Phil, you are not stupid. The emotional restraint that is required throughout all of this is at times unbearable. Not one of us here has been a saint throughout this process.
It doesn't make you stupid to lose control sometimes. It is not what you want to do on a regular basis, but when it happens it is simply a sign that you are human. You do have the right to show weakness and flaws. I would ask you not to judge yourself more harshly than necessary.
From what I read you had 4 good interactions and one oops....that means your batting 800 right now. Not bad for a rookie. If only you knew some of the doosies I pulled when I was where you are. And yes, I came on here and posted about how stupid I was, so I understand what you are feeling. Keep doing as much as you can. When you fall, get up, knock the dust off, and get back in the game. Simple as that.
I have read your entire thread and I have debated whether to join in with the others or not b/c I don't claim to be wise nor am I a professional counselor or anything like that. I have live a lot longer than you and I have observed a lot of other people and their lives and I have read a lot of books (for whatever weight that may have). Something pulls at my heart here and I know you are sensitive and defensive b/c I have the same nature to be that way also. I will try to not offend you by what I say, but I don't always communicate the way I want to get it across and all I can do is try and hope you will understand what I'm trying to say.
First of all, let me endorse some of the others in saying that you are not stupid at all and you need to stop putting yourself down when you make a backslide. I have a saying that I've told to some others that are trying to DB and that is "Just b/c your foot slips....don't jump off the entire mountain". BTW, I had to laugh when you said that you couldn't DB in a wet bag....lol. That was funny.
I hardly know where to start, but I guess I'll go where the main thing keeps standing out above everything else......and that is the children. I know that they are you life! I know that they are what keeps you going and they are why you are putting up with this insanity from day to day. A parent's love is so strong that you would lay down your life without a thought to let them live. That being said, my heart hurts to see what is happening with your children. I am so concerned about your little son. When I read how "spooked" your W would get at the least little thing and even talked about that house she was in being haunted......my gosh, that was enough to scare the kid to death. No wonder he doesn't want to stay with her at night! He probably feels so insecure and has nightmares. It may have a lot to do with his bedwetting. However, my D was a bedwetter also and we never knew why.
It is obvious that your daughter is going through early rebellion and it is going to get real bad real quick, I'm afraid. She doesn't know how to deal with this lifestyle and the son doesn't know how to coop. I know that you want to see them every day....and I do not blame you one bit, b/c I would feel the same way. However, the kind of work shift that your W has.....it is doing a terrible number of any type of reason or stability for these children. They have been tossed around and don't know where they are going to be sleeping or spending the day or with whom until it is going to end up doing some very serious emotional and maybe mental damage on them. Please understand, Phil, that I am not pointing my finger at you for this....okay? I know that you are upset about it. I wish that all of the people here that are trying to give you support and advice could help you come up with an idea of how to help these children have more stability in their home life.
Do you think that your W would consent to let you keep the kids through the week and then set up some type of visitation for her to see them and that way you would have the main responsibility for them. The co-parenting (both parents trying to see them every day) seems to be what is tearing the family apart......at least that is what I'm seeing in the posts that are being written. Your wife is so unstable to the point of being downright scary and she has you on a whirlwind merry-go-round until you can hardly think straight. How can you even try to detach and get a life and do all the other DB principles when everything is centered or triggered around and about the kids? Stop and think about it or go back and read the posts. It seems everytime you see or talk to her, or she to you,....it is in regards to the kids and it usually ends badly. She has to call to talk to them. She harrasses you constantly to know what they are doing every five minutes.....and that is not right. She shouldn't be asking you when they went to bed and how long they slept and things like that. When they are with you....that is your business and she needs to not call, not text, not email.....nothing, until it is her time to keep them, and then you abide by the same standards. But this constant back and forth communication is ruining any chances of things getting better.....IMHO. Almost everytime that the two of you exchange the children from house to house, hurtful words are said before leaving and then you text her back to say you are sorry and you love her, etc. But you had alread said that she couldn't hurt you any longer and things like that......so both of you are going round and round. It is so sad and I just wished that somebody could help you all. A good pro-marriage counselor or priest, or somebody! Personlly, I think she need IC before MC would help. I think she really has some problems that extend the MLC or whatever is happening to her. It could be medical or mentally, but she needs help.
