'Do you think that maybe she is reaching out to you about D11's behavior and looking for help with that sitch?'
If I were to do a nono here & read between the lines I think you are right and this might of been what I couldn't put my finger on not that she is looking for validation, but wanting me to form a plan with her, or maybe talking with D11 about it more than I have.
'Do you think that D11 may need a some IC to help her deal with the sitch?'
You & I have talked about this before and I think I need to come out of my darkness a bit and 'push'(bad word) W on this I have kinda let her run with the kids and not said much about it I think it is time to pull back on the reins some and take abit of control on this very issue.
'Do you think D11 might be taking this out on your W because she is spending more time with W than with you?? That happens in S and D's. The child will play one parent against the other sometimes.'
The kids continually saw me being nice and acting 'as if' even though she would not talk to me or would yell at me I am sure that is playing into it. I don't know if she is 'playing' her but actually acting out her anger for the sitch since she is with her more I think you are right and so W gets the majority of it that would make sense.
'I'm sure she is in turmoil. I'm sure she is greatly conflicted. Just keep doing what your doing for now. Keep validating and let her talk as much as she wants. Don't get dragged into an R talk and don't read anything into anything. You have seen how the WAW is..'
I hear ya loud and clear I will stay the path
'Do you think that maybe if YOU and YOUR W sat D11 down and talked to her about the sitch that it would show a united front from your W and you when dealing with the D11?'
I think this is a great idea, maybe even better than what I stated above with just doing it by myself.
Here is a thought, I am just going by what W has said, could it be that maybe she is reading more into something that isn't there with D11 because it is easier for her to do that than to blame herself....just a thought?
Here is a thought, I am just going by what W has said, could it be that maybe she is reading more into something that isn't there with D11 because it is easier for her to do that than to blame herself....just a thought
I don't know for sure on this. WAW's are unpredictable as hell.
Do you think that maybe you should talk to D11 alone first and get an idea what is running through her head?
Does D17 have anything to do with D11?
Would she and D11 talk at all?
Maybe instead of "pushing" the W on D11's IC maybe just suggest it to her due to this incident?
Quote:
'Do you think that maybe if YOU and YOUR W sat D11 down and talked to her about the sitch that it would show a united front from your W and you when dealing with the D11?'
I think this is a great idea, maybe even better than what I stated above with just doing it by myself.
I know from experience that a united front as far as stuff(disipline)etc. with the kids is from a W's perspective...a great thing. If you do nothing then she thinks you won't help her with the kids, that your a bad dad, that you don't care enough about them to help. You do to much she thinks you're butting in. This will be tricky to do with D11. If she truly blames the W, then she will surely blurt it out during your talk with her..you must be wary that the D11 talk is not turned into a R talk between you and W if you go this route.
"I don't know for sure on this. WAW's are unpredictable as hell."
My point exactly is this believe less than 50% of what she is saying, dang this is tough.
"Do you think that maybe you should talk to D11 alone first and get an idea what is running through her head?"
Am leaning towards your other option of being a 'united front' with W.
"Does D17 have anything to do with D11?"
D17 has basically checked out, too much going on in her life with boys & work & now that it is summer all she wants to do is hang with friends. D11 is just kinda lost in all of this I think.
"Would she and D11 talk at all?"
How do I say this, um I love her dearly but she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. Unless it has something to do with fashion she has no use for it.
"Maybe instead of "pushing" the W on D11's IC maybe just suggest it to her due to this incident?"
I like this idea best, just not quite sure how to carry it off without seeming controlling on the sitch.
"I know from experience that a united front as far as stuff(disipline)etc. with the kids is from a W's perspective...a great thing. If you do nothing then she thinks you won't help her with the kids, that your a bad dad, that you don't care enough about them to help. You do to much she thinks you're butting in. This will be tricky to do with D11. If she truly blames the W, then she will surely blurt it out during your talk with her..you must be wary that the D11 talk is not turned into a R talk between you and W if you go this route."
Damned if I do damned if I don't. If it goes this route also need to becareful with my words so if they get back to W they aren't taken wrong. God this is fun...
