Been here for months - time to tell my story

[mulesqb]

I also forgot to mention that during our talk in the morning I told her that through this entire thing I have never stopped loving her for one minute. She thanked me for saying that and said that it meant a lot. She said that she does care about me a lot.

I told her that I felt she takes advantage of my love for her by doing a lot of the things that she does because she knows I am always there for her. She agreed that she does that.

Also - her Dad just called me and said he can't stand by anymore. He is coming home tomorrow and he is going to visit her on Friday and demand that she seek some help before she goes through with anything. She has a very special place for her father but hasn't confided in him during this because she feels he would be disappointed in her. I don't know if this is a good idea - but i am so worn out right now - I don't know what to tell him.

[Bworl]

It sounds very mid-life crisis like to me. The sadness and dissatisfaction, especially from things that used to bring joy.

Just for her own health, she really should see a doctor. She is of an age now where there could certainly be physical issues driving some of her unrest. The problem is that in her current state it will be very difficult for you to convince her of that.

As for the involvement of her Dad, I'll just say that you want to be sure that it's clear YOU did not ask him to intervene. Also, you need to be realistic and know that if things go south in a hurry, she is still their daughter. Personally I would avoid confiding in them or sharing too much personal stuff with them. As my friend FIB can tell you, it can come back to bite you in the butt.

Well, so here you are with basically the ILYBINILWY speech essentially being delivered again, this time with her expressing a desire for a separation. Her behavior has alienated your boys to the point that they are negatively affected. There is little physical intimacy between the two of you, and you are resorting to walking on egg shells around her.

Not a good situation.

Assuming you still love her and are willing to put in some more possibly hard and painful work on the chance that things can be healed...

I think you do in fact need to let her go. Unconditional love says that if she feels she must leave to make things right inside herself, you let her go.

That doesn't mean that you have to do the work for her. Trouble with that is that she may never do the actual work to make it happen. I've seen far too many of these situations where the messed up spouse is too messed up to actually make a break the right way. Often they will hang around until they've taken some really terrible step that forces the separation.

Obviously if she wants to be on her own, she's going to have to start working again. And since her relationship with the boys is strained and she admittedly has trouble being around them, it sounds like you'll be custodial parent and probably be the one to stay at home.

When is MC scheduled again? It sounds to me like you have a topic for the next meeting.

It will help you through this process if you can think of her as someone who has an illness that needs treating. If she is truly in crisis right now, there's alot going on inside her that she can't quite get a grip on. Extending some REALISTIC compassion may help you approach this more lovingly, rather than out of the anger and frustration that you will naturally feel for what she is doing.

Of course, if other parties become involved, all bets are off.

It's time for a calm and non-emotional conversation about exactly WHAT she feels like she needs to do right now. Then decide whether you can live with that. And if so, make it happen.

Then you'll really be DB'ing.


Blessings,

Bill

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Good stuff, Bill. Mules, if it's worth anything, I agree with this approach.

Puppy

[Phoenixdeux]

Mules,

Keep in mind that this really is HER issue. It's not always what you've done or didn't do. She needs to work through this stuff. I personally think she returned too soon, and I'm not exactly sure why....I hope that being around the neighbor didn't have anything to do with it. Here he is talking about leaving his wife, and now your wife is talking about needing separation.

Anyway, I would like to point out a few things:
1) I think you should tone down the "Mr. Fix-it". These suggestions about seeing someone for depression and getting meds, or whatever, are classic Mr. Fix-it. And what's even worse, her dad is coming to be Mr. Fix-it also. She's going to run for the hills.

2) Just because she said she wants to work on the marriage doesn't mean you have to apply so much pressure. It feels to me like you are hovering around her, "what's wrong, can I help", babying her, being excessively nice, and Mr. helpful. You talk about the status of the R too much. It just seems like too much to me and I'm not surprised she's feeling down about it; she's forced to stare her feelings in the face all the time. I'd suggest that you start focusing more on yourself and your kids. Give her space. Detach from this drama. Just consider that she's the one that needs to deal with her own issues....so give her space to do so.

My suggestion: For the next week, don't pulse her about her feelings. Don't ask if everything is okay. Don't even look to see if she appears depressed. If she broaches any subject, then listen, but don't offer advice. Let her take responsibility for herself. And also, don't mention the MC again. You are trying to logic her into staying with you. It isn't going to work.

[mulesqb]

Hey Bill - I still love her, just a bit exasperated right now and feel used. I am ready to let her go. I just have a lot of anger right now. I feel better when I am not around her but I still think about the sitch 24/7.

She tried to approach me this morning to talk calmly, but I was too upset about last night. I have been holding things in and walking on egg shells for so long that I can't be civil this very minute. I need some time away from her. Hopefully by tonight I could at least talk.

I have a MC session this afternoon. This is the one that my W scheduled and is now not coming to. She said "what's the point?". This after last week saying that we are finally getting to the crux of the sitch.