The weird thing to me about your wife is the way she wants to "tease" you. Most WAW's don't want that touchy-touchy stuff. The way she met you at the door in her bathrobe and told you she was naked and then talked about the sports players......that was pure sexual teasing. Why is she doing that? Is it her way of getting her kicks? Is it her way of saying, "Look at this, don't you wished you could have me, but I'm not yours now, and there are others out there that I might just let them have a little taste....". That seems to be the message.....and it is mean. She knows you well. She know exactly what she was doing to you and how it was affecting you! She toys with your emotions. She sets you up to let you down. She is controlling your life and she can blame it on her work schedule or whatever....but that is what she is doing.
Not to make you mad when I say this, but I don't know if you realize it or not, Phil, but the children are beginning to control things also. By that, I mean they call the shots about where they want to stay and with whom and when they want to do it. Am I right? The daughter does. You little boy calls you to come get him or tells you he doesn't want to stay with mommy or the GP......and I understand how you feel about that, I would feel the same way. (BTW, I don't like manipulating grandparents either.) But like I said, when you are in so much pain, it is hard to see what is obvious to some others that aren't in the stitch. And, this is what I'm seeing. I don't have the answers, but I hope you will find some way of getting them more settled before school starts. I know that this sounds terribly old fashion, but when my son was six year old, he was in bed by 8:00 every school night. They need so much sleep to be able to function properly at school the next day. It concerns me to see where your son is leaving her place to go back to yours so late at night, when he should have been in bed hours ago.
Phil, I have grown children and I have grandchildren and I love them with all my being. I hope that you will take what I say from a mother's heart. Your family is going through hell on earth right now and my prayers are that healing will come soon. I am so glad to hear you say that you are turning to God. I also noticed a change in what you were saying this time and from what you were saying last time. Last time, you were wanting God to do this and do that to make you wife do such & such. This time, you were wanting God to help you. That is good. You see, I use to pray that God would make somebody do this or that, but then I learned something about Him. He does not interfer with our volition. He gave us free will to make our own decisions and He is not going to force us to do anything against our will. We can pray that your wife will be influenced by something said or done that will cause her to think about what she is doing to herself and her family. We can all pray, Phil, b/c I believe that it works!
If I forget and call you "sweetie" sometimes, don't be offended and think I am saying you are immature.....that is my pet name for people. Just recently I made a young girl mad b/c I was calling her that and it just stunned me b/c I was really trying to show that I cared. I do care about you and you family. You have had more people to respond to your thread than just about anyone else I've seen. So, I think a lot of folks care.
Don't give up, sweetie. Keep trusting God and ask Him to guide you as to what to do about the children and how to help them through this terrible time in all of your lives.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Wow, if you read my entire thread then you did a lot of reading.
Just woke up in the middle of the night and she is still on my mind.
Tease... Yes I would say so. The five months she stuck around before she left were pure hell in that department. Out of the shower walking around naked. The half nakedness. The look at these nice undies I have on since I lost the weight. When I was dealing with the bubba things you only wear to the doctor visits for eight years.
Even now she shows up in a little skirt and high heels.
I always wanted her hair long. She hates it long. However she hasn't cut it yet.
The whole visitation thing maybe something to consider in the future. I mean if things get bad. I will most likely try and get majority custody becuase her work schedule is so poor.
The bedwetting thing. Hmmmmm... Let me see. No it's called laziness on sons part, and enabling on her part. They both stay up to late. She let them. Then he wants to eat and drink things late. He was wearing pull ups at night. Then she was letting him wear one right after bathing at night. Then he would get lazy and just go in his pull up sometimes before going to bed. Once you program something and make it alright to be lazy they will be lazy.
Since he is with me mostly I'm going to break him of this. The other night when he stayed with her he told me he wore a pullup after we having been using them for 4 days. I program no pullup and don't be lazy and she programs just wear a pullup so I don't have to deal with it. He will be going to bed earlier each night. He will not eat or drink after a certain period of time. I will wake him up early and make him use the restroom.
The daughter. We are going to have trouble in this department. She already has a wicked sass and intelligence to go with it. She played baseball last year. Love it, and she was awesome better than the boys. She is such a tomboy. This year she decides to not play. She wants to play hockey. Well to get her to play fall hockey she would have had to play skills for summer. Summer schedule for hockey is ridiculous. 5 or 5:30 on weeknights. The logistics would never work in our current sitch, because I don't think wife would bend. No put it this way she is never mature enough to talk to me about anything so the whole hockey thing went in the can. Comes down too she says she does'nt need to play. If it wasn't for me, these kids wouldn't do anything. She didn't want her playing baseball either. She will not take them for swim lessons, etc. She is boring as son say it. When I have them we do everything. We she has them they do nothing.
