Ok, I get it. I put on some different lenses. I wasn't going to ever post again and I went dark for about 48 hours on the DB community. She went dark on me. I want dark on her. I was ticked because my thread got locked. blah, blah, blah... a lot of immaturity.
Then I read an old post from M Go Blue. Post #61399 and #61408
"Our MLC spouses blame everything and everyone else for their problems. We all know they need to "Grow Up" and accept responsibility for their own choices. They have created their own world, by the choices and decisions they have made. Until they accept this reality, they will remain stuck in the MLC world. The world where nothing is their fault and everyone else is to blame for their misery and pain."
So I need your help. I need your prayers. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
Craig54, If I get on your nerves then don't read. AmyC, Woman go home... Jack, Sorry about the D comment. It was just that it wasn't fair to be called a troll and everything else. Phoenix, I'm not faking it. SG, Thanks for locking my last thread. Brandnewday, Thank you.
Thank you for saving my life.
Journal:
Wife picks up kids at quarter to 12. She comes in and wants me to kiss her on the cheek. She rubs my arm. Both kids go with her. As she is walking out. I'm polite to her and say you need to respect my boundries. She says she isn't crossing any boundries she is just doing her laundry. I tell her no more laundry. She starts spewing venom again. I will do the kids laundry. I'm calm. She is dropping the F bombs. She leaves. I smile and wave to her.
I text her: You need to let go of your anger. I am not your enemy. I have completely let you go from my heart. You can not hurt me. I will do the childrens laundry.
Next text. I have completely let you go. Good Night.
An hour later, she text back. Good night.
The next day the wife has complete disregard in communicating with me. Still enters house to do laundry and whatever after I repeatedly ask her not to.
I'm dark. I don't respond to her because she hasn't responded to me. Last night she had the kids call me to say they were going down in laws and they were sleeping over. She was going to a picnic to see somebody from high school that she hasn't seen since high school. WTF, she is going to a picnic and not taking the kids. She is dropping them off at 6. She isn't picking them back up. The kids are staying over at inlaws because she has to work the next day and doesn't want to drive. Makes my head spin that there must be someone else in her life. (I know I can not control her. I do not want to know if there is someone else. I can not change it anyway. I have let it go. I have put it in God's hands. I have asked for change in me.) I call my children at 8:45 PM and son is crying he wants me to pick him up. So I do. Mother law tried to manipulate him to stay. She got on the phone and I said I will be there in 15 minutes, and I'll drop him back off in AM. I call her to tell her that I'm picking up son and I will drop him back off at inlaws in morning. She never responds back until this morning. What time did you drop off son. Do you want me to pick up kids after work?
I don't respond until 3 hours later. I droped son off before nine. D was still sleeping I kissed her for you. I said some prayers. She looked so angel like. Yes please pick them up I have class.
I think It's upsetting her more that I'm not reacting to her. I think she didn't want to talk to me yesterday because she doesn't want to hear me say. Why did you come in the house after I asked you to please not too? She knows she is wrong.
I want to keep things calm. I mean she said she was going to take the washer again. I said please take it if you want it. I'm super calm, no emotion.
I found a huge rosary necklace with beads the size of walnuts. I prayed with it the other night. I tried to cry, because I had that down feeling. I only shed a tear. The down feeling went away. I feel freedom by letting her go.
It was the one thing I didn't want to do. I fought with everyone on this board about it. I fought with myself.
Detaching does not mean you stop loving, I hope you understand that. She knows you love her, she knows she has dissapointed you, she knows she is screwing up, but she can't stop this craziness...yet.
I think I told you before, you are the authority figure, she is the beligerant teenager. BUT you can not punish her, instead you make sure you follow through with consequences.
Hell, it's a real balancing act and you will find your footing through trial and error.
You didn't offend anyone here, we have all been there done that and have at least a dozen t-shirts to prove it.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Hey Phil,I am just curious, does your state allow you to utilize the right of first refusal with your kids? I know here if my wife wants to leave the kids with someone else, or let them stay anywhere other than her house, she must notify me and I have the right to take them rather than her letting them stay elsewhere. I have utilized this rule on occasion.
BND is a sharp cookie and a very successful one at that. Jack is right, listen to her words.
That was the first intelligent thing you have said.
Do I believe it.. Lets just say I am on the fence.
"So I need your help. I need your prayers. I'm sorry if I offended anyone."
Ok.
"She comes in and wants me to kiss her on the cheek. She rubs my arm. Both kids go with her. As she is walking out. I'm polite to her and say you need to respect my boundries."
Now I saw the polite part. I am all about boundaries. But you chose to enforce them.. right then? This is just "silly". You absolutely knew that it was going to go bad.. and you did it.
"I text her: You need to let go of your anger. I am not your enemy. I have completely let you go from my heart. You can not hurt me. I will do the childrens laundry."
Alot of people here have said the same thing to you. With the same response you got. I see you coming back to do your laundry.
"I'm dark."
Actually.. you aren't.
"I don't respond to her because she hasn't responded to me."
We call that Expectations here. You still have some. If I was guessing.. I would say you want to be right. Me too.
You have the heart.. you have the capability. You just apply yourself at the wrong times.
"I think It's upsetting her more that I'm not reacting to her."
Because you both feed off it. You need it. You want it. It is very likely the only way you two communicate.
"I think she didn't want to talk to me yesterday because she doesn't want to hear me say. Why did you come in the house after I asked you to please not too? She knows she is wrong."
And you are right. You made the rule. She is just proving you wrong.. every time she does the laundry. Hmmm.. I see someone feeding on the "Drama". I can't tell who quite yet.
"I want to keep things calm."
It is going to be hard.. Are you ready?
"It was the one thing I didn't want to do. I fought with everyone on this board about it. I fought with myself."
Off we go...
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
phil, i am glad you are back. you did not offend me. listen to the old timers. wisdom .
m-54 w-44 children-4 bomb-sept 21 2007 t-21 m-20yrs bomb-sept 23 2007 divorced but not giving up hope, not yethttp://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#post1224023
I don't know if my state has that. However like I said before. Her plan was that the children were going to go with her because that is what the children want. Her plan was shared custody.
Now I have my boy everynight. My daughter stays with her, and I have them both when she works evenings. Her plan isn't working out too good. Then she was at the doorway saying. Maybe someday you will choose to be with mommy.
Besides I would want them to be with their grandma and grandpa if they want to be with her. My daughter is staying down with them tonight. She picked them my son up. Immediately my son called me when he got to her place and wanted to be with me. I was hoping that one of them would stay with her, at least it eases my immagination about a possible another person. She has a free night tonight.
However since I have let it go I no longer have anxiety over that. It's like Sactchel Paige said, our minds are pretty much are worst enemy.
So ok her and I had two pleasant conversations today. When I picked up the boy she was standing at the door and we talked for about five minutes. She actually was telling me what was going on in her life. She seemed like the woman I knew. She was in a hurry to take a shower though and she was standing in her bathrobe at the doorway.
We hugged each other and kissed each others cheek. We also told each other we loved each other. So much for the detachment part huh. The funny part was she put her hand on my chest and rubbed it.
She also called at 10 and wanted to talk to son. I said I would like to talk to my friend. She didn't seem too interested in conversation but we talked a little about nothing. Then I put my son on. He only talks to her for about 30 seconds. Then she hung up.
I'm still not emotional about it. I think both moments I had with her were positive.
Forrest, Now this laundry thing is going to kill me. Change the locks start a war. Yes I know it is going to be hard. That is why I'm here. It is all hard. How else am I suppose to be dark with her. If she asks about the kids I eventually get back. If she starts doing the manic phase and bounces from cell, to text, to home phone, back to cell, etc... I have to stop it. I don't respond to her unless she responds to me. Otherwise I leave her alone. She wants her space and time. She wants her cake and she is eating it too.
I know I need to set the boundries, but what other times do I have to do it. When she picks up the kids, or when I drop them off or pick them up is the only contact we have in person. Yes I tried to enforce boundries after she was already in her rage. I tried to enforce boundries after mass when I was just trying to go out to lunch on fathers day with my family, and she didn't want any part.
Look I can live with her doing the laundy here. If I tell her no she gets pushed away further.
Then its ignore mode from her I can't stand. It's the BS that she wants to be my friend but doesn't want anything to do wiht me. Do not friends spend time together. It's the beligerent teenager. She works with them at the ice cream shop and the girl that has her ear works with her.
How and when should I enforce the boundries? Some study said to only talk to your spouse about important things between 10 AM and 2 PM. I mean I'm thinking about requesting a meeting with her. The problem is we would need to do it without the children around.
Here is something I wanted to add to the other post. When I was talking to her on the phone I said why don't you come up and hang out with us for a little while. She said I don't know.
She just wants to be alone. One of the things she said since day one was she has been a mom for eight years and a wife for eleven and she just wanted to be herself.
Also one of the last times we sat on the chaise together and I held her watching tv. She just said she wanted to be a big girl and swallow the big girl pill. She wanted to prove to me that she could make it. I said you don't have to prove anything to me.
She also said she didn't care about getting a divorce anymore. She said if I wanted to go through with it then I could file. She already paid on her credit card for the no contest no fault setup on divorcesource.com. However she never wanted to sit down and finish the paperwork. I think the visitation schedule freaked her out.
She also told me to go with the flow.
It's the damn teenage mind.
Her head has been filled up with so much BS from her sister and her loser friends. She seems to attract the certain type of female friend. No self esteem, down and out, while the whole world is out to get them.
Things are going to get better. Yes I have expectations. I think in the long run things are going to work out. I put it in God's hands. It is his time not mine.
Craig54, I had to come back. How else am I going to save my family? How else am I going to walk away from this with my dignity?
Brandnewday, No I'm not going to stop loving her. Just like tonight when I picked up my son. I still wanted to hug her. So we did. She said she smelled. I said you smell wonderful. Really the only thing I could smell is her scent because she was wearing her bathrobe. She smells like the ice cream shop. Stale vanilla cones.
Ok her scent and stale vanilla cones. What a combo. Gosh I could really just eat her alive I love her so much.
You have the basics down. Yet you seem to forget them sometimes.
What you read in the book.. or here.. is designed to give you some guidelines. The thing you missed was if someone wrote down exactly what to do.. you would miss it.
You are trying to find a solution to the problem at hand.. with the quickness. While it can work like that.. it usually does not.
"Now this laundry thing is going to kill me."
Ok.. so someone says.. tell her she can't.. you do it.. it does not come out exactly the way you planed.. fair enough. DB'ing is about "testing" and seeing what works. You took it and got too "over the top" with it.
In order to be effective.. you have to "move" all the time. You have to pick the important parts out.. and disregard the rest.
"Dark" is a word.. it does not have the meaning you think it does. You did not go "Dark" on us here.. we knew you would be back. If you go "Dark" to prove a point.. you are using it incorrectly. I have used it incorrectly.. a few times.
"If she starts doing the manic phase and bounces from cell, to text, to home phone, back to cell, etc... I have to stop it."
That you go "Dark" on.
"I don't respond to her unless she responds to me."
In your situation.. you may need to watch for something. You can't txt her with.. "Crap" and then wait for her to respond. You txt.. with important stuff. Hey the kids had a great day.. or kids are at MIL/babysitter. Not.. You need to let the anger go.
"Look I can live with her doing the laundry here. If I tell her no she gets pushed away further."
So stop it. Let her come and go as she pleases. Maybe say can you call first? If you really want me to be a dick.. have the detergent set out for her. Really in the scheme of things.. what are you losing here? If you let her do it.. she is not walking all over you. Heck I would imagine some people here would want their S coming by to do laundry. It gives you the opportunity to shine. That would be something different.
"It's the BS that she wants to be my friend but doesn't want anything to do wiht me. Do not friends spend time together."
They do.. but if that friend said.. I am going to take a break.. would you not wait for him to call you?
"How and when should I enforce the boundries?"
Right now.. I don't know. When I see something.. I will let you know.
"Some study said to only talk to your spouse about important things between 10 AM and 2 PM. I mean I'm thinking about requesting a meeting with her. The problem is we would need to do it without the children around. "
No!
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
"Heck I would imagine some people here would want their S coming by to do laundry. It gives you the opportunity to shine. That would be something different."
This was also my first thought. I was thinking she would come over and do the laundry and spend some time with the family. However she isn't doing that. She comes during the day while I'm at work.
Also my other thought was if she is doing laundry here then she isn't going to nag me about money. She isn't going to file for child support.
Also I think she keeps returning to the house because this is her home. This is the home she brought her children home too. I don't think she can let go herself. I think it does give her comfort to be here.
I mean her orginal idea was to divorce me and live in the same house.
Gosh she can think all she wants that she is on her own but she is not. She is driving my vehicle that I'm paying for. She is insured by what I'm paying for. Her health insurance is still being paif for by me.
If it goes to a divorce then these things will change.
Look I don't want it to get so ugly over stupid laundry and end up refianciang the house and taken her off the deed and title.
If I do take her off the deed and title then she will have no right to come into the house.
One thing I know is I'm not sure what is going to happen with my job. In a couple of monthes I might be unemployed. I may feel totally different about the situation then I might feel a month from now.
Something else I want to reiterate. She said she wanted to be clelibate while we were seperated.
We have taken no legal action. There is no agreement about money. There is no agreement about child schedule.
Her girlfriend told me that she just needs her space and time.
I have to be calm. I have to be loving. I'm not going to give her any money.
This was also my first thought. I was thinking she would come over and do the laundry and spend some time with the family. However she isn't doing that. She comes during the day while I'm at work.
Phil, IF she wanted to she would go to a public laundramat,it would be easier for her in some ways.
Maybe this is her way of still being able to keep her foot in the door, please don't cut it off.
I understand the rules should change if she is abusing her visits, but these people that we love are so lost and so stupid, and as long as they still feel that the door is open for them, it gives them somethng to think about.
You are going to have to let her set the pace in this relationship. It is a long journey, but honestly Phil, you don't want her back like this. She needs to get her sh*t together first.
Your focus right now needs to be on your job situation and the children, not your wife. Don't tell her your problems, or your concerns, vent them here.
Keep leaving the breadcrumbs out, eventually she will follow them home.
Quote:
I mean her orginal idea was to divorce me and live in the same house.
That is typical Phil. My Husband also thought that we could co-parent together while being Divorced and live in the same home together. They have no concept of reality or how insane they really are.
Laugh it all off, because one day, you really will find all of ths totally humerous. My Husband actually refers to some of his antics as MLC-moments.
Who would have thought??
