We're never getting back together-How do you cope?

[MsMelancoly]

Hi Onedge, I would just remember that you cannot control her or her happiness & she should not control you or your happines. Everyone needs to find happiness within themselves & that's what GALing is all about.

Since you don't have DR - I would look at the LRT from 8/5/08 by JamsJohn & the detaching thread from 8/22/08 by sgctxok. For me they were very informative & have been helping me to stay grounded.

If your W has a self esteem issue - there is nothing you or anyone else can do. We all have to accept ourselves or work to change what we don't like.

Try to stop worring about your W so much - it will consume you.

Cheers & keep posting

[native]

"My W knows I am trying to save our marriage. She told me tonight that she isn't going to try, and that she doesn't want us anymore."

This may or may not be true. My wife told me to move on, that we weren't going to reconcile as well about a month ago, now she says she doesn't know, even that I need to "take it slow" regarding wanting to show her affection.

All over this site you will get the same insight, that you can't believe everything they say. They don't even know themselves really.

" She knows that I am going to try and carry the burden of our failing marriage for as long as i can."

It's good to let her know what you would prefer to happen, but also make an effort to show her (tell her too) that if it doesn't happen you will be alright and are going to learn from this experience and become a better potential partner for somebody, though you hope she chooses to benefit from it. Make sure to follow through with your changes.

"She said that we have gone back to how we were before we got together. She contacts me and i don't contact her. Up until now she has seen herself as running after me (didn't say it but it think that is what it is like). Is it ok for me to contact her just to chat, or anything, just because I want to, it kinda seems like a logical 180 in a way, but it contradicts what it seems I should be doing? confused but does that work?"

I think the DR advice is to do what works, to stop doing what doesn't. Try it and see what her reaction is. Then decide what direction to go in.

I have tried to focus on rebuilding our friendship rather than addressing our 'relationship'. So I have just initiated time together that is short and friendly, no heavy stuff. Just sharing about what's going on in our lives, out to lunch, ice cream or a movie.

I also try to ask her advice on stuff since she believes that I don't value her opinion. I really try to stay away from stuff that might seem like an accusation or trying to convince her to work things out or anything like pressure. Just keepin' it light.

Whenever she calls unexpectedly, though I may get a pit in my stomach from all the crazy crap she has said in the last several months, I try to approach it like everything is great and I answer with an upbeat attitude. " Hey, how's it going, etc..."
She still is very sensitive and gets angry quickly, easily misunderstands things, but you just have to 'act as if' everything is great, or is going to be great. I think it catches her off guard, because she expects me to be angry, sad, unhappy or anything but ok.

I learned my lesson big time since the second time she announced she wanted a seperation ( she had kind of retracted her first announcement for a short while).

We had had an arguement two days before. It did not have to become an arguement, but because I let her know I was expecting the worst when she approached me with an issue, it actually became as bad as I feared.


"You seem to be going really well, and you seem to know what your talking about.....How do you stay focused enough to be able to do it? "

Thanks, but I've had about 5 months of trial and error to get into some new habits. I am less emotional now about the whole thing. I guess I have detached to some degree.

I have listened to Michele's tapes on DBing over a doz. times, just drilling it into my head. And I come here and read. I have benefited from Nancy Wasson's matl. and want to get the Marriage Fitness course by Mort Fertel. I also have a divorced friend I talk to on the phone during emergencies, ( he's the one who lent me the DBing matls.) and he has given me pertinent advice exactly when I needed it.

I'm now listening to Ellen Kreidman's course, the Fireworks Collection, which I've had for a long time, but never listened to. Good stuff.

You gotta get your head in the game, but don't forget to GAL.

And I won't kid ya, a number of nights early on I had a couple shots of vodka before bed to help me relax. I'm not an alki, but I think it helped.

"but when I'm around her, i get muddled up and I ramble, and it hurts the situation"

If you ramble, and it hurts the situation, could you try asking her a question and forcing yourself to actively listen to her reply ?

Keep asking questions (gradually) until you are listening 2x more than you are talking. Ask her about how her day went. Don't judge what you hear, don't try to fix it, just try to see things from her perspective. Be empathetic. If something dissapointing happened to her say 'I'm sorry to hear that..."

When you feel the urge to ramble, sign off. Tell her" thanks for sharing ", but you have to go do something,

It's getting late, gotta work tomorrow. Later.

[onedge]

MsMelancoly

I really do understand what you mean, but i'm just not sure what to do, i need to "re-invent the wheel" a bit on this

"Since you don't have DR - I would look at the LRT from 8/5/08 by JamsJohn & the detaching thread from 8/22/08 by sgctxok. For me they were very informative & have been helping me to stay grounded."