I think you should be united. I think you should go to your W and say, "I have been thinking about our discussion last night and maybe we both need to set D11 down and have a talk with her. We are both to blame for our M problems and we need to discuss that with her. What do you think? She will say either yes let's do it or no, I'm not being blamed, it's your fault..
I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to show your W that you want to do this for your D11 best interest..you don't want it to turn into a blame game or an R talk.
You have to be united for the child in this or it won't work. If either of you start the blame game then an R talk is on the way..your WAW will steer you into it. They can do it without even thinking about it cause they know us.
The D11 IC issue..you could say something like, W do you know if D11 has anyone to talk to about this situation now?? Like a friend, teacher, grandparent, etc..your W will probably say no, then just say, "do you think she may benefit from a few counseling sessions just so she could talk to someone?? D11 needs to be able to learn to channel her anger and feelings about this into something constructive and not take it out in some other way or on somebody. If W says yes, then say, I'll start looking for good counselors in the area and when I get a list together I'll let you know what I find and we can decide who to pick....
Man be careful here..Land mines everywhere..
These are just my opinions, it could mean backslide or could make you a hero in W's eyes..
Please don't hold me responsible for the carnage or fallout if it fails.
I think you should be united. I think you should go to your W and say, "I have been thinking about our discussion last night and maybe we both need to set D11 down and have a talk with her. We are both to blame for our M problems and we need to discuss that with her. What do you think? She will say either yes let's do it or no, I'm not being blamed, it's your fault..
I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to show your W that you want to do this for your D11 best interest..you don't want it to turn into a blame game or an R talk.
You have to be united for the child in this or it won't work. If either of you start the blame game then an R talk is on the way..your WAW will steer you into it. They can do it without even thinking about it cause they know us.
The D11 IC issue..you could say something like, W do you know if D11 has anyone to talk to about this situation now?? Like a friend, teacher, grandparent, etc..your W will probably say no, then just say, "do you think she may benefit from a few counseling sessions just so she could talk to someone?? D11 needs to be able to learn to channel her anger and feelings about this into something constructive and not take it out in some other way or on somebody. If W says yes, then say, I'll start looking for good counselors in the area and when I get a list together I'll let you know what I find and we can decide who to pick....
Man be careful here..Land mines everywhere..
These are just my opinions, it could mean backslide or could make you a hero in W's eyes..
Please don't hold me responsible for the carnage or fallout if it fails.
Brian, I have to agree with what Mike has said here.
This is a two sided sword, it can mean that your W is looking for advice from you on how to handle the situation or it could also mean that she is starting to feel bad about what she has done and this is her way of telling you by putting your D in the middle. I am seeing either one of these fit your sitch right now. Be careful on how you move forward with it.
OK, the more I think about this, I believe your W is opening up to you. In many cases, or at least in mine and Mike's, WAW's believe that the kids will be fine no matter what happens. They are in denial and will not let you know anything if they feel the kids are hurting through this process. If you W is like many other's that walk away, this is more than just letting you know how your D is feeling, she is opening up because she is feeling guilt. Of course this is just my opinion, see what others have to say about it and then go from there.
This could be long so get a bowl of popcorn and a pop.
W had started texting me in early evening about some things that she had in mind for D11 to do for summer, which were all good ideas and sounded fun plus W was going to pay for all of it as she stills owes the house some money. So I was validating her ideas & thoughts and agreed on the plans. She then texts back "call me".
I call her thinking okay didn't have time to run anything by anybody on the board, but saw it as an 'in' to talk about the last convo we had about D11. W says "was talking to D11 at supper and decided to ask what she was angry about or who she was angry with." D11 says, "I'm not angry at anybody, just upset that I wanted to do some things with friends last Sunday at a park and I wasn't sure if you would let me go so I didn't ask." W says, "you should have asked instead of making me think you were mad at me for the sitch we are in." D11 says, "oh no it's not that at all I understand sorta just wished that we wouldn't have had to leave." W says, "you know that daddy & me love you and want what's best and know that if you have questions or feel weird we will take you anywhere to talk to somebody, or you know you can talk to your sister or anybody (Mike are you hearin this dead on brother)." D11 says, "yes I know I am fine right now but there is something?" W says, "whats that?" D11 says, "well you nag at me too much". LOL W says, "well you always give me attitude about brushing teeth or takin a shower." D11 says, "I know but it's not like I'm not going to do it." W says, "there are rules in both houses and you need to follow them, but when it comes to important things daddy and me are as 'one'". (Mike ya still listening? Spot on man) W then says to me, "I didn't mean to step on your toes with this it just was bothering me. Mind you I was saying nothing while she told me all of this, just validated and agreed. I replied to her, "you didn't step on toes at all, I in fact was going to suggest that we need to do something with D11 cause it wasn't fair for her to treat you that way when we are both equally at fault, and that we handle it as a united front." I told her she did well and she agreed on the united front in the future.