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
phil, don't try to make sense of what your wife is doing and saying, that is what mlc does. my wife does the same thing. she also comes home and does her laundry. it does give me time to shine.my wife has not offically said she does not want the divorce. but she certainly has not made much of an effort to do more than just file the first set of papers. i believe that is due to the fact that i have been able to back off and give her all the space and time she needs.it can be maddening, i admit that. but i try to keep focused on the goal. she knows i love her. you can do this phil. it takes time, it takes time and patience. most importantly it takes prayer.
m-54 w-44 children-4 bomb-sept 21 2007 t-21 m-20yrs bomb-sept 23 2007 divorced but not giving up hope, not yethttp://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#post1224023
Can we just skip over all these bad parts? I was thinking the same thing. Keep leaving the crumbs out. When I did this addition she always wanted a front porch on the house. I said well its going to take such and such money, and I'm doing a big deck. Once I get the deck done, you might not want a front porch. I always held off on re shingling that part of the house in case I wanted to put a roof over the porch. There is a pallet of shingles sitting in the driveway and have been for over two years. She always complained about the shingles being an eyesore.
Well I think I'm finally going to move the shingles so they are out of the way. I never wanted to move them, because I always knew it was going to be a waste of energy.
Maybe I'll move the shingles so they are out of sight. If I find out what is going on with my job, maybe I can start the front porch. I have a few other smaller projects I would like to do though.
I guess acting as if, would just to continue doing my projects on the house. There is always something to do.
Journal:
Gee more confusion and more mixed signals. Pick up son at 8 last night. She actually talks to me at the doorway. She is in her bathrobe, and says she has to take a shower. Tells me she is naked. I say I like that. She smiles. She seems all normal I mean she seemed like a normal person. Not some manic tired exhasted venom spewing snake. Tells me how a professional football was at ice cream shop and she got his picture with him because one of the young girls wanted it. Then she was asking football player where professional hockey player was, because they always hang out. So football player called hockey player. Football player is such a flirt with the ladies, so he was feeding off her too. I think she likes the attention, and all the little girls at the shop. Wife waited at the store till 6:30 for him to show up because her friend I call the pig girl had an emergency. The daycare center caught on fire. Everyone got out without injury. Her sons belongings were lost in the fire. The hockey player didn't show up until 7:30. I said what is the fascination with hockey player. Oh I just always liked him back in the day since they one the stanley cup. The hockey player came to our church a couple of times to do signings. Prebomb she was so nervous to meet him. After bomb she took a picture with him and our son and daughter. The guy is married. Not that this stops anybody...
Then she said to son before you leave let me kiss you up. I said what about me. She said do you want a hug. I said yeah. Then we hugged and we said I love you. She said she stinks. I said I think you smell wonderful. It's because I can smell her skin behind the stale vanilla waffle cones. She rubs her hand on my chest. We agreed that I could drop off son to her in morning to cut down on my commute.
She called at 10 I talked to her for a little while, but she wasn't interested. I told her I bought her a banana holder for her counter. She asked why? I said it was only a dollar and you always have banana's on the counter. I couldn't pass it up it was made of cast iron. She just wanted to talk to son. That lasted 30 seconds.
This morning I take son and I have to call her cell from the doorway. She says she just got out of the shower and is getting dressed. I take son to the couch. I put the banana holder on the coffee table. She said, where are the banana's. My mind is ready to implode, but I stay cool and say noting. I'm getting ready to walk out and she grabs me and hugs me. Then I hug her harder. She says I'm hurting her. I tell her sorry for squeezing so hard. ( I always remember the story of how I first hugged her when we starting dating. She said it was such a warm strong hug, and nobody ever hugged her that way before. I guess my theory is that I'm trying to relive that hug.)
Then I leave and she walks me out. I don't want to leave and it seems like she doesn't want me too. She is standing at the doorway and by her body language she isn't rushing anything. But we both have to get to work.
Man, I don't know... Where are the banana's??????? She's banana's!!!!
Oh and by the way. I'm validating and listening the whole time she is telling me about the day care center fire. I said could you imagine getting that call. I would be horrified. She is like I know what a mother would feel like if I got that call. She said she would be hysterical. I said I know you would. It would be the worst call at work anybody could receive.
You know, the way she talks about it she acts like she isn't a mother anymore.
"Someday maybe you will choose to be with me son?"
I'm sitting here wondering why I'm not getting a call about what is going on with kids. So I call her shop. She still sounds pleasant and says she will pick them up. She said she has been so busy today that she hasn't had time to call them. I say ok and I'll let you go since you are busy. No plans for tonight... I'm not asking anymore. I could have suggested dinner, but forget it.
Sounds like you are still on a bit of a rollercoaster but are handling it pretty well. The good thing is that it looks like there is a lot of positives on your rollercoaster. I heop you have a good weekend.
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
Put it this way. Son is with me tonight. I golfed incredible. I sat on the stoop with her at her place. I asked her if she had any laundry. She said her mom did it. I said I don't mind if you do laundry at house just call me to tell me you are goin in the house. Everything was cool and then it got stupid. I was repremanding daughter about something and she got pissed. I got up and turned and broke a planter by accident. All hell broke loose. We hugged. She said yeah you want to hug me after you ream me out. I said some sh|t on leaving. You need to get your head out of your a$$. Rolled eyes.... You kids don't even want to be with you. She said they don't want to be with you either. I said yeah that's why I'm here picking up son. She didn't know what to say. Well have a good night...
I texted her on the way home. Sorry about the planter. I love you. She text back. It's ok I'll get another.
Then her and I and son have been texting back and forth playing trivia prusuit.
Phil, you are not stupid. The emotional restraint that is required throughout all of this is at times unbearable. Not one of us here has been a saint throughout this process.
It doesn't make you stupid to lose control sometimes. It is not what you want to do on a regular basis, but when it happens it is simply a sign that you are human. You do have the right to show weakness and flaws. I would ask you not to judge yourself more harshly than necessary.
From what I read you had 4 good interactions and one oops....that means your batting 800 right now. Not bad for a rookie. If only you knew some of the doosies I pulled when I was where you are. And yes, I came on here and posted about how stupid I was, so I understand what you are feeling. Keep doing as much as you can. When you fall, get up, knock the dust off, and get back in the game. Simple as that.
I have read your entire thread and I have debated whether to join in with the others or not b/c I don't claim to be wise nor am I a professional counselor or anything like that. I have live a lot longer than you and I have observed a lot of other people and their lives and I have read a lot of books (for whatever weight that may have). Something pulls at my heart here and I know you are sensitive and defensive b/c I have the same nature to be that way also. I will try to not offend you by what I say, but I don't always communicate the way I want to get it across and all I can do is try and hope you will understand what I'm trying to say.
First of all, let me endorse some of the others in saying that you are not stupid at all and you need to stop putting yourself down when you make a backslide. I have a saying that I've told to some others that are trying to DB and that is "Just b/c your foot slips....don't jump off the entire mountain". BTW, I had to laugh when you said that you couldn't DB in a wet bag....lol. That was funny.
I hardly know where to start, but I guess I'll go where the main thing keeps standing out above everything else......and that is the children. I know that they are you life! I know that they are what keeps you going and they are why you are putting up with this insanity from day to day. A parent's love is so strong that you would lay down your life without a thought to let them live. That being said, my heart hurts to see what is happening with your children. I am so concerned about your little son. When I read how "spooked" your W would get at the least little thing and even talked about that house she was in being haunted......my gosh, that was enough to scare the kid to death. No wonder he doesn't want to stay with her at night! He probably feels so insecure and has nightmares. It may have a lot to do with his bedwetting. However, my D was a bedwetter also and we never knew why.
It is obvious that your daughter is going through early rebellion and it is going to get real bad real quick, I'm afraid. She doesn't know how to deal with this lifestyle and the son doesn't know how to coop. I know that you want to see them every day....and I do not blame you one bit, b/c I would feel the same way. However, the kind of work shift that your W has.....it is doing a terrible number of any type of reason or stability for these children. They have been tossed around and don't know where they are going to be sleeping or spending the day or with whom until it is going to end up doing some very serious emotional and maybe mental damage on them. Please understand, Phil, that I am not pointing my finger at you for this....okay? I know that you are upset about it. I wish that all of the people here that are trying to give you support and advice could help you come up with an idea of how to help these children have more stability in their home life.
Do you think that your W would consent to let you keep the kids through the week and then set up some type of visitation for her to see them and that way you would have the main responsibility for them. The co-parenting (both parents trying to see them every day) seems to be what is tearing the family apart......at least that is what I'm seeing in the posts that are being written. Your wife is so unstable to the point of being downright scary and she has you on a whirlwind merry-go-round until you can hardly think straight. How can you even try to detach and get a life and do all the other DB principles when everything is centered or triggered around and about the kids? Stop and think about it or go back and read the posts. It seems everytime you see or talk to her, or she to you,....it is in regards to the kids and it usually ends badly. She has to call to talk to them. She harrasses you constantly to know what they are doing every five minutes.....and that is not right. She shouldn't be asking you when they went to bed and how long they slept and things like that. When they are with you....that is your business and she needs to not call, not text, not email.....nothing, until it is her time to keep them, and then you abide by the same standards. But this constant back and forth communication is ruining any chances of things getting better.....IMHO. Almost everytime that the two of you exchange the children from house to house, hurtful words are said before leaving and then you text her back to say you are sorry and you love her, etc. But you had alread said that she couldn't hurt you any longer and things like that......so both of you are going round and round. It is so sad and I just wished that somebody could help you all. A good pro-marriage counselor or priest, or somebody! Personlly, I think she need IC before MC would help. I think she really has some problems that extend the MLC or whatever is happening to her. It could be medical or mentally, but she needs help.
The weird thing to me about your wife is the way she wants to "tease" you. Most WAW's don't want that touchy-touchy stuff. The way she met you at the door in her bathrobe and told you she was naked and then talked about the sports players......that was pure sexual teasing. Why is she doing that? Is it her way of getting her kicks? Is it her way of saying, "Look at this, don't you wished you could have me, but I'm not yours now, and there are others out there that I might just let them have a little taste....". That seems to be the message.....and it is mean. She knows you well. She know exactly what she was doing to you and how it was affecting you! She toys with your emotions. She sets you up to let you down. She is controlling your life and she can blame it on her work schedule or whatever....but that is what she is doing.
Not to make you mad when I say this, but I don't know if you realize it or not, Phil, but the children are beginning to control things also. By that, I mean they call the shots about where they want to stay and with whom and when they want to do it. Am I right? The daughter does. You little boy calls you to come get him or tells you he doesn't want to stay with mommy or the GP......and I understand how you feel about that, I would feel the same way. (BTW, I don't like manipulating grandparents either.) But like I said, when you are in so much pain, it is hard to see what is obvious to some others that aren't in the stitch. And, this is what I'm seeing. I don't have the answers, but I hope you will find some way of getting them more settled before school starts. I know that this sounds terribly old fashion, but when my son was six year old, he was in bed by 8:00 every school night. They need so much sleep to be able to function properly at school the next day. It concerns me to see where your son is leaving her place to go back to yours so late at night, when he should have been in bed hours ago.
Phil, I have grown children and I have grandchildren and I love them with all my being. I hope that you will take what I say from a mother's heart. Your family is going through hell on earth right now and my prayers are that healing will come soon. I am so glad to hear you say that you are turning to God. I also noticed a change in what you were saying this time and from what you were saying last time. Last time, you were wanting God to do this and do that to make you wife do such & such. This time, you were wanting God to help you. That is good. You see, I use to pray that God would make somebody do this or that, but then I learned something about Him. He does not interfer with our volition. He gave us free will to make our own decisions and He is not going to force us to do anything against our will. We can pray that your wife will be influenced by something said or done that will cause her to think about what she is doing to herself and her family. We can all pray, Phil, b/c I believe that it works!
If I forget and call you "sweetie" sometimes, don't be offended and think I am saying you are immature.....that is my pet name for people. Just recently I made a young girl mad b/c I was calling her that and it just stunned me b/c I was really trying to show that I cared. I do care about you and you family. You have had more people to respond to your thread than just about anyone else I've seen. So, I think a lot of folks care.
Don't give up, sweetie. Keep trusting God and ask Him to guide you as to what to do about the children and how to help them through this terrible time in all of your lives.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow, if you read my entire thread then you did a lot of reading.
Just woke up in the middle of the night and she is still on my mind.
Tease... Yes I would say so. The five months she stuck around before she left were pure hell in that department. Out of the shower walking around naked. The half nakedness. The look at these nice undies I have on since I lost the weight. When I was dealing with the bubba things you only wear to the doctor visits for eight years.
Even now she shows up in a little skirt and high heels.
I always wanted her hair long. She hates it long. However she hasn't cut it yet.
The whole visitation thing maybe something to consider in the future. I mean if things get bad. I will most likely try and get majority custody becuase her work schedule is so poor.
The bedwetting thing. Hmmmmm... Let me see. No it's called laziness on sons part, and enabling on her part. They both stay up to late. She let them. Then he wants to eat and drink things late. He was wearing pull ups at night. Then she was letting him wear one right after bathing at night. Then he would get lazy and just go in his pull up sometimes before going to bed. Once you program something and make it alright to be lazy they will be lazy.
Since he is with me mostly I'm going to break him of this. The other night when he stayed with her he told me he wore a pullup after we having been using them for 4 days. I program no pullup and don't be lazy and she programs just wear a pullup so I don't have to deal with it. He will be going to bed earlier each night. He will not eat or drink after a certain period of time. I will wake him up early and make him use the restroom.
The daughter. We are going to have trouble in this department. She already has a wicked sass and intelligence to go with it. She played baseball last year. Love it, and she was awesome better than the boys. She is such a tomboy. This year she decides to not play. She wants to play hockey. Well to get her to play fall hockey she would have had to play skills for summer. Summer schedule for hockey is ridiculous. 5 or 5:30 on weeknights. The logistics would never work in our current sitch, because I don't think wife would bend. No put it this way she is never mature enough to talk to me about anything so the whole hockey thing went in the can. Comes down too she says she does'nt need to play. If it wasn't for me, these kids wouldn't do anything. She didn't want her playing baseball either. She will not take them for swim lessons, etc. She is boring as son say it. When I have them we do everything. We she has them they do nothing.
Well the sass from the daughter is only going to get worse. The inlaws also always have the other daughters son too. He is the first child from SIL on her first failed relationship. She doesn't discipline him because of what is going on in their sitch with visitation and court. That kid is bad, going to bad, and unfortunatly might be on the cover of the most likely not to suceed wall.
You can call me sweetie anytime. People are funny about the dumbest stuff. I remember I called this girl Sue once. She said very sternly, my name is Susanne not Sue. Excuse me!
Thank you for posting. Thank you for the prayers. It has to be in Gods hands because my hands are not big enough. I remember talking with my priest and telling him the next time he goes over to the ice cream shop to put the holy smack down on her.
Thank you all for the prayers. Things are still calm with her and I. There may be hope afterall. In the beginning of this I had no hope. Then I had a little hope that she wasn't going to leave. Then I lost all hope because she left. There is still hope. I got that cross in the livingroom right next to our wedding 8x10 photo. Everytime she comes in to do laundry she can have that staring in her face.
I hate using this term, but baby steps, and each week that goes by there is a little more progress.
I am not going to post about daughters today, as I have 5 of them and 3 of them are having their "special" week, so I will try to avoid girl talk at all cost!!
