We're never getting back together-How do you cope?

[JenInVen]

Hi

I think you need to take the focus off your W and put it on you. You cannot make her feel special, loved, or appreciated if she doesn't want to feel those ways. I know you love her but you have to let go in some way.

Please try and get out and enjoy the day/night and think about your needs for now.

[onedge]

The entire conversation after she saw the drawing i did of her.
Not really sure how i went, i think it was as good as i could have hoped. but i'm not sure. (by the way, it's in a chat session thing, thats why there is timestamps)


8:59pm Me

well, I have been wanting to draw something for about 2 weeks now, i'd been watching Ben from work draw some stuff from photo's, and he was really good at it. I hadn't seen anything that i wanted to draw though. When i saw your profile picture, I knew that i wanted to draw it. I knew that it wasn't a good idea but i had not had that feeling in a long time
9:00pm W

dosn't mean u think i'm special thats just bull [censored] because of what my facebook page says

same with the define me crap

u don't really mean it
9:00pm Me

When i started with it, i was thinking that it would turn out [censored], and i wouldn't try it again, but it just worked, and it felt really good, and i kept drawing.
9:01pm W

and i am grateful you r trying to make me feel better but you just make it worse u don't really feel like that
9:03pm Me

I didn't draw it to try and make you believe that i think you are special, i was just enjoying drawing it, I do feel like that, but right now, i'm not concerned with how you think i fell, i want you to feel special about you, and if it has made you feel special then yay, but that wasn't the point. But aside from that i am really proud of what i have done so far.
9:04pm W

and u should be proud of what u have done but u didn't need to put on it a special person or u have found ur muse what a load of [censored]. I'm glad ur drawing again. No it didn't make me feel special because it was all crap
9:08pm Me

i know that you feel that i don't think you are special, and i can understand why, I have a lot of regrets for things that i should have done, but i can't change the past. I'm sorry for not drawing that a long time ago, and i can't explain why i didn't, and i'm not going to argue about how i feel, or how you feel.
9:11pm Me

and by the way, this wasn't an attempt to "win you back". I'm not stupid enough to think that one picture can change everything. I just hope that it might put a smile on your face sometime.

I will stop working on it, i'll find something else to draw.
9:13pm W

u can keep drawing it i don't care

but no it won't put a smile on my face

but again i don't care if u draw it
9:14pm Me

i'm sorry
9:14pm W

for what?
9:15pm Me

i didn't mean to make you feel worse
9:15pm W

it's fine don't worry about it

it's not u it's me i'm just sad

i'm getting better but i'm still sad

i am doing very well

but still sad
9:16pm Me

well if there is anything i can do (you wont ask :):) )
9:17pm W

nope but thnx
9:18pm Me

so how did you like it anyway?
9:18pm W

it was ok
9:18pm Me

just ok?
9:18pm W

i don't like pictures of myself so

mum loved it

she thought it was fantastic
9:19pm Me

well it's not finished yet,
9:19pm W

ok
9:19pm Me

anyways i'm here when you want to talk, you can go back to wow :P:P
9:20pm W

:P:P

i am not a wow whore

much.......................
9:21pm Me

yeah, right *wank* :P:P
9:21pm W

:O:O
9:21pm Me

:):) just teasting

teasing
9:22pm W

you need to learn how to spell or type

retard

:P:P

now i'm going to play wow :P:P

[native]

OE,

Is your wife on anti-depression medication ? I haven't heard you say anything about that yet. ( My wife (seperated) has clinical depression, and though it is not completely cured, the medication has helped immensely. Also, recent studies have shown that exercise is just as effective as medication for depression. However, she may be too depressed to actually exercise, so taking a pill may be the first step to getting control of it.)

In any case, I can feel your pain brother. But your wife can't carry the burden of your pain and sadness right now. If she's depressed she probobly has a decreased capacity to empathise with anyone else's needs/hurts.

I suggest you follow this simple rule of communication when talking with her:

'Small talk, happy talk'

Stay away from heavy stuff. Do what it takes to uplift your own mood. You can't guilt her back to you, but you can draw her back by creating new, happier you, that is not dependent upon her making you happy or sad.

She is emotionally unstable and looking for a calm harbor. Be strong for yourself, whether she notices or not.

