When do the tears go away ?

[still hopeful]

Brother whitney,

THAT was not a rant, but you are on your way. But let me encourage you to rant HERE, and not to your S2BXW and/or anyone who is in contact with her. My mistake is that I have ranted to people whom I thought I could trust, only to find out two things were terribly wrong with my assumption of trust: (1) 'good' friends often think they know what is best to tell XW that you said and when to tell it, often getting all of it wrong, and (2), the fact that I mentioned XW's name, regardless of what was said, was relayed to her and SHE filled heard what she wanted to hear and filled in all of the blanks to fuel her anger for me and justify her actions to herself. So...be careful.

What I found was that XW had quickly gone about 'claiming' our friends as HER friends, giving them the ultimatum that they were either HER friends or my friends, but she would not have them in her life if she was not the chosen friend. One very good thing that came out of that is that I found out who my really true, good friends are...ALL single men, with no wife or GF to further manipulate the decision.

As manipulative as my XW was, I was more saddened by how weak-minded and weak-willed many of our supposed friends are, than I was by her manipulation, which was rooted in her hurts and fears. But, from my sadness came clarity. Clarity on who IS a friend and who is NOT. Clarity about the fact that trust is not to be given lightly and when one's trust is betrayed, that betrayal is disappointing, enlightening, and hurtful. That fact helped me further put my betrayal of my XW's trust into proper perspective; to better walk a proverbial miles in her shoes... somewhat. Anyway, I digress...as I often do. Back to your situation.

Some of the realizations I have come to over my 3 years, as a left behind spouse, is that I cannot focus on what I think i deserve if I really expect to take a critical, honest look at (1) who I was and what I've done and (2) who I intend to make myself into and what is the best, most direct, and most instructive path of getting from where I am currently to who I intend to make myself into. This is all a choice, and further need in another area of your life to start with a BEGINNER'S MIND. Neither you nor I know everything about much, and tossing aside our egos and finding experts in our subject of intrerst and delving into new material/thoughts and critically thinking about this new paradigm and how it fits (or doesn't) into our lives and goals is step 1.

What happened yesterday, and how you were in the past, is irrelevant (unless, of course, we are talking about your goodness). The past is the past. It can neither be relived nor undone. Learn from it. As the saying goes, unless we learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it. That is not good for the 'stuff' that we do not wish to have repeated. This also goes along with not continuing down cheeseless tunnels and/or continuing our own insanity by repeatedly doing the same things over and over and expecting a different. If we want change, change starts with us. Change and happiness is an inside job.

Find a way to replenish your spirit. Being drained only leads us to do desperate (and in my case, sometimes stupid) things. Being fed up is only one step closer to surrender. YOU control your attitude. I will tell you, that in my case, my faith is what has kept my head above water and kept me in the game of saving my M. I respect that you are not religious at all. I am. Again, this is another aspect of your life to look at with a BEGINNER'S MIND. Perhaps you are still closing yourself off to possibilities that are in your best interest because of what you already KNOW. A possibiltiy...?

I don't know maybe I should not be on here reading what I should and should not do???? I wanted to send her a text at midnight saying happy new years.

Banish those thoughts. In Christianity, fellowhip is key to giving one strength in his mission, to add more determination to his resolve, to give accountability when needed, to deepen one's faith. You don't control her. You don't live inside her head. You don't feel what she feels. You are stuck in making assumptions and assumptions are almost always negative and counter-productive. I have felt much of your are feeling, as I am two years deeper into my situation than you are into yours. Focus on you and what you add to others and to the world without adding your expectations to what you get back for what you have done. Having expectations has always led me to feelings of disappointment and despair; feelings of entitlement and deserving. One action that has helped me to feel grounded and in control of my emotions is to reach out to others, XW included (but less so to her), by calling them to just say, "Hi, I thought of you and it made me smile." If I have to leave a message, I just tell them that and add that they just wanted them to know that thoughts of them added to my day and I just wanted them to know that, and no need to call back. (Of course, I would severly limit using this on S2BXW)

I have been working 1000% on doing what I can to improve for myself and my family.

