P.S. Are you sure that your wife didn't want to come back just so she's next to these neighbors (and especially OM) again? I hope that's not the case. At least she hung out with you.
Phoenix - It would probably get ugly. He is one of those obnoxious loud mouths. I'm not sure what to do here. You guys are making good points. I just have felt closer to her lately. When the EA ended we agreed that there would be no more phone calls to him. She hasn't called him. We talked about what was appropriate behavior and what was inappropriate behavior. We had decided that she was capable of deciding what that is. I am trying to be supportive, but I definitely see your point and know how it makes me feel. I really think she is an MLCer so I am trying not to push. My understanding is that she has to get through this herself. At times I see signs. I was going to talk to her about it but thought that it would be considered R talk so I stayed away from it. Do you think I should talk to her about it? We go to counseling on Thursday. From your post, it looks like you think I should discuss it with her. I think may be right about hi wanting her to be crushing on him again.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
We talked about what was appropriate behavior and what was inappropriate behavior. We had decided that she was capable of deciding what that is.
Wrong. You don't put an adulterer in charge of what is -- and isn't -- their adultery.
Mules, I know you want to "feel closer" to your wife. WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE -- WE UNDERSTAND. But you're often (usually?) going to have to feel more distant from her before you can feel closer, if your recovery is to be real.
Having conversations about boundaries isn't necessarily "R talk." It will likely LEAD to R talk, but just say "I don't want to talk about that right now. We agreed that I can't live in a marriage where my wife is openly flirting with a neighbor, or who is allowing a neighbor to openly flirt with her. I'm asking you to respect that." (or whatever)
I thought about this a lot. She told MC it was because she was missing the house and the kids - I was not included. Then she changed to missing everyone. When we separated - she definitely talked to them over the phone from her aunt's house.
She tried to avoid discussing her feelings about me with the MC. When MC finally got her to talk, she said that she loved me very much and that she knew I would always stand by her and believe in her and that was why she was doing what she did. She said that she felt tremendous guilt over the pain that she caused me.
I have mixed emotions about discussing with my wife. I don't know whether I should bring it up to her or discuss in counseling.
As far as the neighbor, we have discussed before, he backs off then he tends to come back. It seems to me that he feels if I am around it is ok. My understanding is that when I am not around he usually doesn't give her the time of day.
This is very hard!
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
As far as the neighbor, we have discussed before, he backs off then he tends to come back. It seems to me that he feels if I am around it is ok. My understanding is that when I am not around he usually doesn't give her the time of day.
This is very hard!
Hey Mules, I hope you don't mind if I jump in here with a female perspective. I am trying to consider how to deal with confronting similar issues, and I've been thinking about this a lot.
The DB way seems to be, don't confront, because you'll push your S closer to the OR. But you know, I think maybe you might consider confronting in a non-aggressive way. Not a doormat, but also not a caveman. I think the key is, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."
Obviously this guy has some serious issues, people who need to be the "alpha dog" in the room all the time are usually making up for huge insecurities, feel constantly threatened. This article is pretty decent about how to deal with those kind of people: love them, empathize with them, take away their power over you by thinking of them as kindergarteners who are looking for attention:
And I think maybe if this technique can be mastered, that you might feel comfortable enough in social situations to tease him a little bit when he teases your wife (I assume that's what you mean by busting her balls), and probably get bigger laughs because it's unexpected and you're comfortable enough and clear headed enough to say something really witty. But if it's out of anger or jealousy, it will probably come out not funny/too harsh.
I think you have an excellent opportunity to turn this whole thing around by seeing him as he really is, depersonalizing it, and getting yourself to a comfortable place where you feel generously towards him. Which maybe takes away his power over you.
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
Puppy - Thanks for the kick in the ass. I see now that I needed it. I will talk to her about it tonight.
While I was typing this she just called me. She sounded great. I am at work and for a while she had stopped calling me here. She is off today. She was so upbeat. Her and I have been planting new shrubs and a garden. I had bought a Crimson Maple Tree for the front of the house. I paid $250 for it and it was not doing well. My neighbor was trying to make fun of me because of what i paid. He goes to Home Depot all the time and rips the price stickers off and puts the $19.99 stickers on whatever he buys (kind of describes his character, doesn't it?)Anyway she knows I have been trying really hard to get that Maple back to good health. She just told me 11 times on the phone that it looks GREAT. She said that I did a really good job this weekend and she is so excited about how the house and yard looks. She is thinking about quitting her job and starting her own biz and wants me to help. We talked about this in counseling last week. I don't know, I have such mixed emotions on this stuff. My gut is telling me now to let this past weekend go, and if it happens again I should then confront her, do you agree??
