I'm not sure that putting your foot down by telling her she can only come home if she goes to see a psychiatrist is a winning move. She hasn't been open to that so far at least.
Trial separation vs legal separation? That's probably something to explore in your consult with the lawyer today.
Just my perspective, but I think you need to be very aware of how she is responding to things if you do separate. The "being less available" thing is something that I agree with in principle, but I do get the impression that your wife perceives that she is not loved (perhaps because she feels unloveable). I would be inclined to feel as though I needed to be sure and offer small signs of my continued love and commitment to her. Nothing big and flashy or over the top, but I'm afraid that shutting her off only reinforces the message that she is on the outs with the family.
Again, many of these dynamics change significantly if her separation leads to another man. But I think you're on that already.
And by the way, two months is a long time. Seeing as how you both barely made it a week last time, maybe a month is a good starting point.
I agree that your wife needs to see someone. I'm not sure if it's a psychiatrist or a regular doctor.
Stay strong.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Thanks Bill - I have been strong for weeks - but this latest turn has set me back a bit. I think everyone around her except the neighbors know that she needs help, but nobody can get through to her. It's an impossible sitch. I'm very sad. We have achieved everything we talked about as a couple - 3 beautiful kids, built our home, nice quiet setting -- we really can enjoy life and thank God and instead she's going to blow the entire thing up. She even agrees that she has everything she ever wanted but can't articulate why she is unhappy - so this is her answer. So sad, so frustrating. How can you help someone that won't accept help? I have to let go and deep down really can't.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
Mules....sorry that things have turned a bit in the wrong direction. Again, I think you are getting excellent advice here.
In my sitch, the most difficult thing to do was to understand that horrible word 'detach' and to do it 'lovingly'. My W...your W....are in a horrible state. They are hurting and lost. They have issues that you and I cannot fix.
I only have a few comments to add. Several times in your posts you wrote that 'you are angry'. Let me tell you something. Women know this. They see it. They sniff it out like bloodhounds. Even when you 'act as if' you aren't, it comes across. No one wants to be around an angry person. Find a way to lose it...detach. That word was hard for me to understand until I read a paragraph by John Gray in Venus and Mars: Starting Over. He writes specifically that when we fall in love, we become attached to ONE person. We feel we can only be loved by THAT person and if we lose THAT person, our world ends. Detaching means that you begin to realize....just like all the 'BetterMen' posted above, that you are a good father, a good man, someone to be loved.....and that you must detach from the thought that ONLY your W will love you.
Dump your W?
No.
Lovingly leave her alone. Understand that she is confused and that 'our' constant rantings and ravings are 'smothering' to them. Somehow, you must do the classic line and 'open the door'. Let her know that you love her but also, enough that you will step aside and let her go and let her work things out herself.
Step out of the DB world for a minute and look at your W. Is there anything you can say or do now that will bring her back?
No. The bolt of lightening that I waited for...that you pray for..is not coming...at least for now. Therefore, you must now commit your focus and energies on YOU....your son....etc. Your W must find her way.
DO take care of yourself. DO see the attorney and begin to educate yourself. DO let your W do the work. Do let your FIL know that you love her and still support her and the M.
DON'T push the L on her. DON'T start the process right now, let her do that, i.e., don't facilitate anything. DON'T confide in your FIL. He WILL take her side if she decides to file.
Stop fighting this right now. WAW or MLC, your W is lost, hurt and confused. You can't bring her back to you but you CAN push her further away.
I agree with Bill to let go...but without anger...and in a way that she knows that you are still there to listen. We don't want to spurt out 'I love you's' and pressure, but, in the context of 'I love you deeply enough XXX that I want you to be happy...to find your happiness'...I think it is quite appropriate.
Hang in there. We've been thru it. I feel your pain and anxiety. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
FIB - Thanks so much for the great advice. Here's the thing - I try to detach and lovingly leave her alone. It just seems to make her angrier. It's like no matter what i do she is just so mad at me - and I don't know what i did.
Yesterday she had a bad day with the kids. I was supposed to go out with a friend. It's the same pattern - because I was going out she seemed to make a crisis out of something where she called her parents to come over and help her. Now I feel guilty about my plans - but after talking to the therapist - she told me to stop riding in and saving the day - so I stuck to my plans last night.