Great. What if what's needed is for you to be working on improving you one thousand and ONE percent!? Google 212 degrees and watch the 'movie' about the difference that only one degree makes between 211 and 212 degrees, then re-think your efforts. Henry Ford said that people too often quit without knowing how close they are to achieving their goal(s). Don't be that guy. If a running back breaks off a long run from his own end one-inch line with time running out and his team behind by less than a touch down and he is hit and pulled on and nearly dragged down from behind at the opposing team's goal line...does he stop? NO. Even if he can't see the goal because of the defenders' efforts, he KNOWS his efforts are worthy; he KNOWS only he can reach the goal; he KNOWS quitting is not an option; he KNOWS surrender is losing.

I am not done responding to your most recent post. I have a pressing commitment that I need to attend to. Quote from Platoon: "Change your mind, you *ss will follow." Change your mind. It's a choice. You control your mind and your thoughts. You control you.

BTW, Happy New Year, Brother.

Tom

p.s. I will finish this post to you later today.

[still hopeful]

Brother whitney,

THAT was not a rant, but you are on your way. But let me encourage you to rant HERE, and not to your S2BXW and/or anyone who is in contact with her. My mistake is that I have ranted to people whom I thought I could trust, only to find out two things were terribly wrong with my assumption of trust: (1) 'good' friends often think they know what is best to tell XW that you said and when to tell it, often getting all of it wrong, and (2), the fact that I mentioned XW's name, regardless of what was said, was relayed to her and SHE filled heard what she wanted to hear and filled in all of the blanks to fuel her anger for me and justify her actions to herself. So...be careful.

What I found was that XW had quickly gone about 'claiming' our friends as HER friends, giving them the ultimatum that they were either HER friends or my friends, but she would not have them in her life if she was not the chosen friend. One very good thing that came out of that is that I found out who my really true, good friends are...ALL single men, with no wife or GF to further manipulate the decision.

As manipulative as my XW was, I was more saddened by how weak-minded and weak-willed many of our supposed friends are, than I was by her manipulation, which was rooted in her hurts and fears. But, from my sadness came clarity. Clarity on who IS a friend and who is NOT. Clarity about the fact that trust is not to be given lightly and when one's trust is betrayed, that betrayal is disappointing, enlightening, and hurtful. That fact helped me further put my betrayal of my XW's trust into proper perspective; to better walk a proverbial miles in her shoes... somewhat. Anyway, I digress...as I often do. Back to your situation.

Some of the realizations I have come to over my 3 years, as a left behind spouse, is that I cannot focus on what I think i deserve if I really expect to take a critical, honest look at (1) who I was and what I've done and (2) who I intend to make myself into and what is the best, most direct, and most instructive path of getting from where I am currently to who I intend to make myself into. This is all a choice, and further need in another area of your life to start with a BEGINNER'S MIND. Neither you nor I know everything about much, and tossing aside our egos and finding experts in our subject of intrerst and delving into new material/thoughts and critically thinking about this new paradigm and how it fits (or doesn't) into our lives and goals is step 1.

What happened yesterday, and how you were in the past, is irrelevant (unless, of course, we are talking about your goodness). The past is the past. It can neither be relived nor undone. Learn from it. As the saying goes, unless we learn from our history, we are doomed to repeat it. That is not good for the 'stuff' that we do not wish to have repeated. This also goes along with not continuing down cheeseless tunnels and/or continuing our own insanity by repeatedly doing the same things over and over and expecting a different. If we want change, change starts with us. Change and happiness is an inside job.

Find a way to replenish your spirit. Being drained only leads us to do desperate (and in my case, sometimes stupid) things. Being fed up is only one step closer to surrender. YOU control your attitude. I will tell you, that in my case, my faith is what has kept my head above water and kept me in the game of saving my M. I respect that you are not religious at all. I am. Again, this is another aspect of your life to look at with a BEGINNER'S MIND. Perhaps you are still closing yourself off to possibilities that are in your best interest because of what you already KNOW. A possibiltiy...?

I don't know maybe I should not be on here reading what I should and should not do???? I wanted to send her a text at midnight saying happy new years.

