What I am about to suggest will seem like DB 101 to you, OJ.
That's because it is.
I want you to answer one question first, though - privately or publically.
Do you want to save your marriage because you love the woman that you live with or because that's the thing you're supposed to be trying to do on this website that's like a second, and much more friendly and welcoming, home for you?
You shouldn't just slam out an answer the minute you read that question either.
I want you to REALLY think about it.
Then I want you to tell me if you think you can start completely over from square one, as if you just found out about this site?
Because I want to know how long it has been since you read Divorce Remedy?
And I want to know how long it has been since you read The 5 Love Languages?
If it's been more than 6 months or a year, read them both again with your fresh eyes.
Then roll up your sleeves.
Contrary to the opinions of some I have been very gentle with you and that will remain the case because that's just the side of me that your personality inspires. Always has - and you and I go way back. It's similar with Frank_D. I do not, nor have I ever, ripped your heads off like I have others around here in the past. That being said, I'm not above telling you to man the hell up. And that is exactly what you need to do, no matter the outcome.
Ball-bustin, Alpha women need Alpha males that don't take their crap.
They don't respect any other kind of man.
My theory is that your wife is a very pissed off, dissatisfied and bitter Alpha female.
And she may not even know it.
To counter all the BS that's been established under your roof it's gonna require some major soul-searching on your part before you do anything else.
Aside from all that you have learned on this site and from your friends here, you have really not implemented much in all the time you've been here.
Your letter surprised me. It was wonderfully written and heartfelt.
It's going to require more of a follow through though, in my opinion.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend laying low.
I can't tell you step by step how to be the man of your house again - only you can figure that out - but a good start would be facing all the imaginery things that you fear will happen if you stand up to your wife.
What is the worst case scenario?
That she will leave and your kids might have to have a little financial aid to attend college?
Welcome to the world the majority of us live in.
What more are you willing to sacrifice?
She's had you by the throat for years.
Stand UP.
Take your proper place in your house.
You are supposed to be leader.
Spiritual and otherwise and I don't even care if you dropped the ball on the former or never even picked it up.
In every aspect of the world, from things the eye can't even see, all the way up to us humans, there is a natural order of things.
It's not natural for a man to be submissive and afraid of the woman he is married to.
So you're a packrat. You made concessions for your wife, who is not.
That's good. Actually it's great.
But I think you need to tell HER all the things you have learned about yourself.
All the regrets you have.
The ways in which you've grown.
And the things of which you now dream.
For yourself.
And for your marriage.
And I don't mean tell her in a letter.
I mean look at the woman that you married and break it the hell DOWN.
Then let her decide if she wants to keep living her life like a b*tch on wheels.
Or a lesbian.
Or whatever she decides.
With or without you.
Break it down.
You are a good man.
Flawed just like the rest of us but at least you're trying to be better.
What is she doing?
Break it down, OJ.
There's nothing to be afraid of.
And you have a whole lot of living to do.
So which wolf are you going to feed? (I know you know the story)
Fear or faith?
Faith in yourself.
Or
Fear of her.
You decide, man.
Not her.
This is YOUR life.
You need to tell her just where you feel you went wrong over the years.
Then listen to her feedback.
It's time for you to quit guessing what she's thinking.
After all the years you've been married, you deserve to KNOW.
Hey Jeff! Amy, you're funny! but I kind of agree with teh essenial message, to stand up to her, turn and face her, not skulk, or go passive-agressive.. to ASK her when somethng crops up, in the moment...to show some emotion? some anger? Some tears? Some passion? Or just be assertive with her! Would that be a 180?? Like when I asked if you were afraid of her.. you seem to let stuff slide by, well thats how it seems from how you post it? Maybe biting your tongue has kept you M.. but as Lisa would surely say.. if you experiment and monitor results and biting your lip (for 3 1/2 years) is not working... do something different!!!
I always said I wished I had your chance.. shes still there isnt she?
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Do you want to save your marriage because you love the woman that you live with or because that's the thing you're supposed to be trying to do on this website that's like a second, and much more friendly and welcoming, home for you?
I thought I knew the answer to this a few weeks ago. I am not so sure right now. I will put some real thought into this one.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
Then I want you to tell me if you think you can start completely over from square one, as if you just found out about this site?