I truly do feel compassion for her. But my love for my sons right now has taken that over. My oldest son really got to me last night. He is really hurting. He was almost apologetic about us having to attend this great event for him last night. That's what hurts right now. I just want to scream at my W and say - look what you are doing!!! But I can't - I hold things like that in.

I have nothing to do with the involvement of her Dad but I am sure she will blame it on me anyway. At this point, it doesn't matter to me. I am the enemy in her eyes no matter what I try.

She will be around the boys and do what she has to do. But that is just it - she'll do what she has to do - it just isn't what she wants to do. She says all the right things to everyone - she just doesn't do them.

She just started a part-time job that pays next to nothing. So if we go the legal route I guess she will have to get a real job that makes real money. Real Estate in our area is terrible right now - it will be such a shame if we have to sell the house right now and do this. But I guess at least that gets us away from the neighbors for the time being.

When we have calm conversations about what she wants right not - all she says is "I don't know".

I am the total family man - so while I am probably coming across very frustrated right now - i am still completely dedicated to doing whatever it takes for my marriage and my family - as painful as that is right now. It's just that I was so strong just 24 hours ago and my S made me realize I was not seeing everything clearly. I have been trying so hard with her, that I was not seeing just how bad they are hurting. Makes me feel like a bad parent.

[mulesqb]

PDT - It's worth a lot. I'm really hurting right now - crying at my desk at work - and I'm the boss here.

[Bworl]

I think you have a good pair of possible courses of action with what PD and I have shared.

I will confess that I don't handle uncertainty well. I prefer that everything be on the table and decisions be made as to what the next step is. Hence, my suggestions.

If you are able to be patient and allow this to unfold a bit more, than I think PD's approach is very reasonable.

I do still believe that there could be physical issues at work here and that a physical at the least would be helpful. Maybe some of our medical friends here could address whether or not some of your wife's depression like symptoms could be medical or not.

And as for MC, unless she is opposed I would continue. But again, I'm a "better out than in" kind of person and would rather her have a forum for expressing her thoughts that is more neutral than the family meeting for example.


Bill

[Bworl]

I have been trying so hard with her, that I was not seeing just how bad they are hurting. Makes me feel like a bad parent.

And you can strike this from your thought process.

My youngest (15 at the time) saw me in some terrible states when my ex left. He went through hell for nearly three months living with me in a high state of anxiety and depression. He KNEW what was going on and later told me that the hardest part was he didn't know what to DO for me. Think about how that makes you feel as a man and father.

You are a true father and your boys know this. They know you are hurting, they know they are hurting. They even know their mother is hurting, but they don't know what to do.

All you have to do is love them the way you know how.


Bill

[mulesqb]

Keep in mind that this really is HER issue. It's not always what you've done or didn't do. She needs to work through this stuff. I personally think she returned too soon, and I'm not exactly sure why....I hope that being around the neighbor didn't have anything to do with it. Here he is talking about leaving his wife, and now your wife is talking about needing separation.

I knew all along that she returned too soon. I didn't know how to handle. The neighbor appears to be getting along well with his W right now - for the time being. I don't trust anything or anybody and nothing would surprise me.

1) I think you should tone down the "Mr. Fix-it". These suggestions about seeing someone for depression and getting meds, or whatever, are classic Mr. Fix-it. And what's even worse, her dad is coming to be Mr. Fix-it also. She's going to run for the hills.

Thanks on this. Once again i didn't realize I was doing this - I have to change my mindset. I told her Dad that I wouldn't do it if I was in his shoes and wanted to keep a good R with his daughter. He said that he just can't sit back and do nothing anymore. She has been talking a lot about her Dad lately, like she is worried something is going to happen to him. He has heart problems and is very overweight - i am very worried about him.

Just because she said she wants to work on the marriage doesn't mean you have to apply so much pressure. It feels to me like you are hovering around her, "what's wrong, can I help", babying her, being excessively nice, and Mr. helpful. You talk about the status of the R too much. It just seems like too much to me and I'm not surprised she's feeling down about it; she's forced to stare her feelings in the face all the time. I'd suggest that you start focusing more on yourself and your kids. Give her space. Detach from this drama. Just consider that she's the one that needs to deal with her own issues....so give her space to do so.

Ok - Honestly, I don't hover around her. Yesterday was really the only R talk we've had since the end of the separation. It seems when I try to give her space she pulls at me. I'll be more aware of this. I really want to detach from this. I could use the break

My suggestion: For the next week, don't pulse her about her feelings. Don't ask if everything is okay. Don't even look to see if she appears depressed. If she broaches any subject, then listen, but don't offer advice. Let her take responsibility for herself. And also, don't mention the MC again. You are trying to logic her into staying with you. It isn't going to work.

Ok - I wasn't planning on mentioning the MC again. I'll have to stop with the advice. Definitely one of my faults. It just seems that when she mentions these things she is looking for advice from me - if she takes that approach - how should I handle it?

[mulesqb]

You are a true father and your boys know this. They know you are hurting, they know they are hurting. They even know their mother is hurting, but they don't know what to do.

Thanks Bill - I really needed to hear that right now. I will be there for them big time going forward.