Been here for months - time to tell my story

[mulesqb]

Hey Lost - the OM does dominate in social settings but I go after him a lot. After the "pull my finger" incident I said: I don't know what everyone is laughing about - this is the guy who is handling your food. I got a lot of laughs and then I got up and went inside. I don't let him beat up on my wife too much either - I'll jump in and defend or change the subject. I do like your suggestion though about telling him to stop and getting her a drink. I like the advice about just being strong and confident. That has always been who I am and I really don't want to change for this guy. I know that my wife always found that attractive in me. I will make the other changes around the house and our relationship - but for him that's where I think I need to be. If she chooses him - I am definitely prepared to move on. It will be hard - but I could do it. She knows a PA is a deal breaker for me.

[iamlost]

Man, I wish the edit button worked!

I just wanted to add that by not allowing him to single out your family, and adding a friendly little dig, you are protecting them and at the same time pointing out the fact that he is actually extremely annoying, without directly pointing it out.

My feeling is they'll notice and appreciate, because really--you're naming what they're feeling.

[iamlost]

Hey Lost - the OM does dominate in social settings but I go after him a lot. After the "pull my finger" incident I said: I don't know what everyone is laughing about - this is the guy who is handling your food. I got a lot of laughs and then I got up and went inside. I don't let him beat up on my wife too much either - I'll jump in and defend or change the subject. I do like your suggestion though about telling him to stop and getting her a drink. I like the advice about just being strong and confident. That has always been who I am and I really don't want to change for this guy.

I don't mean to suggest to be a different person, I was more suggesting intervening on a constant basis, so he never gets to single them out. Never ever.

I know that you've been defending your family, and doing an excellent job of it, but I'm starting to see that his behavior, singling people out and making them the butt of the joke may be at the root of your wife's attraction to him: It's obviously less extreme, but the more you tell me about this guy, the more I think of Stockholm Syndrome.

[Bworl]

Mule,

Just starting reading your sitch, not quite done yet.

I wanted to recommend you buying for your wife the book "When the Heart Waits" by Sue Monk Kidd.

This is a true book by the author about a time when she was questioning everything about her life. It's not really about marital problems as much as it is about spiritual searching. It's a fantastic book that I got so very much out of. I passed it off to my now ex-wife, but I don't know that she ever read it.

More later.


blessings,

Bill

[Bworl]

Wow, ok.

First off, call me a prude, but one of the conditions for trying to put your relationship back together in the house should have been NO CONTACT with the male neighbor.

Couldn't care less if it pissed her off or not.

She crossed a boundary and was perhaps close to crossing an even more serious boundary with this man. More importantly, HE KNOWS IT and given the state of his marriage, and his impeccable character, you can be sure that he would take advantage of such an opportunity again.

I realize the moving idea is radical and difficult, but I confess that this is serious enough that I would consider that even, if I could find a way to sell it to her.

This relationship with this guy has to stop. Period.

You talk to him and he shares that he has talked to HER about the two of you? And you don't think that's how this whole mess started to begin with?

You come home to find her talking to him in his bathing suit? And she stays talking to him AFTER you get home?

No way my friend.

That who "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" deal does not apply when your wife has entertained thoughts of sleeping with one of those enemies.

You do need to man up. And one of the areas you need to man up in is this one. You don't have to go caveman about it, but you need to speak the truth. And if she's really interested in the future of your relationship, she will understand and agree.

You also need to man up in focusing your time and attention on her every bit as much as the boys. I'd say there's a good chance that part of her problem was feeling unneeded and irrelevant in your home. I have two boys of my own, 21 and 16, and I know how they can dominate MY time as they are older. The wife begins to feel unnecessary and like an outsider. It's YOUR job to give her as much as you give them. They WILL understand.

I know you're scared now to do too much. You think everything is fixed or being fixed and you're afraid to upset the apple cart.