I have recieved DR, and i'm going through it, but it just seems that LRT isn't the solution to what is happening, as it is almost "a more of the same".

"If your W has a self esteem issue - there is nothing you or anyone else can do. We all have to accept ourselves or work to change what we don't like."
I know that there is an issue with her self esteem, and I know I can't change that, I am trying to change the things about me that I'm not happy with and that she wasn't happy with either, good co-incidence for the situation


"Try to stop worring about your W so much - it will consume you."
Yeah, I understand, and I know i'm trying to rush things, but I want her to be able to talk to me about the things that are wrong or that hurt her that aren't to do with our M. Right now she has some to talk to about that sort of stuff, and it's her emotional affair person (who doesn't want any more than a friend). She is trying to lose the feelings that she has for him which is good, but I want her to be able to talk to me about it aswell. which means that i need to be able to talk to her about things and not give her pressure, but I can't cut contact?

[onedge]

""My W knows I am trying to save our marriage. She told me tonight that she isn't going to try, and that she doesn't want us anymore."
This may or may not be true. My wife told me to move on, that we weren't going to reconcile as well about a month ago, now she says she doesn't know, even that I need to "take it slow" regarding wanting to show her affection."

Hearing things like that really picks me back up off the ground, when my wife said it, i kept cool and stayed as optimistic as i could and i left in a good mood instead of sad. But hearing that it can change from that extreme to something less, well bad, it's really good.

"" She knows that I am going to try and carry the burden of our failing marriage for as long as i can."

It's good to let her know what you would prefer to happen, but also make an effort to show her (tell her too) that if it doesn't happen you will be alright and are going to learn from this experience and become a better potential partner for somebody, though you hope she chooses to benefit from it. Make sure to follow through with your changes."

Thats the plan, I have told her that I want to work things out, and that I will be better for it, she keeps saying "thats great, it means you will be better for your next partner" she knows I want it to be her, but I think she still thinks i won't change, or that she wont love me again if I do anyway.

""She said that we have gone back to how we were before we got together. She contacts me and i don't contact her. Up until now she has seen herself as running after me (didn't say it but it think that is what it is like). Is it ok for me to contact her just to chat, or anything, just because I want to, it kinda seems like a logical 180 in a way, but it contradicts what it seems I should be doing? confused but does that work?"

I think the DR advice is to do what works, to stop doing what doesn't. Try it and see what her reaction is. Then decide what direction to go in."

Trial and error, I'll try and hopefully i can see enough of a reaction to know if it is working or not, I will let you know what happens so I can gain some perspective from outside.

"You gotta get your head in the game, but don't forget to GAL.

And I won't kid ya, a number of nights early on I had a couple shots of vodka before bed to help me relax. I'm not an alki, but I think it helped.

"but when I'm around her, i get muddled up and I ramble, and it hurts the situation"

If you ramble, and it hurts the situation, could you try asking her a question and forcing yourself to actively listen to her reply ?

Keep asking questions (gradually) until you are listening 2x more than you are talking. Ask her about how her day went. Don't judge what you hear, don't try to fix it, just try to see things from her perspective. Be empathetic. If something dissapointing happened to her say 'I'm sorry to hear that..."

When you feel the urge to ramble, sign off. Tell her" thanks for sharing ", but you have to go do something, "

This is the area where i need to start making working on intensely. I get urges to talk about us and i know i should hold it back and I'm going to really try from now on, more than i have been. Light conversation, lots of joking, and questions about how she is (without prying. I'm going to talk about my feelings about things with her only when we talk about it together, and only with her, not people we know, (well her and on here, gotta have someone other than her ).
I'm still not sure on the whole contacting her first, it's good and bad either way, and for today, i'm looking for opinions on it before I make a move, also, i'm just giving her at least a day for the things we spoke about last night.

Anyway, i've written a lot now, you really are helping me lots as I can relate to the things that are happening with you fairly well. Keep up the good work, and i hope that one day I can return the favours that i'm getting

[onedge]

2 nights to go untill my sons birthday. My brother in law (not the one that i was friends with) is going to be there and is pissed at me over the letter (hippocryte, he's done some HURTFULL things in his time, probably help W strengthen her lack of self esteem), i've been told not to go near him. I'm still not sure what to do.
I have the kids this weekend anyway, but i don't want anything to happen at the party, coz' he isn't the most calm guy, and if he drinks (hopefully I'll be gone by then, he wont control himself at all regardless of if I stay away from him or not.