Well the sass from the daughter is only going to get worse. The inlaws also always have the other daughters son too. He is the first child from SIL on her first failed relationship. She doesn't discipline him because of what is going on in their sitch with visitation and court. That kid is bad, going to bad, and unfortunatly might be on the cover of the most likely not to suceed wall.
You can call me sweetie anytime. People are funny about the dumbest stuff. I remember I called this girl Sue once. She said very sternly, my name is Susanne not Sue. Excuse me!
Thank you for posting. Thank you for the prayers. It has to be in Gods hands because my hands are not big enough. I remember talking with my priest and telling him the next time he goes over to the ice cream shop to put the holy smack down on her.
Thank you all for the prayers. Things are still calm with her and I. There may be hope afterall. In the beginning of this I had no hope. Then I had a little hope that she wasn't going to leave. Then I lost all hope because she left. There is still hope. I got that cross in the livingroom right next to our wedding 8x10 photo. Everytime she comes in to do laundry she can have that staring in her face.
I hate using this term, but baby steps, and each week that goes by there is a little more progress.
I am not going to post about daughters today, as I have 5 of them and 3 of them are having their "special" week, so I will try to avoid girl talk at all cost!!
((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
Well she text me at 12. Are you going to class? (She is getting worse in this department, normally she would text me earlier to see if he was up and if he was ok.)
I wait ten and say why?
No response. Ten minutes later...
I text her that he didn't wear a pull up and no accidents.
She text: How is he.
I text He is fine. How are you girls?
She says Good.
End transmission.
Than I texted her friend that I have associated as the B girl. We talked back and forth about the day care fire. I aksed her if she needed anything that her son lost in fire. She said everything was replaced. Then I said I tried to talk to my wife about this because you two are like best friends but the aliens still have her in the mothership.
I get the LOL from her.
I'll end the conversation there.
Being nice to the friend that has the hooks in her. The art of war. Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer.
Well it looks like I'm not going to martial arts class. So son and I are going to run errands.
Son and I go shopping. Find some more pirate stuff. Found a 16" inch statue of a fat bucco, and a nice sign that says history of the pirates. We decide to go home and drop off our stuff and son wants to go to other stores. We need to go to Wal mart and K-mart.
We get home and I can unload the dish washer and fold some clothes. Next thing I know son says Mommy is here.
I was like WTF?
She comes in with laundry basket. She is dressed like a 16 year old with a holter top, short shorts, and little pumps. Not very conservative at all. I'm really calm and I say to her in a soft tone. Didn't I ask you to call me before you showed up at our house. She started yelling I did call you, your daughter left a voice mail.
I look at my phone and what do you know it says voice mail. Blasted cell phones never work right. I said ok I'm sorry but you didn't need to yell about it. I said come here. I try to hug here and she pushes me away. Oh you scream at me and now you want to hug me. I said I wasn't screaming at you I was calm with you and asked you a question. She hugs me then. I kiss her on the cheek and tell her she smells so good.
She starts walking around the house. Oh nice dining room table that is ugly. Where did you get it? Then she walks downstairs and says will you pick up the mattresses for your kids. I'm calm again. No I will not. Why? She asks? Where is the truck? The truck doesn't concern you? The table does not concern you? Nothing in this house concerns you.
She says she is going to the stores and asks son if he wants to go. He says no I'm going to Wal-mart with daddy. She says she is going to Wal-mart and Target. I ask her which Wal-mart, because him and I will go to the other Wal-mart, because I don't want to violate your space. She asks again for me to pick the mattresses and she will give me the money for them.
(My brain is ready to implode again, now she is going to pay for them)
I said sorry I will not. The kids have mattresses here in their home. She gets mad and asks about my truck again. I said that does not concern you either. We are at the doorway and I give her another hug. She walks out of the house. She says this yard looks like sh|t, the corner garden has weeds in it 2 feet tall and it is a mess. I said well maybe someday when you come to the house you can do some yard work.
She is near our Explorer getting ready to get in. I ask daughter to come and give me a hug. So I hug D and give her a kiss. Wife then goes to corner garden and starts pulling up weeds, wearing heels. Better Homes and Garden should have had a snap shot of the humerous drama. I said could you leave the cornstalks there. She said why do you want corn to grow here. I said well it is high and would provide privacy from the neighbors diagonally with huge picture window. You said you always wanted high plants there or a tree, and we tried to grow tall grass and it failed. The corn is growing good and it is virgined. What is virgin corn? Well a virgin plant is something you didn't intend to grow somewhere. The bird feeder seeds had corn and other seeds in it so the are growing now. Which one is the corn. So I point them out.
