CAKE-EATING

[butterflymom]

..... "So, remember, whether you do it effectively or ineffectively, when you ask your partner to do things differently, you are trying to change him........Furthermore, if you spend a lot of time trying to change him with ineffective methods, you will start resenting him because he's not bending and he doesn't exactly appreciate you either. In fact, he gets downright mad. So, if you are going to reform your partner in any way, big or small, why not use a method that's sure to minimize resistance and feelings of indignation and hostility?"

have to disagree with the overall view of this paragraph in that you can change someone else. By any method. Whether it be through DB or some method you choose yourself.

Many times we fall into a trap thinking we can change our partners by acting a certain way and I think that is very destructive to us. The only person that you can change is YOURSELF. You cannot change your spouse. Your spouse is the only person that can change themselves.

That being said we can act in certain ways that make them want to behave differently than they did before. It's harder to spew at someone that's being nice to you (some it do though, granted), but as for changing your spouse, like the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"

If you do all that you can and your spouse is still not coming around, don't blame yourself. You can't change him. He has to be willing to do the work on himself or reconciliation will never happen or work if attempted. It's definitely a two way street.

BFM

[Sophie]

I remember how I felt...why Cake-Walking was brought to my attention.

H would come around on weekends...enjoy family time, play, eat and be merry....

Then...he'd leave.

I felt used.

He'd come here, seeminly get a 'family fix'...then leave me with 3 kids all week.

I got very resentful of H interacting as if he were an uncle, brohter or some friend of the family.

He was, and has not, been involved in parenting, school, discipline,....raising the kids.

I understood that to be Cake-Walking after months went by.

Does that make sense?

[sgctxok]

Sophie.... A Cake-Walk is a game in which you can win a cake

But I know what you mean.



Definitely if something you're trying isn't working...you may need to stop immediately. OR you may need to give it some time. And...there maybe be things you can do to tweak the situation.

Also---if you do find you need to set a limit, the consequence doesn't have to be HUGE. Just effective and relative to him. IF he leaves his clothes on the floor for you wash....just leave them there.

[sgctxok]

..... "So, remember, whether you do it effectively or ineffectively, when you ask your partner to do things differently, you are trying to change him........Furthermore, if you spend a lot of time trying to change him with ineffective methods, you will start resenting him because he's not bending and he doesn't exactly appreciate you either. In fact, he gets downright mad. So, if you are going to reform your partner in any way, big or small, why not use a method that's sure to minimize resistance and feelings of indignation and hostility?"

have to disagree with the overall view of this paragraph in that you can change someone else. By any method. Whether it be through DB or some method you choose yourself.

Many times we fall into a trap thinking we can change our partners by acting a certain way and I think that is very destructive to us. The only person that you can change is YOURSELF. You cannot change your spouse. Your spouse is the only person that can change themselves.

That being said we can act in certain ways that make them want to behave differently than they did before. It's harder to spew at someone that's being nice to you (some it do though, granted), but as for changing your spouse, like the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"

If you do all that you can and your spouse is still not coming around, don't blame yourself. You can't change him. He has to be willing to do the work on himself or reconciliation will never happen or work if attempted. It's definitely a two way street.

BFM

You DO change people every day. The way you interact with them triggers how they will interact with you. Your habits become your character over time.

There are things about a person you cannot change, but there IS a lot you can do.


You might not be the problem....but you may definitely be the solution.

[butterflymom]

I still stand by what I say. Yes, you can trigger people to act differently, but you can't MAKE them act differently if they don't really want to.

I liken it to a toddler learning to potty train. The toddler has to WANT to use the potty and not their diapers or the "training" is never going to work. You can show them the potty, give them treats for using the potty and make it an attractive option for them, but if that child wants to use diapers then they are going to use diapers and you can't control that. They are in control of themselves and their own actions. not you, not anybody else.