I have to say - you guys are great - thanks for taking time out of your busy days to help me with this. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. I hope some day that I can provide the same type of support to someone in need that you guys are providing me.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
Lost - Thanks so much for stopping in. I loved the article. It's funny - I saw some of what I have been doing in it. I had decided that I was going to work on myself. The biggest thing that bothered me was how insecure I had become. My W had made a point of it, because until the bomb dropped I had never had an insecure bone in my body. I am sure it was something that my wife was attracted to. In reading DR, I had decided it was time to get back to the person I truly am. One of the ways to get over that insecurity was to accept the neighbor for who he was and not let him bother me. Exactly how the article described. I know my W has noticed. Originally I had become friends with him to keep an eye on him, but now I know who and what he is. He doesn't bother me. In fact I give him many well timed shots. He gives some to me as well - part of being in kindergarten!
My wife is struggling. It is so unlike her to really not want to spend anytime with our kids. I am seeing little signs here and there of her true personality. I think if I am to confront her, I have to wait for another event to happen. I don't want to go backwards. I will say this - thanks to all of you, I am getting stronger and stronger everyday. Not afraid of whatever the future holds. I love her with all my heart and always will - but if she decides that she wants out - I'll deal with it. I am just seeing things that tell me she will come out of this.
PS - "Alpha Dog" is the perfect description of him!
Thanks again!
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
Puppy - Thanks for the kick in the ass. I see now that I needed it. I will talk to her about it tonight.
While I was typing this she just called me. She sounded great. I am at work and for a while she had stopped calling me here. She is off today. She was so upbeat. Her and I have been planting new shrubs and a garden. I had bought a Crimson Maple Tree for the front of the house. I paid $250 for it and it was not doing well. My neighbor was trying to make fun of me because of what i paid. He goes to Home Depot all the time and rips the price stickers off and puts the $19.99 stickers on whatever he buys (kind of describes his character, doesn't it?)Anyway she knows I have been trying really hard to get that Maple back to good health. She just told me 11 times on the phone that it looks GREAT. She said that I did a really good job this weekend and she is so excited about how the house and yard looks. She is thinking about quitting her job and starting her own biz and wants me to help. We talked about this in counseling last week. I don't know, I have such mixed emotions on this stuff. My gut is telling me now to let this past weekend go, and if it happens again I should then confront her, do you agree??
No, I don't. I think you're playing with marital matches.
Originally I had become friends with him to keep an eye on him, but now I know who and what he is. He doesn't bother me.
That's excellent, but...this is not meant as a 2x4, it's clear from your posts that he does still bother you. It's not a criticism. Shoot, he bothers ME and I'm not even in your situation! The man is clearly a complete jack---, I would probably need to knock back a few just to be in the same room with him.
But you're working your way to transcending his BS. We're fighting epic battles on this forum, we're asking ourselves to do much more than most people ask themselves to do. Ever. And we're doing it right when we've lost confidence, but who wouldn't lose some in the same situation?
So, we gain it back and then some. Eventually I can see you completely transcending this situation. I see you becoming a magnet for your wife at the same exact time. And I'll wager that he becomes less obnoxious and is even intimidated by your presence.
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
Thanks Lost - Ok maybe he still bothers me a little... An electronic 2 x 4 to the head is fine.
I really am becoming less and less threatened by him. If you ever saw him in person you would probably laugh at me for ever being threatened by him in the first place.
To give you a little sense of his humor - at his BBQ on Sunday he was trying to get my son to pull his finger in front of all his guests. Finally, my son (who doesn't like him at all) pulled his finger to get him away. He tried to break wind and ended up having to change his pants. His friends and cousins all laughed and thought it was hysterical.
Anyway, I feel like I'm on my way, but maybe I should address it with her tonight so there are no more situations. What do you think about me holding her at night?
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