Acting as if wont help with her family. they all have had there own problems. W's Father had an affair when she was little, W's mother never forgave him and keeps reminding every day. W's oldest brother killed himself over drugs. W's second oldest brother is an aggressive alcoholic, who can do no wrong in W's mothers eye's. Everyone is oppinionated and doesn't care what anyone else thinks, they are always right, each of them, and they will have conflict for weeks, or months on end over nothing.

Apparently my mother in law keeps trying to get W to reconsider leaving me (i don't classify us as separated anymore, maybe if W shows some interest), I don't know if she still is doing that, but it felt good. But it would be hurting my cause because she wont let up on it (don't need to be told this, she just wont) so in a way, i don't need to persue to push W away, her family will be doing that enough already.

There's a bit more history of what I have to overcome....... I know that it is all really complicated, he brother being at the party will make it 10 times worse, otherwise I would have been ok

2 nights to go, and I don't think I can pull out at this point, I need some strength now more than ever.

[onedge]

As i've said before in my posts, my W and I use facebook. I don't use it as much now, partly because it can be hard to speak to W and partly because I don't want to seem like i'm not GALing.
There is a status on there, and my W's status yesterday changed to confused. She told me it's not about me, and I left it at that, she also told me that it wouldn't become "bad confused" (make her upset and depressed). Today it has changed to "really confused". I think it is because of her Emotional Affair person giving her mixed signals, one of his friends told me he will never look at her like that, but if that is the case, he IS giving her mixed signals, he has dinner there every thursday (i can deal with that, it hurt but i'm over it) but he goes over there more and more. I think she is being confused by him.

My friends and his friends are not comfortable with their relationship at the moment and haven't been for a long time. One of them was going to talk to him about it a month ago but never did. I told him that it was up to him, and that yeah, it would be good, but don't do it because of me. He never did, and aparrently since we have been appart there relationship has changed (not to be a couple, but i think they don't have to care as much because i don't see it and get hurt). Should I tell my friend that knows him to say something, or should I just leave it?

[native]

'Should I tell my friend that knows him to say something, or should I just leave it? '

Personally, I would try to avoid all attempts at 'meddling'. It has the potential to get back to her and backfire on you.

Re: Son's Birthday

Do people drink at 5 yo.'s b'days as a rule, or just your BIL and her brother ? Again, sounds a bit odd.

If it were me, I would make a showing for the kid and get out asap. Sounds like a really messed up situation.


"I'm still not sure on the whole contacting her first, it's good and bad either way, and for today, i'm looking for opinions on it before I make a move,"

My thought is that if you make contact first, make it short and lighthearted. Or talk about kids. Just don't press her to talk about R. Also, I would be careful about contacting her too often. In my case I know it irritates my W if I bother her too much, especially if she is at work.

To tell you the truth, my W's behavior has really disappointed me. She isn't and never has made it easy for me to love her, at least not since we got married. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it. I want to have a happy family for my 6yo.D, but I don't know if W can ever really be a part of that. She seems hooked on drama. Sometimes I get really angry about it. Anyway, at this stage in our R, I am going to pull back a little bit. She seems a bit more irritable lately. I'm so tired of being the target for all her frustrations.

[onedge]

ncnative

"Personally, I would try to avoid all attempts at 'meddling'. It has the potential to get back to her and backfire on you. "

Thats what I figured, i just needed to hear it from someone else

"Do people drink at 5 yo.'s b'days as a rule, or just your BIL and her brother ? Again, sounds a bit odd. "
Not a rule as such, but it always happens, just seems to be a, well, once the kids go to bed, the party continues into the night.

"If it were me, I would make a showing for the kid and get out asap"
i would leave early, but I am taking the kids when I leave, so I have to be there untill after the cake and things, so i will be there for at least 2-3 hours.

"Sounds like a really messed up situation."
Tell me about it

"My thought is that if you make contact first, make it short and lighthearted. Or talk about kids. Just don't press her to talk about R. Also, I would be careful about contacting her too often. In my case I know it irritates my W if I bother her too much, especially if she is at work."

I will take that into consideration, the times when I contact her will change, coz' she doesn't work, but she goes to her mothers house all the time.

W is having trouble paying for things, I learned that I can not offer any financial support at all, she reacts very badly to that. If she asks for it, she thanks me, but I can't offer. She is going to move back in with her parents if they continue having trouble with money, thats a bad move for them all around I think but I can't argue, it wont go well.