Get out on the board here and read through some threads of people who have had their spouse leave and return, leave and return, leave and return. If she's messed up inside, and she does nothing about HERSELF to fix what's messed up inside, dude, she's STILL messed up inside.

So she missed her home and her boys (though that seems to be in question lately). She didn't say she missed you. And moving back DID bring her closer to her EA playmate.

We all want to be reconciled. But do it right or be prepared to relive it all again.

And it sucks twice as bad the second time.


Blessings,

Bill

[mulesqb]

Guys - thanks so much for all the input. When i got home last night the kids were acting up so she was very exasperated. Her stomach was bothering her at the thought of going back to her job today. So I brought in dinner and cleaned up and disciplined the kids. She definitely seems to be getting closer to me. We finally talked very late last night but not about the neighbor and not any R talk. She admitted she is having trouble with the kids and it is getting her very down. When i am not home she doesn't feel like she gets any respect from them. She said they make it so difficult for her that is why she doesn't want to be home. She said that is why she has been constantly looking for adult time. She said between the kids and the job that she doesn't like, she has a lot of trouble finding happiness. She told me that I have been great to her about her doing her own thing when she wants and helping out with chores. The ironic thing is that she has included me in all of "her own things" since we moved back in. She said that she really appreciates it.

I told her that personally I think she should quit her job and take a few weeks to work on herself. She hasn't had a vacation since last summer. She told me that she was having a great day yesterday until the boys got home. She sat out on our deck putting the last chemicals in our pool, paid bills and did the kid's laundry - hardly fun stuff, the kind of things that i have been trying to help her with. But she loves our house and yard. When she called me yesterday around lunchtime I can't tell you how good she sounded. I told her she made my entire day by her tone. Anyway, I am trying to encourage her to find a job that she really enjoys. We talked about her starting her own biz. I have an ad agency, so I could help her with web pages and handouts and stuff.

The issue for her is the kids. We also go back to MC tomorrow night. I don't know - I really do see what all of you are saying about the neighbor. Let me just tell you my thinking and you can smack me some more. I have really worked hard on myself while I detached from her. It took me over a month to get feeling like myself again. I had lost about 30 pounds (I was not overweight to begin with so it was very noticeable by all). I have since put 5 back on. I have always been a very strong, secure and confident man. We re both very well known throughout the community as she ran the CCD program for our parish and then volunteered me to run the CYO program. So many people took notice of things. While this was all happening I just withdrew from everything, stopped answering phone calls, e-mails etc...Many people thought I was sick due to the weight loss. Since working on myself I now feel very good. I am back to my confident self again. I really want to help my wife right now. She is lost with what makes her happy in life. To think that she has no patience for our children and doesn't want to be around them is unfathomable to me. When I ended her EA with the neighbor she swore up and down that there was absolutely no physical attraction on her part. She told her father the same thing. She is very close with him. He explained to her that he would have reacted the same way I did. Anyway, my attitude is that I have worked on myself to the point where I am very confident again. If for some reason she decides to have a PA with another man, it is over for me, no matter what. A PA for her would go against every moral belief she has. So I just feel like she needs to work on the marriage. When we left MC last week, she said that next week we should talk about how to work on us. Last week we were just really focusing on her feelings. I now feel like if she wants to work on us she is going to have to stop the stuff with the neighbor. I am looking for the right time to bring it up to her and am confident it will happen soon. I just feel like if I confront her with it now I could end up pushing her closer to him. She is very happy that I am getting along with them as she feels like we both need time out with friends. In the meantime I am going to keep making plans with other friends as well. I also want to start doing things alone with her. It seems like we are getting to that point where some of the strangeness is going away.

She just called me - she went into work and they sent her home as they were slow. We had another very good talk and she sounded great. I love that she calls me here. She saw an ad for another job in the paper and is going to call them. I do feel like we are making progress. I also think I am going to talk to the neighbor again.