Banish those thoughts. In Christianity, fellowhip is key to giving one strength in his mission, to add more determination to his resolve, to give accountability when needed, to deepen one's faith. You don't control her. You don't live inside her head. You don't feel what she feels. You are stuck in making assumptions and assumptions are almost always negative and counter-productive. I have felt much of your are feeling, as I am two years deeper into my situation than you are into yours. Focus on you and what you add to others and to the world without adding your expectations to what you get back for what you have done. Having expectations has always led me to feelings of disappointment and despair; feelings of entitlement and deserving. One action that has helped me to feel grounded and in control of my emotions is to reach out to others, XW included (but less so to her), by calling them to just say, "Hi, I thought of you and it made me smile." If I have to leave a message, I just tell them that and add that they just wanted them to know that thoughts of them added to my day and I just wanted them to know that, and no need to call back. (Of course, I would severly limit using this on S2BXW)

I have been working 1000% on doing what I can to improve for myself and my family.

Great. What if what's needed is for you to be working on improving you one thousand and ONE percent!? Google 212 degrees and watch the 'movie' about the difference that only one degree makes between 211 and 212 degrees, then re-think your efforts. Henry Ford said that people too often quit without knowing how close they are to achieving their goal(s). Don't be that guy. If a running back breaks off a long run from his own end one-inch line with time running out and his team behind by less than a touch down and he is hit and pulled on and nearly dragged down from behind at the opposing team's goal line...does he stop? NO. Even if he can't see the goal because of the defenders' efforts, he KNOWS his efforts are worthy; he KNOWS only he can reach the goal; he KNOWS quitting is not an option; he KNOWS surrender is losing.

I am not done responding to your most recent post. I have a pressing commitment that I need to attend to. Quote from Platoon: "Change your mind, you *ss will follow." Change your mind. It's a choice. You control your mind and your thoughts. You control you.

BTW, Happy New Year, Brother.

Tom

p.s. I will finish this post to you later today.

[still hopeful]

Sorry, my wireless connection seems to have caused my to post my last post too many times. It kept timing out.

One thought before I go, please re-read my previous 2 or 3 posts slowly and mull them over. Please. You are doing what is right be being here.

Tom

[still hopeful]

Back again. Loooong part 2. Grab a drink. Sit back relax. I fancy myself quite a writer. You poor soul. Your stuck with me.

My W left me and our family PERIOD.
She has not looked back for a second and is moving forward at the speed of light. She prides herself with her ability to make a decision, stick with it and never look back. It's both a great thing and a very sad thing. Her parents have rewarded her her whole life when she gets into trouble by bailing her out financially.

Yes, this is true. But leaving rarely ever comes out of no where. Signs are usually there, even if we didn't want to see them. Stop assuming about your wife. You cannot read her mind. Watch. See what happens. Listen. Take in information. Make up your own mind based on rational, objective fact.

My W still is blaming me 100% for the whole thing.

My XW did, basically, the same thing. Recently, she has begun changing her tune, but I an untrusting of changes in her because 'changes' have come before that were temporary and based on other circumstances in her life. I do believe this will change for you, as well.

My W did not even send my a happy new years text.

So what.... I know it hurts but, so what...? Stop expecting what YOU want her to do and understand that SHE is living her life, with HER hurts and HER disappointments, FOR HER.

Yes, I know that is the point of all of the DB stuff.
BUT at what point do we all just say.....”we deserve to be with someone that truly loves us”. If our spouses truly loved us would they not make the effort to REALLY try to understand why they were unhappy before they left, therefore showing how much they value the marriage and the family.

Should/would/could and their horrible best buddy if need to be banished from your marriage/relationship thoughts. Live in the world of what IS. Focus on the possibilities and what may still be for you and yours. Your S2BXW is piecing her life back together as well as she is able. Please take the family from whence she cam into consideration when deciphering her chosen path/plan of action.

My therapist basically said the main ingredient to marriage is commitment. Commitment to working through everything because your marriage is the most important thing in your life.

I agree, but a close 2nd and 3rd are communication and honesty. In fact, I think all 3 are essential.

I am not pointing the finger at my W and saying it's all her fault but I just can't believe....

It seems you are, and YES, you can believe. Breathe and talke a deep honest look at you and your sitch.