((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Well she text me at 12. Are you going to class? (She is getting worse in this department, normally she would text me earlier to see if he was up and if he was ok.)
I wait ten and say why?
No response. Ten minutes later...
I text her that he didn't wear a pull up and no accidents.
She text: How is he.
I text He is fine. How are you girls?
She says Good.
End transmission.
Than I texted her friend that I have associated as the B girl. We talked back and forth about the day care fire. I aksed her if she needed anything that her son lost in fire. She said everything was replaced. Then I said I tried to talk to my wife about this because you two are like best friends but the aliens still have her in the mothership.
I get the LOL from her.
I'll end the conversation there.
Being nice to the friend that has the hooks in her. The art of war. Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
Well it looks like I'm not going to martial arts class. So son and I are going to run errands.
Son and I go shopping. Find some more pirate stuff. Found a 16" inch statue of a fat bucco, and a nice sign that says history of the pirates. We decide to go home and drop off our stuff and son wants to go to other stores. We need to go to Wal mart and K-mart.
We get home and I can unload the dish washer and fold some clothes. Next thing I know son says Mommy is here.
I was like WTF?
She comes in with laundry basket. She is dressed like a 16 year old with a holter top, short shorts, and little pumps. Not very conservative at all. I'm really calm and I say to her in a soft tone. Didn't I ask you to call me before you showed up at our house. She started yelling I did call you, your daughter left a voice mail.
I look at my phone and what do you know it says voice mail. Blasted cell phones never work right. I said ok I'm sorry but you didn't need to yell about it. I said come here. I try to hug here and she pushes me away. Oh you scream at me and now you want to hug me. I said I wasn't screaming at you I was calm with you and asked you a question. She hugs me then. I kiss her on the cheek and tell her she smells so good.
She starts walking around the house. Oh nice dining room table that is ugly. Where did you get it? Then she walks downstairs and says will you pick up the mattresses for your kids. I'm calm again. No I will not. Why? She asks? Where is the truck? The truck doesn't concern you? The table does not concern you? Nothing in this house concerns you.
She says she is going to the stores and asks son if he wants to go. He says no I'm going to Wal-mart with daddy. She says she is going to Wal-mart and Target. I ask her which Wal-mart, because him and I will go to the other Wal-mart, because I don't want to violate your space. She asks again for me to pick the mattresses and she will give me the money for them.
(My brain is ready to implode again, now she is going to pay for them)
I said sorry I will not. The kids have mattresses here in their home. She gets mad and asks about my truck again. I said that does not concern you either. We are at the doorway and I give her another hug. She walks out of the house. She says this yard looks like sh|t, the corner garden has weeds in it 2 feet tall and it is a mess. I said well maybe someday when you come to the house you can do some yard work.
She is near our Explorer getting ready to get in. I ask daughter to come and give me a hug. So I hug D and give her a kiss. Wife then goes to corner garden and starts pulling up weeds, wearing heels. Better Homes and Garden should have had a snap shot of the humerous drama. I said could you leave the cornstalks there. She said why do you want corn to grow here. I said well it is high and would provide privacy from the neighbors diagonally with huge picture window. You said you always wanted high plants there or a tree, and we tried to grow tall grass and it failed. The corn is growing good and it is virgined. What is virgin corn? Well a virgin plant is something you didn't intend to grow somewhere. The bird feeder seeds had corn and other seeds in it so the are growing now. Which one is the corn. So I point them out.
She says ok i'm leaving I will call you later. I say please do maybe we can do dinner or something. I look in at daughter and smile. I said good bye honey bunny. Then I go to the drivers window, I said dear honestly you look incredible have a nice day.
She says yeah right...and drives off. I smile the whole time acting like none of the drama is affecting me.
It's so laughable. I listened to that voice mail too. It was daughter asking if I would pick up the mattresses and mommy will give me the money. I thought that was the call to show up at the house to do laundry???????
Now at 7 she text me... How is son.
I text... He is fine, how is daughter.
She text. Good.
End transmission.
If this isn't a mid life crisis, I don't know what it?
"Then I said I tried to talk to my wife about this because you two are like best friends but the aliens still have her in the mothership."
Trust me.. from experience.. Nothing good will come from this.
"The art of war. Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
This is not a war.. the less it resembles one.. the much better off you will be. All this is.. is a time for you to shine.. any way you can. You like shining.. you have told us as much.. this should be really easy for you.
"I was like WTF?"
OK right here is where you need to make an effort to learn. The next time that this situation comes up and you think WTF.. check your phone.. actually take it to the next level and check your messages anyway. Just in case. If there is not one.. use words like.. I must have missed your call. Yes it is likely OK to use some sarcasm in that. A big thing.. It's not so much what you say.. but how you say it.
"I said come here. I try to hug here and she pushes me away."
So you yell at me.. and then want to give me a hug. Look make sure not to do this. I can see where it is working.. but the way it is working.. I am not sure it is having the impact you think it is. Just because I am hugging you.. doesn't mean I like you.
"She starts walking around the house. Oh nice dining room table that is ugly. Where did you get it? Then she walks downstairs and says will you pick up the mattresses for your kids. I'm calm again. No I will not. Why? She asks? Where is the truck? The truck doesn't concern you? The table does not concern you? Nothing in this house concerns you."
Ok.. she left.. I got it.. I understand it. Stop pointing it out.
The simple fact is.. you both feed on the drama. I understand this simply because.. I like it to.
Now.. you can still have some "Drama" in your life.. just make sure it is productive "Drama".
"She says she is going to the stores and asks son if he wants to go. He says no I'm going to Wal-mart with daddy. She says she is going to Wal-mart and Target. I ask her which Wal-mart, because him and I will go to the other Wal-mart, because I don't want to violate your space. She asks again for me to pick the mattresses and she will give me the money for them."
Again.. you pointing out the obvious. The reason you were always saying to me.. that I never said anything .. was because I want you to be smart enough to see it has already been said. I don't like being redundant. You could have left it at which Wal-Mart are you going to.. See where that takes you. If some "Drama" ensues.. go to the other one. You don't need to tell her. Now me.. if some chick I knew.. was going to pay me to pick up some mattresses.. all I would be asking is what time?
I don't understand.. well I do a bit.. but can you not see from what you are posting.. that your timing is all wrong. There is consistently a dig.. then you looking for "affection". It's not stupidity.. It's desperation. Look I don't care how big of a man you are. I don't care how smart of a man you are. I don't care how much money.. or things you have. This s*it right here will make you act like a retard. I know.. I have been one.
Where do you think King of DAM comes from? And just so you know DAM= Dumb As* Man. For a while there.. I was going to have to pass the crown over..
Your number 1 goal should be..
I need to learn when to battle.
Someone asked me once.. Why are you talking to LostPhil.. I told them I did not know.
I know now.. why.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
This round about thing with the mattresses is about all BS. You see I told her to take the beds. I told her to take the mattresses from the house. I also told her to go by them give me the receipt and I'll give you the money. I said that about everything. I said to her if you buy something for the kids then give me the receipt and I will reimburse you.
Never happens. You see she wants me to pick up the mattresses. She wants me to do the divorce paperwork. She wants me to do the refi. She wants me to pay for her car insurance. She wants me to do this or that. Phil isn't responsible for her anymore.
She found a way to move most of the stuff she wanted from the house. She can find a way to get the mattress to her house.
I'm done being an enabler.
I think the dynamics are getting better.
Journal:
Son and I went out shopping all day. At about 5 we decide to go eat dinner. I was hoping I would get a call from wife to join them somewhere but that agian is wishful thinking. She wants nothing to do with me. At seven she text me. How is son? I said he is fine, how is daughter. She text good. End transmission.
At 9:10 she calls us. Says put son on phone. First words. He talks to her for about 10 seconds and says can I tell her where we are at. I said sure. We went to the drive in and were watching speed racer.
She gets back on phone. She's screaming at me. Why didn't you call to ask daughter about going to movies? In a calm voice I ask her to settle down. I said I asked you guys to go to dinner, you never called. You never call me about anything. You never tell me where you are going. Why do I need to tell you were we are at. I get it dear, you don't want nothing to do with me. What I'm saying is I'm done trying with you. I didn't want to call and get rejected and I don't care if I get rejected. I didn't want to listen to sass mouth either. I know she is our daughter but she is a smart a$$. I said I get it. I understand you want nothing to do with me. She is saying a lot of huh huh's and agreeing and I feel like I'm making progress. Then the phone drops the call. I lose total network because of thunderstorms in area.
I text her, sorry call was droped. Network is down. I said son is loving life so happy watching movie in the rain. She text back. ur both crazy. I text back, nope just dumb boys.
1/2 hour later she text: would it be ok if I went to house to get my laundry.
I text: That would be fine, they might not be dry because power went out. Maybe you can make the bed because I watched the sheets and you always made the bed better anyways.
1/2 hour later. I text her: Tell daughter that son is going to send her some chim chim cookies.
She text: Sorry I forgot to make the bed.
I text: I'm sorry you forgot. You have been dealing with a tuff schedule. I know you have had alot on your mind. Try and get some rest.
She text: Thanks.
I text: That's what friends are for. Be strong.
I text: My love is beyond love for you. Im sorry you never saw it or I never showed it the right way. You can either accept it and embrace it or dismiss, but its there.
She text 1/2 hour later. Are you guys home yet.
I text: Why? She text: I just want to know where my son is. I text: R u home.
No answer.
I said how is daughter. She text sleeping.
about 1/2 hour later I text her. I found a letter I wrote to you before we got married. I said I'm a guy. I just want to go to work come home and kiss the wife and go to sleep eventually. I don't want the fighting. I do not show my emotions. Sorry. I said I loved you then. I say I love you now. I could write the same letter today.
No repsonse. I text her Good night.
She text back: Nite
It's like a vicious cycle repeating from over ten years ago. She has always been a hot head and has fought with me over everything. In the beginning I let it roll. Then over the years I just fought back with her. It's the same complaint. I don't feel like you love me. I never feel liked you loved me. Nothing is ever going to change.
In counseling one session she told the counselor that she wanted a divorce since the first year. Well looking back I think the first year was hard. She wanted to control me and I didn't want to be controlled. Now she is controlling the relationship by moving out, but all it is really doing is hurting our family.
I never felt like I was in control during the marriage anyways. She has always been a tyrant, and I was the 15 year trying to be locked up in her compound.
"Your number 1 goal should be.. I need to learn when to battle."
I agree and I agree there will no more battles.
"Someone asked me once.. Why are you talking to LostPhil.. I told them I did not know."
This part you should have left out Forrest. That is for you to figure out not me.
"I know now.. why."
Hmmmm, you told me ealier why did I bother to post to you today. I said I did'nt know, and I said some other smart a$$ sh|T to go with it. Then you told me to wrap my 200,000 brain cells around it. I didn't give it anymore thought...
Ok, so know you no why. That's great... "I said maybe you are a lot like me." It took you days to realize that????
Man here is what sucked. I really was reading M go blue. That dude had his sh|t together. At least I thought he did, and then I read the post where he said today was the day his divorced was finalized. He was with someone else. blah, blah, blah, blah, speed racer, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, blah....
No matter what he did to DB he couldn't save his marriage. Did he become a better person. Sure. Would he have become a better person without this site. Who knows. A lot of his post came from Hazelton rehab or something.
Do you have a chance.... Only if the other person wants to give it to you.
I think we have the opportunity to make things worse. We do it on a daily basis. Hell I know I do. I know where I fail with her at. Then I continue to do it.
I know the nice route works with her, but then she treats me like a doormat. I think being stern and continuing to be stern in a loving manner is what is working. Being calm, not reacting, keeping her calm. If she flips then let her flip.
One thing I missed in the journal up there: I told her that we found some Pirates of the Caribben lamps at K-mart and they were only seven bucks each. She said where the hell are you going to put them. You have too much stuff in that livingroom now. I said I couldn't pass them up they were so nice. Well you have too much stuff. Why does she even care?
I think I'll be getting more stuff. Pirates like clutter...
I need to find a canon, cabine canon that is period.
I need a ship wheel, and I need a bloody nice compass.
I don't have any cool pirate stuff to offer as an incentive but you will end up with a little more peace and self respect...
NO MORE TEXT MESSAGES
At least try it for one whole week.
Yes and No answers only, nothing deep and meaningful.
Watch what happens when she is not getting your full attention.
I see from the interactions between both of you that you are pursuing way too much.
Stop with the needy talk, it is pushing her away.
Are you afraid that if you do not tell her these things she will forget that you love her?
You can't stop this woman mid course.
She has to go through the whole thing, from start to finish.
She has to do all of the work to rid herself of the demons.
This is her journey, not yours.
BUT...
You are on your own separate journey, and I think you are figuring that out for yourself.
Please do not do anything to make her life easier in the way of refinancing, or buying "stuff" stuff that she thinks she needs.
You have to protect yourself financially, so that she can not go on any wild spending sprees.
You have absolutely no idea as to the damage these MLC'ers can do. They are like kids in a candy store and have no self control whatsoever.
I think I told you before, but there is a great book out there called Women In MLC by Conway. Maybe it might give you a little more perspective. There is also another called Perfect Daughters.
((((((((((hugs))))))))))
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Yes, I did read your entire stitch. I was off work one day and it took most of the day (on & off) to read it and just as I thought I had reached a place where I could finally send a post....they shut it down. I was sort of ticked about that....lol. But, I was glad that they immediately put you back on again. That happened to me once and I didn't know what the heck I had done, but I was copying and pasting a website that I thought would be so helpful to all the men out there......and that was a no-no and the next thing I knew....wham, I was closed out. So, I try to be careful not to do that anymore. Guess I need to review the rules from time to time.
Glad you responded to my post and explained about your son and the bedwetting situation. I agree, it is laziness on your wife's part. It would be the same if you had a two-year old child you were trying to potty train when at your house, but she put diapers on him instead of dealing with the pain taking steps the potty training require.
I think your W is in some type of crises, for sure. I also think she "gets off" by showing up looking like a sex kitten to get your blood stirred up (amoung other things) and knowing that you can't do anything about it. And, the way she marching in your house and stalks around like she still is the mistress of the home and doing her "inpection" is to get a rise out of you (but in this case, not a sexual rise......just anger). But then she knows that you are sexually aroused by her looks and can't do anything about it plus she has made you angry on top of it and then she leaves you to stew all night.....at least that is what she "wants" to do (I think). It is her little games she is playing. She gets a kick out of pushing your buttons.
If she is trying to look 16 again and dressing like you described, I'm afraid something bad is going to happen to her before she finally realizes she is a mother of two and needs to behave and dress as such. But, if I had the youth and the body to do that.....who knows?......I might have tried it when I was going through my crises (but I don't think I would have gone quite that far....not at my age...lol). I only said that b/c being through a tiny bit of it myself, I know how crazy women can get and I've seen some women my age try to do it.....and it looks disgusting.
