One thing to be very aware of as you are DB'ing is the power of the "self-fulfilling prophecy". It's easy to be so certain that things are going to follow a pre-determined path, that we actually help things along the way.
We may "know" that things are eventually going to turn out bad, so we ignore the good signs, and are constantly on the alert waiting for the other shoe to drop. We focus on the negatives.
On the other hand, we could start expecting good things to happen, and may not be quite so aware of any little setbacks that may occur. We can focus on the positives, and see things going along a better path.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
The Realtionship IQ Quiz: #1- 1. Conflict and anger are signs that your relationship is failing. Tough question...I'd say conflict and anger are normal and are NOT necessarily signs that the relationship is failing. However, the resolution dance that my H and I have participated in for 25 yrs. goes like this: Initially, I become silent and withdrawn...H becomes "invisible." We would go without speaking (unless absolutely necessary) for a day or two and then one of us would "break the ice" by initiating a conversation totally unrelated to the original point of contension between us. My H has never been one to discuss or delve into the "reasons" of why he's unhappy about something or disatisfied etc. I was always the one to probe and take the temperature of our relationship. I tried to draw him out, get him to speak freely about his feelings but he kept them closed up and locked away from me. Over the years I guess I surrendered. I threw up the white marital flag and said to myself, "That's it, I quit, one of us can't make this work by ourselves." So I stopped asking questions, stopped worrying about how he felt etc. THEN, he used that very "silence" that he'd instigated from me as a huge part of his "justification" to cheat. Go figure.
The Realtionship IQ Quiz: #2 - "You're more likely to divorce if there are differences in your backgrounds, your likes and dislikes, and interests".
I think PART of this is true. I know that I have come to realize that my H's and I NOT sharing in the interest and activities of one another helped drive a wedge between us. We are in many ways very different. I like the opera and theatre, he likes Harley's and fishing. While I would participate in some of the things he liked, he would adamantly refuse to participate in the things I enjoyed. My H acts as if doing anything that he would associate with a "Yuppy" lifestyle would somehow make him less manly or something. The ridiculous part is, my H makes an excellent living. Until we sold our (his boat) last summer, we were cruising around in a boat that sells in the six figures. We live in a high end home on the river and he goes around in Harley t-shirts hoping someone will assume he's still just a guy from shanty town or something. When he had his A's, he even picked uneducated, "redneck" women that he hid from public view...I just don't get it. I to come from relatively humble beginnings and have worked hard to reach a certain level of financial comfort for my H and I and more importantly our sons. I am neither ashamed of what we've built for our family over the years NOR do I interpret who I am through ANY of those material gains. I am still the girl he married, all the same values, expectations etc...apparently over time, those characteristics have become something he distained. In this final attempt on my part to bridge the gap that has grown between us, I began to actively join in some of the things he likes. Over the past two months I've spent the day fishing off a pier with him, I've gone on several Harley rides for the day etc., and I truly enjoyed each outting. He came up with several "date" ideas that included a Harley ride but the trips were to crab and craft festivals or to a destination to enjoy a nice lunch etc.. So he obviously also sees the need to somehow blend the things that he enjoys doing with things that I would enjoy doing....and it's been a great experience for both of us when we have.
"In healthy relationships, major disagreements get resolved over time."
I have to ponder this one.
For my Monkey and I, a major disagreement that we had was him spending enough time with me.
I think that's been resolved through our separation because I've changed my definition of what is 'enough'.
Also, I'd feel a martyr and a victim because I was working on our relationship and he wasn't. I addressed this recently on my thread and realized that he is contributing, in his own way at his own pace.
I'd say that separation has been good for me because it's given me the chance to gain some perspective on our relationship and our issues.
The Realtionship IQ Quiz: #3 - "In healthy relationships, major disagreements get resolved over time."
I think that my H's and my biggest "disagreement" hasn't yet been resolved. My H is a member of AA and has been for 20 yrs. He has adamantly kept that part of his life solely unto himself. He resents the fact that if I chose to, I could enjoy a cocktail. He dislikes people that drink. Out of respect for my husband's sobriety, I can tell you that if I've had 1 alcoholic beverage for every year he's been sober...it's been a lot. "His" friends are almost exclusively AA people. I am NOT invited to know them, participate in any social connection to them etc. The 2 women he eventually had his A's with were members of AA. So with all that said, in my eyes, our greatest disagreement is that I resent and refuse to accept that he is allowed a "private/secret" AA life and I get what's left. Since the poop hit the fan he has cut back on his AA participation. He still goes to ONE regular weekly meeting but he's stopped going to the four or five he went to when he was setting himself up to cheat. I will never again accept being "ban" from any portion of his life, especially now that he's used the one area of his life that I allowed him far to much 'space' (AA) to betray me. I am no longer able to accept "I don't know" for an answer because I've come to learn (the hard way) that "I don't know" is a way to avoid the truth. As we are now both "trying" to work through our issues I am being patient with respect to not expecting all the negatives to change overnight..since they developed over many, many years. And I know that until my H is willing to tell me what he needs or what he thinks he's been missing in our R...that I won't be able to meet those needs. I can't see in the dark any better than anyone else. I'm always 'open' to self analysis and change...if my H will tell me what he feels I need to 'look at' from his perspective. My H's mantra has always been and in many respects continues to be: "People can't change, they are who they are."
