MAN UP

[TwinDad]

Mike,

I appreciate your kind words. I got my inspiration from reading about Diehard's sitch. He took a similar path but I must admit he had a much tougher journey than I have had. He is the "Man" in Man Up in my opinion. I wonder if I could ever have the compassion and stamina that he did. It was after reading his sitch that I truly felt empowered in my R and to be able to feel good about it as well. He is worth checking out.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Man up doesn't mean become an ass.

It also does not mean throw your weight around and bark out orders.

But I would honestly love to hear from any of the women out here as to whether or not they would have respect for a man who allowed a wandering female spouse to do whatever they chose to do and just accepted it.

To me man up means to be honest about who you are and what you think is appropriate from a spouse.

And yes, sometimes that means boundaries. But as J3B is quick to remind us, boundaries mean nothing unless we are ready and willing to enforce them. And that means consequences.

Consequences are not punishments.

We are not dealing with children here.

Our spouse, regardless of their wacked out emotional condition, knows dog goned well what is right and what is not. They might have become like an alien, but they have not left the planet. They know full well when they are crossing lines.

It's my belief that reasonably applied and enforced boundaries for behavior, with consequences that are for OUR protection and care, are not things that close the door or seal the deal for our wives.

And if you are a man who is tolerating a cheating, cake eating spouse, and encouraging that behavior by condoning it implicitly through your neediness, I think you're much more likely to be treading down the path of "sealing the deal."

A woman who does not respect you is not going to want to return to you.

There is room for manning up. In fact there is a strong need for it with some of the guys who come to this board. We just need to be good about making it clear just what that means and doesn't mean.


Blessings,

Bill

This post of Bill's pretty much sums up my view as well. As many of you know, I'm as "tough love" as anyone around here, but "tough love" needs to include both elements -- the "tough" AND the "love."

Too many approaches emphasize one at the expense of the other.

I also think the tough approach works best when it represents a sort of "180" for the person, especially if that person is a man. If they have been overly enabling, overly passive, allowing cake-eating, etc., in the past marriage history, then it can be extremely effective. However, if they've been overly controlling, then it may be a counterproductive approach (CAVEAT: if the person was TRULY controlling in the past. NOT if a spouse actively involved in an affair CLAIMS "controlling" behavior on the part of the betrayed spouse, because that is classic affair script and usually so much b.s.!)

I also believe that there are a whole different set of dynamics when infidelity is involved, that require different, often tougher, approaches.

To me, "man up" means that you set and enforce boundaries, WHILE DBing (GALing, etc.) and shining a path back to the marriage.

Great topic, SG!!

- Puppy

[Mike85]

sleeper:

It struck me that as an obvious fan of Dune, you could cite the Bene Gesserit "Litany Against Fear" in DB posts:

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

Back on topic - kids came with me when I went to mow MIL&FIL's lawn. MIL is having hard time with W's MLC behaviors, FIL's Parkinson's disease, trying to sell their house, etc., so she calls me to help out. It's important for my sons to see that family relationships aren't severed b/c one individual has chosen to "opt out," how family obligations should be met in hard times, etc. I don't know if W is aware that her parents stop by to visit me every couple of weeks and that I've been doing yardwork for them, and I don't know how she would feel about it if she did know. The truth is, it doesn't matter. My in-laws and I are family. They need my help and support, so I give it. I need their love and support, and they give it. It's not about W. My obligations to my family extend to her parents, so I gladly honor them - they are truly wonderful people who I love very much.

[LostPhil]

Mike85,

I'm glad you still have a good relationship with you inlaws. Mine have said they don't want to get involved. They also shut me out of their lives. Then in another sentence they tell me that they will always love me and that I will always be their son in law. However when they do get involved in turns out for the worse. Wife calls me and tells me to leave her Father alone, and stop telling on her.

Anytime I would call them to vent. It would get turned around on me like I was doing something wrong. I finally told Dad again if you have a problem with me calling then you tell me. I said if you are going to act like nothing is wrong, then please just pick up the phone every once in ahwhile and ask me how I'm doing. Say you don't want to talk about the situation or what your daughter is doing, you just want to talk to SIL.

He still hasn't called.

I tried to explain to him that his daughter is MLC or something, but they don't want to listen.

Blood is thicker than water, but this is ridiculous. Since her Father even told me that his daughter can be a real b|tch. The day I asked him to marry her, he said. Don't let her come back, and if she gets out of hand, back hand her, because she can be a real b|tch.

Well thanks Dad... Because now she is going around telling everyone that I abused her. I never backhanded her either.

[Mike85]

My regained rapport with my in-laws required work. On all of our parts.

