Just thought I'd give some advice from my experience.
Your wife is exactly like mine in that at times she says all the right things, and at other times turns into the "alien" who seems to live live without any rational thought what so ever.
The only thing I can say is to be patient, expect the roller coaster to continue. More importantly, trust your wife. You have been together for a long time and from your descricption, your "pre-alien" wife was a good woman. Don't let 4 months worth of shaky behavior cause you to forget 15 years worth of good behavior.
I also have experience with people who I believe are not "for" our marriage. It's not the neighbors, but the MIL. I believe that in my highly emotional state I start looking for people to blame for the situation and give way to much credit for the MIL's influence. This has caused me at times to build up resentment and also not take blame for what I had done to contribute to the situation, therefore I wasn't as inclined to work on myself and my actions.
I don't think cutting your wife off from the neighbor wife is a good idea. Your wife needs a friend right now, even if the friends isn't pro marriage. I would talk to your wife about taking the neighbor's advice with an understanding of the situation they are coming from.
About her moving back because of the kids and house. I think that is fine, it just gives you a chance to show her how you have changed. Don't pressure her with R talk, just simply be the best husband you can.
I didn't see anything in your thread about what you had done wrong in the marriage and what steps you were taking to correct that. I obviously only have a snapshot of what was going on, but it looks like you made your life revolve around your boys and sports. Your wife may have been starved for love, affection, and attention.
In summary, be patient, and only work on what you can control, and that is your actions. As hard as it may be, don't worry about the neighbors, don't worry about the future. You can not control them.
looks like you made your life revolve around your boys and sports. Your wife may have been starved for love, affection, and attention.
This sounds like a really smart observation. Take some time, every day, to just let her talk while you listen. It doesn't have to be "let's talk", just be in the same room with her and she'll likely talk. Prompt if needed.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
AM - Thanks for a great post. You are very perceptive. The one thing I thought about last night was the neighbors. I had read the part of DR last night about a couple of things you can do now to improve the marriage. The first thing i came up with is the neighbors. At times I have been a real prick about them, because I was jealous at how much time my wife was spending with them. Prior to the ILYBANILWY speech, I would have never given her time with them a 2nd thought and would have never been jealous. But that damn speech made me very insecure for a while. I am going to change towards them and be very patient. I know it makes my wife happy when i get along with them. She always tells me that they like me very much.
You hit it right on the head about how our life was revolving around the boys and sports. That was my fault. She was involved with me in it so i didn't see that it was bothering her. When she just dropped it, it was too late for me to try and fix.
She has confused the MC because she has never been able to articulate what her problem with me was. At one point she said i was very controlling but could never give an example. So I just roll with it and try to be as loving as possible. I actually think when i get mad at her I exhibit this cold, mean behavior that i am not proud of. I know it bothers her, but she hasn't brought it up. That was the first thing I have changed. I am not doing it anymore and it feels very good. I am enjoying the 180s ( I actually call them my Costanzas - "do the complete opposite of anything you ever do - if everything you have ever done is wrong - the complete opposite must be right"). They are opening my eyes up.
I agree about the R talk. She brought it up last night and I said that if she was ok, I'd like to just take it very slow, one day at a time and see where it leads us, baby steps. She said that sounded great.
Thanks for the post it really helps and makes sense. The funny thing was that after reading your post, the husband called to say that he heard I'm coming home and that was great. He then told me that he told the wife last night that he wanted a divorce. I told him I have a great book for him. He's going to help me open my pool this weekend and invited us over for BBQ on Sunday.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
"Dad, don't apologize, you have always been my role model, but after today you just took it up to whole other level. I'll never forget what you have done for this family and what you have gone through personally." Little did he know that after he left, what he said to me led to a entirely new breakdown, but one that was good.
Well, that just made me break down a little bit, too. Beautiful.
Originally Posted By: mulesqb
I actually call them my Costanzas - "do the complete opposite of anything you ever do - if everything you have ever done is wrong - the complete opposite must be right").
Me too!! That's how I've been explaining them to people, "you know how George on Seinfeld decides to go against every single one of his instincts? Well that's me right now."
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
Journal - The weekend went pretty well. Spent a lot of time with the neighbors. I was flying with my Costanzas all weekend just letting the husband's obnoxious behavior go. My wife wants no part of spending time with our kids right now and quite honestly I don't know how to handle it without starting something with her. So I am just trying to do as much as I can at both ends.
On Saturday night we went out with some of our other friends and really had a great night. It was like old times. She was sharing food with me at dinner and seemed like her old loving self.
Sunday was interesting as my neighbor had us over for a BBQ. I actually was pretty happy as my wife seemed to not be as flirtatious with him. The problem was that he was all over her the entire day. I just did my Costanzas and looked the other way. At night I went into the house with his two cousins and shot some pool. About 20 minutes later my W came in and just hung out. Then she asked if she could be on my team. I had a lump in my throat the size of a basketball but I don't think I let it show.