How SURE are you about things that are going to happen? we can never be SURE of anything...or rather as they say the only things certain in life are death and taxes
How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?
oh far to much, I sit and wonder or rather try to gage with some fictional meter, mmmm was h doing this or that then? sets me up for real trouble and gets me making a whole lot of assumptions that are typically negative
How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view? What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently? this is a tough one. sometimes I think that if I were listening to a friend tell the same story I am living I would see more positive than I do on my own, but (yes I know LL's infamous but) there are also times when I would look at my sit and say either suck it up or get out.
If you were to read your story on the board like it was someone else's thread, what would you post to yourself? What advice would you give to you? How well would you take that advice?! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well I would tell myself to look how far we've come, focus on the positives, recognize what has worked in the past and stick to it, stay responsible for your own happiness, stop blaming yourself for h's indiscretions, and a whole lot more. would I take that advice? depends on how big the 2x4 was
last night I went to the c alone...I hadn't gotten a sitter and felt I could use the time alone with c to let out some fears that only seem to frustrate h so alone I went. As I sat there semi-complaining about things I did take a step back and ask out loud if the things that have happend didn't happen (affair and seperation threat of d etc) would I be happy with the way the r is going now and I couldn't answer or maybe was just afraid to answer what if the answer would still be no? is it even possible to put out the past that completely?
so then my question I suppose is how to piece after the initial piecing? when the "pressure" seems to be off the was to "win" you back again is gone and things seem to drift back toward that dangerous comfort zone?
what to do with a partner who isn't "active" in the piecing proccess.
How to heal on your own (without need for reassurance from returned was)
"In healthy relationships, major disagreements get resolved over time."
How do you feel about this statement?
I feel that the statement is partly true, but not necessarily always true. I think that respect for each other is very important. If my H and I were arguing about something that was very important to me, I would look for ways to be true to myself, but accomodate his feelings as well.
I think it depends on the issue to be resolved. Things that are very desctructive to the relationship or really victimize one or the other are not really acceptable. For example, if it turns out that my H didn't just have an A, but is actually incapable of monogamy, I would find that unacceptable and end the R.
This issue about needing to resolve conflict between us came up in our last MC session. My H was describing our different driving styles as a problem. He thinks I drive too slow, I think he drives too fast & tailgates. He gets mad when I get nervous when he's driving too fast, and so on. He insinuated that this was evidence of us not being compatible. SIGH.
I told him that my parents have been having the EXACT same conflict for over 30 years, and it had never occurred to them that they were "incompatible" or should get a D over it! Their driving fights are legendary in my family, but I guess my H never witnessed one himself.
What things have you and your partner been arguing about that never seemed to get resolved? Too much conflict avoiding in our R to have many actual arguements. H feels that he isn't treated like he counts because I make decisions (especially about the house and the kids without talking to him about it first. I admit that I do alot of that, but my H works nights. I often don't see him, literally for days at a time except sometimes as he's rushing out the door to work just as I'm coming home. He also works every other weekend. He doesn't have the kind of job that I can call him about every routine decision that has to be made. I would like more participation from H as a partner, but most of the time, he's just not available and stresses out about problems with the kids so I just handle things. I feel like a single mom in many ways. H wants to be a partner in decision making, but doesn't want to change his job or his schedule and I can't switch to a night schedule and neither can the kids so we're always out of sync. This is an example of something that we both agree is a problem, and both basically want the same thing, but go round and round and round about.
Besides that, one of our other major arguement is interior decorating because we have somewhat different taste.
Issues over raising kids, money, etc.
Have there been any ways in which your heated arguments have changed over time? Have they mellowed in any way? We do NOT have many heated arguements. I think we are both afraid that a big arguement will cause a nuclear meltdown of our R or that one of us will loose our temper & beat the c**p out of the other. If it can't get handled calmly, we just don't go there.
Have any of your disagreements seemed to have maybe become less important than they were before?
Sure, sometimes I just have to say "that's just how my partner is" even if it bugs me or I don't understand it.
Have you been able to just "agree to disagree" about any subjects?
Yes, but mostly about things like political or spiritual beliefs and not about major issues in our R.
If so, how were you able to get to this point?
What works best for you in "choosing your battles"?
Hmmmmm...taking time to think about what I'm battling over. If the issue isn't to private, I talk to friends that may have dealt with something similar and see what their perspective is.
I rarely dig my heels in and start a fuss--but I'm really good at doing a slow burn and holding a grudge. So is H.
How do you sort out what's important to resolve, from what's not-so-important to resolve?
By being clear about my values and what is important enough to me to take a stand over.
"You're more likely to divorce if there are differences in your backgrounds, your likes and dislikes, and interests".
Thoughts on this illusion?
In the beginning it was our differences that drew us together. I believe that he still reflects on our differences positively, however, it is his EA that skews that view right now.
