that that's some of the reason he doesnt' want to ML.

[sgctxok]

Hi edie et al...

Could you help a Newbie named Catherine(something)?

Thanks a bunch!

[ediemarie]

Hi All - thanks for coming by and your feedback/support. I appreciate it.

Feeling kinda powerless and discouraged today. I know some of this is related to the actual physical state of my home -everything needs to be cleaned, picked up, polished, organized etc. I can't get myself motivated to do it. I hate that. And it's related to school work - unorganized and behind the eight ball there too - I hate that. Just a plain old negative nelly today - I hate that, too. I need to change my thinking majorly - a brisk walk home and a long to-do list may just do that lol.

In thinking over the weekend, Friday night's conversation wasn't done under the best circumstances. An alcohol induced conversation/argument can never be a positive thing. I did my share of throwing painful zingers toward H so I'm not surprised at all that he was in "protect myself" mode. Why would anyone want to be giving to someone that is throwing barbs? In the calm after the storm, and after yesterday's peaceful conversation, H has been trying to see things from my POV. He even offered two more times to just rent a car for this week so I don't have to walk. (To which I replied, I'm all set to walk, but if you want to rent one, than do so. If he rents one though, we can't afford to pay for the repairs in cash which will ultimately lead to more of a money mess.)

H and I just work towards results differently. I'm a doer. He's a thinker. He needs to think less, act more (as I see it). I need to do less, think more (as he sees it). We're both correct. I need to learn to manage my anger through conversing about things as soon as they come up. I need to learn to embrace the awkward, difficult, conversation rather than let things fester and boil over. I mean, how long have I been posting about this sex thing? If that's what I'm posting about, my internal dialogue is much more than what is on here - yikes. I should have addressed that with H in a reasonable manner. I still should. It could be as easy as, "Hey H, we spoke briefly at an inopportune time about our sex-life. What do you think we can do to fix it?" That alone would be step in the right direction for me considering that I just keep blaming him for us not having one - could I be partly to blame???

One positive is that I know H is afraid of rejection. That is a good piece of information. My challenge now is to accept any and all "passes" by H in a positive, playful manner. H did say that he believes he will get over that in time. That each positive interaction we have helps. And I do believe that. I can see it. We're more touchy now than we have been in years - so that really is a positive and that did come about without a conversation and just by being together.

All for now. Happy Monday everyone!

I'm off to make some to-do lists. I have got to get myself organized!!!

[cat03]

I know some of this is related to the actual physical state of my home -everything needs to be cleaned, picked up, polished, organized etc.

you must be talking about my home right? :P It also gets to me to see the place a mess, it really gets to me (even worse when it's done while i'm at work and H is off and kids dont' pick up their mess, its been a sore spot between us always).
Anyways.... Begin with a corner, looking at the whole thing overwhelms you and makes you want to scream,so, pick a corner/section of your house, splurge on something (I gave up on the old sponge mop,I bought a wet jet thingie to clean my kitchen floor, much faster and no need to wring the sponge!)

Good points to remind yourself when you are about to get in attack mode, I'll quote you here:
* Why would anyone want to be giving to someone that is throwing barbs? * no one wants to loving if the other person is demanding it.

*What do you think we can do to fix it?* the word 'we' is the key here, good point

If you have one around your area, go to the Container Store, oh!!!! I salivate there, lol, it should give you some incentive and ideas to get new organizational gear, he he.

[Concerned_Listener]

Edie,
Your H sounds fairly defensive. I don't like his response to your request to have your car back. I'm concerned about his failure to accept that he has something to work on in marital therapy.

I'm wondering in general about how respectful he is to you.

CL