PDT, I respectfully ask you to list ALL of the things in your opinion that Phil should be doing..... Tell me what has been working for you in your situation and what isn't working. Thanks.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
PDT, I respectfully ask you to list ALL of the things in your opinion that Phil should be doing..... Tell me what has been working for you in your situation and what isn't working. Thanks.
No thank you. Phil has asked me not to post here, and I shouldn't even have posted the above, but I just wanted to defend Forrest and others who are trying to help "poor Phil."
If Phil wants my help, he can ask. I apologized to him previously, and he just blew me off. There are far too many other people that need my help, and who seem to appreciate it.
I have been following your thread intermittently and it seems like you are getting a pretty good handle on things. It took me several months of some intense emotions (including some of the darker places you have been) before I go to the point I am at now. I must say this site was instrumental in me finally getting a grip and more importantly coming to an understanding of what my W was going through and thinking.
I have to agree with BND, it sounds very much like a MLC. Having been through it/going through it, I can say it is one heck of a ride and can be a long one. Like you have mentioned, it is like having a teenager....unfortunately it is one that you really can't punish effectively without worstening the situation.
The two things that helped me out the most were to read the forums over there and read up on the whole MLC process (it can be pretty eye opening). The other thing that helped me a lot initially was getting some advice from AmyC. I know you two have shared some barbs in the past, but there is a lot to be said about getting the honest perspective of someone who has been in the position of your W in the past.
I would even consider moving your thread over to that forum, it gets a lot of traffic (almost as much as the newcommer one) and you might find a little more familiarity in the sitches over there.
Best wishes and continue your improvements....they are noticeable
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
Puppy go away! You are immature. Sorry I'm not going to apologize to you for anything. Are you not a grown man? You need me to validate your behavior against me by having me apologize to you. Forget it! If you don't like it then, Stop reading my post. If I don't get it then I don't get it. That is for me to figure out. Right I'm not listening to her. Okay the slamming door thing was just a button pusher. Obviously she is trying to figure out how to push my buttons and make me angry so she will try to find anything.
Forrest go away. You nickpick and yes you try to antangonize me. Puppy, you antangonize me too. "who are trying to help "poor Phil."" You are also the poison, and are not your brothers keeper. Look up the word compassion. It states sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it. You are not alleviating it. I asked you not to post and I meant do not post.
Like I said this is click. Puppy, Forrest is his own person he doesn't need a puppy to stick up for him against a dog.
Some come to sing, some come to dance, and some come to scare the dogs away.
Brandnewday, you have been wonderful. I have accepted your challenge about the texting. I hate it. I felt like I was at least reaching her in the evenings. I would only communicate with her if she tried to communicate with me. Her communication has become less and less. Yes maybe this has alleviated some of the drama. Things for the most part are calm. I haven't helped her with anything either. Looks like the big girl went out and got her own mattresses for the kids. I haven't enabled or given her any money. Something funny about last night was. Oh daddy bought you guys more clothes. Why? Then she said she hoped that there was some nicer things that daughter could wear to church. I said d just got a new set of Pj's and another soccer outfit. She can wear the soccer outfit to church. Kids show up at church wearing their soccer uniforms.
It like a dead plant syndrome. The plant is dead, but we are going to put a big yellow ribbon on it and say it looks nice.
Twindad, Thank you for posting. I do notice some changes about me not reacting to her. Sometimes it sounds like she comes down off the mother ship for a little while. Then she zaps back up to it. I can't let it affect me. There is nothing to understand. It is her journey. She needs to figure out if she wants that journey to be with me or without me. She needs to figure out if we want to have a crappy relationship or a good one.
Look her friend and sister and however else filled her head up with so much bullsh|t. Her friend the one I call the pig girl said that her and her exhusband are the dorkiest divorced couple around. No fault no contest divorce with shared custody on there child. Her ex remarried. She says she isn't sorry about it, but deep down I know she is. I asked her if she wish he didn't remarry and she says F no. I don't believe her. I think they went to the together stage, but he remarried. She says she loves his new wife, and his new wife and family are really good to her daughter.
