M, Walking in blind (as you put it) is better than antagonizing your W. The time to split up assets is after the mediator suggests you do so. The mediation process will involve many other topics...child support, spousal support. Do you intend to discuss that with W before mediation also? Patience, all in due time. Just my opinion of course.
John..not justifying anything but my W brought up the mediation discussion night before last and we started talking about it. Last night was just a continuance. All we discussed was the slitting of stuff in the house. Support is set..there's no reeal discussion on that. I did not do it to antagonize her at all.
Please..I want your opinion always...if you hit me with a 2x4 and I don't get it..then by hell swing harder.
While I understand that you are in "protect" mode.. it just seems a bit over the top.
There is a time and a place to protect your interests.. One of the things that can happen in a situation like yours is that people keep doing "more of the same" even though they are separate.. or even living in the same house.. this gets compounded by the WAS saying its done.
It just seems like you are fast tracking this.. and she is all for helping. Really the way to get thru this is let her take the lead. Just follow along quietly.. and pick your battles.
Gypsy.. touched on it to.. you can see from here what your wife is running away from.
You have got to be smart about this.. The constant bickering back and forth.. has got to stop. You are the only one that can do that right now.
Ok. I got it.
If you can see this, then why can't I? That is my problem. If Forrest Gump and Gypsy can see what my W is running from then why can't I? I want to understand.
Its your perspective. The "Emotion" tied to all this. It colors everything you do. The hardest thing to do is step back and really look at it. From a different point of view. It took me a while.
If her words sting you.. what are your words doing to her.
If she is angry.. what are you.
The circle that you two were in at the house.. is just going to move to the courthouse.
You have to find a way to step out and stop the circle.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Its your perspective. The "Emotion" tied to all this. It colors everything you do. The hardest thing to do is step back and really look at it. From a different point of view. It took me a while.
If her words sting you.. what are your words doing to her.
If she is angry.. what are you.
The circle that you two were in at the house.. is just going to move to the courthouse.
You have to find a way to step out and stop the circle.
OK. I understand. I have to leave now and will be offline for a few hours.
You guys contuinue to post away. I'll read it all when I get back tonight.
Forrest-Ping_Gypsy...all the others tha have posted this morning. I apprecaite you.
Mike, you are on the rollercoaster my friend get off. It's time to listen to what you have told other people to do. Listen to Forrest, GFI your answer is in what everyone is posting to you take a step back breath detach
You know I like you and think you're a great guy. You're dedicated and have pulled your emotions up from the tips of your toes and laid them out for all to see. It takes courage. All of this has been very very good for you, to help you grow, to improve where you are in your life. Excellent! Bravo!
Now.. just because you're getting all this growth, doesn't mean your wife is. Just because she can't get past the raging torrent of anger.. which is really just massive hurt.. doesn't mean she isn't trying. She's stuck.
She's told you. She believes the changes you're showing aren't lasting. Or rather, she's too afraid to believe your changes are lasting.
So here she is, in survival mode, probably being goaded by her mom, feeling pushed between a rock and a hard place. She says, don't do anything. You make a gourmet meal. She says, don't touch me, you give a beautiful head massage. You're giving what she doesn't want to take, or feels compelled to accept. You're being a wonderful guy.. but that's not what she's looking for.
She is hurt. Whether you agree with it or not, she is hurt. Hurt and frustrated enough to leave something that is near and dear to her, to break up a family. That only happens when there is a deep longstanding frustration and agony. She does not know how to say how she feels.
Imagine how frustrating it is for her to hear people say.. "Geez.. this marriage can be saved if it weren't for you, Wife. Why can't you (Wife) do what you should?" All the time she's screaming inside because she can't express what she feels.
Your first message: "play til the whistle blows" is a beautiful image, empowering. The second: "If there's a divorce, I'm done with you." Well heck. If she doesn't meet your timetable, then there's no hope, no give, no wiggle room. It's pressure, even if you don't mean it to be.
Sharing cookie's post was incredible, brilliant. It gives her a place to focus where she isn't under the spotlight. She can be human, fragile and tormented.
Where can she be safe?
All of this isn't finger pointing or putting you down. It's just observations, Mike, from a different perspective.
Stuff is stuff. In the end a lawnmower, a recliner don't mean that much, especially if they become fuel for the fire.
