ndsm....you have good men helping you. I hope you listen to them.
sg....I know, and I am....and there are a few good women in there...don't forget them.
I was unable to stay with my thread since the post that got all of the responses (work, and ironically because of all the time with W)... but I am going back to re-read each and every one and do the best I can to touch base with all of you.
I am touched and amazed by the caring people on this site. I can only hope that some day I will be able to offer advice and words of encouragement to some of you.
I want to tell my wife how sorry I am and how much I truly love her.
The things that I thought were no big deal...just comments, just words....make me cringe when I think of them.
Even from your posts I can tell you are a funny, caring, kind man. THAT'S the real you, not that critical guy. Just keep embracing the real you, and love that person.
iamlost,
You know, I really am one of the good guys.....I am still trying to figure out where that guy was for so long, and why he rarely came around, but he's back and I think he will be around for a while, regardless of what happens.....if he gives me any more problems there's going to be a rumble....
...and right back at you
any woman who knows what the heck "string theory" is and has read Brian Green is OK in my book......but don't get the wrong idea...like Flipper....I am not a rocket scientist.
Also, I appreciate your perspective and comments...first because I do want a woman's view sometimes....second because you are, like me, the LBS....although mine has not left....I will keep you in my thoughts....
Sorry to butt in. Left you a response over there...my take on the bungee effect. Should make you feel a bit better. Regarding the above...no sweat. You're allowed to vent. iamlost is pretty intuitive. Good advice!
Anyway, the above was well put. You're a good man and crying is to be considered therapy. You're ahead of the game. Again, I think if more people took responsibility and worked for change the way you (we all here) do, we just might put a huge f**ing dent in that 50% divorce rate.
Think about it. What do most LBS's do after awhile? They soon get tired, say "F--- you!" and /or go out and get another partner...within months! They often get so hurt that they don't even give the WAS a chance to come back if they want.
As you well know (by my aversion to your beloved quantum physics), I am am NOT a rocket scientist, but it stands to reason why there is such a high D rate in this country. I truly feel that the average LBS simply gives up much too soon. Okay, I'm done. You're doing great, my friend. You're my hero cuz you're getting "frisky" and I'm not!! What's your secret?! Maybe I should stop wearing her clothes?
Flipper Your not butting in, buddy....
I agree with your comment that most will give up without really trying....I would say most without even a whimper.....I have known men who have just let their wives leave....."gone"...."screw her".....I suppose the attitude is if they don't want me, why should I bother?
Still, sometimes I do feel that way, but it never lasts. This has made my love for my wife stronger each day and gives me the will to fight for her. I can honestly say I have felt a physical change...at least on the good days....a higher energy level, a purpose....maybe the prayer or meditation we spoke about.
You spend so much time concentrating on the situation....imagining a solution, and ending.....have to make sure it is a positive outcome that is always in your mind's eye, right?
I bounce those brain waves and subatomic particles off her forehead every time I see her....she has no clue.
call me "T"...lol (for puppy and bill..N-D-S-M-H-L-P, sorry. was not really thinking straight when I made my user name)
I think that is all of them.. Sorry bout that just wanted to group things together. It's kinda a pet peeve of mine.. but I don't mind helping you out. Just a reference point I guess. Hope I did not over step my bounds. I know you want feedback.. all I will say is it is easier to get people reading when everything is in a central place. That way people know how to find you.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
What can you tells us about what your WIFE thinks about some of these things?
sg
Great question. I would like to hear that answer also.
To me.. and my strange point of view.. My big question becomes..
What keeps pulling you away from being the happy go lucky guy?
or
Why are you so critical of everything she does?
Originally Posted By: Bworl
She is NOT doing that.
She is LOVING their interactions.
Because he is being fun. Non-critical. Happy. Delighting in her.
All of these things are good.
And I don't see NDS suffering for any of this.
Yes, he would like some positive feedback right now. Frankly, I don't think he deserves to even ask for it right now. Maybe in a few more months. Maybe when things settle down a bit for them and life returns a bit to normal.
Right now his role should be to provide and serve. He must PROVE that he is really changing this time.
Bill
I think the key is the last statement in that. He must not only prove it.. he must keep doing it.. forever. To me the things they are doing.. are not going to last. Yes they are going out having fun.. and she seems receptive of it.. but from my point of view.. I am asking myself why does NDSMHELP.. need any help. Most LBS would kill for a fraction of what he has right now. Heck most of them would be moving to piecing already. Its a odd situation. What concerns me is that NDSMHELP is still floundering around somewhat. So much so.. it has peaked my interest once or twice. Now when people post here there is usually emotion tied to it. To me T.. is not really confused.. he is almost being critical of why she is not leaving. I have to expect this shows up in real life. Thats why I think she does all these things then kinda "feels guilty" or "gets his hopes up".