Do you know why your daughter stayed in the car the entire time your wife was in the house walking around doing laundry and doing her "inspection" of things? I know teenagers are usually using the ipods or whatever instead of being with their parents, so it may just be something that simple. I do wished she showed more interest in spending time with you b/c a daughet's father is such an important figure in her life, as I'm sure you realize. (The D may have known that there would be tension between the two of you and just decided not to go in to see it displayed.)
May I ask how your wife allows the daughter to dress? Do you think she tries to pass as the daughter's sister instead of her mom? If she is trying to look and act younger and is flirting with young guys (your wife, I mean), then it may be only a matter of time before she will not want the other men knowing she has a "daughter" that age. Do you think she and the daughter are more like two teenagers out on the town together and your W doesn't use much discipline with her is why the D chose to stay with her mom? It would make a lot of sense, if that was the case. At that age, they usually try to play the parents against each other even when they all live together. So, it stands to reason that the D is going to be with the one she thinks she will have the most "freedom" to do whatever she wants.
I think the more you can stick to your resolve to stay calm and not allow your W to push your buttons, the better you will eventually be. It is so hard b/c you still love her and she will always have that special place in your heart. That is why she is so successful in getting the results she is after, b/c if one thing doesn't work, she'll try another. I have to wonder why she is so infatuated in playing these "games" with you if she wants a D and to really be out of your life.....unless it is as some others have suggested.....she likes the drama. I have known some "drama queens" that had rather have a crises than be bored! So, they produce their own drama! Is that crazy or what? Kind of sounds like what you may have there.
Well, just wanted you to know that I care and I sure hope things get settled down soon. I will continue to keep up with your stitch. BTW, I think it is good that you have started posting when you are just journaling to let everyone know that is what you are doing.....getting things off your chest. Everyone has to have an outlet. As I have told many, this has been my therapy b/c I could not get my H to go with me to C and the few I tried to go alone was a bust.....one even told me that I had read so much, that I knew nearly as much as she did! It sounds like I am bragging, but she was an intern....lol. But, it is very difficult to find a pro-marriage counselor around where I live and they probably don't even know what DB is all about.
I have one more question and then I'll let you go. Why does your wife feel that she has to text you morning and night to see how the son is, when he is in your care? I mean, is she being a "caring" mother or is she showing that she doesn't think you are cabable of doing the job? It seems to me that she is the one that is showong a lack of be capable of taking mature responsibility for him (the bedwetting for example). Not trying to make an "issue" out of it, but it just seems that I see this all the time when you are journaling....her constantly calling to see what you are doing, where you are, and all under the quise of being concerned about the son. Hummmmm
Oaky, well, take care and I'll talk to you later.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
No, daughter is eight so we can scratch a lot of that post. She wants D to try like a little girl, but D isn't having it. D wants to wear sports clothes.
D and I did spend a lot of time together before she moved out. We went ice skating a lot, fishing, bowling, to the mall. Etc...
I think my wife loves the attention at the ice cream shop and she can act like queen b in front of the little girls. My wife is a really beautiful redhead.
Yes your right my wife always disquises how is son issue but really wants to know what we are doing.
Today she had daughter call me to tell me that they were on there way to pick up son to go to church. They were going to the church she grew up in and were we got married. However I wasn't invited. She was taking kids down inlaws and she has to work at four. Our nephew was coming home from being on vacation with his father. SIL and that mess.
I went to the church in our neighborhood. I was asked to be the usher. I almost lost it in church. The girl signing sounded like an angel. Psalm 69. Lord in your great love, answer me.
At the end of mass I talked to priest. He said Phil how you doing. I told him a bunch of stuff. He said to just keep praying.
Then the head usher asked me to be an steady usher at noon mass. I'm kind of young to be getting the honor of the jacket. I left church and lost it again walking to my vehicle. I sat in the car and just cried for about five minutes. Then I went to eat.
Then wife calls me at 10 to 3. I'm dropping off son soon. I was cutting grass didn't get the call and I didn't respond.
Son and wife show up with no dauther. She said D wanted to stay down there and play with cousin.
Then she started again with the yard being a mess and started picking weeds. I said well I don't have time to take care of house, do everything, go to school and go to work. She said it was nice having a wife wasn't it, and then she snickered. I said what is that suppose to mean. She said well you didn't realize how much I did. I said what is that suppose to mean. She said you didn't realize how much I did. I said you act like I didn't do anything around here. She said I didn't say that.
She was trying to get a rise out of me, but it wasn't working. She was pulling that look how good you had it when I was here attitude. She always said I never appreciated her and what she did. Is she trying to teach me a lesson? Because I'm not getting a lesson from it. I always knew how much she did. I always thought the work load was equal for the house and the family. Now it isn't at all.
What responsibilities does she have. She lives in a house and doesn't have to worry about maintenance. She is never home and son is with me the messy one. So how messed up does her place get. She doesn't really cook meals.
Sandi, I'm really going to have to read your long A post and get back to you on some of those issues.
I also have to write another post about the ghost issue and how her mother overeacted to everything when wife was growing up.
I think that is where most of the issues stem from.
Son badgered me all day yesterday while shopping to get a hamster. I told him no. He asked his mother today and she told him yes. Now son wants to stay with her tonight, and all honesty I need a good nights rest. I called her to tell her and she said what is up with him. She says she doesn't want him to stay because she just wants to get home and go to bed. She is going to work till about 12 and she has to work at 10 AM in morning. (BOOOO HOOOOOO!) Daughter is down inlaws. Why should she get another free night. She is the one that said he could get a hamster.
Really my son has been driving me crazy all day. He constantly needs something. Wants something or is into something. Every 5 minutes they are either hungry or bored. I can't seem to get anything done. At least I fixed the garage door opener. I must have fixed that thing ten times and wife would always break it by jamming the door with something. Then I would have to monkey with all kinds of adjustments to get it working again. The last time she broke it, I said I'm never fixing it again. Wonder when she'll jam it again.
I guess the comment did get to me. It was nice having a wife around doing everything.
The one question that rang out. "I have one more question and then I'll let you go. Why does your wife feel that she has to text you morning and night to see how the son is, when he is in your care? I mean, is she being a "caring" mother or is she showing that she doesn't think you are cabable of doing the job?"
Because she is a freak about the kids. When they were babies she was worried that they would stop breathing. Which is why she starting sleeping on the floor in their room. She has to constantly have a watchful eye on them. She will not even let them play in our yard without her being around them. She is constantly worried that someone is going to take the kids. If we were in a public place they couldn't run off in the distance. She is super beyond over protective about the kids. She wouldn't even let me take both kids somewhere pre-bomb. She said I didn't watch them good enough. I grew up in the city. I work in the city. I can sense danger. I walk around and fear no one. (Mt 10:26)
Yeah, the woman has some issue's... When she left she thought I was going to stalk her and kill her. She said I was a Scott Peterson canidate. She needs to stop watching the news.
I remember how upset she was about the woman that was in a vegetated state for 9 years and her husband took her off the life support. I told her if that happened to me don't let me life like that. She said she wanted to live, because you just never know what could happen.
Am I being tested?
Journal:
Last night she did come and pick up son. She rang the doorbell. I finally answered the door. I said you still have a key and you know if we are in the back we can't hear the doorbell. Oh I forgot and I have the car running still.
She came in. Looked around came in great room and son was chilled out. She asked if he was going with her. He said yes. She said what is up with you wanting to be with mommmy.
Then she said Daddy will be loving life not sleeping with a dolphin. Son wanted me to carry him out so I did. She didn't really say anything else but she was looking at our pirate stuff. Last night son and I made a powder keg so our Pirate statue can stand on it.
I had some lumber left over from the log walls. It is a 2x6 milled to look like a log, which I used in the great room to give it the log cabin look. One side is stone the other side a log wall. Well I cut them into a foot long pieces and made it into a circle. Cut some tops out of plywood and nailed it up. I used a torch to burn the grain out. Looks just like a powder keg. I'm going to paint TNT on it or something. Son was so excited.
When I took son to car she walked ahead of me. No contact, no talking. I put him in his booster seat and kissed him up and told him to be good for mommy and to call me tomorrow. She said goodbye. I said goodbye. Then I walked away didn't look at her went into the house shut the door and turned out the light before she got out of the driveway. No texting from either side.
No contact this morning. Really why do I expect any.
Haven't posted to you before but have read through your recent threads. It seems you are still very angry, but improving most of the time with your interactions with your wife.
I agree with BND about the "sappy" texts - stop those. They don't help and in fact they could push her the other way. As weird as that sounds - it's true. Stop throwing the digs in "you don't want me, etc." because those won't help either.
I'm not sure what your visitation schedule is like with your daughter but it seems you don't have her that often. My girl is 8 and I'll tell you she needs her dad a lot more than she has him. Please work on calling her names (whether to her or your wife) and work on building her self esteem, etc. If she feels her dad doesn't like her, why would she want to hang with you?
I'm not condemning - just offering some observations.
It's really hard to get to a place where you have no expectations. Months after my divorce was final, I still had expectations based on his previous behavior. Those bit me in the butt
So........I guess keep up the work on the house, etc. Do those things that keep you busy, keep your mind occupied and have patience with your kids. If things DON'T work with your wife, you need to be there for them regardless.
I wish you well.
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
At 9:10 she calls us. Says put son on phone. First words. He talks to her for about 10 seconds and says can I tell her where we are at. I said sure. We went to the drive in and were watching speed racer.
She gets back on phone. She's screaming at me. Why didn't you call to ask daughter about going to movies? In a calm voice I ask her to settle down. I said I asked you guys to go to dinner, you never called. You never call me about anything. You never tell me where you are going. Why do I need to tell you were we are at. I get it dear, you don't want nothing to do with me. What I'm saying is I'm done trying with you. I didn't want to call and get rejected and I don't care if I get rejected. I didn't want to listen to sass mouth either. I know she is our daughter but she is a smart a$$. I said I get it. I understand you want nothing to do with me.
I truncated the message since it was a bit lengthy. But see the red. Work on that - please.
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
"I didn't want to call and get rejected and I don't care if I get rejected. I didn't want to listen to sass mouth either. I know she is our daughter but she is a smart a$$."
This was not said to her. This is what I was thinking. I didn't use the punctuation properly to let the reader know if it was a quote or a thought.
I know what you mean though. I could see how it looked like I was calling my daughter names to my wife when you read it. Those were thoughts, which prompted the question to you about why you thought I was calling her names.
Man this is so hard. This afternoon was rough and then I snapped out of it after lunch. I hope I'm doing this right.
Journal:
I call down in-laws at 2:30. Left a message on the answering machine to have kids call me. Son calls at 6:30 from wifes cell and leaves a voice mail. He says he wants to stay over with me. I call them back. I can hear the wife in the background telling son to stay with her so that she can sleep in. He argues with her. I talk to daughter.
At 7 they all come to the house. She rings doorbell and comes in. She says your daughter wants to stay with you because she hasn't seen you. Son is staying over night. She said she is going home to take a shower. I said why don't you take one here. She says she doesn't know but she says all of her stuff is down her house. I try to walk in the other rooms and she follows. It looks like she is wanting some kind of attention or affection from me, but I'm not giving it out. She can come to me if she wants it. She walks closer to me and I try to avoid her a little. It looks like she wants the affection. I'm detached from that. She starts to walk outside and I go to the door. I said you look tired. She said she ways and said work sucks. I said I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm thinking yeah well you never worked our whole marriage it's plenty different when you are not the boss. A stay at home mother is the boss, she can decide when to do something on their own schedule. A stay at home mom is not an easy job, but it does give you freedom. If you don't want to do the dishes you don't do them.
She is walking towards her car and she said something about getting fat again and she raised her shirt to show me her stomach and started slapping it. I quickly turn away and go in the house. She says good bye, and I close the door. Showing me her flat stomach is a sexual thing and I'm not putting up with it. Look how skinny I am now and you can't have me. I mean she just about has six pack abs. I hate six pack abs on woman. She never had them, was never really fat to begin with. She always complained about that area. I always embraced all of her body images.
No, daughter is eight so we can scratch a lot of that post.
Opps, I remember that now. I don't know why I was thinking she was older.....reading too many posts at once, I guess. But I hate that your wife is acting like a "B" in front of her and teaching her those behavior patterns. It will be a miracle if your D doesn't act like her mom when she starts growning into a young woman....or earlier.
Quote:
She said it was nice having a wife wasn't it, and then she snickered.
You know what? When she started picking those weeds, I would just go back in the house and finish doing whatever you were doing before she arrived. She is only doing it to try to make you feel like you aren't doing a good job around the place without her. The above quote.....that was to get under you skin. Like I told you last time.....she gets her kicks out of upsetting you....so don't give her the power. If she wants to make a fool out of herself by standing out there pulling up weeds....let her go ahead and do it....but don't let her "guilt" you into feeling that you aren't doing a good job "without a wife". I think you are doing a fantastic job. If she asks why you haven't cut the grass, you could always laugh and tell her that you knew it would be just a matter of time before she would be out there picking it by hand!
Quote:
Son badgered me all day yesterday while shopping to get a hamster. I told him no. He asked his mother today and she told him yes. Now son wants to stay with her tonight,
Yeah, that is some of what I was talking about how kids play their parents against each other. They are so darn smart, too! I hope he won't do this, but don't be too suprised if when you don't allow him to have his way about something or give into whatever he wants you to buy....that he acts mad at you and wants to stay at his mom's out of spite for a day or so. Then he will get mad at her and want to go back to your house. I really hope that the you and your W can be united where the kids are concerned or they are going to be a big problem....but I'm doubting she is going to be mature enough to plan to big on that. However, there comes a time that you have to use that tough love with kids, b/c you can't give over to them on everything or you will ruin them and they won't be prepared for the real world later on. Stick to your guns about the hampster!
Quote:
Really my son has been driving me crazy all day. He constantly needs something. Wants something or is into something. Every 5 minutes they are either hungry or bored.
Well, I'm certainly no expert, but I wouldn't be surpirsed that this is a result of his not adjusting to being at one home and the unstableness of it all. Plus, you have shown him almost all of your undivided attention when he is with you.....and when a child gets used to that, he doesn't want to give it up....even for five minutes. At some point, he needs to learn to entertain himself while daddy does some things for himself. I had to learn this with one of our grandchildren. We gave her our undivided attention the first six years of her life and it got to the place that I was so exhausted with her coming to visit that I had to just tell her that I could not play with her or "entertain" her every moment and that she would have to find something to do on her own. Of course, she had plenty of toys and movies and coloring pages on the computer, etc. It was just that she loved having our attention and us spoiling her. However, I found out the other grandparents did not do that and she didn't expect them to. But, she did us, b/c we always had. You know, we can "spoil" our children with love and yet we still have to tell them that there comes a time that they can't have us every second of the day. It's hard when you want to eat them up b/c you love them so much or b/c you feel guilty that they are going through something that wasn't their fault. I think you have tried to give so much of yourself to your son b/c of the breakup of the M. My daughter use to say about her son that he may be "spoiled" but he wasn't a spoiled a "brat"....lol.
Quote:
Am I being tested?
