Really come over and do the laundry, Forrest. I'm not even going to dignify your statement.
No I did not slam the door. I closed the door. I have been closing the door before she leaves the driveway. I'm not interested in her bull crap. The door may sound loud when it closes. However if anybody needs a lesson in shutting doors it is her.
She is just looking for something, anything to provoke me and I'm not buying into it.
Oh I put her clothes in the dryer. This time I didn't use a fabric softner sheet. Then I just took the whole ball of crap and put it in the basket when it was done. She can fold it, that will show her. I'm a force to be reckoning with.
Whatever dude, we have been down this road. The laundry isn't even worth arguing over. She will just find something else. The laundry is a bread crumb. I think what pisses me off is that she'll come and do the laundry and disregard everything else. I asked her the other night to make the bed because my sheets were in the dryer and she asked to come over and do laundry. Then all of sudden she forgot to do it. So if she can forget to do something I ask like call before coming to the house, or call when going into the house, or forget about doing a favor by getting a favor. Then I'm not going to fold it.
Forrest you are not even funny. I thought we were suppose to concentrate on what works, and what doesn't.
I think I will be more careful and closing the door silently so that it doesn't sound like a loud shut. Trust me we both know how to slam doors we have been down that road in our marriage.
She is acting like an irresponsible teenager, well irresponsible teenagers should get things taken away from them. One of them being favors. I don't think you are listening to me.
Her friend feeded her bullsh|t about how her parents operate. Her dad was a total alcoholic both of them are divorce, and now he is sober and he does everything for his exwife. Cuts the grass, paints, does all the manly stuff, etc...
Her is another feed of bullsh|t from her words. My mother treats my father like [censored] and he never called her names or was violent towards her. Her mothers temper is about a cream puff compared to hers. Her mother also knows when to quit. My wife doesn't know when to quit, never did. Always wants to get the last word. She would say stuff in front of my friends and my friends would say I wonder what she says when we are not around she is pretty wicked.
Should I even bring up the laundry issue to her again? The only reason I put it in the basket is so that she wouldn't be walking around this house when she gets off work.
Disappearing with quickness. Ok goodbye then. This is what I don't understand. She is doing what she wants and she is still miserable.
Forrest you are not talking to me either you are ridiculing me and I don't appreciate it.
Phil, I understand Sandi's concerns but correct me if I am wrong you are no where near that point right? There's a huge difference between being a neglectful mom and just being ignorant.
I think you are doing much better. I also think there is a little truth to what Forrest is saying to you about the drama and it is completely understandable. It can be difficult to stay out of the drama when your life as you know it is turned upside down.
You are handling yourself much better with her lately. I love the validating at the car, fantastic.
As far as the laundry goes, just a suggestion, but next time put her crap in a garbage bag and place it on the porch for next time she arrives. Take care of your kids stuff, but do not help with hers at this point. Sometimes in order to train a pup you have to smack it's nose a few times and rub it in their own shitt.
Everything you have said I have considered. In my opinion I think the worse thing to do to her would be to file for full custody. In my IMHO I think I would get it. I think it would take a lot of time and a lot of money. In the long run the kids get hurt more.
It's like I said in the past. Someone told me to go to the courthouse and file for full custodial control of the children and if she left she wouldn't be able to take the kids from the home. I really think this action would have put us on the extreme path of hate.
Yes you are right. She is driving my Explorer that I bought for her. The title is in my name. Yes I'm paying for the car insurance. You see the split happened at a bad time. Tax time. Lots of money came back into the household and she felt like she was entitled to it.
Funny how she hasn't asked for any of the economy boost rebate.
Yes I did see the paperwork for child support on her kitchen counter. She hasn't said anything about it. When she filled out the paperwork for the divorce on line. She waved all alimony, and child support. We were going to have shared custody of the children. She just wanted out.
Maybe I should have taken that deal.
Maybe it is mental. Maybe she will never come to her senses.