Read these suggestions. They are perspectives that you can't have because you are inside looking around, rather than outside looking in. Put on the brakes. Let go of trivial things, even if it pisses you off. You say you want your marriage. Then do what you can until you can't do it any more. You may be right about the barriers in front of you -- but as the saying goes: do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?
Gypsy, your post hit home. Gives me a lot to think about. Thank you for it.
Me45 W35 M6 T8 D16 SD11 D0 Dec 07: Bomb July 08: Busted! Thread
Gypsy, I have a comment to make on the material things that Mike's W is asking for, are you trying to say that Mike should give in and let her have these things? I can not say that I agree with this analogy if this is what you inteded. My W told me I couldn't have anything out of the house until we decided what we were going to do about the house, I had to go out and buy a bedroom suit, bunk beds for the kids, washer, dryer, living room furniture, lamps, tv, vaccum cleaner, basically everything to start a new house. No it did not kill me to do this but it did hurt my wallet by quite a large sum of money, all this while I'm still paying for the house she is living in.
Yes, I may be caught up in the drama with the way I see things also because I am living what Mike is living, but I really just don't agree to lay over and be taken advantage of, when times get to where they are, we have to protect ourselves.
It's choosing your battles. Stuff is stuff. What your wife did wasn't fair but you agreed to it. At least now you have new stuff, which hopefully will be credited if the divorce goes through.
If someone gets baited by an object, say Mike's recliner.. what do you do? Feed on the emotion, get what you're fighting for and give away something of greater value or say.. alright, I'll take this other chair and table. It's negotiations.
The other upside, is what you have is all new... new beginnings.
However, I'm still in the house (with too much crap) while he's in his girlfriend's small apartment.
To an extent I agree with ping1 (above) on this view - "when times get to where they are, we have to protect ourselves" - and this is an understandable reaction, espec in view of fact that most of us are children of the consumer driven western world - but I reckon that one of my W's gripes about our R/M is that I have not been able to transcend that, previously and now, to really "see" what is important - that it is not about recliners and mowers and whatever else is available to hand as a bargaining tool...cos the reality as I see it is that they are worth squit when it comes down to it.
This has been a massive lesson to me - and one I humbly accept and with some humble pie cos I thought that I was a pretty aware, sensitive kind of bloke.
What's become loud and clear to me is that what matters in life is the experiences you have, the relationships and friendships you have, the people you meet, the things you do, the difference you make ...I'm talking about the essence of what it is to be human, not what it takes to be a consumer or a subject of the capitalist world. Its those core elements that I have learnt to value again and has started to drive me through everyday life...its been a process of unlearning and getting back to basics and yes, that's a stretch for a 40 year old who's got a family to support - but in reality how important is (sorry folks for the UK centric references here) - Britain's Got Talent, The Apprentice, Manchester United, The Wii, Eastenders, having a half price, sale discounted sofa for Christmas, Easter and every day with Y in?
I put this out here with reservations and it is completely untested as a hypothesis!...I wonder if blokes/dads have a harder time grasping this than women/mothers...who have a leg up through giving birth, and no matter how us guys try our best to be involved we cannot go through the same emotional roller-coaster experience as a woman, who are much more finely attuned and appreciate much earlier as a consequence, that when it comes down to it, we're only on this earth once. I think mums get to this stage earlier and with much more self awareness wrapped around it and we blokes are slower to "get it". Sometimes too late.
I, for one am trying to catch up and get it and hope that I might be able to recover. I consider myself to be in "recovery". And for me that's what this process is about. To stop stressing about the peripheral stuff and concentrate on the important stuff - love, relationships, friends, communication with people & just being...and enjoying it!
I accept that when a sitch develops likes this one - and mine for that matter, its clear why things like recliners and mowers matter, but I suppose what I want to say is:
"take time to see things clearly"
"what matters is your daughter"
"and your love and friendship with your W"
One of the things I have had to get to grips with is that I cannot determine what W thinks, does, feels. I can have an influence but ultimately, decisions/feelngs/thoughts have to be "her choice".
Mike, find a way to stay in the game! Remember - its not over till the whistle blows!
{{{{man hugs}}}}
Best - GFI
Me: 40ish W: 40ish Together: 20 ish years Married: 10ish Years