Yes.....but I don't think it is by God, it's by your wife! She really does have some issues that are way out there and I know you are concerned about how this will affect your kids. You have a right to be worried!
One thing that I've noticed is that you talk about the church and you seem to be wanting to get more involved. That is good Phil, and not to sound like something more than what I am....but I do believe in God and I do believe He will help us if we turn it all over to Him. My problem is having patient to wait upon Him to do His work. But, when you stop and think about the mess "we" make out of our lives and then He has to straighten it all out and make it better.....then it should make us realize that it would even take God a while to make it better.
You do need to get rest once in a while. The strain you've been under is very draining on your health and your soul. So, let the wife take her turn with the kids while you get a good night's rest or even go out by yourself or a friend. You know, I don't remember hearing you talk about spending much time with anyone but family. Do you have some friends that you could get out with sometimes? You really need to do that for yourself.
I'll try to keep this post a little short than the last. It was good to hear from you again.
Take care......and don't quit doing what works.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
One of the best communication nights with her. I had both kids from 7 until 10. When she showed up she was just wearing normal grubby clothes. Why she wanted to be away from her kids is beyond me because that it not her normal typical behavior before bomb.
I said son is going to stay with you tonight. Children should be with their mother. She asked if I was going out. I said yes but nowhere in particular.
I tell her that son and I had a very sucessful progress of not wearing pull ups. And I said I was upset that you let him be lazy by wearing them, and you let him wear one last night. He has not wore one for four nights and he hasn't had an accident. You can't let him be lazy. Do not let him drink anything after a certain time and wake up with him in the morning and make him go. No more laziness from either side. If he knows he has one on then he will just do what he wants. She agreed. She said she would try and do what I did.
We walked out to the car and I carried son. I buckled him in. I kissed him. I said be with mommy, and be good. I asked daughter to tell mommy what she decided. Daughter started going off. Well Daddy asked me to play all star softball. I said no honey, I did not ask you to play tonight. I asked you to play the other night. Now what I told you when you told me you were bored was that you could have been playing baseball tonight on a team, but you didn't want too. Then you said well I'm not doing anything this summer maybe I could play for the allstar softball team.
Wife was real receptive. I told her that it will not cost nothing and there are only three games in July. I don't know the schedule yet but will find out by the end of the week.
Son started whinning I don't want to go to mommies I want to be with you dad. I said sorry son I'm going somewhere. I asked her to wait and I came to the other side of the car and I kissed daughter. Then I asked wife to roll down her window. Son was whining and she just wanted to leave. I said I'm making it easier on you so that you can sleep in. She said she knows. She was changing channels on the radio. I said what is wrong. She said nothing. I said could you please stop it with the radio. I would like to hear what is wrong. She said just let me go so he will stop whinning.
I said ok, have a good night.
I walked away, shut the door to the house before she was even out of the driveway.
She needs to think. She needs to think what she wants. I can't not give her what she wants.
I went out and things were slow. I even drove past her place. Only her car was there and every light in the house was on. Right she isn't scared...
You really are making great headway. And the way you handled things tonight was a terrific 180!!
Can I just point out one thing, and I am not trying to be negative, but even if she is acting like a *&()^^$^ please tone it down a bit with the pull-up stuff and your Son. She is not a child and doesn't need to keep being told how lazy she is.
I just know that for me when my Husband would make a big deal about certain things with the kids just to show me how much better he was then me it was a huge turn off and I became very defensive.
Words of encouragement........
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Wow I should really read my post over again before writing so fast. I didn't tell wife how lazy she is, but the way I wrote it makes it sound like I did. "No more laziness from either side." I should have said. I'm thinking no more laziness from either side. I think I was harping on her about how the pull up issue makes him lazy.
Thanks for the encouragement. I could sure use it. It seems like I'm in and out of the funk. 15 minutes I'm functioning. 15 minutes I'm down. I was like that all day yesterday, until after the kids left.
Now I was like that all morning.
Yeah last night I felt like she came down from the mothership a little. I just wish she would have showed me some affection.
I was bad too. I went out and before I got home I drove past her place. I would say it was all clear. The TV was on in the livingroom, and she left the foyer lights on. I'm still thinking she is scared as hell being by herself. When she was at home she had to have a zillion night lights on. One night I counted 26 night lites.
Here is a funny story. The water company left me a note saying something was wrong with my meter. I called them and they said it was 10K less of what it usually is. I said there isn't a problem. Wife left and she was a chronic water user, because she had OCD. She would use 100 gallons to wash a few dishes. She would take a 1/2 hour shower. She has only been gone for a month and half and I would expect the water reading to become even less.
Water abuser, product abuser, night lite abuser, verbal abuser, is this anger detachment?
Thanks for responding. I have to agree with what you say. I think part of why I write on her so much and about everything is to prove I'm not the one nuts... Because this situation is sure making me crazy.
"The strain you've been under is very draining on your health and your soul." You are not kidding sister!
This is so infuriating. Every little thing. Every little button push.
Journal:
She text me at 4 o'clock can you be home 4 5:30 I text: I thought you were off today. She text: No I'm off tomorrow. I text: Ok She text: Thanks!
I get home and find her laundry in the washer. She didn't bother to take the dry clothes and put them in a basket and take them upstairs. She also didn't bother to take the clothes on the table upstairs and put anything away. Thanks? Oh and she didn't bother to call me and tell me she was going into the house.
She arrives at residence at 5:25. She brings in a change of clothes for D for tonight after baths. Says D wants to call her friend and I need to write the number down. She gives the I love you guys and says I need to go I'm already late. She starts to walk out and I close the door.
I count to ten. I walk outside. She is in the car with the windows up and the music is blarring. The back window is down halfway. I try to get her attention. She is putting on her lipstick. Then she is putting on eyeliner. I yell for her and walk towards the vehicle. She rolls down the window and screams at me. What, What do you want? You think you can slam the door on me and then try and talk to me. I'm late already. In a calm tone. I said please do not scream at me. I'm trying to get your attention and you have the music blarring. She says I'll listen to my music any way I want. Then she says you are the one slamming doors. Calmly I say, I did not slam the door, I'm sorry you felt I slammed it. She says that is what you have been doing lately, slamming the door on me. Again I say I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not slamming the door. I'm just trying to ask you if what is going on with kids tonight. She says D is coming with me, but S wants to stay with you. She says she doesn't want him too because she is off tomorrow. She continues to put on lipstick again. She said call me later, I got to go I'm really late. I say ok have a nice time at work. She rolls her eyes and says yeah right. I said ok, see you later. So I walk in the house and I shut the door.
More to the puzzle. Kids tell me that they were at the grandma's for a couple of hours while wife went and got a mattress for son. Looks like these windows of opportunity are opening up for a possible affair. I'm better about that though. We are still married. If she crosses the line that is something she will have to live with. The guilt in the future will eat her alive. I can't control it. I can control my immagination.
Son also told me that he didn't wear a pull up but had an accident. D told me that mommy tried to wake him up to go but he didn't get up.
(MAN YOU ARE THE PARENT GET YOUR A$$ UP AND MAKE HIM GET UP!)
I don't see how I continue this abuse. It appears she was in one of her manic phases being late for work and such. It is like a wave. One minute I think I'm making some kind of progress with her and the next bam.
Wow I can't believe she thought I was slamming doors. I mean in the past we would really slam doors when I was doing the addition. One door in particular got plenty of abuse.
I mean I closed the door, because the AC is not on and the house is still cool. No need to eat it up to turn on the AC.
I feel better writing this down. This morning I was really in the funk.
Hey.. LostPhil.. can I come do my laundry at your house?
"I get home and find her laundry in the washer. She didn't bother to take the dry clothes and put them in a basket and take them upstairs. She also didn't bother to take the clothes on the table upstairs and put anything away. Thanks? Oh and she didn't bother to call me and tell me she was going into the house."
She is walking all over you isn't she. WTF was she thinking. It is your house isn't it? What is all this clutter? I got clothes amongst my pirate stuff!! She did not even call.. GD it!
"She arrives at residence at 5:25. She brings in a change of clothes for D for tonight after baths. Says D wants to call her friend and I need to write the number down. She gives the I love you guys and says I need to go I'm already late. She starts to walk out and I close the door."
I think you said.. she knew she was stirring up some "Drama". Did you slam the door or not? Its ok if you did.
"I count to ten."
Ok.. so you slammed the door.
"I yell for her and walk towards the vehicle. She rolls down the window and screams at me. What, What do you want? You think you can slam the door on me and then try and talk to me. I'm late already."
She is confirming the "door slam". She heard it. The problem really is the door slamming?!
No.. wait.. the problem was the laundry..
"Calmly I say, I did not slam the door, I'm sorry you felt I slammed it. She says that is what you have been doing lately, slamming the door on me."
Oh.. Snap.. someone there is saying the same thing all of us have said.
"I'm trying to get your attention and you have the music blarring."
This said alot to me. You keep trying to get her attention.. and get pissed when she shows you none.
Seriously.. both of you feed on the drama.. it is the only way you know you are alive. Everything you (2) do.. Everything you (2)say.. its all about the drama. It is just fuel for the both of you. You wonder why she is so out of control.. and give her some more fuel. She wonders why you are so controlling.. and she gives you some fuel.
The thing about feeding off another person.. is eventually someone is going to get eaten up. I got a little tip for you.. she is disappearing with the quickness.
All I see is finger pointing. She did this.. She did that.. If she would just do this.. everything would be better.
You are the one posting here... I can only talk to you.. You are the ONLY one that can change.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Well, bless your heart......you really have your hands full. To be honest, I think your W acts more like a teenager than a WAW or a W in MLC. I don't know really what to make of her. Do you think she is bipolar?
I am so concerned about how she does her little boy. Again, she acts like a teenager that is not repsonsibile enough to take care of him! I understood what you meant by the statement of her not being lazy and not allowing him to get lazy on the job. when you are the parent that goes through all the pain in the butt to train a kid to not wet the bed. It is hard being the one to wein him from the bottle or potty trains, or learn any other new behavior or break bad habits........and then somebody else comes along about the time you have made progress and tears it all down.....I would be pissed too!
She really showed me how much like a silly rebellious teenager she was acting with the radio changing while you were trying to tell the kids good-night and talk to her. Her ignoring you sent a loud message. Did you pick up on it? I bet you did b/c you are beginning to see through some of the things she does to push your buttons. I also think that when the son started to change his mind about leaving with her and started the whinning, that she did just want to get away fast, b/c I don't think she can deal with him crying and throwing a fit to be with daddy. In fact, I think that is why they end up at the grandparents as much as they do. She cannot handle them any more. The daughter is older and not as much trouble. She can feed, bathe, and dress herself....and go to the bathroom by herself, so there isn't a lot of personal care that your W has to do for her.
I can't imagine the hell you go through every time you see her drive away with those kids! I couldn't even be angry with you for driving by her house to see if everything looked okay from the outside. I really think the son feels so insecure there is why he doesn't want to stay. How can you get a life when your kids are over there with that nut? (sorry)
Phil, I hate to say it, but I am thinking she has a lot more problems than that of a MLC or WAW. As much as you want her and love her.....I am thinking that you need to protect your children. She seems so unstable that who knows what may happen next. She certainly is a "drama queen", but I can't help but wonder if it doesn't go a lot deeper mentally.
I am going out on a long limb here.......but have you thought about how she would react to you asking to keep the children on a permanent basis? You would have to make sure that you chose the right time to talk to her about it and make it sound as though it would give her more "freedom" in her life......not that she was a bad mother or not responsible, etc. It would have to be planned out very well and sound like it was all for her best. Being in the self centered mode that she is in.....she might just go for it. If she thought she could see the kids once in a while....like every other weekend (like daddys used to have to do). What do you think? Have you thought about it? I know this is not your first choice in what you "want" to happen.....I realize that. You want her to come to her senses and return home and be normal.....but I don't think that is going to happen....not for a long time, Phil. Maybe you need to get some serious professional advice about what you should do for the children's welfare.
I don't think I ever remember telling anyone here on the board what I've told you just now. I did advise a mother to leave a very abusive H and take her children to safety.
I am not telling you to divorce her. That is up to you and how much of this you can continue to take. I am just so concerned about your children and the effect this is having on them. I know you are too. In spite of your pain....in spite of your backslides and mistakes......you have tried to take care of the children and see to their needs. You are trying to get stronger in your church and faith in God. You are doing better in your personal improvements. You are trying to take a day at a time. You are not crying and whinning and asking why isn't she coming home. You are dealing. You are trying to turn it over to God. That is a lot more than some have done. I know you have been hit hard with a lot of 2x4's and you would come back swinging. I have been there myself. We give our opinions and advice and none of it is really any of our business, but that is why we are all here, isn't it? Well, sweetie, I don't think this is working with the wife.....swapping the kids around like this and I don't think she has anything for you right now. Sorry to be so blunt. But, she likes to play games with you. She likes to tease you sexually....and that is mean. She wants to "mark her territory" at your house just as if she were an animal! Know how she does this? By way of the laundry and going about the house pointing out this & that. She disrespects you and walks on you. Even though you are getting better.....she isn't.
I am not sure she will get better until she has lost a lot......or until she hits rock bottom and the only way to go--is up. That is so sad, but that is what I'm afraid will happen. I don't know her, but I have a gut feeling about this one.
You have tried to keep the children in her life. You have tried to keep the house available to her b/c her name is on the deed and you have tried to do all you can to accomadate her with her job and the impossible hours she keeps and raising a family in two different households, etc. I can't remember, but I would dare say that you are providing her car and paying the insurance on it b/c her income is lower.....am I correct?
Have you thought what would happen if she were to have all of this taken away from her? If you filed for D and took her to court for child custody and she really did lose everything.....what do you honestly think would happen--b/c you know this woman better than anyone. What would she do? Would she be force to go live with her parents? Or, is it too scary to even consider? Would it shock her into changing her life? Or would it send her over the edge? If she hit rock bottom......she may still not want you to be the one to pick her up....you know you have to consider that. She may never have the feeling for you that she once did. Can you turn her lose? What do you think is the best route to take?
I have thrown a lot at you just now. You probably have thought about every single question long before I asked them tonight. It is scary, isn't it? My heart goes out to you. I hope you know that. I hate to see any family split up and a M end......but it may be the only chance in heaven or hell that you have in getting her back again.....some day. And Phil, there is no telling how low she may go before she hits rock bottom.
I may be beaten up by the others here on the board for what I have said to you tonight. It has been more of something to think upon and to know that there has to be a change b/c this is not working! That is very obvious. She isn't buying into this and so something extreme has to be done. The reason I say that, is b/c she is a drama queen and "extreme" is what she understands. So, instead of doing "small 180's"......maybe an extreme 180 is due. Just my thoughts out loud. I'm certainly not telling you to do any of it.....just throwing some stuff around.
Phil......take care of you and the kids, okay? I care about you all.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Really come over and do the laundry, Forrest. I'm not even going to dignify your statement.
