Hi everyone! Went to the Cavs game tonight with my cousin and some friends to celebrate my b-day. The Cavs look unbeatable...
This doesn't apply to DBing and I may start to ramble so bare with me.... just an interesting conversation I would like to share...
Anyway, I only see my cousin about twice a year and he has NEVER met my wife (timing issues). He's probably the smartest person I know, total brainiac, and works with predictive analysis with cause and effect. Basically, stuff I don't understand. He's not "good with the ladies" shall we say but he gets cause and effect.
He we talked for a few hours over dinner and drinks about my sitch and he became very interested. We went over everything (texts, emails and my threads, stuff I remembered that wasn't documented) and I even brought up my threads on my Blackberry (love that thing!). I'm sure we analyzed it was too much, but he loves this stuff and frankly I appreciated his interest. It was more fun for him then helping family. Weird dude.
The very first thing he suggests is that W knows OM won't work. She may try like hell but W "knows" it won't work. He looks at the evidence that their R is already having issues, his basic faults, the words and phrases they repeat, life situations, no commitment/guarantee and the emotional investment W has already made in OM.
He thinks she is "staging" at this point. Basically, using a set of circumstances to propel herself to another set of circumstance but doesn't know what the next set is. For example, W is using the OM to get her thru the D, knows the R w/ the OM won't work, but doesn't care because W wants to get thru D. W hasn't applied rational thought to post D life. Like having blinders on. When she applies rational thought, she has emotional breakdowns.
He thinks she has some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy going on in her head.
He points to very specific instances that "turned" W toward me. First was the 11/17 date to sign D papers, next was some pursuing by me (ILYs included), W wanting me to be around during that time. He thinks W was feeling her way to see if she could get back in before cutting off OM. When W knew door was open she came back. We had a bad argument and she was gone. He feels my meltdown might have done in the M. As Mules would say "Strength and Honor". I had neither.
He's looking at her behavior now and predicting the cycle coming back around. W was dark for a week, now is angry and punishing .. next should be
His synopsis -W has extreme anxiety (agrees with Techguy). -I'm unstable or inconsistent at best. (what does that nerdy b*astard know Just kidding) - He sees me on a cycle as well. Thinks Gucci has a point about stopping cycling by asking myself "who needs this" and in Tech's comment "The person that cares the least about the M is always in control". - "Hard words" repel W. - If I don't stabilize myself, I'm screwed. I will get nothing stable from W. We were jumping right back in two days into reconciliation attempts. Asked why I let her stay over, knowing she had an affair, and broke up with the guy two days after asking to reconcile. My answer, "'cause I'm a dumb ass". -Feels I DID have expectations when W wanted to reconcile. Was looking at my word usage and punctuation. (WTF man, punctuation?) - Says that I gave W back control immediately once she wanted to reconcile. Points to "the date" that never happened. I let her pick what the date would be. The date amounted to hanging out at the house all day. We should have went "on a date" and I drop her off at MILs. Used the term, "play hard to get" but we know it's taking your life back. Said I ignored the advise of Puppy and Phoenix for this date. I never rationalized Phoenix's question about "can she do what it takes to work?". In retrospect, she can't right now. Again too fast. - I didn't read the signs warnings from board members which were very accurate. - Said I needed more time to decide on my plan before committing to date w/ wife. Said I new all the intel but didn't make a decision based on fact. Or, at least, my plan wasn't consistent with the facts. - Thinks that W's emotional issues suggest going against everything Dbing stands for.. Said my "joke" about pursing, immature love, ILY's was all consistent with my W's needs. I got a big laugh out of that but he points to the facts that she needs "something" to love. Said she needs a stable force in her life to get rid of the current feelings. -Said "baby steps" were mentioned numerous times but the facts indicate that no baby steps were taken. Damn, he nailed that. -He said we talk a about our feelings but nothing is never done. Points to our "needs" talk. Nothing ever materialized.
I'm going to read my threads and get some more perspective of what "actullay" happened and how I got caught up in the title wave.
Just and interesting convesation. Feel free to comment…. I think this does reinforce the "reread your threads" part of Dbing.
Are you to the point where you can discuss your sitch.....and your stomach is not churning....brain is twirling..etc? I know I am. Judging by how "matter of factly" you described the whole story it seems you are.