Sorry to go on so long - this is very complicated. You guys are offering such good advice. Don't feel like I am not taking it or am afraid to implement it with her. It's just that I have been recognizing some real positives the last few days. I held her this morning in bed for close to an hour and she didn't push away. I then kissed her on the forehead this morning when I left for work, 2 things I haven't done in months. I still haven't told her that I love her. Up until 2 months ago, I told her that everyday for the last 17 years. Although I really do want to tell her, I am going to hold off for a while unless someone feels differently. Thanks again for all your time here, it is helping me a great deal.

[mulesqb]

Bill - i just read your post over. I am going to come down harder on her about the neighbor.

I have been focusing every minute of my time on her to the point now where I don't feel like I have been a great father. Very hard to figure out when she really wants no part of them right now.

Thank you very much - you have me thinking very hard about this. I guess when you make some progress it is scary to put the progress in jeopardy. I certainly don't think everything is fixed by any stretch of the imagination - I just think we are making progress for the first time in a long time and it is due to the techniques in DR.

Any ideas on how to handle her feelings towards the kids??

[Bworl]

Mule,

It's not a matter of coming down "harder." I certainly don't suggest that you take a strong man approach.

My feeling is that she had an EA with this man, by your words. He has flirted with her and she with him. EA's far too often lead to PA's, which is a boundary you have been very clear on (by the way, does she know this is such a rigid boundary for you?).

It's the whole "friend vs. enemy of the marriage" thing that others have shared with you.

This man, by his actions, has declared himself an enemy of your marriage. I'm not beyond giving people a second chance, but when it comes to marital unfaithfulness I'm not quite so accomodating.

Ideally this would be a calm and peaceful conversation between the two of you, where you do a lot of "I feel" type comments. This should not be a finger pointing conversation. It would be interesting to hear her take on things with this other guy. If she is very cavalier when it comes to YOUR feelings about him, I would say that is a red flag that this might still be an issue.

As far as the boys, it might be time for a father/son chat to get their take on things. Is it possible the boys are "punishing" her in some way for leading to the family being separate for awhile? It would be a natural response I think, but YOU need to be the one to make it clear to them that you LOVE their mother and want your marriage to be a strong, long lasting one. They can help you in this or hinder you in this.

I still strongly recommend buying the Sue Monk Kidd book and presenting it to your wife as a gift. You could tell her that you know she has been feeling adrift, and that this book was recommended by a friend. If she's on the up and up with you, and really desires to bring things back to good between you, I think she would appreciate the gesture.

Stay strong. Don't do stupid things that hurt your relationship just because one of us here says to. Pass all our advice through your own personal filter that helps you decide what is right and proper for your particular situation.


Blessings,

Bill

[Bworl]

One additional note, just for clarification.

"Manning up" does NOT mean go caveman or dictator on your wife.

If means that you do what must be done, no matter how uncomfortable or unpleasant, to protect your family.

Those who "man up" are usually some of the most thoughtful and sensitive men out there. Quite often a stretch for some of us.


Blessings,

Bill

[mulesqb]

Bill - Thanks again - She definitely knows that is a rigid boundary for me.

I think she feels her actions are ok because she tells me everything they talk about and any "flirting" is done while I am there. I know the neighbor feels it is ok because we have discussed and he does it while I am there. I just don't trust him and don't like him very much.

I like your suggestion about the approach to the conversation. We have had this type of talk in the past and she said he is like her brother. She dismisses it as just fun. I would be a lot more concerned if she was calling him and confiding in him like during the past. She seems to be very impressed with my attitude about it. But I will bring it up again.

You hit the nail on the head about my boys. I had the exact conversation you suggested with them the other night and again with my oldest son last night. They are fdefinitely hindering right now, I discussed family counseling with my wife down the road.

I will look into the book on my way home tonight - thank you for the suggestion and the words of encouragement. I haven't felt this strong since the day before the bomb dropped!