You need to Get a Life or gal as they say here.

Also, do not try to draw her out to long on conversations because you want reassurances.

Remember, 'small talk, happy talk'. And end the conversation first. End it politely, but end it first. She needs to wonder about you for a while, and why you are so happy.

[onedge]

That is some good advice there, and I will really be trying hard to do that for the next couple of weeks to see how it goes.

My wife has been on medication for about 2-3 years, but they haven't really helped her much at all, she has had more good days than bad, but when she has bad days they are really bad now. She didn't really try (or i didn't see her try) anything to help with her depression untill after the separation which makes me feel insecure, as she will get happier and happier and I'm not sure if she will think it's because she is trying, or because I'm not there?

I am getting a life whenever I can, no excuses for not, everyone else on here finds the time to do it, why can't I?

I'll do my best to stick with the small talk and I'll try and be the one to end conversations.

Thanks for the advice NC

[native]

If your wife's medication has not been evaluated for effectiveness since it was first prescribed, she needs to have it reevaluated.

My wife had her's reevaluated ( at the insistence of her whole family when she announced she wanted a seperation ) and the doctor increased her dosage. She has had to try several different medications and sometimes combinations to get the proper benefits.

"She didn't really try (or i didn't see her try) anything to help with her depression until after the separation which makes me feel insecure, as she will get happier and happier and I'm not sure if she will think it's because she is trying, or because I'm not there?"


I think the best way to look at this is that when her depression lifts she will be able to make better decisions. If,in the meantime, she has seen real changes in you (happier,more secure), does not feel pressured to come back ("the door is always open, but its your choice"), her resolution to leave may begin to crumble.

I support my wife's exercise efforts ( she goes to the local pool for water aerobics) and always let her know how glad I am she is enjoying it and feels better. She has welcomed my support.

In fact, anything you can do to let her know you trust her decisions (though you may not always) removes you from the line of fire and puts the responsiblity square on her shoulder's for her choices. Which in my wife's case was the right thing to do, even when she went to a singles event to accompany a friend three weeks ago. I was in agony because I knew she was curious about whether she would meet someone interesting or not. After much agonizing I called her and told her I trusted her to make the best decisions.

The next day she wanted to talk with me about the event. She had met and been flirted up by the hansomest guy there and even gave him her phone #. (ouch!) She then said that even though she enjoyed the first 20 minutes of the event and the flirting, she quickly realized that the general caliber of the singles there was lacking: a lot of lonely, desperate people. She was going to tell the guy she wasn't interested when he called.

I think that this whole scenario turned out this way in part because I gave her no reason to feel defensive.

Listen, we are not in control over what our WAS's think or do, but our attitudes, words, etc. do have influence to either make them feel justified in leaving us, or have second thoughts.

Give her reasons, by your new attitude and actions, to have second thougts.

Btw, whenever I get together with her and her family or go out on dates (first real one two nights ago), I try to look my best ( shaven, nice shirt, etc). I also cleaned up the awful clutter our house was in ( since she left ) before I invited her over for a 'family' dinner with me and my daughter.

We had a good time. It was my birthday and she initiated a long, warm hug. I was tempted to tear up, but I held it in. I just enjoyed the moments we were together and actively listened to her, whatever she wanted to talk about.

Hang in there man. As far as an immediate resource for helping you, check out Nancy Wasson's "Save Your Marriage: What to do when your Spouse Says: "I don't love you anymore!". It is availible online (www.KeepYourMarriage.com) as a downloadable e-book you can read right now, the hardback copy comes in the mail later.

This is the time to be reflective on what you need to change in yourself to become a better partner. A great place to start is to recall all the issues that she may have nagged you about or expressed unhappiness about. What was she really saying when she accused, nagged, complained, bitched, etc ? She was saying I want our relationship to work. I need your help !

Gotta go now...keep in touch and God bless.

[onedge]

She has been re-evaluated recently, the doctor is not convinced that she needs a stronger medication. I think he wanted her to try other things as well before he changes the prescription, like exercise and lose weight and go to a dietitian and a psycologist.

The thing i'm most worried about now is that it is our sons birthday party on friday night, and there will be a lot of people there, including a guy that she thinks she is falling for (who is depressed as well due to his previous relationship). And aside from that she will flirt with every guy there, and I don't know how I will react, I need to prepare myself but don't know how, any Ideas

Thanks for the advice NC, do you have a thread anywhere?