She says ok i'm leaving I will call you later. I say please do maybe we can do dinner or something. I look in at daughter and smile. I said good bye honey bunny. Then I go to the drivers window, I said dear honestly you look incredible have a nice day.
She says yeah right...and drives off. I smile the whole time acting like none of the drama is affecting me.
It's so laughable. I listened to that voice mail too. It was daughter asking if I would pick up the mattresses and mommy will give me the money. I thought that was the call to show up at the house to do laundry???????
Now at 7 she text me... How is son.
I text... He is fine, how is daughter.
She text. Good.
End transmission.
If this isn't a mid life crisis, I don't know what it?
"Then I said I tried to talk to my wife about this because you two are like best friends but the aliens still have her in the mothership."
Trust me.. from experience.. Nothing good will come from this.
"The art of war. Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."
This is not a war.. the less it resembles one.. the much better off you will be. All this is.. is a time for you to shine.. any way you can. You like shining.. you have told us as much.. this should be really easy for you.
"I was like WTF?"
OK right here is where you need to make an effort to learn. The next time that this situation comes up and you think WTF.. check your phone.. actually take it to the next level and check your messages anyway. Just in case. If there is not one.. use words like.. I must have missed your call. Yes it is likely OK to use some sarcasm in that. A big thing.. It's not so much what you say.. but how you say it.
"I said come here. I try to hug here and she pushes me away."
So you yell at me.. and then want to give me a hug. Look make sure not to do this. I can see where it is working.. but the way it is working.. I am not sure it is having the impact you think it is. Just because I am hugging you.. doesn't mean I like you.
"She starts walking around the house. Oh nice dining room table that is ugly. Where did you get it? Then she walks downstairs and says will you pick up the mattresses for your kids. I'm calm again. No I will not. Why? She asks? Where is the truck? The truck doesn't concern you? The table does not concern you? Nothing in this house concerns you."
Ok.. she left.. I got it.. I understand it. Stop pointing it out.
The simple fact is.. you both feed on the drama. I understand this simply because.. I like it to.
Now.. you can still have some "Drama" in your life.. just make sure it is productive "Drama".
"She says she is going to the stores and asks son if he wants to go. He says no I'm going to Wal-mart with daddy. She says she is going to Wal-mart and Target. I ask her which Wal-mart, because him and I will go to the other Wal-mart, because I don't want to violate your space. She asks again for me to pick the mattresses and she will give me the money for them."
Again.. you pointing out the obvious. The reason you were always saying to me.. that I never said anything .. was because I want you to be smart enough to see it has already been said. I don't like being redundant. You could have left it at which Wal-Mart are you going to.. See where that takes you. If some "Drama" ensues.. go to the other one. You don't need to tell her. Now me.. if some chick I knew.. was going to pay me to pick up some mattresses.. all I would be asking is what time?
I don't understand.. well I do a bit.. but can you not see from what you are posting.. that your timing is all wrong. There is consistently a dig.. then you looking for "affection". It's not stupidity.. It's desperation. Look I don't care how big of a man you are. I don't care how smart of a man you are. I don't care how much money.. or things you have. This s*it right here will make you act like a retard. I know.. I have been one.
Where do you think King of DAM comes from? And just so you know DAM= Dumb As* Man. For a while there.. I was going to have to pass the crown over..
Your number 1 goal should be..
I need to learn when to battle.
Someone asked me once.. Why are you talking to LostPhil.. I told them I did not know.
I know now.. why.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
This round about thing with the mattresses is about all BS. You see I told her to take the beds. I told her to take the mattresses from the house. I also told her to go by them give me the receipt and I'll give you the money. I said that about everything. I said to her if you buy something for the kids then give me the receipt and I will reimburse you.
Never happens. You see she wants me to pick up the mattresses. She wants me to do the divorce paperwork. She wants me to do the refi. She wants me to pay for her car insurance. She wants me to do this or that. Phil isn't responsible for her anymore.
She found a way to move most of the stuff she wanted from the house. She can find a way to get the mattress to her house.
I'm done being an enabler.
I think the dynamics are getting better.
Journal:
Son and I went out shopping all day. At about 5 we decide to go eat dinner. I was hoping I would get a call from wife to join them somewhere but that agian is wishful thinking. She wants nothing to do with me. At seven she text me. How is son? I said he is fine, how is daughter. She text good. End transmission.