Here is the deal. Whatever she does I'm not going to be affected by it. I am getting stronger. I am acting better. I have given it up the Lord. My job is to not take it back.
Maybe I do need to change more. Maybe I have changed enough. Maybe she will just keep stabbing me in the heart until I'm in the gutter.
Astimegoeson- She does do a lot of laundry. Didn't you read the story about the water meter? Yes she would do at least two loads a day. She wasn't one to let it pile up and do it all in one day. Sometimes I would have to think about what I was wearing for work and say did I wear this yesterday. Because it was already washed and hung back up in the closet.
She was a machine when it came to the house. It was like an operating room. All of my friends wanted to hire her to clean their houses. However the more I clean stuff the more things I find covered up. She would never clean the inside of the stove, and that always bothered me. When we were first married I would ask her what she did all day, because you know I would be wipped out from work. She said she cleaned. Then I would go above the window trim or door trim and have a giant dust ball. I didn't care but it use to tick her the hell off. I just thought it was funny because it was like the drill sergent using the white glove test. I mean the first thing I would look at would I would find dirt. Cleaned all day my a$$. The house wasn't even dirty when I left. Maybe some light dusting and vacumm was all that needed done. I gurantee the rest of the time was talking on the phone and watching tv.
Ian I don't think putting the laundry in a bag is worth it either. I should have just left it in the washer and I could have said oh I forgot to put it in the dryer. No I don't think she is negletful. I think she was a very good mother that was too overprotective. However even before the bomb I noticed her getting lazy about taking care of the kids. Kids would ask for something to eat or something and she would say. Oh I forgot.
Really though my son is a handful. Even now at almost 11 he wants something to eat. He is whinning to me now he wants soup. We just left the pizza resturant after 8. He came home and had a pudding after we did a little shopping. I got the kids a couple of outfits and I found that set of tikki lights I needed to wrap around the end table. Reminds me I got some coll tikki painted pirate skulls off ebay. I let her take the outfits with her tonight. Yes I'm saving receipts for everything I buy them.
In the real world these kids should already be in bed. Yes he is playing his cards on me too. Since I will not give him the soup he just told me he wants to stay over night with his mother.
Sandi-Bipolar may be a possibility, like I said her Uncle is manic and is heavly medicated in and out of facilities.
I don't think her mother is too stable either and like I said don't even get me started with her sister that didn't even graduate high school and knows everything about life.
Ian, no divorce still isn't in my vocabulary. I am Catholic and I believe in those precepts of the church. I shall not waiver. I don't believe we have crossed a point of no return. There is still no evidence of infidelity.
Look she has already made it hard on herself. She left this house. Can I get her for abandonment for a breech of contract for the mortgage? I heard this said to me. Should I go to the courthouse and file for total control of the house. My neighbors wife did that to him and he had to leave the house. They are now into a 2 1/2 year divorce proceeding and her boyfriend lives with her. Woman really have the upper hand in this state.
I was at a indoor flee market last weekend and there were a lot of sea/pirate type decorations. I thought about you. You would have liked it.
In one of your post you mentioned that your W's father was an alcoholic. My W's father was/is an alcoholic. He was a Womanizer and abusive to her Mom. They are divorced now, but I think this affected the way my stbx looks at relationships. Before me, her ex's were all alcoholics and abusive to her. Very similar to her Dad. I remember in the beginning of our relationship, she tried to push me to the point that I would loose my temper and act like her Dad did towards her Mother. I set the tone for a new type of relationship for her from the beginning and let her know I was not interested in the type of relationship her Dad and Mom had. I think in some ways, that may be one of the reasons she reverted back to both her abusive ex's. She needed the abuse because I think that she saw that as normal in a relationship.
I know that might sound odd, but maybe your W's behavior is due to her upbringing more so than your marriage. If she came from a dysfunctional home chances are good she's looking for that.
Just a thought. We are always trying to understand the mind of a WAS and sometimes it can go all the way back to their childhood.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
"I have been closing the door before she leaves the driveway."
Tell me something I did not know from your first post.