The only person that you can control (or change) is yourself. You can make yourself an attractive option and your marriage a safe haven, but I think it damages self esteem if we think we can change our spouse by using these methods and then they still don't change. It makes us feel like failures. Like we didn't do ENOUGH. We may have done all we could, but unless the other person wants the same thing that we do then we will never be successful.

I'm one of the "success" stories on this board, but I still subscribed to the belief that I couldn't change my H, I could only change myself and that regardless of the outcome I would be OK. I think the focus should be more on how we can change ourselves to be better people (in my case, more Christ-like) rather than on how we can change our spouses. It's just a healthier approach to the situation.

BFM

[brandnewday]

You DO change people every day. The way you interact with them triggers how they will interact with you. Your habits become your character over time.

There are things about a person you cannot change, but there IS a lot you can do.


You might not be the problem....but you may definitely be the solution.

When I stopped reacting....so did he.

When I stopped talking and started listening he started talking.

When I stopped pursuing and distanced myself, he begen to pursue.

When I began to change the steps of the dance, he began to take the lead.

[Sophie]

When I stopped reacting....so did he.

When I stopped talking and started listening he started talking.

When I stopped pursuing and distanced myself, he begen to pursue.

When I began to change the steps of the dance, he began to take the lead. [/quote]

When you first stopped...or began to let go of the rope, as they say...did he react negatively?

My H seems to withdraw when I stop pushing/pulling/expecting.

He seems to be just as angry...no reponse to anything...just disappears.

For me..
This time...I don't feel as impatient or that I am working on myself to change him. That feels really...free:)

[butterflymom]

Back to the original intent of this thread – cake eating.

My H was probably one of the worst offenders by most people’s standards and I was the biggest doormat in the history of doormats. I never saw it that way. I actually lost good friends because they didn’t want me to be nice to my H. Actually had a huge argument with someone I thought was a good friend about how he didn’t think what H was doing was good for the kids and that he wanted me to be mean to him. Unbelievable. I asked him if he thought being mean was going to be beneficial to my kids. His answer – you can fake niceness when they are around, but you don’t have to be nice to him around other people.

So then I asked, don’t you think D10 is smart enough to tell the difference between genuine niceness and fake niceness? What would I gain by being mean to him? I agreed that what he was doing was not beneficial to the kids and that was why I had to do all I could do make up for it and I felt that treating him with kindness and respect as the father of our children was a big way of accomplishing this.

He still didn’t get it and that was the last time I talked to him until after H came home. He and his wife are slowly coming around to the idea that maybe I wasn’t so crazy after all.

H and I had sex pretty much the entire time that he was living with someone else. He maintains that it was the one bond that kept us from totally falling apart. That me allowing him into my life and the kids lives unfettered and without difficulty made it difficult for him to let me go completely. That me praying for him and OW (and telling him that I was doing so) was incredible to him and that the grace I showed to him while he was being an a$$ was unbelievable.

I prayed everyday that God show me the way. I prayed that God help me to love my H like He loves us, unconditionally. If we can love our spouses unconditionally after all the horrible things they have done to us then how much easier will that be to translate that love into others in our lives that aren’t so hard to love?

Did I do these things to manipulate H into coming home? No. Sure, I had hopes that he would and God kept telling me that divorce was not in my future, but I did them because it was the right thing to do. I did them knowing that even if he didn’t come back that I would be OK and a lot stronger and better person for having treated him in a loving way while he was being most unlovable. My H didn’t deserve unconditional love. He didn’t deserve me being nice to him. He knows (knew) that, and I knew it too, however, none of us deserve to go to heaven either, but Christ loved us enough to pay that debt for us and loved us unconditionally. He expects us to do the same.

I think cake eating is all about an attitude. If you feel used, if you feel abused then it’s cake eating. If you approach your situation as a person that wants to be more Christ-like and treat others as God would have treated them then it’s not cake eating, it’s unconditional love. I guess you have to decide where you stand on that continuum.

BFM

[Sophie]

sorry...didn't mean to divert

[butterflymom]

I think I was the first one to divert so it was only fair that I try to get it back on track