Thanks, Pat. You are right. I will read the book(s) you posted, and I'll check out your thread.
I had an interesting discussion with a pastor recently, who was explaining to me how there were reasons given where D was permitted, yet that God still hated divorce, and marriages could still be healed even though . . .
Hopeful~~ Thanks for getting back to me on your conflict avoider--lucky us! that is so interesting about his relationship with his mother. My H also has a strange R with his mom. She is very emotionally unavailable and I think he is trying so hard for acceptance from her and from his dad. He is the middel child. For a while, my love was enough, but all of a sudden it's not enough anymore. Possible MLC???
The family problems, coupled with the conflict avoiding and the rest of our problems are making a big mess!!
I too, have tried to give him his space. He is the one that wants to now have R talks and then cancels them--go figure!!!!!
Hang in there and keep in touch!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
1. Conflict and anger are signs that your relationship is failing.
True, or false? How do you think your partner would answer?
For me, the answer is yes. Conflict is a bad sign. For my Monkey, conflict is just a chance to show off his wonderful debating skills.
I think the true answer is that conflict is a chance to understand each other better, if handled correctly.
Quoting JJ: How have you and your partner dealt with conflict and anger in the past? What is the "typical" thing for both of you to do?
Typically, we'd take turns not listening to each other, but forming our arguements while pretending to listen to the other speak. This typically became a shouting match in which I'd storm off to my room crying, with my Monkey following me. We'd yell some more, I'd cry and hide from him, in my journal or a book, he'd hide from me in his computer games. At one point, one or the other of us would approach the other and apologize.
Quoting JJ:What do both of you do to either avoid conflict, or to instigate it? When are the times that you've been able to deal with anger and conflict successfully? When has it worked for them, and when has it worked for you? What were you both doing at the time?
We both tend to hide from the other in doing various activities to avoid conflict. With us being separated, it's even easier to avoid conflict. We just don't call each other.
One thing I've done in the past and that he just recently did was to email the other person about the conflict. That allows the person writing the email to find a way to phrase the issue...and it allows the person reading the email to truly hear what the issue is. Feelings still get hurt, but there's no yelling involved.
"You're more likely to divorce if there are differences in your backgrounds, your likes and dislikes, and interests".
Thoughts on this illusion?
I've thought on this one a lot.
My husband tends to enjoy breaking the rules. I'll give you an example. When he was in his freshman year in college, he took his VCR and went running around at night. He knew anyone who saw him would think he'd stolen the VCR. A policeman found him, told him to go home, that if he saw him again, he'd arrest my husband.
I on the other hand, like to play it by the rules...I feel safer that way.
He hates rules that restrict him. I think rules makes us all safer.
So, a huge part of my journey on this path has been questioning whether or not I'd be better off letting him go and looking for someone more mature. I still don't have an answer.
What are some of the differences between the two of you that you thought were "cute" when you first got together, but you now think are rather "annoying"?! What do you think that their answer to this question might be?
The above example illustrates this, I think. Also, I want a family, white picket fence, 2 children, etc. He wants adventure and excitement and no responsibilites. He's 29 years old...and right now, he has no major responsibilites.
In what ways are you different from your partner? What things might you be able to add to their lives?
I think I add a sense of stability. I'd like to think that I add an element of fun thrown in with hard work. I'd like to think that he's impressed by my ambition and hard work.
In what ways is your partner different from you? What things might they be able to add to YOUR life?
He definately makes me lighten up and opens up a new world for me. I love playing computer games with him and have seriously missed that element of our relationship.
What are your strengths and your weaknesses?
What are their strengths and weaknesses?
I think I'm the turtle, slow and steady, and he's the hare, running around, getting into all sorts of messes. I think we balance each other out...but I'm not so sure that he agrees with me on this.
How might the two of you be able to combine your strengths, and come together to make a great relationship, to be a great "team"?
What actions could you take if you were to look back at what you were doing in the past, and learn how to appreciate those differences again? How would they know if you were thinking that your differences could help to draw you closer together, instead of driving you apart?
I think if I were to ask him for help in the areas that he's stronger in he'd know I appreciate our differences. I have also begun to do those things (on my own) that I used to enjoy doing exclusively with him.
"You're more likely to divorce if there are differences in your backgrounds, your likes and dislikes, and interests". Thoughts on this illusion?
I think it’s very untrue. I had an ancestor who ordered up a mail order bride from his “old country” by nothing but a picture and brief description. When she got here, it turned out that she was from Sicely, not from his country. Spoke different languages, had distinctly different cultures and religions, but married first, fell in love after, had many children and what is described as a long and happy marraige. I can think of many other examples similar.
I think it is important to have a few areas of mutual interest that can be enjoyed together, but many differences can be accommodated as long as neither partner is being terribly infringed upon.
What are some of the differences between the two of you that you thought were "cute" when you first got together, but you now think are rather "annoying"?! What do you think that their answer to this question might be?
One of the things that first drew me to my partner was that he was dependable and stable. Later on, I got irritated sometimes that he got very routine about things and rather inflexible. At first, I was impressed with the amount of self-insight he had. Later on, I got annoyed that he seemed to be very self-absorbed and self-centered. At first I liked that he thought things out instead of acting first, later I got very annoyed that he procrastinates.
I think that part of what my partner was attracted to is that he liked that I was strong and could be very independent. Later, he got irritated that I didn’t consult with him about everything and would just do things to get them done if he procrastinated too long. I think that he liked that I worked in the legal field, but later grew to resent that I was trained to think in terms of law and the way it relates to placing limits on behavior. At first he liked that I didn’t let things get to me very easily, but later he thought I should be as stressed as he was if the house got messy or the kids acted up, etc.
I guess it’s that you can really like certain characteristics each other has, but each characteristic has a flip side to it as well.