"I'm not interested in her bull crap."
I am not interested in yours either.. I have seen a lot of it. Yet I am still posting to you. Little tip for you.. she sees the same thing I do. Difference is.. I did not WA.
"The door may sound loud when it closes."
It sounds a lot like a locked thread. I heard that. You did to.
"However if anybody needs a lesson in shutting doors it is her."
Are you going to prove it to her? Last I checked.. the only one learning here is you. You missed.. this is all about you. You come here you post. You don't like it. You fight it. You call everyone out. You say stuff to hurt people. You ask me how many shrimp I have. Lot of YOU.. in that. Count um.
Here is one for you to count.. YOU are very likely smarter than me. So.. on that note. You could win. ALL you have to do.. is get over YOU.
"She is just looking for something, anything to provoke me and I'm not buying into it."
You have 5 threads here stating otherwise. Nothing but Drama. Do I need to copy and paste them. You feed off of it too.. do not deny it.. it is a part of you and her.
"Oh I put her clothes in the dryer. This time I didn't use a fabric softner sheet."
OMG.. NO FABRIC SOFTENER. Did you do it because you did not want her to smell fresh? She is fresher than you without it.
"Then I just took the whole ball of crap and put it in the basket when it was done. She can fold it, that will show her. I'm a force to be reckoning with."
I can almost smell it from over here.. You should have used a dryer sheet.
"Whatever dude, we have been down this road."
Oh.. thats right 2X4's don't work. See my road was paved with stupid. Me and my wife.. paved it together. At times I heard her saying the lines should move left a bit. Are you 2 really any different?
"The laundry isn't even worth arguing over."
Dear God.. I thought we were over the laundry weeks ago. Are you still stuck on that?
"She will just find something else."
So will you.. next time it might be she pees crooked.
"The laundry is a bread crumb. I think what pisses me off is that she'll come and do the laundry and disregard everything else. I asked her the other night to make the bed because my sheets were in the dryer and she asked to come over and do laundry. Then all of sudden she forgot to do it. So if she can forget to do something I ask like call before coming to the house, or call when going into the house, or forget about doing a favor by getting a favor. Then I'm not going to fold it."
So you did not want her to do laundry. Then it was OK if she called. Then it was can you do some of mine. Blah.. Blah.. Blah.
Simple story.. she did not do what you wanted. Imagine that. Last I checked.. you were not giving her a reason to.. you were slamming the door.
"Forrest you are not even funny. I thought we were suppose to concentrate on what works, and what doesn't."
Were was I funny? The rest of it.. was crap. You are not concentrating on what works.. or what dosen't. All you can see is the DRAMA. Brandnewday.. wrote out a full challenge.. and got nothing. Tell you what.. when you stop focusing on the Drama.. then we will talk about what to do.
"I think I will be more careful and closing the door silently so that it doesn't sound like a loud shut. Trust me we both know how to slam doors we have been down that road in our marriage."
So you are saying the sound is familiar.. well she heard it. I gotta believe her.. simply because you wrote it.
"She is acting like an irresponsible teenager, well irresponsible teenagers should get things taken away from them. One of them being favors. I don't think you are listening to me."
I am.. you sound like you might be 13. Are you going to spank me now. I still have some shrimp to count. What are you going to make fun of now? I am bald. I have a small brain. Please.. show me something new.
"My wife doesn't know when to quit, never did."
Simply because.. someone was feeding her. Its hard to know when to stop.. when things go exactly the way you expect them.
"Always wants to get the last word."
LOL... you resemble that remark.
"She would say stuff in front of my friends and my friends would say I wonder what she says when we are not around she is pretty wicked."
Based on your show right here.. I am asking the same question.
What those friends missed was you loved her..
"Should I even bring up the laundry issue to her again?"
Do you really need to ask that question? If you do.. F NO.
Leave the detergent out.
"The only reason I put it in the basket is so that she wouldn't be walking around this house when she gets off work."
Last I checked.. you want her walking around in her skimpy clothes. You just have not figured out how to keep her there.