It's fantastic that you went to the Rejoice Ministries website. I know that your are not a religious man, but I know that you sense that 'something' is missing from your life, and I am not talking about your wife. God made all of us in His image and that is why we have a conscience and a deep longing to find meaning in our own existence. THAT longing is a seed planted in your being when your existence was first thought of by Him. Pursue your curiosity locally. Fellowship is key to finding your truth. Fellowship will keep you accountable. Fellowship will keep you on the right path. Fellowship will surround you with like-minded people who have your best interests and God's will in mind for you and yours. But, do this locally, NOT just through a website, please.

Our WAWs did not have that commitment at all.....they walked. Sure we were to blame but what about their role?

Yes, we were, for OUR part. Yes, they did, as much as they knew how to show it. Remember, we learn our values from our families of origin. As my past marriage counselor once described troubles in relationship, she said that (in this example, love) sometimes we want $20 of love from someone and that person only EVER has $5 of love (by our definition) but they are giving ALL of their $5 (love) to us willingly. Sadly, since we sometimes don't communicate even the simplest (to us) ideas to others in understandable (to them) ways, we are like to ships passing in the night, never meeting; never meeting each others needs. This is where Chapman's- Five Languages of Love helps.

Your in-laws are not 'rewarding' your S2BXW for anything. They are just taking care of theirs, which looks different to you obviously, but it's not about you. They have money and apparently they show it by giving money and buying things.

I jst can't imagine the girl I married has no interest to even talk to me about our M given the great children we have.

Step out of yourself. Yes, you can. She's hurting, confused, angry and scared. Your children were not the problem, nor can they be the answer. You're looking in the wrong place, at the wrong people. Look at YOU. Make YOU attractive to her again. You once were. Be that again. You probably weren't following a game plan to get her to fall for you. It's learnable. Learn how! Truly start with a BEGINNER'S MIND. Your ego is NOT your friend. Not here. Usually not ever.

I think we kid ourselves with all this DB stuff. Yes, we do it for ourselves but the fact is this….our WAW will come back to us if they feel like it PERIOD. The truth is they usually don’t. I think if you really look at these posts that the majority of success is men coming back to their marriages. I don’t see hardly any women coming back.

Come to grips with the fact that YOU are angry at your wife. You are scared. You are embarrassed about YOUR mistakes. You hate that you didn't know what you didn't know.

By saying, "all this DB stuff," your are minimizing yourself, your wants/need, your own goals/hopes/dreams, and all of our goals/hopes/dreams. Don't do that. Not to yourself. Not to us who believe. Minimizing others is emotional violence.

I understand that your belief is that the majority of the stories is about the man coming back to the woman. Please consider that women are far more communicative and for more social than we men are. You are setting yourself apart as a man in two ways: (1) you are 'talking' to others about your pain, and (2)you are seeking help. Good for you. Don't backslide here. Most men wouldn't come here, let alone post. Too 'scary' to post about a man's fears, weakness, and hurts. Much easier to b*tch to buddies about the failures of their spouse and to seek answers and solutions. Don't delude yourself into falling back into the pack of DO NOTHING men. Be a leader and lead your family back to reconciliation and unity. In case you haven't noticed, YOU are the only leader in your family that anyone, even you, can see. Man up, my friend. Being the leader is often lonely. But being the leader is the answer here.

My parents called yesterday and said they would like to see my W and I get back together. This is an absolute 180 for them. It was nice to hear that but it made it worse for me.

'Buy' two mental file cabinets and LOTS of folders for your brain. Label one of the file cabinets GOOD EXPERIENCES w/ or about WIFE and the other NOT-SO-GOOD EXPERIENCES w/ or about WIFE. The folders are each only big enough for the actual experiences; no embellishments, no reading into anything. Objective facts only. GOOD EXPERIENCES is where you file the experience with your parents. PERIOD! File it. It's a nice memory. Stop muddying it.

I know in my heart that my W will never come back.

NO, YOU DON'T KNOW! You believe this negative thought because it loops over and over in your mind. Change that loop to a positive, affirming one. Cultivate your BEGINNER'S MIND.