Because I want to know how long it has been since you read Divorce Remedy?
And I want to know how long it has been since you read The 5 Love Languages?
If it's been more than 6 months or a year, read them both again with your fresh eyes.
Then roll up your sleeves.
I think I should read them both again. It's been since last winter, though I have read parts since then.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
Contrary to the opinions of some I have been very gentle with you and that will remain the case because that's just the side of me that your personality inspires. Always has - and you and I go way back. It's similar with Frank_D. I do not, nor have I ever, ripped your heads off like I have others around here in the past. That being said, I'm not above telling you to man the hell up. And that is exactly what you need to do, no matter the outcome.
I have seen you whack people lots harder than you've whacked me.... I think we understand each other.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
Ball-bustin, Alpha women need Alpha males that don't take their crap.
They don't respect any other kind of man.
My theory is that your wife is a very pissed off, dissatisfied and bitter Alpha female.
And she may not even know it.
I think this may very well be true.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
To counter all the BS that's been established under your roof it's gonna require some major soul-searching on your part before you do anything else.
Aside from all that you have learned on this site and from your friends here, you have really not implemented much in all the time you've been here.
Your letter surprised me. It was wonderfully written and heartfelt.
It's going to require more of a follow through though, in my opinion.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend laying low.
I can't tell you step by step how to be the man of your house again - only you can figure that out - but a good start would be facing all the imaginery things that you fear will happen if you stand up to your wife.
What is the worst case scenario?
That she will leave and your kids might have to have a little financial aid to attend college?
Welcome to the world the majority of us live in.
I think I finally started to see this when I decided I could give her the letter. Actaully the "worst case" seems a lot better than the status quo, what is there to be afraid of?
Originally Posted By: AmyC
What more are you willing to sacrifice?
She's had you by the throat for years.
Stand UP.
Take your proper place in your house.
You are supposed to be leader.
Spiritual and otherwise and I don't even care if you dropped the ball on the former or never even picked it up.
In every aspect of the world, from things the eye can't even see, all the way up to us humans, there is a natural order of things.
It's not natural for a man to be submissive and afraid of the woman he is married to.
So you're a packrat. You made concessions for your wife, who is not.
That's good. Actually it's great.
But I think you need to tell HER all the things you have learned about yourself.
All the regrets you have.
The ways in which you've grown.
And the things of which you now dream.
For yourself.
And for your marriage.
And I don't mean tell her in a letter.
I mean look at the woman that you married and break it the hell DOWN.
Then let her decide if she wants to keep living her life like a b*tch on wheels.
Or a lesbian.
Or whatever she decides.
With or without you.
Break it down.
You are a good man.
Flawed just like the rest of us but at least you're trying to be better.
What is she doing?
Break it down, OJ.
There's nothing to be afraid of.
And you have a whole lot of living to do.
So which wolf are you going to feed? (I know you know the story)
Fear or faith?
Faith in yourself.
Or
Fear of her.
You decide, man.
Not her.
This is YOUR life.
You need to tell her just where you feel you went wrong over the years.
Then listen to her feedback.
It's time for you to quit guessing what she's thinking.
After all the years you've been married, you deserve to KNOW.
Good luck.
AmyC
I think you are right. I actually think that taking over the room, and doing it my way is a small step in the right direction. I guess it started when I rearranged it. It wasn't what she would do, but I didn't back down. I've started to do some things my way, she can complain, but I have been sticking to it.
Who knows whether it will work with her. Things might be too far gone, in her mind, or she might not even want to live with any man. (She has sort of said that, actually almost those exact words. Wasn't sure she was serious, thinking maybe so.) But, I feel a lot better recently, I think you are pretty close to the point, Amy.
Besides the DR and LL book that Amy mentions, I have to recommend the "Hold on to your NUT's" book. It is the essential book on how to be the best husband.
Originally Posted By: AmyC
Contrary to the opinions of some I have been very gentle with you and that will remain the case because that's just the side of me that your personality inspires. Always has - and you and I go way back. It's similar with Frank_D. I do not, nor have I ever, ripped your heads off like I have others around here in the past. That being said, I'm not above telling you to man the hell up.
Amy, I like your no beating around the bush style. Tell it like it is girl! You did get sucked too far into the LostPhil chronicles though.