No I did not slam the door. I closed the door. I have been closing the door before she leaves the driveway. I'm not interested in her bull crap. The door may sound loud when it closes. However if anybody needs a lesson in shutting doors it is her.
She is just looking for something, anything to provoke me and I'm not buying into it.
Oh I put her clothes in the dryer. This time I didn't use a fabric softner sheet. Then I just took the whole ball of crap and put it in the basket when it was done. She can fold it, that will show her. I'm a force to be reckoning with.
Whatever dude, we have been down this road. The laundry isn't even worth arguing over. She will just find something else. The laundry is a bread crumb. I think what pisses me off is that she'll come and do the laundry and disregard everything else. I asked her the other night to make the bed because my sheets were in the dryer and she asked to come over and do laundry. Then all of sudden she forgot to do it. So if she can forget to do something I ask like call before coming to the house, or call when going into the house, or forget about doing a favor by getting a favor. Then I'm not going to fold it.
Forrest you are not even funny. I thought we were suppose to concentrate on what works, and what doesn't.
I think I will be more careful and closing the door silently so that it doesn't sound like a loud shut. Trust me we both know how to slam doors we have been down that road in our marriage.
She is acting like an irresponsible teenager, well irresponsible teenagers should get things taken away from them. One of them being favors. I don't think you are listening to me.
Her friend feeded her bullsh|t about how her parents operate. Her dad was a total alcoholic both of them are divorce, and now he is sober and he does everything for his exwife. Cuts the grass, paints, does all the manly stuff, etc...
Her is another feed of bullsh|t from her words. My mother treats my father like [censored] and he never called her names or was violent towards her. Her mothers temper is about a cream puff compared to hers. Her mother also knows when to quit. My wife doesn't know when to quit, never did. Always wants to get the last word. She would say stuff in front of my friends and my friends would say I wonder what she says when we are not around she is pretty wicked.
Should I even bring up the laundry issue to her again? The only reason I put it in the basket is so that she wouldn't be walking around this house when she gets off work.
Disappearing with quickness. Ok goodbye then. This is what I don't understand. She is doing what she wants and she is still miserable.
Forrest you are not talking to me either you are ridiculing me and I don't appreciate it.
Phil, I understand Sandi's concerns but correct me if I am wrong you are no where near that point right? There's a huge difference between being a neglectful mom and just being ignorant.
I think you are doing much better. I also think there is a little truth to what Forrest is saying to you about the drama and it is completely understandable. It can be difficult to stay out of the drama when your life as you know it is turned upside down.
You are handling yourself much better with her lately. I love the validating at the car, fantastic.
As far as the laundry goes, just a suggestion, but next time put her crap in a garbage bag and place it on the porch for next time she arrives. Take care of your kids stuff, but do not help with hers at this point. Sometimes in order to train a pup you have to smack it's nose a few times and rub it in their own shitt.
Everything you have said I have considered. In my opinion I think the worse thing to do to her would be to file for full custody. In my IMHO I think I would get it. I think it would take a lot of time and a lot of money. In the long run the kids get hurt more.
It's like I said in the past. Someone told me to go to the courthouse and file for full custodial control of the children and if she left she wouldn't be able to take the kids from the home. I really think this action would have put us on the extreme path of hate.
Yes you are right. She is driving my Explorer that I bought for her. The title is in my name. Yes I'm paying for the car insurance. You see the split happened at a bad time. Tax time. Lots of money came back into the household and she felt like she was entitled to it.
Funny how she hasn't asked for any of the economy boost rebate.
Yes I did see the paperwork for child support on her kitchen counter. She hasn't said anything about it. When she filled out the paperwork for the divorce on line. She waved all alimony, and child support. We were going to have shared custody of the children. She just wanted out.
Maybe I should have taken that deal.
Maybe it is mental. Maybe she will never come to her senses.
Here is the deal. Whatever she does I'm not going to be affected by it. I am getting stronger. I am acting better. I have given it up the Lord. My job is to not take it back.
Maybe I do need to change more. Maybe I have changed enough. Maybe she will just keep stabbing me in the heart until I'm in the gutter.
Astimegoeson- She does do a lot of laundry. Didn't you read the story about the water meter? Yes she would do at least two loads a day. She wasn't one to let it pile up and do it all in one day. Sometimes I would have to think about what I was wearing for work and say did I wear this yesterday. Because it was already washed and hung back up in the closet.
She was a machine when it came to the house. It was like an operating room. All of my friends wanted to hire her to clean their houses. However the more I clean stuff the more things I find covered up. She would never clean the inside of the stove, and that always bothered me. When we were first married I would ask her what she did all day, because you know I would be wipped out from work. She said she cleaned. Then I would go above the window trim or door trim and have a giant dust ball. I didn't care but it use to tick her the hell off. I just thought it was funny because it was like the drill sergent using the white glove test. I mean the first thing I would look at would I would find dirt. Cleaned all day my a$$. The house wasn't even dirty when I left. Maybe some light dusting and vacumm was all that needed done. I gurantee the rest of the time was talking on the phone and watching tv.
Ian I don't think putting the laundry in a bag is worth it either. I should have just left it in the washer and I could have said oh I forgot to put it in the dryer. No I don't think she is negletful. I think she was a very good mother that was too overprotective. However even before the bomb I noticed her getting lazy about taking care of the kids. Kids would ask for something to eat or something and she would say. Oh I forgot.
Really though my son is a handful. Even now at almost 11 he wants something to eat. He is whinning to me now he wants soup. We just left the pizza resturant after 8. He came home and had a pudding after we did a little shopping. I got the kids a couple of outfits and I found that set of tikki lights I needed to wrap around the end table. Reminds me I got some coll tikki painted pirate skulls off ebay. I let her take the outfits with her tonight. Yes I'm saving receipts for everything I buy them.
In the real world these kids should already be in bed. Yes he is playing his cards on me too. Since I will not give him the soup he just told me he wants to stay over night with his mother.
Sandi-Bipolar may be a possibility, like I said her Uncle is manic and is heavly medicated in and out of facilities.
I don't think her mother is too stable either and like I said don't even get me started with her sister that didn't even graduate high school and knows everything about life.
Ian, no divorce still isn't in my vocabulary. I am Catholic and I believe in those precepts of the church. I shall not waiver. I don't believe we have crossed a point of no return. There is still no evidence of infidelity.
Look she has already made it hard on herself. She left this house. Can I get her for abandonment for a breech of contract for the mortgage? I heard this said to me. Should I go to the courthouse and file for total control of the house. My neighbors wife did that to him and he had to leave the house. They are now into a 2 1/2 year divorce proceeding and her boyfriend lives with her. Woman really have the upper hand in this state.
I was at a indoor flee market last weekend and there were a lot of sea/pirate type decorations. I thought about you. You would have liked it.
In one of your post you mentioned that your W's father was an alcoholic. My W's father was/is an alcoholic. He was a Womanizer and abusive to her Mom. They are divorced now, but I think this affected the way my stbx looks at relationships. Before me, her ex's were all alcoholics and abusive to her. Very similar to her Dad. I remember in the beginning of our relationship, she tried to push me to the point that I would loose my temper and act like her Dad did towards her Mother. I set the tone for a new type of relationship for her from the beginning and let her know I was not interested in the type of relationship her Dad and Mom had. I think in some ways, that may be one of the reasons she reverted back to both her abusive ex's. She needed the abuse because I think that she saw that as normal in a relationship.
I know that might sound odd, but maybe your W's behavior is due to her upbringing more so than your marriage. If she came from a dysfunctional home chances are good she's looking for that.
Just a thought. We are always trying to understand the mind of a WAS and sometimes it can go all the way back to their childhood.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
"I have been closing the door before she leaves the driveway."
Tell me something I did not know from your first post.
"I'm not interested in her bull crap."
I am not interested in yours either.. I have seen a lot of it. Yet I am still posting to you. Little tip for you.. she sees the same thing I do. Difference is.. I did not WA.
"The door may sound loud when it closes."
It sounds a lot like a locked thread. I heard that. You did to.
"However if anybody needs a lesson in shutting doors it is her."
Are you going to prove it to her? Last I checked.. the only one learning here is you. You missed.. this is all about you. You come here you post. You don't like it. You fight it. You call everyone out. You say stuff to hurt people. You ask me how many shrimp I have. Lot of YOU.. in that. Count um.
Here is one for you to count.. YOU are very likely smarter than me. So.. on that note. You could win. ALL you have to do.. is get over YOU.
"She is just looking for something, anything to provoke me and I'm not buying into it."
You have 5 threads here stating otherwise. Nothing but Drama. Do I need to copy and paste them. You feed off of it too.. do not deny it.. it is a part of you and her.
"Oh I put her clothes in the dryer. This time I didn't use a fabric softner sheet."
OMG.. NO FABRIC SOFTENER. Did you do it because you did not want her to smell fresh? She is fresher than you without it.
"Then I just took the whole ball of crap and put it in the basket when it was done. She can fold it, that will show her. I'm a force to be reckoning with."
I can almost smell it from over here.. You should have used a dryer sheet.
"Whatever dude, we have been down this road."
Oh.. thats right 2X4's don't work. See my road was paved with stupid. Me and my wife.. paved it together. At times I heard her saying the lines should move left a bit. Are you 2 really any different?
"The laundry isn't even worth arguing over."
Dear God.. I thought we were over the laundry weeks ago. Are you still stuck on that?
"She will just find something else."
So will you.. next time it might be she pees crooked.
"The laundry is a bread crumb. I think what pisses me off is that she'll come and do the laundry and disregard everything else. I asked her the other night to make the bed because my sheets were in the dryer and she asked to come over and do laundry. Then all of sudden she forgot to do it. So if she can forget to do something I ask like call before coming to the house, or call when going into the house, or forget about doing a favor by getting a favor. Then I'm not going to fold it."
So you did not want her to do laundry. Then it was OK if she called. Then it was can you do some of mine. Blah.. Blah.. Blah.
Simple story.. she did not do what you wanted. Imagine that. Last I checked.. you were not giving her a reason to.. you were slamming the door.
"Forrest you are not even funny. I thought we were suppose to concentrate on what works, and what doesn't."
Were was I funny? The rest of it.. was crap. You are not concentrating on what works.. or what dosen't. All you can see is the DRAMA. Brandnewday.. wrote out a full challenge.. and got nothing. Tell you what.. when you stop focusing on the Drama.. then we will talk about what to do.
"I think I will be more careful and closing the door silently so that it doesn't sound like a loud shut. Trust me we both know how to slam doors we have been down that road in our marriage."
So you are saying the sound is familiar.. well she heard it. I gotta believe her.. simply because you wrote it.
"She is acting like an irresponsible teenager, well irresponsible teenagers should get things taken away from them. One of them being favors. I don't think you are listening to me."
I am.. you sound like you might be 13. Are you going to spank me now. I still have some shrimp to count. What are you going to make fun of now? I am bald. I have a small brain. Please.. show me something new.
"My wife doesn't know when to quit, never did."
Simply because.. someone was feeding her. Its hard to know when to stop.. when things go exactly the way you expect them.
"Always wants to get the last word."
LOL... you resemble that remark.
"She would say stuff in front of my friends and my friends would say I wonder what she says when we are not around she is pretty wicked."
Based on your show right here.. I am asking the same question.
What those friends missed was you loved her..
"Should I even bring up the laundry issue to her again?"
Do you really need to ask that question? If you do.. F NO.
Leave the detergent out.
"The only reason I put it in the basket is so that she wouldn't be walking around this house when she gets off work."
Last I checked.. you want her walking around in her skimpy clothes. You just have not figured out how to keep her there.
"Disappearing with quickness. Ok goodbye then. This is what I don't understand. She is doing what she wants and she is still miserable."
Miserable.. is better than you. Are you going to let her WA to Miserable? Or are you going to make her Miserable?
The choice has always been yours.
"Forrest you are not talking to me either you are ridiculing me and I don't appreciate it."
The simple fact remains.. you know what to do.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
NO I DON'T - Time and space. If its meant to be than its meant to be. Those are her words, and words from the pig girl. I should stalk her because that is what she thought I was going to do.
You mentioned I love her was the difference my friends didn't see. I love her more than life itself.
The choice is mine? Ok thanks, again not helpful.
You also mentioned BND giving me a challenge. WTFreak do you think I'm doing. I'm not texting her. I'm not prusuing. Now the little communication I did had that I thought was working is gone. All the affection is gone. She doesn't come in and give me the cheek to kiss anymore. She hasn't kissed me on the cheek or said I love you like she was. I'm not getting hugs, wether they are good bad or indifferent. Will this cause her to crash? Will this cause her to miss me? It's worth a try and it has only been a few days. BND is very helpful you however are not. You are clouding her post with nonsense. I'm asking you not to post to me unless you have something constructive to say. I read a lot of post from M go blue. Really good stuff, only bad part it ended in divorce so that wasn't very encouraging. I still can't find Jacks post and how he is the champion of detachment. Really is the right path? Does my wife have a mental illness and I'm treating this all wrong?
RUN FORREST RUN! Being smarter or dumber than you isn't going to help me. You know it is funny you people all do it. You all can be condescending, egotistical, witty Smart A$$es, and call people names to get them to the point of anger and whatever else and then when they fight back a little the moderator locks the thread. And they lock it without warning.
Didn't I say I felt like putting a damn bullet in my head. Why are you screwing with me. Just please go away. Learn how to talk to people. You pick apart my post and merry-andrew it with comments that mean nothing to me. You have read something I wrote and get the story all wrong or half wrong. Look I didn't slam the door. I shut the door. Like I'm shutting the door on you. Good bye Forrest.
Astimegoeson, I mentioned her Dad was an alcoholic??? I think I said sometimes being an alcoholic is a perception. I remember her father asked me to quit drinking because he was sick of hearing his daughter harp about it. I challenged him to quit drinking with me. You see he always has to have that beer or two with dinner. I don't need it. He wouldn't do it. I don't think he could do it. When you rely on alcohol then chances are you are an alcoholic. Sometimes it is about perception. My father in laws mother was an alcoholic and so was the other son. Her uncle was intensive care for three monthes with a pancreas infection. How does one get a pancreas infection. Extreme alcohol abuse. Her uncle son killed himself. Why? My father in law believes because his brother wasn't there for him. Well guess what he says I'll always be his son in law and he will love me, but his is not here for me now.
My wife didn't drink at all. I like my suds. Guess what I'm still not drinking the suds.
The dysfunctional part of the family. Well I think their mother terriorized them when they were little. I hear stories all the time. If there was a thunderstorm her mother acted like it was the end of the world. If the power went out then the Russians were nuking us. If the kids were bad they were threatened with the police being called. Her father is a really stable guy, but I have seen him loose his cool. Most of the time he acts self righteous and humble. He is usually a peacemaker, and sometimes a cream puff. I on the other hand swing back, sometimes it is with great vengeance.
Forrest: The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee. Ezekiel 25:17
Are you sheparding the weak or are you attempting to poison? Because I'm seeing a lot of poison from you Forrest.