"
To tell you the truth, my W's behavior has really disappointed me. She isn't and never has made it easy for me to love her, at least not since we got married. Sometimes I wonder if it's worth it. I want to have a happy family for my 6yo.D, but I don't know if W can ever really be a part of that. She seems hooked on drama. Sometimes I get really angry about it. Anyway, at this stage in our R, I am going to pull back a little bit. She seems a bit more irritable lately. I'm so tired of being the target for all her frustrations. "

We have a lot in common in our relationships, pretty sure the only difference is the ages. My W takes a lot of things out on me, and she used to admit it as well, because I would take it and not get upset, but it became a problem when it became habit for her and she stopped admiting that she was "taking it out on me"

There has been a lot of times when i don't know why I still want what I want, and think that I will be better without her. But she is everything to me and she doesn't even know it.

It does get hard, but you need to pull yourself up aswell, and it doesn't matter the move you make, it will be hard either way. The hardest thing about this all is the fact that it feel like fighting a losing battle, but you just have to remember what you are fighting for. Everyday is another battle, some are longer and harder than others, some go by without a change, some present us with a glance at what we want after everything. Take the good with the bad and see where it gets us.
(motivating myself and you )

[onedge]

Nervous nervous nervous. I can't say no, it's my sons birthday. I have to be there for a while in a very uncomfortable environment. I don't think any DBing will be going on, and if I do, it probably wont work. I'll be happy to walk out of there without feeling a need to cry.

[native]

"It does get hard, .....Take the good with the bad and see where it gets us."

You're right. It does get really hard sometimes. I was pretty upset last night because W got snappy when I had D call before bedtime to say goodnight. W sounded irritated that we had called. (I'm trying to preserve some form of relationship for W and D, since W has been stepping away from the mother role since D was 2. It breaks my heart.)

W also complained about D after they spent Labor Day together so I could go dove hunting (a brief moment away from the world of women). D got bored of doing passive things (watched 3 movies, but this child needs physical activity each day) with her Mom and complained about it at the end of the day. W was pretty pissed off that D did not appreciate all she had planned ( they were to do a girly day, paint their nails, etc). While W was complaining about all of this, poor D is lying face down on couch with fingers in her ears because she can't bear to hear her M talk to me angrily about her.

When I tried to suggest they might have done something physically active at some point, W made excuses about money,etc,finally admitting she did not feel like it (she has low energy level, a big cause of our marital friction). Accused my and my M of spoiling D by taking her to the zoo and other activites . Said she never got to do those things, but had to make do with quietly coloring. ( I'm sure that's true, since her M was a poor divorcee for severl years, so they had little $$$ )She got really pissed at me and left.

I was tempted to fire off an angry e-mail late that night asking her if she wouldn't rather sign over full custody, as she is clearly not up for the job of caring for the child's emotional/physical needs. Fortunatly I saved it as a draft and never sent it.

After talking with a buddy of mine at work to just clear my head (I was still rather ticked off at her behavior), a moment of grace and rationality set in. I had been listening to Ellen Kreidman's program and she talked about the no.1 reason for divorce: low self esteem in marriage.

The thing is, women need positive feedback in the form of compliments in order to feel good about themselves ( I don't understand why, it just is).

So I texted W and complimented her on 'how is the smartest, hardest working woman at UNC-G doing today ?" ( Its true she is smart and works really hard, not empty flattery, but she rarely hears it from anybody)

She was amused and we chatted a bit. Later on she called me to make sure I picked up D since we didn't talk about whose turn, but really, I'm sure she knew I was doing it. I've been taking care of D for the past 2 weeks since the beginning of the semester is always an intense time for W.

Anyway, I invited her over for oven-baked chocolate chip cookies when she finished work, and she accepted.

But it gets better. She actually got the milk and the cookies and brought them to D and I from the kitchen ( She has almost never served us during our 7 yrs of marriage. I started cooking early on, and did nearly everything else once she started back to work, not because I wanted the responsibility, but because she chose to reject it.)

She even engaged D in teaching her Knock Knock jokes and we found some online and W was actually laughing and obviously enjoying herself in a family setting. That hasn't happened in over a year. My goal right now is to sincerely compliment her at least 3x a week, gradually up to 1x a day.

You can see how by not reacting with anger at her continued avoidance of her role as mother, but instead inviting her to take part in something she would like changed the outcome.

Had I sent that e-mail, I might as well have signed divorce papers.

But I was teetering on the verge of it because I was just so tired of her negative attitude towards life, me and our D.

And I had been actively flirted with by the hottest woman I have ever seen in our town the day before. I mean Southern Californian-long silky hair-supermodel late 20's hot. I needed that.

It made me realize just how vulnerable I was. It wouldn't take much for me to look into that.

But I want the best for D, and if it can be, it will be with her family of origin happy and intact.

L8r