So Mike & Ping guess what is coming next? You got it... a R talk started by her, but thanks to you guys I was expecting it TY.
I decided since she started it & it being the 1st time she was willing to talk about it I would venture along cautiously and listen to what she had to say.
She started off with, "you seem so happy now, when I saw you at soccer games or the other day at Mickie D's you have been so upbeat about things, was I such a bi**h to live with that now that I am gone you're happier w/o me?" I said, "I can see how you would feel that way, but honestly it has nothing to do with that." She said, "I must have really been a thorn in your ars for you to be sooo happy now." I said, " I can see how you would assume that, but don't assume that is not right of you to do." I said, "I am dealing with the sitch that has been dealt and am working on some things I didn't like about me, my position on this has not changed as I have told you before." She says, "as I said the other night I really am working through this and trying to find myself & what went wrong (I validate), but I made my bed and now I must lie in it and think it is too late cause you seem to be moving on." (Is she at the same website I am at WTF?) I chose not to answer on this one and we moved on.
She then proceeds to apologize for the things she has done and that she knows she has really put us in a BIG financial crunch, but she just didn't know what else to do she said, "it was flight or fight" (SC/Gypsy spot on) She goes on to say, "it wasn't just about us it was about the kids & it was probably a bad decision to move but I was just lost, I am not happy in my job or what I am doing." I have thought all along it might be abit of MLC on her part and was just tieing everything up into 1 large ball of anger. She said, "the anger was just eating me up and it was slowly killing me, I know that I treated you so badly the last 9 months and it rubbed off on the kids I am sooo sorry for that, I don't blame you for moving on." I chose to answer here, may not have been up to Db standards but I said, "I have told you in the past my stance & that is to stand for our marriage, I have no time line (bad gives her room to play limbo) you asked for space I did not stop you, the only thing I asked was that you not make decisions on the basis of your 'pride' & not being able to say you might have been wrong, it is okay to be wrong and not to judge my actions as any type of a sign." (I know that was wrong).
I told her that in the next week or 2 we would have to sit down and discuss the direction of the house as she now knows and admits that there is noway I can afford it alone, and she feels terrible for signing a years lease on the place she is in now so she agreed to this. The second thing was I asked her if she would be willing to consider a time frame in the near future that we could sit down and reevaluate where we are at and discuss a direction, to which she agreed.
I know this is long sorry. IMO there were some positives she was laughing as I was also she agreed that there is no reason to lay blame anymore that we both had a part in it she realizes her part and that the past is just that the past it is over. This was about a 2 1/2 hr convo that was filled with validation acceptance and regret on both parties. She did say she was feeling better but that she had a long road to go to figure things out, I said simply that's fine for now. That's about it sorry again it was so long I am sure I might have left some things out but you get the gist of it....
This could be long so get a bowl of popcorn and a pop.
W had started texting me in early evening about some things that she had in mind for D11 to do for summer, which were all good ideas and sounded fun plus W was going to pay for all of it as she stills owes the house some money. So I was validating her ideas & thoughts and agreed on the plans. She then texts back "call me".