Prior to W dropping the bomb, she and her mom were very close. In fact W told MIL that she was going to drop the bomb just prior to doing so. At the time, I asked W what MIL's reaction was, and W said that her mom was sad for her and us. Period.

Prior to the bomb-drop, in-laws and I were very close. MIL and I used to stay up and talk for hours. We have the same warped sense of humor, both love Britcoms, exotic food, and her daughter. FIL and I also got along great. He is a Korean War combat vet, built flying model planes for a hobby, worked in an historic warplane museum after retirement, and is just a great guy. After the sudden, unexpected death of BIL from a rare genetic disease (caused him to throw clots after a minor surgery, leading to massive stroke and death at age 40, leaving a young widow and three young kids), FIL told me that he considered *me* to be his son now. I was honored and have always tried to live up to that.

Prior to the bomb, MIL went in for knee replacement surgery, and it was scheduled during my school's spring break so that FIL could move in with us and I could help take care of him (he has Parkinson's). His Parkinson's was worsening considerably around that time, a fact that neither W nor I knew. We ended up having to have him rushed via ambulance to the hospital, where they informed W and I about the worsened dementia and loss of body function. W spent weeks bouncing from FIL's hospital (dealing with neurologists, etc.), to MIL's recovery hospital room, to work, coming home only to sleep. My job was to hold the fort and take care of the kids. I barely saw her. When I did, she was exhausted and mentally devastated. Her dad was her hero.

I definitely believe that the situation with her dad was the straw that broke the camel's back, helping to trigger her MLC.

Anyhow, W kept a distance btw in-laws and me. I didn't contact them, not wanting to put them in the middle. W served as sole conduit of info to them, "coloring" the truth. As a result, MIL advised W to take hard line with me and consult L. When I happened to run into MIL a few weeks post-bomb, she told me that her daughter was having "classic" MLC (I laughed, b/c by this time I had figured that out). She said that she advised W to take hard line b/c MIL thought I was going to exercise my legal rights to snag full custody of kids. We had a long talk and I asked her what, in the last 20 years of her knowing me, would lead her to believe that I would behave that way. She apologized to me, we hugged. Things were still odd, though. Turns out that she knew about W's affair, knew that i didn't yet know about it, and was fearing an explosion from me when I did.

It was apparently a birthday card I sent to FIL for his 75th anniversary that finally broke the ice for good. I enclosed a brief letter explaining how much I love them, missed them, and still consider them family. I also told them that despite the awkwardness, the pain, the loneliness, the sense of betrayal, I still love their daughter and am working to restore my family. I also enclosed a couple "Pearls Before Swine" comic strips (told you that we shared the same sense of humor...).

Within a couple of days of getting the card, MIL and FIL visited me. There was hugging, tears, and a lot of mutually supportive talk. I saw how W's behavior has hurt them, embarrassed them, and drained them. W has pretty much severed the close ties with MIL, blown off their scheduled lunches, and only visits MIL & FIL with OM in tow.

I realized that although what I'm going through is horrible, I at least have a great C, know what books to read, and have this great place for help. They have nothing.

Scratch that.

They have me.

And will continue to do so.

It took a lot of work and trust on all our parts to get to where we are. I may have made the first efforts to open myself up and start the communication, but they took the leap and responded with love and trust. We need each other. Heck, I've even passed on some of the advice folks here have given - e.g., telling them to be careful in what they say/do despite W's behavior, as she will need a "safe" place when things with OM fall apart. MIL and I enjoy spending time hanging again, sometimes for commiserating, sometimes just to discuss books or TV shows, sometimes just to hang with my kids.

It took work, but it is worth it. For me, for them, and for my kids.

[LostPhil]

Bravo Mike!

Shakespeare always said the course of true love never did run smooth.

But from the sounds of it, the inlaw situation sounds really smooth.

[Ready2Change]

Great post!

My two cents:

Levine-"hold on to your NUTS" is a great read. It has some great insight.

W and I are separated. S9 wanted one-on-one time with W during my parenting time. No arguments from me. I encouraged it. It goes against your instincts, but you need to always ask "What is best for the kids".

W is going to get her space for the next year. I will DB away and let her "find herself".....

[sleeper]

Mike,

Re: "Fear is the mind killer"

I never really appreciated that until just post-bomb. I was so upset/afraid, etc. that I saw how fear was paralyzing me. It was never part of my post, but I recited the litany often.

This fear is gone now.

I do remain.

[Esky94]

Mike,

This is inspiring stuff. Your sitch is not my sitch, but it's still something that makes me sit up and think about what honour and integrity means in a man. I didn't have it and am trying to get it. It may save my marriage, it may not. But that's not the point. Either way...this thread is another lighthouse on my journey back to integrity.

Thank you.

Esky

[whereami]

Bump