Thanks for posting whitneypinch! I really have no intention of leaving, though I guess it could come to that. I am much more inclined to try to be the one that stays. The kid issue would be very challenging (or something probably would have been done long ago), but the example they are seeing now isn't healthy, so I am not sure it would be worse. I would not expect separating to make me feel better, but it might be the only way to move forward at all, this has been a long term stalemate.
(((((Lisa)))))(((((Ingrid))))) whitneypinch, if there was a symbol for a handshake, I'd give you one of those!
Thursday night I hardly saw W, between her getting home from work, me making a soccer practice run, and her getting to bed because she has a nasty cold that has been lingering, and getting worse lately. I saw her a lot Friday. She went with her mom to fetch her dad from the hospital Friday morning/early afternoon, and helped them get situated at home. They live in the next neighborhood over, which is really convenient. Anyway, she had called the doc's office Friday morning. I had a previously scheduled appointment that afternoon to go over some labs. So they offered to let her share the appointment. So we sat in the doc's office for two hours waiting to get in (this doc is very good, very thorough, and always runs very late), reading magazines. Then we had S18 bring S's 10 and 13 into town and we ate at a Chinese buffet. Everything went fine, it almost always does when we are out. There isn't any connection of any sort, it probably looks normal, it is hard to describe. We got home, and she went to bed, since she had to work today. So I won't see her again until about 8 tonight.
Lisa, I don't think more time is going to make any difference at all. To all appearances, it seems she likes living this way. At least there is no indication otherwise. Except she would like be to do a better job of getting the laundry done and put away! She doesn't have any pressure on here from me (any time I do anything she says she feels guilty, well, I wonder why?, and yet even that is my fault. So, I am going to have to apply a shakeup, I fear.
Ingrid, when I started reading the boards I started at the SSM board, but as time went on I though that the issue was WAY deeper than that. I think that focusing on that issue doesn't even scratch the surface. I still read there, but I just don't think it fits. I'd like to get to the point where that's the only problem!
What 180? I'm not sure it i a 180, and I am not sure it is DBing...but here is what I am thinking about....I probably won't do this until after the first of March, as S19 is supposed to get to come home for a couple of days before his all expenses paid trip to Djbouti, Africa, courtesy of the USMC, and I don't want to do anything to mess that up. Also, our anniversary is Feb. 16 (23 years), and I have an irrational hope that she will notice that it is our anniversary and remember that she is married! Anyway, I think I am just going to ask her if she wants to be married. And if she does, what does she want to do about it. And if she doesn't, ask her to leave. I think, with an extreme stretch, I could buy her out. I might sell later, but I would like to wait.
So there it is. It is a crap plan, but it is what I've got. I can't do this for years more. I wish I had not let it go so far, but that is water under the bridge.
I will put a helmet on now, for I am sure there will be 2x4s!
I'll give hugs, anyway! You can't get away from them!
You're situation is a lot like mine, although from my H's point of view. I know he has been thinking of leaving off and on for years, but I've never seen him in the state he was in during the time that he was actually making the decision to leave. If that's what you're going through right now, I'm very sorry.
I do think that your W has issues that she will need to address if things are to get better for you guys and agree that they go much deeper than sex - but that's a BIG symptom. People do have varying levels of need for interaction. When my H starts to move closer to me and be more physically affectionate, as my H has been doing lately, I start to find it annoying after a while, even though not so long ago I was really wishing that he would start to behave that way. Annoying isn't the right word, even - it just starts to feel like too much. For him, it's probably starting to feel like close to enough, finally, so the challenge for me is to deal with my feelings, or find a way to communicate it to him (hard to do when we're still not having any R talks - I wonder how long I continue that, when it seems that he's staying, at least for now?) while still trying to give him what he needs.
Anyway, my point is that if you are able to say that to your W and mean it at least 90% (because there will be that part of you that's hoping!), it may be just be the shake up she needs. It has certainly worked for me - hopefully I'll be able to hold on to these changes without having to go through this stress again.
I actually don't think it's a crap plan at all and think you're very brave to be considering it. It's really hard to put everything on the line, to say 'that's it, I've had enough'. The way you're living isn't good for your W either and maybe someday she'll thank you for taking a stand.
You have to deal with valentine's day and your anniversary almost at the same time, plus your son leaving? Yikes. February is going to be a rough month for you, so take care of yourself.
Thanks very much for your post! The more I think about it, the more I think that my plan is the thing to do. Which doesn't make me like it any better, but I just don't see any alternatives. I guess is is possible to continue with the status quo, which would be "for he kids", but I am not all that convinced that it is even good for them, either!
You are right, February is going to be fun. I haven't made any decisions on how to handle either Valentines Day or our anniversary. Ignoring them would probably be a bad idea, but going overboard would be equally bad, maybe worse. I have to come up with a reasonable compromise! It shouldn't be that hard, should it?
Thanks again for your support (and everyone else, too!) I appreciate that you take the time to read this, and think about it.
I've been thinking about your situation and it is similar to mine. (H still in house)
My kids are older and some people think that it doesn't necessarily affect them.
It does and although they may not say it, they can see and feel the dinamics of the relationship.