[native]

No thread. Haven't posted my whole story yet. I've only chimed in when I thought I could contribute, but believe me, I've been reading other people's posts to glean as much wisdom as I can.

My w announced she wanted a seperation in mid April 08, and finally moved out in the first week of August.

As far as the party goes, how many of the guys are single ? I imagine most are married and have kids and though she may flirt with them, they won't take the bait.

If they are mature they will think that her behavior is out of line and they will ignore it.

As far as the depressed guy, well...even if something does come of that, how long do you think it will last ? Two depressed people don't make one happy one.

Really, I know it's hard to practice, but NOTHING good comes from worrying.

Ignore her immature behavior and have a great time. Focus on your son and be the best dad for your kid, the best host for your guests. Tell jokes,make people laugh...just go into this thing telling yourself it is all going to be ok.

And don't assume she will be flirting with everyone. Sounds like fear talking. In fact I would pretty much ignore her actions except to flash her a mysterious smile every now and then. Keep her guessing about you.

I know that is easy to say but what else can you do ? I think that's how I would try to go into this type of situation.

Your good behavior will only make her immature behavior that much more obvious to her and everyone else.

Let me ask you something. Do you think that your wife ever felt you valued anything else, relationship, work, kids, etc. over her ? I mean, she wants to feel special, to be treated like a princess and to be desired. The flirting is really to reassure herself that she is still desirable. That's my best guess anyway.

Right now she is in a really weird place. She isn't the woman you first met. The flirting makes her feel desirable. Let her go through her craziness. Just don't go there with her, don't be drawn into her drama, reacting to every thing she does. If you have to step outside to get a breath of fresh air, do that.

Keep yourself busy at the party. Don't give yourself a lot of time to dwell on her actions. Choose to focus on others and your kid.

In the meantime, get that e-book I told you about and start reading. Also, do the introspection about how you may have contributed to her unhappiness. Even if you didn't know any better then, apologise for it, preferrably in writing.

Don't try to get her to be responsible for her own behavior. Taking responsiblity for your own is enough.

And if your have faith, pray for her. She is lost and confused. In any case, if you pray for her, it will help you from becoming bitter and angry about how she is affecting everyone with her choices.

[onedge]

They are all about my age (22) and she is 27, none are married or have kids, they will accept it, and hell, they will join in

My W thinks that I loved my son more than her, I can understand why she felt that way, I couldn't show her how i loved her as easy as I could him. My wife argues and stuff and i never argue back, i didn't know how to deal with the arguements and stuff. so i tried to keep the peace all the time. I realize that i was hurting us, and i told her that today. She was contacted by her eldest daughters father today, and she spoke to him for a while. He was pretty much the reason that her depression and distrust and stuff is so bad, but she was ok talking to him, sort of.

I miss her a lot, I don't know if I can ever show her the way I really feel and have her believe me. I'm not hiding anything anymore, and it is different, and she knows that it is (but probably doesn't care). I'm not going to give up on her and on use, but right now i just need support ideas and hope.

She is worth every second, of this quiet despiration, and I know that I'm not the only one on here with that same feeling. Thanks for the help

[native]

'She is worth every second, of this quiet despiration, and I know that I'm not the only one on here with that same feeling.'

I feel the same way about my wife, who is 32. But she is so easily upset that I am getting real tired of the drama.

Haven't given up yet though. I'm excited about putting into practice all the techniques I am learning through DB'rs and seeing how she reacts when she sees how well I handle situations that come up.

Btw, why are all these 22 yo. single guys being invited to your son's birthday party ? What do they have to do with him ? Sounds odd.

I don't think her former husband or whatever is the reason for her depression. That's a victim mentality. I think the way she has learned to/chooses to process things is the reason for her depression. (but don't tell her that! She's not interested in truth right now). But I'm not a professional. Still, sounds like she does not take responsiblity for her own emotions. If that's so, you aren't going to get her to. You can set an example for her by not blaming her or others for your feelings however.

"right now i just need support ideas and hope."

I will offer you support in the efforts to reconcile your marriage and any ideas/hope I can. I am also learning as I go.