Other things: Her uncle and aunt were divorced for a year, and she says maybe we will be like them.
This is what she wants. She wants to be independent. So I need to find a way to give her that independance. She isn't now. She comes home and does laundry, and its her way of checking up on her house. Is it clean? Is there something new she doesn't like or approve of? I'm still paying for her car insurance and she is driving my explorer. Is she thinking that is her claim on the marriage.
I talked to my buddy about it this morning. She took all the expensive things out of the house. Why did she feel she was entitled to them. Her parents bought us a large blessed mother painting that hung in our living room. They bought it for us, for our home. Why was she entitled to it. Everything she took she said I bought it for her, so she took it. Really I bought it for us.
I know one thing. I have to stay sober. That is one thing that I know for a fact will not help the situation. I have even been accused of drinking because I had the bar smell on me. Well I go there to eat. Bars have good food.
Oh yeah AmyC and I are really best friends, she just doesn't know it yet. AmyC likes to hide behind excuses in my opinion. If she was MLC, then act like an MLC and go back home and lay down the law. Something is telling me she isn't ready to do it, she is still on her own journey. I haven't read her past sitch too much but from what people are saying it went to the depths of hell. She fought the devil and won. However the snares of hell keep trying to pull her back.
She doesn't speak with compassion either. I think a lot of people on these boards need to learn compassion.
PDT, I respectfully ask you to list ALL of the things in your opinion that Phil should be doing..... Tell me what has been working for you in your situation and what isn't working. Thanks.
List Incoming...
From Phoenixdeux..
LostPhil needs to loose some anger and bitterness.
LostPhil needs to look inward at things he could be doing differently and making yourself a better husband (and father).
Quit pointing the finger at your wife like this is all her fault.
Do more listening...
Quit trying to fix things.
BE CONSISTENT.
Always be the grown-up.
ACT AS IF he is fine with whatever happens.
Stop sounding desperate and needy.
Set his own effective boundaries.
From Bworl...
Stop Drinking. Stop being violent. Stop treated her like [censored]. Stop throwing your weight around and making her feel like what SHE wanted was unimportant.
Go get help, counseling. With a real counselor.
From Just Beau...
No pursuing. No fighting for her.
From Puppy Dog Tails...
Stop acting like an azz, especially in front of your kids. Please stop it, and LISTEN to the phenomenal advice you're getting here.
Now I only made it thru the first thread.. LostPhil knows what to do. It has been spelled out here in many different ways. Do I need to keep going with my list?
Maybe I am nit picking.. I should be.. because the quicker LostPhil can pull off a flawless performance.. the better his chances he could win.
I just picked out the high points.. I would be here all day if I put everything in.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Now.. Phil is changing.. he is doing.. really well for where he came from.
I am impressed that he has changed as much as he has... Can't discount it at all.. It just needs to be more. The change needs to be Dramatic and Long Lasting.
If he thinks I am attacking him.. that's ok.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
"I think a lot of people on these boards need to learn compassion."
Maybe you need to look around and see if you are looking at things wrong.
I feel your pain.. I would love for it to stop. Are you going to let someone help you.. or are we going to fight to the death?
I have walked in your shoes. Most of the people posting to you have. Most of those people would have really loved if someone spoke the truth to them when they first started posting.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
I do notice some changes about me not reacting to her. Sometimes it sounds like she comes down off the mother ship for a little while. Then she zaps back up to it. I can't let it affect me. There is nothing to understand. It is her journey. She needs to figure out if she wants that journey to be with me or without me. She needs to figure out if we want to have a crappy relationship or a good one.