At 9:10 she calls us. Says put son on phone. First words. He talks to her for about 10 seconds and says can I tell her where we are at. I said sure. We went to the drive in and were watching speed racer.
She gets back on phone. She's screaming at me. Why didn't you call to ask daughter about going to movies? In a calm voice I ask her to settle down. I said I asked you guys to go to dinner, you never called. You never call me about anything. You never tell me where you are going. Why do I need to tell you were we are at. I get it dear, you don't want nothing to do with me. What I'm saying is I'm done trying with you. I didn't want to call and get rejected and I don't care if I get rejected. I didn't want to listen to sass mouth either. I know she is our daughter but she is a smart a$$. I said I get it. I understand you want nothing to do with me. She is saying a lot of huh huh's and agreeing and I feel like I'm making progress. Then the phone drops the call. I lose total network because of thunderstorms in area.
I text her, sorry call was droped. Network is down. I said son is loving life so happy watching movie in the rain. She text back. ur both crazy. I text back, nope just dumb boys.
1/2 hour later she text: would it be ok if I went to house to get my laundry.
I text: That would be fine, they might not be dry because power went out. Maybe you can make the bed because I watched the sheets and you always made the bed better anyways.
1/2 hour later. I text her: Tell daughter that son is going to send her some chim chim cookies.
She text: Sorry I forgot to make the bed.
I text: I'm sorry you forgot. You have been dealing with a tuff schedule. I know you have had alot on your mind. Try and get some rest.
She text: Thanks.
I text: That's what friends are for. Be strong.
I text: My love is beyond love for you. Im sorry you never saw it or I never showed it the right way. You can either accept it and embrace it or dismiss, but its there.
She text 1/2 hour later. Are you guys home yet.
I text: Why? She text: I just want to know where my son is. I text: R u home.
No answer.
I said how is daughter. She text sleeping.
about 1/2 hour later I text her. I found a letter I wrote to you before we got married. I said I'm a guy. I just want to go to work come home and kiss the wife and go to sleep eventually. I don't want the fighting. I do not show my emotions. Sorry. I said I loved you then. I say I love you now. I could write the same letter today.
No repsonse. I text her Good night.
She text back: Nite
It's like a vicious cycle repeating from over ten years ago. She has always been a hot head and has fought with me over everything. In the beginning I let it roll. Then over the years I just fought back with her. It's the same complaint. I don't feel like you love me. I never feel liked you loved me. Nothing is ever going to change.
In counseling one session she told the counselor that she wanted a divorce since the first year. Well looking back I think the first year was hard. She wanted to control me and I didn't want to be controlled. Now she is controlling the relationship by moving out, but all it is really doing is hurting our family.
I never felt like I was in control during the marriage anyways. She has always been a tyrant, and I was the 15 year trying to be locked up in her compound.
"Your number 1 goal should be.. I need to learn when to battle."
I agree and I agree there will no more battles.
"Someone asked me once.. Why are you talking to LostPhil.. I told them I did not know."
This part you should have left out Forrest. That is for you to figure out not me.
"I know now.. why."
Hmmmm, you told me ealier why did I bother to post to you today. I said I did'nt know, and I said some other smart a$$ sh|T to go with it. Then you told me to wrap my 200,000 brain cells around it. I didn't give it anymore thought...
Ok, so know you no why. That's great... "I said maybe you are a lot like me." It took you days to realize that????
Man here is what sucked. I really was reading M go blue. That dude had his sh|t together. At least I thought he did, and then I read the post where he said today was the day his divorced was finalized. He was with someone else. blah, blah, blah, blah, speed racer, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, blah....
No matter what he did to DB he couldn't save his marriage. Did he become a better person. Sure. Would he have become a better person without this site. Who knows. A lot of his post came from Hazelton rehab or something.
Do you have a chance.... Only if the other person wants to give it to you.
I think we have the opportunity to make things worse. We do it on a daily basis. Hell I know I do. I know where I fail with her at. Then I continue to do it.
I know the nice route works with her, but then she treats me like a doormat. I think being stern and continuing to be stern in a loving manner is what is working. Being calm, not reacting, keeping her calm. If she flips then let her flip.
One thing I missed in the journal up there: I told her that we found some Pirates of the Caribben lamps at K-mart and they were only seven bucks each. She said where the hell are you going to put them. You have too much stuff in that livingroom now. I said I couldn't pass them up they were so nice. Well you have too much stuff. Why does she even care?
I think I'll be getting more stuff. Pirates like clutter...
I need to find a canon, cabine canon that is period.
I need a ship wheel, and I need a bloody nice compass.