"Disappearing with quickness. Ok goodbye then. This is what I don't understand. She is doing what she wants and she is still miserable."
Miserable.. is better than you. Are you going to let her WA to Miserable? Or are you going to make her Miserable?
The choice has always been yours.
"Forrest you are not talking to me either you are ridiculing me and I don't appreciate it."
The simple fact remains.. you know what to do.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
NO I DON'T - Time and space. If its meant to be than its meant to be. Those are her words, and words from the pig girl. I should stalk her because that is what she thought I was going to do.
You mentioned I love her was the difference my friends didn't see. I love her more than life itself.
The choice is mine? Ok thanks, again not helpful.
You also mentioned BND giving me a challenge. WTFreak do you think I'm doing. I'm not texting her. I'm not prusuing. Now the little communication I did had that I thought was working is gone. All the affection is gone. She doesn't come in and give me the cheek to kiss anymore. She hasn't kissed me on the cheek or said I love you like she was. I'm not getting hugs, wether they are good bad or indifferent. Will this cause her to crash? Will this cause her to miss me? It's worth a try and it has only been a few days. BND is very helpful you however are not. You are clouding her post with nonsense. I'm asking you not to post to me unless you have something constructive to say. I read a lot of post from M go blue. Really good stuff, only bad part it ended in divorce so that wasn't very encouraging. I still can't find Jacks post and how he is the champion of detachment. Really is the right path? Does my wife have a mental illness and I'm treating this all wrong?
RUN FORREST RUN! Being smarter or dumber than you isn't going to help me. You know it is funny you people all do it. You all can be condescending, egotistical, witty Smart A$$es, and call people names to get them to the point of anger and whatever else and then when they fight back a little the moderator locks the thread. And they lock it without warning.
Didn't I say I felt like putting a damn bullet in my head. Why are you screwing with me. Just please go away. Learn how to talk to people. You pick apart my post and merry-andrew it with comments that mean nothing to me. You have read something I wrote and get the story all wrong or half wrong. Look I didn't slam the door. I shut the door. Like I'm shutting the door on you. Good bye Forrest.
Astimegoeson, I mentioned her Dad was an alcoholic??? I think I said sometimes being an alcoholic is a perception. I remember her father asked me to quit drinking because he was sick of hearing his daughter harp about it. I challenged him to quit drinking with me. You see he always has to have that beer or two with dinner. I don't need it. He wouldn't do it. I don't think he could do it. When you rely on alcohol then chances are you are an alcoholic. Sometimes it is about perception. My father in laws mother was an alcoholic and so was the other son. Her uncle was intensive care for three monthes with a pancreas infection. How does one get a pancreas infection. Extreme alcohol abuse. Her uncle son killed himself. Why? My father in law believes because his brother wasn't there for him. Well guess what he says I'll always be his son in law and he will love me, but his is not here for me now.
My wife didn't drink at all. I like my suds. Guess what I'm still not drinking the suds.
The dysfunctional part of the family. Well I think their mother terriorized them when they were little. I hear stories all the time. If there was a thunderstorm her mother acted like it was the end of the world. If the power went out then the Russians were nuking us. If the kids were bad they were threatened with the police being called. Her father is a really stable guy, but I have seen him loose his cool. Most of the time he acts self righteous and humble. He is usually a peacemaker, and sometimes a cream puff. I on the other hand swing back, sometimes it is with great vengeance.
Forrest: The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee. Ezekiel 25:17
Are you sheparding the weak or are you attempting to poison? Because I'm seeing a lot of poison from you Forrest.
Journal:
She picks up the kids at 11:30 She comes into great room and says don't hug me I'm all wet. Well I wasn't going to hug her anyway. I don't know if she was telling the kids that or make a general statement to everyone. She smelt like a burnt waffle cone and reaked of bleach and stale vanilla. She asks what kids are coming with me. They both said they were going with her. She said what is up with you son wanting to be with mommy now.