"I miss her a lot, I don't know if I can ever show her the way I really feel and have her believe me"

You will have many opportunities to show her that you have changed, if you want to. Since you have a son together you will never really be completely uninvolved with her.

But once you discover and make the changes you need, it will take time for her to belive they are for real.

"My W thinks that I loved my son more than her, I can understand why she felt that way, I couldn't show her how i loved her as easy as I could him."

My W just indicated that she was #2 after our daughter just yesterday. We have already had the discussion as to why I focused on d (similar reasons to your situation, but also that d's needs were not being met) but this time I just said that it wouldn't be that way in the future, and as far as I was concerned she was #1, if we were to reconcile.

And so now, I have to be careful not to seem to take sides with d even when my d's needs are legit, and w's choices are ignoring those needs. So tonight I dealt with a sticky situation differently.

Rather than argue with w and tell her how she was not meeting d's needs or being thoughtful of her feelings, I had d call and thank her for everything she had done for her today. Then d went ahead and expressed what she would like to do in the future in positive terms, rather than saying she was bored with the activities w had chosen to do, which had upset w earlier.

I had coached our 6 yo. d before the phone call and she did beautifully. She made her needs known in the form of a request rather than a complaint ( good db'ing ) and she showed gratitude for the efforts w did put towards their special day. I was amazed at how well d handled it, so she must have really been listening when I went over the whole situation before she called her mom.

I want my d to have sucessful relationships too, especially with her mother, so it's never too early to teach her the best ways to express her needs.

Btw, did you order the e-book by Nancy Wasson? You can get it immediately, and you need something to read right away.

OE, I think you need to really calm down. Believe that no matter what happens in the short run, God is in control and there is a greater purpose being worked out here.

Trust that and be at peace. Can I share a bible verse ? 'Cast all your cares on Him because he cares for you "

Don't let your fear or anxiety or need derail your ultimate goal, which is to save your marriage. Fear or anxiety based actions or words often have the opposite affect on others that we actually want.

Also, read other people's posts to glean insight into your own situation. Read and learn. Absorb it.

And hang in there. You will be alright...

[onedge]

"Btw, why are all these 22 yo. single guys being invited to your son's birthday party ? What do they have to do with him ? Sounds odd."
My wife never really had a lot of friends, and she is now friends with her brothers friends, they are all invited coz' thats just how it works with my W's family. It's odd but you get used to it. I'll deal.

"I don't think her former husband or whatever is the reason for her depression. That's a victim mentality. I think the way she has learned to/chooses to process things is the reason for her depression. (but don't tell her that! She's not interested in truth right now). But I'm not a professional. Still, sounds like she does not take responsiblity for her own emotions."
That is true, and i don't think she does take responsability for her emotions. But in her defence, she was picked on a lot growing up, and the father of her first child, when she was 16-17 left and said that the child wasn't his. The depression was already there, but if that didn't happen, it wouldn't have gotten as bad.

"Don't let your fear or anxiety or need derail your ultimate goal, which is to save your marriage. Fear or anxiety based actions or words often have the opposite affect on others that we actually want."
Question below about that

My W knows I am trying to save our marriage. She told me tonight that she isn't going to try, and that she doesn't want us anymore.
I can deal with that, I know where i stand now, it's not a good place but at least i know, and she knows that I am going to try and carry the burden of our failing marriage for as long as i can.
But what do i do from here? LRT seems to be not right for what is happening, but i'm not exactly good at knowing what to do. any suggestions on other things to try?

she said something else last night aswell. She said that we have gone back to how we were before we got together. She contacts me and i don't contact her. Up untill now she has seen herself as running after me (didn't say it but it think that is what it is like). Is it ok for me to contact her just to chat, or anything, just because I want to, it kinda seems like a logical 180 in a way, but it contradicts what it seems I should be doing? confused but does that work?

You seem to be going really well, and you seem to know what your talking about. I have the issue that I can learn a lot about relationships an issues in them, and ways to make it better. I can give advice, but i can't put it into practice myself without getting it completely wrong. How do you stay focused enough to be able to do it? I am focused on what I want and where I want to be, but when I'm around her, i get muddled up and I ramble, and it hurts the situation, I try not to but it's habit (i need to break that i know).