I guess by staying on this board I keep up some kind of hope. But does hope stop us from accepting the reality …… that’s called denial.

Start KNOWING. Stop guessing. Being here will help you to keep hope alive. And no, hope does not keep us from accepting reality...you KNOW you are going to be divorced. Not accepting that would be denial. Right now your are working at reconciliation of a failed relationship and your are DBing alone. But DBing alone is one more than would be DBing if YOU decided to give up.

Some quotes for you: Never, never, never give in. -Winston Churchill; "Change your mind, your *ss will follow." -Platoon

I am with you, Brother. Be with me. Be with us. All of us welcome the energy that comes from the hope and PMA of others whose stories are similar.

Your friend,

Tom

[still hopeful]

Ooops, forgot to fit this in. Part 3.

I am fed up. I have been working 1000% on doing what I can to improve for myself and my family. I don't even get any crumbs thrown my way. Sure my W has softened a bit and recently has even signed an email with hugs BUT seriously....there is a family here.
There was not even a discussion about that before she left. Yes, I was not open to discussion as I was always defensive. Look, I get it I messed up. I just want some relief and to be foregiven.

Get over being fed up. You're just getting started. Your attitude is up to you. It's great that you have given 1000% percent. What is all this is needed is one thousand and ONE percent? Henry Ford said that too often people quit without knowing how close they were to their goal. Be the finisher, not the quitter. It takes courage. Pat yourself on the back. Throw yourself crumbs. Surround yourself with positive people who are on your side. Cheer for YOU.

Your wife has softened...file this in the GOOD EXPERIENCES cabinet. Take the e-mail hugs and say nothing. Be OPEN! Read nothing into this unexpected display of NICENESS from her.

No discussion. But signs of trouble were visible would be my guess. And defensiveness did not make the prospect of a discussion palatable or safe to her.

It's great that you get that you messed up. Give yourself relief and forgiveness from the one person you can NEVER run away from...YOU! Do that and your aura will change. Others will sense the change in you and in your attitude. She will, most definitely. But you won't truly forgive yourself until you have completely owned up to and taken responsibility for your contribution to the demise of your M over time.

Good luck, my friend, we are with you.

Tom

p.s. Google 212 degrees. There is a great video online about the difference only ONE degree can make. You may agree that you need that extra degree of effort.

[whitneypinch]

Dear Tom,

When I wrote my "rant" I think I was as low as I had become since the B. I had been in a horrible spot for the last week. It was probably enhanced by the holidays and the fact that my W was running hot and cold with me.

Due to your fantastic guidance/experience and that of another poster on this board something has started to change in me in the last 24 hours. I believe I am starting to drop the rope. At least I "may" be starting to detach (in a loving way). At least I am not feeling as needy.

Yes, of course there were problems in m M and I was aware of them. I was just starting to research about them when the B hit. That is in the past now. So yes, I am starting from a beginners mind. I am starting to finally accept that this is my journey and my W is on her own. I had really been caught up in feeling that my wife truly did not care about me and was not effected at all by this. Another poster has finally made me understand that my W is also probably going through some tough pain. I don't want to see her in pain, but in some small way it makes me realize that I did matter.

Anyway, I just watched the 212 movie and it was fantastic inspiration. It actually charged me up. I am a very upbeat guy. I am known to posses a great passion for life. That is what my W feel in love with. I had lost that. I believe it's coming back again. I want to try and enhance that and just stay focussed on that for me and my children.

On new years I sent a few texts out to some friends and was amazed at the wonderful responses I got back. Sometime we forget about who we have become. I guess the incredible love and devotion to my kids has become really evident to the people around me. It's just so natural that I didn't notice it. I had been focussing so much on what I don't have with them, when they are not with me. I have to turn that around an focus on my career when they are not with me.

Today I am in a great place. As we all know the challenge is to try to stay in that place. It's a roller coaster and sometimes it can change in a blink of an eye.