In what ways are you different from your partner? What things might you be able to add to their lives? I think I am more positive, family-oriented, end-result oriented, creative, emotionally expressive and more realistic than my partner. I think I am less even-keel emotionally, less dependable, less considerate, more forgetful, more jealous and possessive and (somewhat) more controlling than my partner.
I think that he looks to me to help him be less cynical and more emotionally expressive than he normally is. I think my “get-things done” characteristic offsets his tendency to procrastinate, and my creativity and emotional expressiveness offsets his linear way of thinking and tendency to get too set in routines. He tends to be more of a loner than family oriented, and being with me has helped him be more connected to others.
In what ways is your partner different from you? What things might they be able to add to YOUR life? He is more stable in many ways, knows how to “play”, more likely to think things out before acting, more romantic, more idealistic. He’s less secure and has lower self-esteem, is more likely to avoid problems and conflict, lets things irritate him and hurt his feelings very easily, and is more restless than I am.
He tempers my rashness, challenges me to be more romantic and more considerate, pushes me to go out to play more (not always be so serious) and try new things, go new places. He challenges me a great deal in thinking out how to compromise and negotiate when we both get stubborn. I have to really think about the things I am grateful and express them when H gets too negative.
What are your strengths and your weaknesses? What are their strengths and weaknesses?
I think I covered all that above!
How might the two of you be able to combine your strengths, and come together to make a great relationship, to be a great "team"?
I think I covered most of that too. All I can add is that we are more alike than different, and in most of the ways that we are different, we temper and compliment each other.
What actions could you take if you were to look back at what you were doing in the past, and learn how to appreciate those differences again? How would they know if you were thinking that your differences could help to draw you closer together, instead of driving you apart?
I think I would express a lot more acceptance and appreciation. I would let him know that I sometimes wish he wouldn’t take things to extremes, maybe wish he would do a little bit of this or a little less of that, but that I don’t want to change him. I would probably tease him more and complain less about his idiosyncracies.
I would probably remember and respect some of his differences more and have been more considerate and sensitive to his feelings.
I would probably point out all of the ways that our differences compliment each other so he can see another perspective than that our differences make us “incompatible”.
Quoting PhoenixNTraining: One thing I've done in the past and that he just recently did was to email the other person about the conflict. That allows the person writing the email to find a way to phrase the issue...and it allows the person reading the email to truly hear what the issue is. Feelings still get hurt, but there's no yelling involved.
This is great, PnT!
"Changing the Medium" is very often a wonderful way to "do something different", without having to change the "what".
Changing the where, and the when, often works wonders, too!
We'll dig much deeper into this in later steps!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
How SURE are you about things that are going to happen?
I seem to have a "gut feeling" that is very strong that things are going to happen, this is not how it actually works out in real life however I have been able to convince myself of a lot of things through using the "gut feeling".
How much do you rely on the past, and the present, to predict the future? Especially about the "negative" things?
A lot, to be honest, I seem to still be judging reactions and actions on the past, my expectations of people are built on the past....
How would you see the situation you're in from an outsider's point of view? What if you were a third-party looking at the events that are going on in your life? How might you see things differently?
It would be great because I would be in someone else's shoes so that I wouldnt be going through this crap! Seriously I would advise to maybe hang in there a little longer, it may well change for the better.
If there was no past history to taint your views of the possibilities of things that could happen in the future, what might things look like?
Very different, I have been in the sitch with my W before and I am basing a lot on what has happened before.
If you were to put aside the "fact" that everything your partner is doing is meant to hurt you, what other possible explanations for some of their individual behaviors might you be able to come up with?
She is depressed, confused, overworked, running , hiding from reality & commitment - a common trait in her life?
Will answer the rest soon.... I really need to think a bit more deeply about this.
Wow, what a great, honest look at your differences! Neither one right, neither one wrong, just "different", right?!
As I was reading through your post, I was thinking that you've got a lot of great material here to work with when you're looking at 180's! Wouldn't it really blow him away if YOU were to display a trait or two of his that you described?! Even for just a time or two!
It would be interesting to see what kind of change THAT would bring about!!
Which leads me to say.....
As you're working through Step 1 here, take note of some of the new and interesting ideas you're discovering about your relationship, to help you work through the next steps. It will really help to use your new found "beginner's mind" to plot the rest of your course!
There's lots of great stuff here from everybody!!!!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Quote: In what ways are you different from your partner? What things might you be able to add to their lives?
Interestingly enough, I think my H and I have become more and more similar through the years in the way we deal with problems. We have been married almost 9 years and together almost 16. I have never liked conflict, but I think living with a conflict avoider has made me MORE of one. Is this true for anyone else?
Quote: In what ways is your partner different from you? What things might they be able to add to YOUR life?
On the surface we seem similar--outgoing, frinedly, good sence of humor, etc. But in reality, he is not as outgoing, etc. as he may seem after you get to know him. Make sense? He has become more of a loner--kinda sad because I need to be around people!
He has added to my life by teaching me so many practical things. I tend to be more "book smart" and he is more "street smart". At one time these things seemed to compliment each other perfectly....now I wonder!
Quote:
What are your strengths and your weaknesses?
S~~ positive, friendly, happy, smart, loyal, good freind, dedicated, energetic W~stubborn, temper, conflict avoider, perfectionist, controlling (I'm working very hard on the last two or three...)
Quote: What are their strengths and weaknesses?
S~smart, hard-working, used to be....thoughtful, loyal, loving....this is SAD! W~conflict avoider, controlling, dishonest (when avoiding conflict), stubborn
I see so many similarities in out strenghts and weaknesses. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? How do I make the best of it?!
Happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder.... (thoreau)
We just don't call each other. 