I hope that came out as understandable.
So on that note..
While I think things are OK for the time.. I question how long they will last. Really there is no forward movement to this situation. There is some ground work done.. but I just can't see where things are going to change for the better. Once life starts to settle..
I agree that he needs to "make up" for what he has done.. make a lifelong change.
Someone suggested counseling for T.. I agree with that. Individual Counseling. Not because you seem off or anything.. I think C could help with your "criticalness".
There is a fine line between "Princess" and "Being a Good Husband". I am inclined to side with Puppy a bit.. that you may be falling towards "Princess". You really have to be careful here.. especially because you are a "critical" person. My idea on it is you need to do enough.. to bring out the qualities you want to see in her. The idea.. is that you compliment one another.. the way you are brings her up.. that in turn brings you up. Just like the bad stuff.. good stuff keeps compounding on itself. I myself am more of a believer in the Love vs Respect thing. The more you love her.. the more she respects you.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Hey Guys I am at work and even farther behind with these posts than I was before...so much so that while I was working on a response you all were still talking.
Just letting you know I am here listening and going to post the response I was working on after this...maybe it will answer some questions.
and plan on trying to stay on this thread only...I know I bounced around a lot looking for answers.
and this is the one I was working on....have to get to work. Yes I work saturdays....feel sorry for me???
Bworl
Bill..first let me say, I am truly sorry that things did not work out for you and your wife. That is a perspective that I need to hear, as much as I don't want to. It makes my commitment to change even stronger.
Then let me tell you...thank you for reading my story and getting in on this thread. You do truly understand, I think because our stories are so similar, what I have done and my goals.
The basic argument that was going on between you and Puppy can be settled simply. You were about 90+% right with your take on the situation.....
I treated my wife poorly for most of our marriage. There were good times and bad, but I have come to realize as time went on, the good times were not really good for her. She was just there, with a smile on her face and an empty feeling in her heart.
People remember things differently and sometimes make it seem worse then it really was, I know....but these last 2 months, I have really been able to step back and see things from her perspective and see what she went through.....see myself in another light, and hear the words I said.
The quotes you pulled form my story tell it well and I think describe us both honestly. She is not a saint, but close.
...and I will get to the princess thing, eventually.
No, I never physically abused her.....we had some knock down drag out arguments, but let me tell you, my wife is not a fighter...it was me doing all the yelling. She hates confrontation, she hates yelling and when she gets to that point, it has been building for a long time....in the 20yrs we have been together, I can count on one hand the times I heard her raise her voice or yell....a couple of times at me and maybe a couple at my daughter.
There were things she wanted that we could not have, physical things, and I faulted her for that sometimes. I also take most of the blame for not having goals that enabled us to have in our lives the things that we both wanted...to realize our dreams that we talked about when we first met. Dreams that were so similar...that made that initial bond.
Dreams that I now realize, she gave up on because of me. Dreams that I am now scrambling to make come true in too short a time.
Then some one will say "why didn't she have her own goals that allowed her to have those things?".
Because I didn't let her have that independence....everything had to go through the "king of the castle"...we can't afford that...not this month, not now, wait until next year..blah, blah, blah....tomorrow never comes.
..and when she tried, it was not good enough for "Mr. Perfect"....that was the demanding, critical, condescending guy who used to come out when the insecure guy was sleeping.
It sounds so simplistic to me, but it comes down to the comments that were going back and forth with you and Puppy and SG.
I DID NOT TREAT HER AS THOUGH I CHERISHED HER.
With apologies to Puppy, she WAS a gift from God and she IS a princess.
I am sure if we get down to it, we will find that our definition of "princess" is completely different and that is why we disagree with how they should be treated.
I am not, and will never be a doormat...and hate the thought that I may have treated my wife as one.
Let me say one more thing about the princess deal....through all of this we are going through...you guys have the story down pretty good by now....I have stepped up and am doing probably more than my share around the house.....my "princess" was up before me twice this week, ironing my clothes before work.
Sounds like something silly to think about, but she always did that for me...mostly because I have that "man gene" that prevents me from actually making the clothes look like they have been ironed.
After the talk, that all stopped...not because she did not want to do it, but because I felt like as ass letting her do it.