This morning she went ballistic to the verge of a breakdown. I finally hugged her and said that because i love her I hate to see her like this and to please stop so we can be civil towards each other. She calmed down and we were able to talk then. But she said things like she doesn't want to be with the kids anymore either (the kids confronted her yesterday about the neighbors and said some harsh words to her - that led to her bad day). She wants out of this marriage and that knows once she does - that 2 months down the road she'll regret it. She actually said that. So i just responded that I'm sorry she feels that way, I can't imagine what she's going through but i do care.
I also think yesterday's episode was because she knew I was seeing the lawyer. I didn't even mention it to her yesterday but she pressed me about it this morning. I just said that I met with A lawyer - not MY lawyer for informational purposes and that's it. She said that I was being sneaky and secretive and plotting this big thing to make her look like a mental mess. I didn't respond - because I didn't know what to say to that.
My focus is on the kids. She said this morning that she will no longer take them or attend any of their baseball games this summer. I said that I can't be in 3 places at once. She said that I'll have to find help then - so I said ok.
Right now I just want to slow down and take care of my boys and stay away from her. But that will be hard with my 8th grade son graduating tomorrow. I told her that I will no longer spend any time with the neighbors and she said she already knew that. She is a mess. My FIL talked to her last night and said it was a positive talk. I told him that I don't even want to know what happened. I know she is probably telling them what they want to hear and will eventually let them down. They are wonderful people so i hope she doesn't hurt them again. She has pulled them in a few times only to back way off when she tires of them. If she is telling them the truth , hopefully that will lead to a doctor.
I am so exasperated!!
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
I can't add much because FIB said it all. I agree with his advice wholeheartedly.
Your follow-up to his excellent advice was, "but she gets mad at me when I do that." Mules, your wife can't quit spouting off how she can't take this and doesn't want you or the kids. Even if she gets upset, at some point she has to accept that when you go your separate ways that you will continue to have a life. It's a good sign that she gets upset or she says she'll regret it in two months, but every time she takes a step your way (which is how I perceive her being upset with you doing your own thing), doesn't mean you take a giant leap her way. Ride this out. Lovingly detach. Continue to focus on your kids and you. As FIB said, you can't save her...she needs to save herself.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
I can't add much because FIB said it all. I agree with his advice wholeheartedly.
Your follow-up to his excellent advice was, "but she gets mad at me when I do that." Mules, your wife can't quit spouting off how she can't take this and doesn't want you or the kids. Even if she gets upset, at some point she has to accept that when you go your separate ways that you will continue to have a life. It's a good sign that she gets upset or she says she'll regret it in two months, but every time she takes a step your way (which is how I perceive her being upset with you doing your own thing), doesn't mean you take a giant leap her way. Ride this out. Lovingly detach. Continue to focus on your kids and you. As FIB said, you can't save her...she needs to save herself.
It's time for them to stop ripping on Mom about the neighbors.
Tell them they can rip on YOU if they're feeling frustrated.
You're in the hot seat my friend. It sounds to me like every day that goes by puts your wife deeper into her confusion and frustration, and that she functions more poorly as well.
You need to be open and honest with her. If she asks about the lawyer, tell her why you went and what you discussed (as long as it wasn't something sensitive).
Let her know that you understand that she is struggling, even if you're not sure why. She's not sure why herself. To me this is very indicative of mid life crisis. Again I will say that she desperately needs someone to talk to, probably on a weekly basis. I'm not sure how you can make that happen, but I think I would be trying to gently encourage that at every opportunity.
As for you, detachment becomes the order of the day. Detachment does NOT mean that you shut her out! Detachment means that you begin working on convincing yourself that THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
Detachment means that you stop allowing her actions to make YOU feel bad. You tell yourself over and over again that she is messed up inside, that she is struggling, that she doesn't know what's going on, and that all these things cause her to FAIL at things she used to be good at. They do NOT reflect on you or the boys.
Detachment allows you to continue to love her unconditionally and sympathetically. It allows you to acknowledge her pain, without carrying around your own because of her actions.
Again, she has NOT strayed from the marriage with another and I think this is a big point. Hopefully that will not change.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
It's a good sign that she gets upset or she says she'll regret it in two months, but every time she takes a step your way (which is how I perceive her being upset with you doing your own thing), doesn't mean you take a giant leap her way. Ride this out. Lovingly detach. Continue to focus on your kids and you. As FIB said, you can't save her...she needs to save herself.