What are some of the differences between the two of you that you thought were "cute" when you first got together, but you now think are rather "annoying"?! What do you think that their answer to this question might be? In the beginning it was cute that he was a dedicated softball player and we traveled to alot of tournaments together, now it is annoying with our 3 kids I can't usually go and his EA intrest is on all 3 of his teams and travels with him instead.
In what ways are you different from your partner? What things might you be able to add to their lives? He has given me alot of grief for 'acting like his mother'. I am the responsible one, I don't drink and drive and caution him against it, I party conservatively because I am aware of the impression this will give our pre-teen daughters, I don't go out to bars often (he goes to the sports bar 5+ days a week with 'the guys'), etc. If he would take on some of the responsibilities I could relax a little and re-discover what FUN is, I have honestly not had FUN in years. Enjoyment - yes, FUN - no.
In what ways is your partner different from you? What things might they be able to add to YOUR life? He is the type of person that everyone likes. He is a genuinely nice person and the fact that he no longer loves me and doesn't care to ever love me again is rare for him. If I could learn to be as at ease with others as he is, my life might be happier in the long run.
What are your strengths and your weaknesses?
My strength is that I am a strong individual and very capable of taking control when necessary.
What are their strengths and weaknesses? My weakness is that I tend to try to take control too often, but deep down, I am dying to have someone else take over and be the boss
How might the two of you be able to combine your strengths, and come together to make a great relationship, to be a great "team"?
We had formed a funcitonal relationship over the years, I thought. Our children are very well behaved and respectful, our personal affairs are in order and until his MLC and EA, we had a wonderful relationship in important matters. It is the personal matters that I seemed to have put on the back burner for 10 years too many. Is that rule of thumb in the book accurate? Estimate 1 month recovery for every year you were married? That gives me 10 months and I am in the Military and due to go over seas for a few months in OCT.
What actions could you take if you were to look back at what you were doing in the past, and learn how to appreciate those differences again? How would they know if you were thinking that your differences could help to draw you closer together, instead of driving you apart? If I knew then what I know now, I would have paid more attention to things he mentioned and the importance he put on certain actions. I might have tried to get more involved with him and those things he is interested in. he in return would have likely returned the favor. if only I had ....
Quote: "In healthy relationships, major disagreements get resolved over time."
The main issue (besides conflict avoidance and possible MLC...) that casued our separation and led us on the road to a possible D is the question of starting a family.
I was not ready and my H could not seem to understand/accept that. I was also stubborn about it and avoided talking about it (this would be a conflict...), which didn't help.
No matter what happens in R talks now that we are apart, this issue continues to come up. I am working through this issue with my C but H can't see that. How can you consider a family when your M is on the rocks?
I am so tired of this never ending argument and the way that it always turns out the SAME WAY!! How do I stop it?
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
Quote: If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?
well i would not want to delete all the past... just the events of last year up til now & maybe even 2001...
I'd like to go back to when we lived in a big 2 family house in a nice quiet town that was easy on & off to the highway...
We did have our problems then but we seemed to be able to work them out better...
Hubby wasn't making nearly as much money as he is now but we weren't so deeply in debt then either, just poor money management on his part trying to be a big spender one christmas got us evicted from a beautiful apartment that was bigger then some houses...
We use to play video, card & board games together as a family & with others, we went out on some paydays both in our town & in the capital & on occasion to the night club so I could go dancing
The goal wasn't to get drunk back in those days, but hubby who has a low tolerance for any kind of alcohol wouldn't think twice about having me drive & only on a rare occasion would I tell him that I was having a bad day & this was my nite to drink so he's quit after 2 beers... period & those were early so that he'd be sober enuf to drive us home afterwards
I would like for us to get back to that type of home & town again & lifestyle again, ideally it being our own 2 family...
I would like to see us doing things together as a couple with other couples & decent poeple who aren't just looking for a good time mooching...
I'd like to see more huggies & just more fun in our lives not revolving around drinking like it use to be
I'd like to see us going on the mystery cruise that we always talked of doing with a group of people
& taking the cruise to one of the islands that we spoke of doing with the other set of grandparents
or going camping like I've been wanting to do, but he's not done with me but did do with the drunk bunch
I'd like to see him doing the computer repair that he was suppose to be learning so that he's have an income to fall back on if things didn't work out with the Comcast AT&T merger/buyout since it is possible that the AT&T employess will be the ones downsized due to his units not going union last year when they had the chance...
I'm not sure if this is what you are looking for but that's what I envision for the ideal future...
I'd like to be able to more honestly & openly speak about our needs both emotional & physically...
I'm tired of feeling that I've got to always censor myself because I know that he's uncomfortable about talking about personal things like sex, so I've never pressed for details but it in fact has stifled our relationship...
This marriage is over... I don't even want it anymore...
I want a NEW MARRIAGE with my same Sweet Kinda Cute Guy... I know that he's in there somewhere in the alien bodysnatcher...
I just want to know when do I get a chance to re-meet my hubby & really start over
he's not done with me but did do with the drunk bunch 
I just want to know when do I get a chance to re-meet my hubby & really start over