Look her friend and sister and however else filled her head up with so much bullsh|t. Her friend the one I call the pig girl said that her and her exhusband are the dorkiest divorced couple around. No fault no contest divorce with shared custody on there child. Her ex remarried. She says she isn't sorry about it, but deep down I know she is. I asked her if she wish he didn't remarry and she says F no. I don't believe her. I think they went to the together stage, but he remarried. She says she loves his new wife, and his new wife and family are really good to her daughter.
I glad you understand it isn't all about you. That was hard for me to initially understand. Don't get me wrong, I know I have plenty to work on and am doing that. It just hepled with the frustration I was experiencing to realize that a large portion of this was her journey.
I do feel you might have a more difficult yourney in what you are going through in that my W's friends and family were not supportive of her choice but still showed her love. IN the end it might not matter anyways because a MLCer will isolate themselves from everyone except those that believe what she is doing is right.
It will and is a roller coaster or as I like to refer to it as riding a mechanical bull. At least with a roller coaster you can see where it is going with a a mechancical bull you never know which way it is going to turn.
I have been using the best friend approach with no expectations pretty effectively (I did experiment with the dark approach a little bit with obviously bad results).....it can be very painful sometimes but in the end I know I am doing it from my heart. When my W and I sep, I gave her first choice on everything. I told her she could have whatever furniture etc (granted we had plenty), but my point was, it didn't matter. I figured she could drain me to pennyless and I would still get a check the next week. The only place I stood firm was with my kids. I insisted on equal physical custody (though we never entered a formal agreement). Some may think I was too flexible, but we just wrote an offer on a house together yesterday and we have been staying together every day in june.
Don't be affraid to do what is working for you. The text challenge presented to you is nice, but if it has decreased the positive contact you two were having then perhaps it needs to be re-evalauted.
I know AmyC can be pretty abrasive, but like you said she has fought some pretty big demons and has been in the biggest fight of her life for quite some time. I admire her experience and persistance.
I do feel alot of the people on these boards (myslef inclduded) could benefit from a few DB techniques in dealing with each other here. I think when trying to help each other we sometimes continue to go down cheeseless tunnels numerous times in an effort to get through.
Keep up the hard work, you are doing good!
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
It is an analogy of the rookie. I am a rookie db'r. The old timers are telling me what to do, and doing it the hard way. Rookie isn't going to listen. Rookie has to make his own name for himself. Rookie has to make his own mistakes. Rookie has to surprise the old timers. Rookie takes everything in, processes all advice, and then rookie explodes with greatness.
Believe in yourself!
Twindad, Yes I do think the texting at night was positive. Now she has shut off all communication. She has the children call me instead of speaking with me directly. She communicates through the children. She has pushed away everyone good in her life.
I think a lot of us on these boards need to stop talking about other people. We need to stop defending other people. You want to help someone and they give you some licks back, then you leave it between them. You shouldn't be arguing with other db'rs about the actions and advice others have given. You need to talk to the person of the thread, not to people on the thread.
Maybe PM's or an email system would help. Your thoughts do not need to be told to stick up for someone. We are all grown ups here.
I do believe BND is right in sticking up for the orginator of the thread. However that doesn't mean you should attack back on that thread to justify your actions. Lostphil doesn't need you or anyone else to justify yours or someone else's actions.
Forrest, Yes I have read all those things. I do believe I have implemented a lot of them. I don't know where the stop drinking thing came from, because I don't drink anymore.
Stop being snappy and violent with or at her. Yes I have changed that. She wants to pick weeds in the flower garden in her heels. Go right ahead. She wants to look like an idiot in front of the neighbors go right ahead.
My old neighbor next to me said, man I don't know how you put up with her. She cranks on you about everything. I said you know what old neighbor buddy, I heard some stories about your wife. How she would chase the kids in the neighborhood for retrieving balls from her yard. How she was the alarm clock of the neighborhood. How did you put up with yours. I know your wife is gone now and I never met her. He defended her and said she wasn't that bad.