H 34 W 31 M 11yrs D 11 D 9
6-1-08 I wanted to fix marriage 6-11-08 I found out about OM
His synopsis -W has extreme anxiety (agrees with Techguy). -I'm unstable or inconsistent at best. (what does that nerdy b*astard know Just kidding) - He sees me on a cycle as well. Thinks Gucci has a point about stopping cycling by asking myself "who needs this" and in Tech's comment "The person that cares the least about the M is always in control". - "Hard words" repel W. - If I don't stabilize myself, I'm screwed. I will get nothing stable from W. We were jumping right back in two days into reconciliation attempts. Asked why I let her stay over, knowing she had an affair, and broke up with the guy two days after asking to reconcile. My answer, "'cause I'm a dumb ass". -Feels I DID have expectations when W wanted to reconcile. Was looking at my word usage and punctuation. (WTF man, punctuation?) - Says that I gave W back control immediately once she wanted to reconcile. Points to "the date" that never happened. I let her pick what the date would be. The date amounted to hanging out at the house all day. We should have went "on a date" and I drop her off at MILs. Used the term, "play hard to get" but we know it's taking your life back. Said I ignored the advise of Puppy and Phoenix for this date. I never rationalized Phoenix's question about "can she do what it takes to work?". In retrospect, she can't right now. Again too fast. - I didn't read the signs warnings from board members which were very accurate. - Said I needed more time to decide on my plan before committing to date w/ wife. Said I new all the intel but didn't make a decision based on fact. Or, at least, my plan wasn't consistent with the facts. - Thinks that W's emotional issues suggest going against everything Dbing stands for.. Said my "joke" about pursing, immature love, ILY's was all consistent with my W's needs. I got a big laugh out of that but he points to the facts that she needs "something" to love. Said she needs a stable force in her life to get rid of the current feelings. -Said "baby steps" were mentioned numerous times but the facts indicate that no baby steps were taken. Damn, he nailed that. -He said we talk a about our feelings but nothing is never done. Points to our "needs" talk. Nothing ever materialized.
Wow, this is amazing analysis. Can I please borrow your cousin?
Seriously, reading this really helped. Getting perspective on one's life and aituation is such a huge challenge, and being able to stand outside of it and look at cause and effect the way your cousin did is extremely illuminating.
Anyway, I only see my cousin about twice a year and he has NEVER met my wife (timing issues). He's probably the smartest person I know, total brainiac, and works with predictive analysis with cause and effect. Basically, stuff I don't understand. He's not "good with the ladies" shall we say but he gets cause and effect.
I'll say!
Fascinating, to come at this R stuff strictly from somebody's unbiased cause-and-effect analysis of it. FASCINATING!!
btw, waywards often use OM/OW1 as a staging for OM/OW2, which is why I think it's always smart to focus on the marital breakdowns and then "affair-proofing" the marriage, a la Dr. Harley, rather than just on the specific OM/OW1... because, like a terrorist, you kill one and another one just takes their place.
Carp - I believe I can talk about this without my stomach turning. I noticed, when talking to my cousin, I felt some anxiety over things I did in the past I'm not proud of. I think I need to reconcile that and put it away.
I woke up this morning feeling different. I feel that, for some reason, I'm more detached today. Maybe it was the perspective I got last night, maybe it was another day away from W.
Puppy - Your right, and maybe I should have had this posture at the entire way. Focus on the M breakdowns and myself. OM WAS on his way out, it was just rushed. W wanted to move back in really fast and needed time to push OM out. Looking back, at times she tried but wasn't forceful enough. Looking at her emotional issues, this thing needs a lot of time if we are to reconcile.
Will be spending come time with my cousin before he leaves and maybe we'll talk about this some more but he did mention a "priority list" in terms of my W.
W needs to feel loved and seems to like the pursuing and ILYs to "twist her emotions". I'm not willing to do this any longer as it's fruitless to do so. Makes her believe it is all about my issues and not hers. Cousin said it works when she's in the "lonely and don't belong anywhere" cycle. He thinks I should wait for her which is a DBing principle.
I need to stabilize myself. I got sucked back into the drama of R when W said she wanted to come back. He thinks I use good DBing principles when we are toward D path but fall back into old habits when things are good. WORK ON ME.
He thinks getting W into counseling (IC) is paramount. W's emotional issues and bringing things up from years ago is a clear indicator of fear and bargaining. Bargaining = walls up.
Also said to look at A like this ... PA>EA> No A. Asked me to look at the cycle. Each time PA (R) breaks down with OM. W comes back and they have EA initiated by OM. Said I need to identify this pattern and become more studious of my W.
Thinks emotional issues should take precedence over DB principles. Would like for me to look at it more from the psych standpoint and derive facts from there. He thinks I was too textbook and not enough of understanding my own sitch (facts). W does W need friend so bad. This is the heart of one of her issues. Need this answer to really understand W.
He doesn't think "no contact" w/ OM will work. He believes that it will gradually fade. OM was pursuing but if everything is OK at w/ us then she will push him away. He thinks time is what's relevant here. Kind of a net effect thing going on in my W's head. More good days mean she pushes OM further away. Again, this is not DBing and I'm not going to let her "cake eating" happen in our M. Again, I think to myself, "who needs this?".
He's not "good with the ladies" shall we say but he gets cause and effect.
I don't recommend taking advice about women from a man that isn't "good with the ladies."
That is akin to another woman asking your wife how to have a successful one on one marriage.
Good advice will come from those who ARE good with the ladies. They KNOW things that work and will tell you things to do that DO WORK, that those who are not successful would never dream of doing or would never try.
AGAIN... Who needs this? Make it simple. Stay happy. Don't share. Let her come to you. Be nice. Be decisive. Be confident. Don't pursue. Don't talk about the relationship. Use humor.
Those are things that work for men that have success with the ladies. They don't over analyze. They just follow the plan.
He's not "good with the ladies" shall we say but he gets cause and effect. 