She was very calm, and didn't say much. So there was nothing to validate. Then I'm thinking that when she said she was wet and smelled. I could have said, well you are a hard worker and hard workers get dirty. Maybe next time...
We walk out to other side of house and she gets her laundry basket and looks a little disheveld that nothing is folded, or is the Pirate room getting to her. I tell d to take the left over pizza so they can eat it tomorrow since wife is off.
I carried son out to car and kissed him. Wife got in the car ahead of me totally avoiding all contact I guess. She starts cranking the radio again. I walk behind the vehicle and give d a kiss. She was exhuasted and should have been sleeping. Little hard when the music is blarring. Wife says good bye to me. I say good bye. Walk away, and I don't even look at her anymore. Give the wave symbol over the hood of the car. Walk in the house, shut the door, and turn out the lights. This time she was halfway past the house. Was that another slam? No! It is me shutting the door on her. Not looking like some sad little puppy watching her leave with my kids and waving good night. It's me detaching. Did I fuel the fire about the laundry issue? No because it was late and probally the wrong time. Did I fuel the fire by saying thanks for calling me tonight to see what was going on? Nope...
I can't care what she does or does not do. I can't control her. I can't change her. She isn't well. The aliens have her.
I can change myself. I'm looking for what that is.
I can change myself. I'm looking for what that is.
Your getting the hang of this. Change is usually anything that doesn't resemble the status quo. It can't be artificial change or change for the sake of change. It has to be sincere and it has to be for you, not her or to save your M. It has to also be positive change. We can't change our personality or our core being, but we can change our behavior. E.G., anger, control, stubbornness, inpatients, addictions and/or dependencies, dishonesty, laziness, complacency, apathy, indifference, intolerance, prejudice, self pity, etc. These are some of the behaviors that will dictate the tone of your interpersonal relationships. These are things we can change and improve on.
Forrest does have a point, you know what you need to do. What is it that your W is telling you by her words and actions? It does you no good to chalk it all up to MLC. You had a part in it to. We don't listen and that's half the problem. The other half, we can't control, but some of us have a hard time accepting that and aggravate ourselves trying.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
OK, I am a little irritated right now, reading this thread and the rubbish posted here.
Please tell me what you guys are trying to do to this poor man!!!
Filling his head with BS and anxiety.
His wife is typical MLC/WAS.
Her actions are normal.
Yes she has issues, but read over on the MLC forum and she is no different then anyone else's Spouse.
She is not out screwing anyone, or introducing the kids to any OM.
She is not coming over drunk or on drugs
She is NOT abusing her kids, maybe a bit neglectful at times but definately not abusive.
The idea is not to punish her and some of the ideas you are putting into Phil's head are totally unneccesary and extreme and could be quite destructive.
FG, I understand that you are trying to be helpful but you nitpick everything to death. Perhaps condense things and learn how to use the quote button to make reading easier. I think some of your posts are meant to antagonize him.
Much of what Phil posts here are his thoughts, he vents, this is his journal, his thread.
I believe Phil is making changes, at his pace. He is self correcting things, he is recognizing things.
For many of us it took a long time to learn how to detach and how to handle our situations and the curve ball that was thrown.
Jack and Ian both did many things to help their situations, they are good Men to ask for help and guidance.
Be patient, be encouraging.
Sorry Phil, I know this is your thread, sorry if I stepped on some toes, but enough is enough.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
What are THEY trying to do? Phil has driven off every experienced DBer who has come here to try and help him, giving back nothing but venom, hubris and sarcasm in the process.
Sorry, I totally disagree with you. I frankly have admired Forrest's, yours and other's patience; you obviously had more of it than I did.
I see Newcomers coming here at an alarming rate, crying out for help, and some don't even get any responses. Phil has has a TON of help -- some of it loving/patient and some of it 2-4 -- and all he does is drive everyone away.
Phil, you've learned nothing if you can't see where FG is trying to help you. I will go back to honoring your request to not post on your thread, but I have been reading every single post, and you're just not gettin' it, buddy.