Journal:
She picks up the kids at 11:30 She comes into great room and says don't hug me I'm all wet. Well I wasn't going to hug her anyway. I don't know if she was telling the kids that or make a general statement to everyone. She smelt like a burnt waffle cone and reaked of bleach and stale vanilla. She asks what kids are coming with me. They both said they were going with her. She said what is up with you son wanting to be with mommy now.
She was very calm, and didn't say much. So there was nothing to validate. Then I'm thinking that when she said she was wet and smelled. I could have said, well you are a hard worker and hard workers get dirty. Maybe next time...
We walk out to other side of house and she gets her laundry basket and looks a little disheveld that nothing is folded, or is the Pirate room getting to her. I tell d to take the left over pizza so they can eat it tomorrow since wife is off.
I carried son out to car and kissed him. Wife got in the car ahead of me totally avoiding all contact I guess. She starts cranking the radio again. I walk behind the vehicle and give d a kiss. She was exhuasted and should have been sleeping. Little hard when the music is blarring. Wife says good bye to me. I say good bye. Walk away, and I don't even look at her anymore. Give the wave symbol over the hood of the car. Walk in the house, shut the door, and turn out the lights. This time she was halfway past the house. Was that another slam? No! It is me shutting the door on her. Not looking like some sad little puppy watching her leave with my kids and waving good night. It's me detaching. Did I fuel the fire about the laundry issue? No because it was late and probally the wrong time. Did I fuel the fire by saying thanks for calling me tonight to see what was going on? Nope...
I can't care what she does or does not do. I can't control her. I can't change her. She isn't well. The aliens have her.
I can change myself. I'm looking for what that is.
I can change myself. I'm looking for what that is.
Your getting the hang of this. Change is usually anything that doesn't resemble the status quo. It can't be artificial change or change for the sake of change. It has to be sincere and it has to be for you, not her or to save your M. It has to also be positive change. We can't change our personality or our core being, but we can change our behavior. E.G., anger, control, stubbornness, inpatients, addictions and/or dependencies, dishonesty, laziness, complacency, apathy, indifference, intolerance, prejudice, self pity, etc. These are some of the behaviors that will dictate the tone of your interpersonal relationships. These are things we can change and improve on.
Forrest does have a point, you know what you need to do. What is it that your W is telling you by her words and actions? It does you no good to chalk it all up to MLC. You had a part in it to. We don't listen and that's half the problem. The other half, we can't control, but some of us have a hard time accepting that and aggravate ourselves trying.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
OK, I am a little irritated right now, reading this thread and the rubbish posted here.
Please tell me what you guys are trying to do to this poor man!!!
Filling his head with BS and anxiety.
His wife is typical MLC/WAS.
Her actions are normal.
Yes she has issues, but read over on the MLC forum and she is no different then anyone else's Spouse.
She is not out screwing anyone, or introducing the kids to any OM.
She is not coming over drunk or on drugs
She is NOT abusing her kids, maybe a bit neglectful at times but definately not abusive.
The idea is not to punish her and some of the ideas you are putting into Phil's head are totally unneccesary and extreme and could be quite destructive.
FG, I understand that you are trying to be helpful but you nitpick everything to death. Perhaps condense things and learn how to use the quote button to make reading easier. I think some of your posts are meant to antagonize him.
Much of what Phil posts here are his thoughts, he vents, this is his journal, his thread.
I believe Phil is making changes, at his pace. He is self correcting things, he is recognizing things.
For many of us it took a long time to learn how to detach and how to handle our situations and the curve ball that was thrown.
Jack and Ian both did many things to help their situations, they are good Men to ask for help and guidance.
Be patient, be encouraging.
Sorry Phil, I know this is your thread, sorry if I stepped on some toes, but enough is enough.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
What are THEY trying to do? Phil has driven off every experienced DBer who has come here to try and help him, giving back nothing but venom, hubris and sarcasm in the process.
Sorry, I totally disagree with you. I frankly have admired Forrest's, yours and other's patience; you obviously had more of it than I did.
I see Newcomers coming here at an alarming rate, crying out for help, and some don't even get any responses. Phil has has a TON of help -- some of it loving/patient and some of it 2-4 -- and all he does is drive everyone away.
Phil, you've learned nothing if you can't see where FG is trying to help you. I will go back to honoring your request to not post on your thread, but I have been reading every single post, and you're just not gettin' it, buddy.
PDT, I respectfully ask you to list ALL of the things in your opinion that Phil should be doing..... Tell me what has been working for you in your situation and what isn't working. Thanks.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
PDT, I respectfully ask you to list ALL of the things in your opinion that Phil should be doing..... Tell me what has been working for you in your situation and what isn't working. Thanks.
No thank you. Phil has asked me not to post here, and I shouldn't even have posted the above, but I just wanted to defend Forrest and others who are trying to help "poor Phil."
If Phil wants my help, he can ask. I apologized to him previously, and he just blew me off. There are far too many other people that need my help, and who seem to appreciate it.
I have been following your thread intermittently and it seems like you are getting a pretty good handle on things. It took me several months of some intense emotions (including some of the darker places you have been) before I go to the point I am at now. I must say this site was instrumental in me finally getting a grip and more importantly coming to an understanding of what my W was going through and thinking.
I have to agree with BND, it sounds very much like a MLC. Having been through it/going through it, I can say it is one heck of a ride and can be a long one. Like you have mentioned, it is like having a teenager....unfortunately it is one that you really can't punish effectively without worstening the situation.
The two things that helped me out the most were to read the forums over there and read up on the whole MLC process (it can be pretty eye opening). The other thing that helped me a lot initially was getting some advice from AmyC. I know you two have shared some barbs in the past, but there is a lot to be said about getting the honest perspective of someone who has been in the position of your W in the past.
I would even consider moving your thread over to that forum, it gets a lot of traffic (almost as much as the newcommer one) and you might find a little more familiarity in the sitches over there.
Best wishes and continue your improvements....they are noticeable
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
Puppy go away! You are immature. Sorry I'm not going to apologize to you for anything. Are you not a grown man? You need me to validate your behavior against me by having me apologize to you. Forget it! If you don't like it then, Stop reading my post. If I don't get it then I don't get it. That is for me to figure out. Right I'm not listening to her. Okay the slamming door thing was just a button pusher. Obviously she is trying to figure out how to push my buttons and make me angry so she will try to find anything.
Forrest go away. You nickpick and yes you try to antangonize me. Puppy, you antangonize me too. "who are trying to help "poor Phil."" You are also the poison, and are not your brothers keeper. Look up the word compassion. It states sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it. You are not alleviating it. I asked you not to post and I meant do not post.
Like I said this is click. Puppy, Forrest is his own person he doesn't need a puppy to stick up for him against a dog.
Some come to sing, some come to dance, and some come to scare the dogs away.
Brandnewday, you have been wonderful. I have accepted your challenge about the texting. I hate it. I felt like I was at least reaching her in the evenings. I would only communicate with her if she tried to communicate with me. Her communication has become less and less. Yes maybe this has alleviated some of the drama. Things for the most part are calm. I haven't helped her with anything either. Looks like the big girl went out and got her own mattresses for the kids. I haven't enabled or given her any money. Something funny about last night was. Oh daddy bought you guys more clothes. Why? Then she said she hoped that there was some nicer things that daughter could wear to church. I said d just got a new set of Pj's and another soccer outfit. She can wear the soccer outfit to church. Kids show up at church wearing their soccer uniforms.
It like a dead plant syndrome. The plant is dead, but we are going to put a big yellow ribbon on it and say it looks nice.
Twindad, Thank you for posting. I do notice some changes about me not reacting to her. Sometimes it sounds like she comes down off the mother ship for a little while. Then she zaps back up to it. I can't let it affect me. There is nothing to understand. It is her journey. She needs to figure out if she wants that journey to be with me or without me. She needs to figure out if we want to have a crappy relationship or a good one.
Look her friend and sister and however else filled her head up with so much bullsh|t. Her friend the one I call the pig girl said that her and her exhusband are the dorkiest divorced couple around. No fault no contest divorce with shared custody on there child. Her ex remarried. She says she isn't sorry about it, but deep down I know she is. I asked her if she wish he didn't remarry and she says F no. I don't believe her. I think they went to the together stage, but he remarried. She says she loves his new wife, and his new wife and family are really good to her daughter.
Other things: Her uncle and aunt were divorced for a year, and she says maybe we will be like them.
This is what she wants. She wants to be independent. So I need to find a way to give her that independance. She isn't now. She comes home and does laundry, and its her way of checking up on her house. Is it clean? Is there something new she doesn't like or approve of? I'm still paying for her car insurance and she is driving my explorer. Is she thinking that is her claim on the marriage.
I talked to my buddy about it this morning. She took all the expensive things out of the house. Why did she feel she was entitled to them. Her parents bought us a large blessed mother painting that hung in our living room. They bought it for us, for our home. Why was she entitled to it. Everything she took she said I bought it for her, so she took it. Really I bought it for us.
I know one thing. I have to stay sober. That is one thing that I know for a fact will not help the situation. I have even been accused of drinking because I had the bar smell on me. Well I go there to eat. Bars have good food.
Oh yeah AmyC and I are really best friends, she just doesn't know it yet. AmyC likes to hide behind excuses in my opinion. If she was MLC, then act like an MLC and go back home and lay down the law. Something is telling me she isn't ready to do it, she is still on her own journey. I haven't read her past sitch too much but from what people are saying it went to the depths of hell. She fought the devil and won. However the snares of hell keep trying to pull her back.
She doesn't speak with compassion either. I think a lot of people on these boards need to learn compassion.
PDT, I respectfully ask you to list ALL of the things in your opinion that Phil should be doing..... Tell me what has been working for you in your situation and what isn't working. Thanks.
List Incoming...
From Phoenixdeux..
LostPhil needs to loose some anger and bitterness.
LostPhil needs to look inward at things he could be doing differently and making yourself a better husband (and father).
Quit pointing the finger at your wife like this is all her fault.
Do more listening...
Quit trying to fix things.
BE CONSISTENT.
Always be the grown-up.
ACT AS IF he is fine with whatever happens.
Stop sounding desperate and needy.
Set his own effective boundaries.
From Bworl...
Stop Drinking. Stop being violent. Stop treated her like [censored]. Stop throwing your weight around and making her feel like what SHE wanted was unimportant.
Go get help, counseling. With a real counselor.
From Just Beau...
No pursuing. No fighting for her.
From Puppy Dog Tails...
Stop acting like an azz, especially in front of your kids. Please stop it, and LISTEN to the phenomenal advice you're getting here.
Now I only made it thru the first thread.. LostPhil knows what to do. It has been spelled out here in many different ways. Do I need to keep going with my list?
Maybe I am nit picking.. I should be.. because the quicker LostPhil can pull off a flawless performance.. the better his chances he could win.
I just picked out the high points.. I would be here all day if I put everything in.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Now.. Phil is changing.. he is doing.. really well for where he came from.
I am impressed that he has changed as much as he has... Can't discount it at all.. It just needs to be more. The change needs to be Dramatic and Long Lasting.
If he thinks I am attacking him.. that's ok.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
"I think a lot of people on these boards need to learn compassion."
Maybe you need to look around and see if you are looking at things wrong.
I feel your pain.. I would love for it to stop. Are you going to let someone help you.. or are we going to fight to the death?
I have walked in your shoes. Most of the people posting to you have. Most of those people would have really loved if someone spoke the truth to them when they first started posting.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I do notice some changes about me not reacting to her. Sometimes it sounds like she comes down off the mother ship for a little while. Then she zaps back up to it. I can't let it affect me. There is nothing to understand. It is her journey. She needs to figure out if she wants that journey to be with me or without me. She needs to figure out if we want to have a crappy relationship or a good one.
Look her friend and sister and however else filled her head up with so much bullsh|t. Her friend the one I call the pig girl said that her and her exhusband are the dorkiest divorced couple around. No fault no contest divorce with shared custody on there child. Her ex remarried. She says she isn't sorry about it, but deep down I know she is. I asked her if she wish he didn't remarry and she says F no. I don't believe her. I think they went to the together stage, but he remarried. She says she loves his new wife, and his new wife and family are really good to her daughter.
I glad you understand it isn't all about you. That was hard for me to initially understand. Don't get me wrong, I know I have plenty to work on and am doing that. It just hepled with the frustration I was experiencing to realize that a large portion of this was her journey.
I do feel you might have a more difficult yourney in what you are going through in that my W's friends and family were not supportive of her choice but still showed her love. IN the end it might not matter anyways because a MLCer will isolate themselves from everyone except those that believe what she is doing is right.
It will and is a roller coaster or as I like to refer to it as riding a mechanical bull. At least with a roller coaster you can see where it is going with a a mechancical bull you never know which way it is going to turn.
I have been using the best friend approach with no expectations pretty effectively (I did experiment with the dark approach a little bit with obviously bad results).....it can be very painful sometimes but in the end I know I am doing it from my heart. When my W and I sep, I gave her first choice on everything. I told her she could have whatever furniture etc (granted we had plenty), but my point was, it didn't matter. I figured she could drain me to pennyless and I would still get a check the next week. The only place I stood firm was with my kids. I insisted on equal physical custody (though we never entered a formal agreement). Some may think I was too flexible, but we just wrote an offer on a house together yesterday and we have been staying together every day in june.
Don't be affraid to do what is working for you. The text challenge presented to you is nice, but if it has decreased the positive contact you two were having then perhaps it needs to be re-evalauted.
I know AmyC can be pretty abrasive, but like you said she has fought some pretty big demons and has been in the biggest fight of her life for quite some time. I admire her experience and persistance.
I do feel alot of the people on these boards (myslef inclduded) could benefit from a few DB techniques in dealing with each other here. I think when trying to help each other we sometimes continue to go down cheeseless tunnels numerous times in an effort to get through.
Keep up the hard work, you are doing good!
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
It is an analogy of the rookie. I am a rookie db'r. The old timers are telling me what to do, and doing it the hard way. Rookie isn't going to listen. Rookie has to make his own name for himself. Rookie has to make his own mistakes. Rookie has to surprise the old timers. Rookie takes everything in, processes all advice, and then rookie explodes with greatness.
Believe in yourself!
Twindad, Yes I do think the texting at night was positive. Now she has shut off all communication. She has the children call me instead of speaking with me directly. She communicates through the children. She has pushed away everyone good in her life.
I think a lot of us on these boards need to stop talking about other people. We need to stop defending other people. You want to help someone and they give you some licks back, then you leave it between them. You shouldn't be arguing with other db'rs about the actions and advice others have given. You need to talk to the person of the thread, not to people on the thread.
Maybe PM's or an email system would help. Your thoughts do not need to be told to stick up for someone. We are all grown ups here.
I do believe BND is right in sticking up for the orginator of the thread. However that doesn't mean you should attack back on that thread to justify your actions. Lostphil doesn't need you or anyone else to justify yours or someone else's actions.
Forrest, Yes I have read all those things. I do believe I have implemented a lot of them. I don't know where the stop drinking thing came from, because I don't drink anymore.