Yesterday we opened our pool together and I was doing a lot of work around the house. I had to run out and get some things for the pool. When I came back she was in the neighbor's back yard talking to the H. He was standing there with his shirt off in a bathing suit. She must have talked to him for over an hour. I did my Costanzas and acted like nothing and was very upbeat. When she came back she said they have a lot of food left over - is it ok if they bring it over and I cook. I said no problem at all. So that's what we did. Again the neighbor was flirting with my W big time and this time she flirted back a little. His W looked pissed. I just Costanza'd my way through it. Then last night she actually watched TV with me until bed time. It has been a few weeks since we had done that. All in all, there were a lot of positives. My biggest concern is the kids. She just has no patience for them right now so i am just trying to do as much as I can and I agree with whatever problem she complains about.
One question - we used to hold each other most of the night in bed. Since this whole thing started, she has been in Siberia on the other side of the bed. When I moved back in on Friday she moved a little closer but is still pretty far away. But now she will face me at times. Every now and then I roll over and put my arm around her like old times. Nothing sexual, I just enjoy being close to her. Does anyone think that is pushing it. To me I was just acting "as if'. She has let me keep it there for a little while and then just kind of rolls over. I think if it bothered her she would say something. She has made no attempt to hold me, but that's ok. I was hoping to get rid of some of the weirdness between us. I also don't want to make any kind of move of a sexual nature just yet. I think maybe I should wait for her to make the move or initiate it. Not really sure what to do there, it's been a while between us - probably about 2 months.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
Why are you tolerating your neighbor -- with whom your wife has already had at LEAST an emotional affair -- openly flirting with your wife, and vice-versa? I'm stunned.
Calling it "doing my Costanzas" is a cute reference, but I see you pretty much just appeasing your wife recently, and it's not going to work. This man has told you he supposedly is a friend of your marriage. You need to call him on his inappropriate behavior toward your wife.
I told you before that your neighbors were a problem. The recent events bear this out.
Puppy - Thanks for replying. I was just trying to be the loving husband this weekend. This guy just tries very hard to be the life of the party. I actually see my W not laughing as hard at him as she used to. I was very encouraged that she followed me to play pool at their party and then ask to be on my team - she was looking to spend time with me at his party.
When I say that he was all over her - he was busting her balls in front of everyone and trying to incite laughs. I think that eventually my W will tire of this. Last night I felt like he was just trying to get his W jealous. His Mom is very sick and his W works right by her hospital. She hasn't called her or stopped to see her the entire time she has been there. So he is furious because his family feels it is an insult. He talks about leaving her but he doesn't and in my opinion he won't because he loves her. He talks to me about it constantly and asks for help. He was also very supportive to me when I was starting to lose patience with the sitch. So i feel this is one way that i am improving myself.
In DR it asks you to come up with 2 things that can help your marriage right now. The first thing I thought of was to be more accepting of them since my W likes them so much. My W always asks me to go with her if she is going to do something with them. If she didn't, I guess I would react differently. I am taking a bit of a leap of faith here and trusting her, and hoping in the long run it will payoff. Things definitely improved this weekend between between us. I certainly don't know what the right thing to do is here. I was just taking some advice from above and trying to be as loving as possible. I definitely am appeasing her though.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
In DR it asks you to come up with 2 things that can help your marriage right now. The first thing I thought of was to be more accepting of them since my W likes them so much. My W always asks me to go with her if she is going to do something with them.
Mules,
This is fine if this is just some couple, or in-laws, etc. It is decidedly NOT okay if it's the man with whom she's had an emotional affair. You do NOT need to "accept" that, nor should you.
You are placing your faith in the hands of people who do NOT have your marriage's best interests at heart, in my opinion, and condoning (even enabling) your wife's continued contact with the source of her addiction.
You're taking the easy path. Sadly, that's rarely the right one.
What would the result be of asking this neighbor to back off? I mean right in front of everyone...just say, "knock it off". Talking for an hour to just the husband, when she has an acknowledge EA with him is definitely uncool. It isn't harmless because it bothers you. If what he was doing was bothering your wife so much, why was she fine with talking to him for an hour the next day? And if it was so harmless, why was his wife upset? Were you both seeing things? If someone flirted with my wife in front of my face I wouldn't just go all Costanza...I'd mark my territory. If your wife doesn't see herself as your territory, then maybe she came back to soon. I agree with Puppy...these neighbors are bad news...don't underestimate the damage they could do to your marriage.
I'm trying to put myself in your shoes...but am struggling. There is no way I'd hang out with my neighbors if he flirted with my wife. Unreal. I can see that making demands on your wife might not work (since she wasn't the one flirting), but I wouldn't be part of that kind of BBQ. If it were me, I'd express to my wife exactly why I would prefer to limit contact with the neighbors, that you don't appreciate how OM carried on and if it happens again you intend to address it, and indicate you will do your own thing. Basically my feeling is OM wants to get her back to crushing on him again.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
P.S. Are you sure that your wife didn't want to come back just so she's next to these neighbors (and especially OM) again? I hope that's not the case. At least she hung out with you.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