The funny thing happened. I was texting with my W a bit and trying to keep the conversation going. She basically ended it and said I will talk to you when I get back in 12 days. I was so hurt that she just blew me off. It hit me pretty hard. Guess what happened???? A day after she told me that my daughters tooth fell out an my W sent me a text and phoned me. I had a nice little conversation and got off the phone. Normally I would send a follow-up text saying how nice it was to talk to her etc. This time I didn't even think of it. That I believe is the first feeling of "dropping the rope". What I had been doing had not helped with our R and quiet frankly had been really messing me up.
All of this is here for a reason. if my W decides she wants to come back then that is great. If she does not then there is also something else even greater going to come my way.

It's time for me to take back MY life and live it to the fullest for myself and my kids !!!

So, Tom thank you again for helping me see and feel even more !!!

[still hopeful]

You, my brother, are welcome. I loved your post. You sound MUCH better. I am so happy for that. I will post more in detail later (yes, OF COURSE! ), but just a quick post for right now to acknowledge YOU for turning the corner you needed to turn to allow you to SEE the positive possibilities in front of you and yours, and to congratulate YOU for making the DECISION to change YOUR attitude.

In a similar way that my friend, frank_D, helped me get through the worst of MY times, I want to help you (& others) get through yours (& theirs). frank_D also encouraged me to give back to others when I was emotionally able to give back because, by giving back, I would always keep what worked positively for me in my situation in the forefront of my mind to assist in keeping me from forgetting my fruitful efforts and to help me to NOT backslide.

Remember to surround yourself with others who are on YOUR side and who support your efforts in the vein of reconciling your damaged M and family unit. You seem to have good, supportive friends around you. Be with them often. Talk with them more often. Additionally, you have friends here. When all else fails, blog here. 'Talking' always helps me to organize and process my challenges and to make the best decisions on how best to proceed. Perhaps the same approach will help you. Regardless, you have at least two posters here who will walk what often feels like a deserted road but, it is NOT deserted.

Keep this in mind as your journey continues; you may have trudged through the 'worst' already, but you also may NOT have reached that point. Regardless, you will have MANY more peaks and valleys in your journey; personal, professional, marital and familial. Although everything feels personal, much of what happens is NOT personal. Others, including S2BXW, live their lives with themselves in mind first, NOT you. That fact hurts, but it's true. It's also sobering and helps you to keep in mind that while your troubles suck for you, their troubles suck for them.

Be humble. Be compassionate. Be present. Be real. Talk soon to you, brother.

Tom

p.s. Your PMA is yours as long as you decide claim it, nurture it, and protect it. Give the world the gift of the new and improved you.

[whitneypinch]

Well, I went away with friends for the weekend to our cottage.
This morning W sent me a text asking me to get my kids passport photos taken next week. Then she gave me a report how they are doing on her trip with them. She was friendly. This seems to be a pattern (I think). I do not initiate contact and she last about 3-5 days and then contacts me. The problem is that when I hear from her I am way tooooo enthusiastic (needy) back. I am trying to just cool it down a bit. I am warm and appreciative to hear from her and I leave it at that.

The truth I have no idea why she is being warm. I guess I should not worry about it and just "file" under pleasurable experiences.

I have to really stay focussed on what I am doing and worry only about my kids.

Tom, do you ever initiate contact or do you wait for her?

Greg

[iwantout]

Your situation is so sad. But what can you do about it. Nothing but have faith and then live with it. Your kids are so young but kids hurt even when they are adults. It just makes a mess. Stay positive and stay busy with things. If you are serious about getting back together, things would not include dating. Hang in there. Hugs!

_____________
Me/H 49/55
D29/S27/S23/D21/D20/D16
T/M: 30/29.5
Sep: 8/03

[whitneypinch]

Iwantout thanks for the kind words and support. I just went and read your posts.
Please know that I am here for you as well as other on this board. I was such a mess and Tom has really given me the support to go on. I just found his posts one day and he and I have been writting tons (as you can see above).
I know it's tough to read these boards and see both men and women trying to reconcile. I know we wish that our spouces would wake up and help comfort us so that we could love them again.
As you say, there is nothing we can do except have faith. Well...there are lot's of things we can do. I too have worn out most of my friends with this but there is usually one that is still there for you. You really get an eye opener on your friends through a crisis like this.
Feel free to post to me.
There are a lot of people on her for you.
Your kids love you no mater waht and NEED you.

Greg