Stop being snappy and violent with or at her. Yes I have changed that. She wants to pick weeds in the flower garden in her heels. Go right ahead. She wants to look like an idiot in front of the neighbors go right ahead.
My old neighbor next to me said, man I don't know how you put up with her. She cranks on you about everything. I said you know what old neighbor buddy, I heard some stories about your wife. How she would chase the kids in the neighborhood for retrieving balls from her yard. How she was the alarm clock of the neighborhood. How did you put up with yours. I know your wife is gone now and I never met her. He defended her and said she wasn't that bad.
"It is an analogy of the rookie. I am a rookie db'r. The old timers are telling me what to do, and doing it the hard way. Rookie isn't going to listen. Rookie has to make his own name for himself. Rookie has to make his own mistakes. Rookie has to surprise the old timers. Rookie takes everything in, processes all advice, and then rookie explodes with greatness."
I am watching for the explosion.. and the greatness.. Still watching.... I can see something brewing..
"Yes I do think the texting at night was positive. Now she has shut off all communication. She has the children call me instead of speaking with me directly. She communicates through the children. She has pushed away everyone good in her life."
Alot of people other than Brandnewday have asked you to stop.. even a Mod did. Now after I pointed out that you did not respond to Brandnewday.. now you have stopped texting. I even said.. it is not having the effect you think it is.
"I think a lot of us on these boards need to stop talking about other people. We need to stop defending other people. You want to help someone and they give you some licks back, then you leave it between them. You shouldn't be arguing with other db'rs about the actions and advice others have given. You need to talk to the person of the thread, not to people on the thread."
I have talked directly to you. Trust me.. I don't need anyone to defend me.. I don't need to defend myself at all. You can attack me.. thats fine. You know the rules.. you know the boundaries. As long as you stay within them.. everything will be fine.. Kinda like Real Life huh.
"Forrest, Yes I have read all those things. I do believe I have implemented a lot of them."
Some of them yes. I still question whether you have implemented them correctly. I am still on the fence with that. Seriously.. I can see some work.. I want you to do better. I know you can.. you tell us how great you are all the time. Show us. I am waiting.
You are still pointing the finger. Look I am not pointing one at you. I am simply stating where you need to change. You can choose to.. or choose not to. It really is that simple. I don't have to point a finger at anyone.. you should have grasped a long time ago.. only you can make a difference. I don't have to prove myself to you or anyone. This is not about me stroking my ego. Or being better than you. This is not a competition.. you win.. if you listen and apply everything that has been said. Yes.. it is that simple.
"I guess you put up with a lot for love."
I don't love you.. I do care about where you are going.. that's why I put up with it. I am telling you.. I would not wish this stuff on anyone. Not even you LostPhil.. I don't have to like you.. to help you. You don't have to like me.. to listen.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
OK, I am a little irritated right now, reading this thread and the rubbish posted here.
Please tell me what you guys are trying to do to this poor man!!!
Filling his head with BS and anxiety.
His wife is typical MLC/WAS.
Her actions are normal.
Yes she has issues, but read over on the MLC forum and she is no different then anyone else's Spouse.
She is not out screwing anyone, or introducing the kids to any OM.
She is not coming over drunk or on drugs
She is NOT abusing her kids, maybe a bit neglectful at times but definately not abusive.
The idea is not to punish her and some of the ideas you are putting into Phil's head are totally unneccesary and extreme and could be quite destructive.
FG, I understand that you are trying to be helpful but you nitpick everything to death. Perhaps condense things and learn how to use the quote button to make reading easier. I think some of your posts are meant to antagonize him.
Much of what Phil posts here are his thoughts, he vents, this is his journal, his thread.
I believe Phil is making changes, at his pace. He is self correcting things, he is recognizing things.
For many of us it took a long time to learn how to detach and how to handle our situations and the curve ball that was thrown.
Jack and Ian both did many things to help their situations, they are good Men to ask for help and guidance.
Be patient, be encouraging.
Sorry Phil, I know this is your thread, sorry if I stepped on some toes, but enough is enough.
BND I don't know what kaleidoscope you're looking through when you read this thread but I believe you are having a problem seeing this situation clearly.
Hand-holding and helping to blow up Phil's already self-inflated ego is not going to help him.
I disagree that Phil is making real changes because he hasn't yet shown the first sign that Phil actually thinks PHIL has done anything wrong. In fact, he has stated the she basically had it made in the shade; if you like living with an ass, that is.
The only thing Phil is doing is learning our language and using it to attempt to MANIPULATE his situation but what I see is him coming off even more arrogantly when he relates to his wife. He has missed the critical step of being flattened on his face in repentence and regret. There ain't no by-passing or side-stepping that one, though.
He is not changing internally and his actions prove that day after day after day.
With so many heavy hitters bowing out - and I do not include myself in that statement - I think you ought to ask yourself why you seem to be having a problem seeing the issues of Phil's sitch for what they so obviously are...pride, arrogance and immaturity on BOTH their parts.
Additionally, I disagree that his wife is "typical MLC/WAS". She is still communicating with him, does not exhibit the anger MLCers do and only seems to react justifiably when Phil is being an ass. Yes, she's a childish brat without a doubt and has a lot of hard lessons to learn but I believe her to be a product of her environment who is finally rebelling against living with an arrogant, condescending jackass. The woman is not MLC but even if she were, it would not change the fact that Phil ain't dealing with Phil because he thinks Phil's a pretty awesome guy just the way he is.
This post may very well result in me being banned and if so, peace out.
AmyC likes to hide behind excuses in my opinion. If she was MLC, then act like an MLC and go back home and lay down the law. Something is telling me she isn't ready to do it, she is still on her own journey. I haven't read her past sitch too much but from what people are saying it went to the depths of hell. She fought the devil and won. However the snares of hell keep trying to pull her back.
She doesn't speak with compassion either. I think a lot of people on these boards need to learn compassion.
You should really read a person's entire situation before offering advice that has been tried before with little to no good results.
: ) I agree with your compassion statement. Pretty ironic, yet true.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
I agree completely with AmyC on this one. If she's banned for this post, moderators please ban me as well because I didn't have the guts to say exactly what she said. I believe completely that she hit the nail squarely on the head. And yes Phil, you can say, "Phoenix go away". This caught my eye and I couldn't help myself...I had to say bravo to Amy.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Amy, no I don't think what you said in banning material.
Again, here we go I have asked you to stop defending each other in dealing with me.
AmyC, I belive you are wrong. The wife is exhibiting non communication behaviors and is often times an angry bee's nest. The only time I have not seen the anger is when I have not asked her to do something. If I say don't come in the house, or create some kind of boundry all hell breaks loose. Now I'm not playing into those situations and she is just looking for any kind of bent grass to b|tch about. In my opinion it is some form of MLC. She wants botox. She is 105 lbs and thinks she is fat. She has no self esteem. She acts like a teenager and she dresses like one. Her life has become a reckless abandonement.
Also you have no clue of my repentness and self inflicted injury of myself. I hate myself. I wanted to die.
Jack you are right. I think Brand new Day is speaking my language.
Forrest, this is where you should have zipped it with me. "I don't love you.. I do care about where you are going.. that's why I put up with it. I am telling you.. I would not wish this stuff on anyone. Not even you LostPhil.. I don't have to like you.. to help you. You don't have to like me.. to listen." You don't love me? Man that really, really sux. I thought you were a Christian.
Phoenix you can agree with AmyC, but you didn't need to post it. I don't need your justification. You are arrogant, and willing to go down with someone else just to prove a point.
Jack, Look I hear you man. I am getting better. I am self reflecting. I know what the goal is... I'm having a better direction. Maybe I just don't get your humor, or your experienced remarks. Perhaps you think they are refined, but they are not. You may be an expert on the subject. You may know what you are doing. However if you can't explain it to me in terms I understand then what good is it. Would you rather be witty, or would rather be understood. I don't know maybe you have been doing this for too long and you have lost sight.
Look didn't you guys listen to anything I have wrote. Stop fighting against one another and defending one another on my thread. Go on a new thread and vent about LostPhil.
Look I want all of you to stay. Sheppard me. Become the true sheppards.
Lets recap. What works?
Being nice to her. Texting her in the evening. Answering the calls right away when I have the kids. Not reacting to her manic episodes. Showing her affection. Saying I love you, and her saying it back. What happened now that she doesn't communicate anymore. Because I wouldn't help her with the mattresses. Because I told her she is no longer my responsibility. I have let her go and I have told her that I have let her go. She is distancing herself more and more. The night before she left we were intimate but she said she still was going. She didn't want a divorce anymore. She just wanted to swallow the big girl pill.
Well, there have been so many different opinions about your stitch until it may have your head spinning and ready to spew green pea soup! I try to respect anyone's belief or regious platform where marriage and divorce is concerned, and therefore you would need to certainly follow your Church's teaching on that issue. If you feel that trying to get full custody would end up being more harmful to your children and causing even more destruction in the long run, then don't do it just b/c I or anyone else may suggest that. You know your wife, the children, and your stitch better than anyone else. All we can go by is what we think we see in your writings.
I wished I knew what to tell you, but to be honest, I just don't know what is best. As I said before, I personally do not believe she is the "typical" WAW or do I think she is necessarily in MCL. I am very concerned about her family traits and the possibility that she could have inherited those things. I certainly believe she was affected her by her mother's fear factors. I believe that is why she has so many fears of her own right now and that they work on her imagination. I pray it won't affect the children (especially the youngest), but it probably will.
Anyway, that is why I think a professional is the one you need to see for advice. You could keep going round and round with everyone here on the board and still not get anywhere near where you need to be. I'm not telling you to stop posting, if that is what you want to do and if you do feel that someone here is helping you, but I do plead with you to find a professional to advise you in what you need to do about your stitch.
You are correct in saying that you cannot control your wife, so you could not force her to see a professional....but you can get advice there. Just be sure you get a very good one and don't just pick one out from the yellow pages and find out all they have is a document on the wall that says "counselor" on it. They aren't worth a pinch of salt and the first thing most of them would tell you is to get a divorce and go find happiness for yourself in whatever manner made YOU happy.
I do believe in Michelle's DB principles. And, she would tell you that you need to do what works. If something does not work....it is a cheesless tunnel. So, do what works for your family.
Peace be with you.
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Stop talking through me, like I'm not here. Talk to me, not to your board buddies. They all know they are your buddy, and they are ready to go down with the ship with you. You are talking to BND in a condescending tone and trying to give me answers. Talk to me.
Phoenix- What are you doing the high five dance. Oh I zigged the moderator to make lostPhil feel even worse.
Jack, where are these champion threads of detachment? I still can't find them in MLC archives.
Everyone please go pray for my family. Pray on the prayer circle, and use prayers.
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."
What is courage? The ability to face one fears with no fear itself regardless of the outcome.
Phil, intentional or not you come off as antagonistic. Your responses are ladened with bait to fan flames. I am asking my 'buddies' to stop.
I don't respect you, so telling me what to do, beyond not posting to you will give you little satisfaction.
My posts can be found be clicking on my name, and viewing posts. I do not believe they are in the MLC archieve. I could be wrong, but 5,000+ are alot to go through. How BND says to dettach is pretty much spot on. Don't respond, live your life stop feeding her drama.
I am sorry that you think I am being funny here. I am sorry that you think I am trying to be cool at your expense. Neither is true. This isn't highschool.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Who is the the best psychologist? Do you really think some professional is going to be smarter than me? I need to make my own decisions. I don't need a psychologist telling me to end something I don't want to end. I don't need us to go to a psychologist together. I do think we should go to Retrouvaille. But I only think that will work if she is willing to work at it.
When people give up they go and see a psychologist or they recommend someone to a psychologist.
What is a psychologist going to tell me I don't already know. She wasn't held enough as a child. She was spanked too much. She was terrorized by her mother. Look we all have our emotional backage. Woman seem to carry around theres in a big elephant bag. Men or most likely for me, I don't carry it around. Boo Who, I didn't get the GiJoe with the kung fu grip when I was a kid.
Live is just a bowl of cheeries. This is temporary. My path is salvation.
If it doesn't work out with her, in five years this may all be a blur.
there are no exact ways to deal with our spouses. you have to experiment . if it works, keep doing it.i am certainly no expert. but i do know what works , so far at least, in my situation. i like the quote, is what you am are doing bringing you closer to your goal of reconciliation. if it does not , change what you are doing. as far as what sandi said about seeing a therapist. i would recommend it. for your wife, if she would do it. or just for yourself, they can help guide you . it is a great place to vent. it is not a sign of weakness to want to get help, on the contrary it is a step in the right direction. it means you have hope. it means you care enough to try everything you can.
Last edited by craig54; 06/25/0806:53 PM.
m-54 w-44 children-4 bomb-sept 21 2007 t-21 m-20yrs bomb-sept 23 2007 divorced but not giving up hope, not yethttp://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#post1224023
Ok, lets get this straight. Do not recommend a therapist to me! If you want to go to a therapist you go. I have no desire to talk to a therapist.
I do talk with my priest.
I agree. Did not getting the mattresses for her bring me closer to reconciliation?
Did leaving her clothes in a big ball mess in the laundry basket brink me closer to reconciliation? No but next time she asks to come and do laundry and I ask her to make the bed, maybe she will.
I don't know... She's in outer space man. I don't think I can build a ship big enought to bring her back.
Oh yeah Jack, real funny. "I am sorry that you think I am trying to be cool at your expense." I HAVE THE PLAY BOOK AND YOUR JEDI MIND TRICKS DON'T WORK ON ME. It was good, and the wife has caught onto the I'm sorries too. She always says now, stop saying you are sorry for things. You are always sorry for things. It is getting old. I know you are sorry. You are sorry you had it so good with me and now I'm gone.
"Neither is true." Good validation until you said this. "This isn't highschool. "
I don't know Jack, you smiled and then you said have a nice day. I figured you were throwing your hands in the air again and giving up.
I was pointing out that I wasn't playing stupid games with you.
You took it as an attack on you.
It wasn't a mind trick Phil. You are reading far more into it than it was intended.
You have buttons, that I do not know about. It seems I am pushing them.
On that note, BND is more capable of helping you than I am. I do read your thread, and will continue to do so, I am not giving up but you seem to understand her better than me, and all my double negatives.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Are you .. the way you are now .. the man your wife married?
Or
Are you still the same person you were.. when things were good.
You can chose either question.. they both ask the same thing.
Since you are such a religious person.. What was the one thing God told you to do.. in relation to your wife. Expand upon that as how you are supposed to achieve the one thing he told you to do.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
phil, ok you don't need a therapist. you seem to have all the answers, pride goeth before a fall. stop being so doggone arrogant.you are not helping yourself. i am sorry to say, just like the rest of us, you don't have all the answers, that is why we are here. humbleness.
m-54 w-44 children-4 bomb-sept 21 2007 t-21 m-20yrs bomb-sept 23 2007 divorced but not giving up hope, not yethttp://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#post1224023