Phoenix - I don't mean to take any leap her way - I really am trying to do just the opposite. What did I do to make you think that? I'm having a hard time knowing what to do on spur of the moment things. It's very hard now living in the same house.
When I detach she seems to be all over me about it - what do i do then?? I am really not trying to save her anymore - at least in my head that is the way I'm thinking. I truly feel better now when i am not around her - it is taking the pressure off. She wants me to discipline the boys for confronting her yesterday - but I really feel they have a right to speak their mind about not wanting to spend any time with the neighbors. I think it's a compliment to my W that they want her to be with them. She doesn't see it that way. How do I handle it?? I don't want to discipline them - they are hurting very badly right now and just want their parents back together - that is not going to happen so I want to love them the best i can - i certainly don't want to make them feel bad for wanting that. They feel abandoned right now. It's terrible.
I really think she is very close to a major breakdown or she will just head further into self destruction. If that happens in my presence - what do i do??? I'm really hoping she just goes and stays with her parents for some time. I think she is going to quit her job today. 2nd time in 3 weeks.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
You're in the hot seat my friend. It sounds to me like every day that goes by puts your wife deeper into her confusion and frustration, and that she functions more poorly as well.
This is definitely accurate.
Quote:
You need to be open and honest with her. If she asks about the lawyer, tell her why you went and what you discussed (as long as it wasn't something sensitive).
I did tell her - one of the things is that she doesn't remember a lot of our conversations now. I told her exactly how we discussed this yesterday. She didn't recall and got mad. Should I walk away when she gets mad - I just don't know how to handle. Quite honestly right now, I need space from her because I feel like everything I do is wrong no matter what.
Quote:
Let her know that you understand that she is struggling, even if you're not sure why. She's not sure why herself. To me this is very indicative of mid life crisis. Again I will say that she desperately needs someone to talk to, probably on a weekly basis. I'm not sure how you can make that happen, but I think I would be trying to gently encourage that at every opportunity.
This is the issue - she won't talk to anyone - I don't know how to make it happen. Her father is trying. He said he is making progress. Her father and I agreed not to confide about this stuff anymore.
Quote:
Detachment does NOT mean that you shut her out! Detachment means that you begin working on convincing yourself that THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!
Detachment means that you stop allowing her actions to make YOU feel bad. You tell yourself over and over again that she is messed up inside, that she is struggling, that she doesn't know what's going on, and that all these things cause her to FAIL at things she used to be good at. They do NOT reflect on you or the boys.
Detachment allows you to continue to love her unconditionally and sympathetically. It allows you to acknowledge her pain, without carrying around your own because of her actions.
Thank you for this - because while I was trying I was not doing it correctly, I will continue reading this to get the proper mindset.
Quote:
Again, she has NOT strayed from the marriage with another and I think this is a big point. Hopefully that will not change.
From your viewpoint - why do you think she has not strayed?? Is it something that gives me hope or am I just lucky at this point?
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
Why don't you just ask me how to build an engine that runs on seawater, lol?
Wouldn't you like to believe it's because inside of her, the love for you has not truly gone away?
Look, I hate to say too much, because if it does happen at some point, you will be even more devastated then.
The fact of the matter is that she is lost, unhappy, confused, and she doesn't appear to know why. In that state, many of these MLC'ers begin "the search." They begin grasping for anything and everything that they think will ease the unrest inside and give them at least a temporary high.
That's where the leaving comes from. And the strange and expensive purchases. And, ultimately, the affairs.
To this point, your wife seems to be pretty good about at least realizing that she's a mess inside. Many of our spouses just assumed WE were screwed up and that's why they weren't happy and they took off with the first person who smiled at them.
While you hate that she's hurting, and while you hate the effect it's having on your family, be glad that she seems to be aware that there is something wrong inside. AND that she realizes that running from all of you will end up NOT helping things in the end.
The downside to that is that you may be dealing with an MLC spouse living in your house. But that's where your love, understanding, and TRUE detachment will be key. YOU LOVE THIS WOMAN! You may have to remind your boys that THEY LOVE HER TOO. And perhaps they don't quite appreciate that Mom is in a bad way right now.
Strength and honor my friend.
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