Early on I told the kids exactly what was going on, and they didn't thank me for it at the time,they have since.
They need to know that a relationship does not have to be this cold.
That people who love each other don't treat each other this way.
Not always in a bad way but cold....
They thanked me and said "Don't worrymom, you'll be fine. People should't treat anyonelike that."
I then told them that their dad was not always like this and that they were right...but that I was willing to take a stand for myself (which I did, I let him know when I don't appreciate when he talks to me with disrespect)
I will try to wrk this out but not at the cost of my self respect and the respect of my kids.
I do love their dad and he is going through "something" and hopefully we will be together when it is all said and done.
I don't want them to think that I will just throw in the towel, but at the same time I will not be treated like a 2nd class citizen.
At this point they started to repect me for what I am trying to do but not put up with.
Believe me Jeff, it is not the best thing to do it for your kids if it changes who you are and need to be...yourself.
Be yourself,be honest with yourself, and the kids....
They will look back and remember how you changed to the happier you.
You deserve it you know.
E
"Sometimes in the winds of change, we find our true direction"
Thanks for your thoughts. I think you are right, and it sure helps to hear it from someone else! I think the end result will really be better for everyone, though it might be difficult to get through. What's going on now isn't good for anyone.
There are multiple possible outcomes. You should not be considering filing just because you think you know which outcome will result. It would be a roll of the dice. Of course, you may reach that point.
She might get her little world rocked and ask you to give her time. If that happened, and I doubt it, some counseling would need to begin or it wouldn't really be change would it?
She might say thank you and blast outa there. It might not feel the way you expect either.
She might say give me a year alone in a one room apartment, and then we'll see. Hey, at least you wouldn't have to walk circles around her in the house. You could both use that time to divide assets as you both test reality. Let her see what single would really be like. You and the kids in the house. Finances balanced fairly. While she might actually like that option, it would make you linger another year in limbo. Does not seem the direction you are leaning, but you would avoid looking back and saying that you made hasty decisions.
Relax and think. Take your time. Be fair to yourself.
Thanks, WAS! I realized after that was up a while that it might sound like I was to the point of filing, but I really am not. The intention was to say that I don't plan to leave, but I think it is possible for her to leave, and it only be a finacial disaster, not a catastophe.
What I hope to do is get her to either commit or not. And if she commits, to actually take action (which I think would have to include counseling, probably individually and together). If she doesn't, I'd like her to go. If it was going with a possibility of return, I think I could deal with it, I don't know what the ground rules would be, but I don't think it could be open ended. There's been too much open ended to this point. Sadly, if she left with no intention of coming back, I don't think I'd even be disappointed, though trying to say that ahead of time is clearly just a guess!
I've got a month before I do anything, so I have time to consider, and think.
Thanks for your thoughts and support, I appreciate it!
I have to point out that this sounds so controlling:
Originally Posted By: dry_heat
What I hope to do is get her to either commit or not. And if she commits, to actually take action (which I think would have to include counseling, probably individually and together).
What if she's not ready to make a decision? You might force her to move out when she's not sure that's what she really wants.
If you're not seeing any changes with her, I agree that it may be time to shake things up, but I don't think forcing her to make a decison is the best way to go about it. Earlier you wrote that she seems happy with things the way they are now- but how do you know that? You may be reading into things. Maybe she wants a change too. Of course she wants to be happy- she may not realize that things with you can be different than they have been for the last 10-15 years. How can you make changes to yourself that can show her that you are still the same guy she fell in love with all those years ago? What changes have you made so far? I'm sorry if I'm repeating the old DB cliches, but you need to work on YOU, the only person you can control.
You know, it does sound controlling. On the other hand, it is a serious 180. She has been in complete control of the relationship for a long, long, time. She has had lots of opportunities to change things, and she's made it pretty clear that she isn't interested. The guy she fell in love with....what if that never really happened? She was out of college, in a crap job, living with her parents, because there was no way she could afford not to....was I a way out of that? And then, one thing led to another, there were kids, life in general, it was easier to stay together than do anything else.... I don't know, but I could see that being the way it was. Not liking the thought, but?????
What changes have I made? hmmm, well some of it is stuff she asked for, I never call her by the pet names I used for years, I never say I love you, I almost never touch her, I leave her alone. I do spend more time on my hobby than I used to, I try to be a good dad.
Anyway, I am going to shake things up. The way I can think of is to ask her what she wants.....I'd be more than happy to listen to other ideas, I'm not doing anything for a month!
Thanks again new_attitude, I really like that you make me think!
What I hope to do is get her to either commit or not. And if she commits, to actually take action (which I think would have to include counseling, probably individually and together).
I disagree that that sounds controlling. I would say it is proactive. This woman has to be woken up and sometimes that includes shaking the crap outta the fence.
What I would caution you on OJ is the fact that she is probably going to be caught well off guard by you grabbing the bull by the horns and placing it in her lap. Be prepared to see and feel her process her own emotions, which you have done to a certain extent by being a part of this board. It is going to rip off the scab if you do this but I do agree that it needs to be done. It just must be done out of LOVE, not anger or bitterness. Keep that in mind.