I am babbling now and have to get back to work....sorry for the long post...you guys got ahead of me and I still have so much to say and respond to.
Seems to me that you are "floundering around" because you still feel your wife is intent on divorcing at some point in the future. Is that right? Or maybe it's just because she has not in any way given you indication that she's begun to change her mind.
I too agree that the pace of your "fun" right now is not sustainable for the long haul. At some point life will return to something closer to what the normal pace was for the two of you. I think that will be a very telling time for you in your wife's eyes.
It's easier when both parties are throwing themselves completely into finding joy and happiness with each other. The reality of life is that there are normal days, down days, and high days. You're existing on a steady diet of high days right now. Who will YOU be when you both return to the normal or even down days?
I expect she'll be watching closely.
The issues here that you shared in this thread (I have not yet read the others that FG linked here) are issues that I think you very clearly could use counseling on. Otherwise, they will return.
I'm dropping the word princess from my posts, because I don't think that NDS ever really was treating his wife like a "princess" in the current connotation of the word.
He has been treating his wife like a woman that he loves and revels in. A woman that he cherishes being with. I don't see that he has overindulged her or allowed himself to be made less in order to give her what she wants. Honestly, to me, with the exception of NDS's desire to see her changing her mind, it seems that he has enjoyed this time as much as she has.
So what IS the problem NDS?
Your wife appears happy with the new you. So why are you NOT happy?
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
I'm just going to say, with a bit of tear in my eye, that you seem so clear about things now.
It's powerful to read your words that take ownership and responsibility for the man that you used to be. It's such a hard thing for most of us to do.
Ironically, I've come to learn that the DB principles really begin with US taking an honest look at ourselves and correcting what was wrong with us. So many on this board leave this part for much later, missing out on a great opportunity for personal change.
Again I'll just say that to me, your heart is in the exact right place at this moment in time. Honestly.
Once a spouse decides to leave, all bets are off. When they have set their minds to be done with the marriage, our ability to influence them directly is severely curtailed. At that point I firmly believe that we have one last shot - Fixing what was wrong about OUR behavior and loving them unconditionally.
Which is just what you have done.
This woman loved you once. She can be moved to love you again. You have an advantage - she has already fallen in love with you once, married you, had children with you. You are her history.
Show her what she fell in love with again. BECOME that man again, and never change from that, and I think your outlook is good.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Seems to me that you are "floundering around" because you still feel your wife is intent on divorcing at some point in the future. Is that right? Or maybe it's just because she has not in any way given you indication that she's begun to change her mind.
I too agree that the pace of your "fun" right now is not sustainable for the long haul. At some point life will return to something closer to what the normal pace was for the two of you. I think that will be a very telling time for you in your wife's eyes.
It's easier when both parties are throwing themselves completely into finding joy and happiness with each other. The reality of life is that there are normal days, down days, and high days. You're existing on a steady diet of high days right now. Who will YOU be when you both return to the normal or even down days?
I expect she'll be watching closely.
The issues here that you shared in this thread (I have not yet read the others that FG linked here) are issues that I think you very clearly could use counseling on. Otherwise, they will return.
I'm dropping the word princess from my posts, because I don't think that NDS ever really was treating his wife like a "princess" in the current connotation of the word.
He has been treating his wife like a woman that he loves and revels in. A woman that he cherishes being with. I don't see that he has overindulged her or allowed himself to be made less in order to give her what she wants. Honestly, to me, with the exception of NDS's desire to see her changing her mind, it seems that he has enjoyed this time as much as she has.
So what IS the problem NDS?
Your wife appears happy with the new you. So why are you NOT happy?
Bill
That about sums it up....I have not got to the point where I can work on this unconditionally....I am on the outside, believe me. I truly believe my doubts have not shown on the outside. She has been the one to give me the reminders about not getting my hopes up. I have not once asked her how she feels about us, or if her feelings have changes.
When the subject came up, I listened. I told her that I would not fight her and we were on her schedule. That was the end if it.
Is it wrong to WANT to feel some assurance from her? I am NOT pushing and I am NOT pursuing...
...and I know the pace cannot be sustained. If you read the posts that was really my early concerns.
I wondered if it was the right path and everyone told me "enjoy the party"...."things sound great".
Those have always been my worries....the real world creeping back in. Those are actually things we DO talk about, while avoiding R talk, but as you have seen, no progress.
That is my current goal...getting back to the grindstone with home projects, etc. There are many things I know she wants done that will put a smile on her face as we progress.
Right now I am giving up on keeping up with you guys. There are probably more posts since I started this one.