I call her thinking okay didn't have time to run anything by anybody on the board, but saw it as an 'in' to talk about the last convo we had about D11. W says "was talking to D11 at supper and decided to ask what she was angry about or who she was angry with." D11 says, "I'm not angry at anybody, just upset that I wanted to do some things with friends last Sunday at a park and I wasn't sure if you would let me go so I didn't ask." W says, "you should have asked instead of making me think you were mad at me for the sitch we are in." D11 says, "oh no it's not that at all I understand sorta just wished that we wouldn't have had to leave." W says, "you know that daddy & me love you and want what's best and know that if you have questions or feel weird we will take you anywhere to talk to somebody, or you know you can talk to your sister or anybody (Mike are you hearin this dead on brother)." D11 says, "yes I know I am fine right now but there is something?" W says, "whats that?" D11 says, "well you nag at me too much". LOL W says, "well you always give me attitude about brushing teeth or takin a shower." D11 says, "I know but it's not like I'm not going to do it." W says, "there are rules in both houses and you need to follow them, but when it comes to important things daddy and me are as 'one'". (Mike ya still listening? Spot on man) W then says to me, "I didn't mean to step on your toes with this it just was bothering me. Mind you I was saying nothing while she told me all of this, just validated and agreed. I replied to her, "you didn't step on toes at all, I in fact was going to suggest that we need to do something with D11 cause it wasn't fair for her to treat you that way when we are both equally at fault, and that we handle it as a united front." I told her she did well and she agreed on the united front in the future.
So Mike & Ping guess what is coming next? You got it... a R talk started by her, but thanks to you guys I was expecting it TY.
I decided since she started it & it being the 1st time she was willing to talk about it I would venture along cautiously and listen to what she had to say.
She started off with, "you seem so happy now, when I saw you at soccer games or the other day at Mickie D's you have been so upbeat about things, was I such a bi**h to live with that now that I am gone you're happier w/o me?" I said, "I can see how you would feel that way, but honestly it has nothing to do with that." She said, "I must have really been a thorn in your ars for you to be sooo happy now." I said, " I can see how you would assume that, but don't assume that is not right of you to do." I said, "I am dealing with the sitch that has been dealt and am working on some things I didn't like about me, my position on this has not changed as I have told you before." She says, "as I said the other night I really am working through this and trying to find myself & what went wrong (I validate), but I made my bed and now I must lie in it and think it is too late cause you seem to be moving on." (Is she at the same website I am at WTF?) I chose not to answer on this one and we moved on.
She then proceeds to apologize for the things she has done and that she knows she has really put us in a BIG financial crunch, but she just didn't know what else to do she said, "it was flight or fight" (SC/Gypsy spot on) She goes on to say, "it wasn't just about us it was about the kids & it was probably a bad decision to move but I was just lost, I am not happy in my job or what I am doing." I have thought all along it might be abit of MLC on her part and was just tieing everything up into 1 large ball of anger. She said, "the anger was just eating me up and it was slowly killing me, I know that I treated you so badly the last 9 months and it rubbed off on the kids I am sooo sorry for that, I don't blame you for moving on." I chose to answer here, may not have been up to Db standards but I said, "I have told you in the past my stance & that is to stand for our marriage, I have no time line (bad gives her room to play limbo) you asked for space I did not stop you, the only thing I asked was that you not make decisions on the basis of your 'pride' & not being able to say you might have been wrong, it is okay to be wrong and not to judge my actions as any type of a sign." (I know that was wrong).
I told her that in the next week or 2 we would have to sit down and discuss the direction of the house as she now knows and admits that there is noway I can afford it alone, and she feels terrible for signing a years lease on the place she is in now so she agreed to this. The second thing was I asked her if she would be willing to consider a time frame in the near future that we could sit down and reevaluate where we are at and discuss a direction, to which she agreed.
I know this is long sorry. IMO there were some positives she was laughing as I was also she agreed that there is no reason to lay blame anymore that we both had a part in it she realizes her part and that the past is just that the past it is over. This was about a 2 1/2 hr convo that was filled with validation acceptance and regret on both parties. She did say she was feeling better but that she had a long road to go to figure things out, I said simply that's fine for now. That's about it sorry again it was so long I am sure I might have left some things out but you get the gist of it....
Brian
Do you think she would go to MC. The house issue is sticky..anyway for her to get out of that lease?? She sure sounds on the fence and that she's worried your moving on. It looks like you handled this OK.
She is reaching out a bit. When do you think you could meet her??
I wonder what would have happened if you had reached out to her a bit??
Is there anyway you could ramp up the friendship at all? Without being pushy??
We really need some more eyes looking at this exchange last night to help evaluate it. I see lots of positives though I don't like the fact that she thinks you may be moving on..
