It was a HORRIBLE night, but again, I'm pretty proud of myself - previously it would've degenerated, and I would've have gotten mad back - I would have probably "scored stinger points" but would not have gotten the reaction I did. By the way, that is how W apologizes. When she screws something up, she comes back in a very in-control way, and basically gives you what you asked for, and then asks if you're OK with it.
AinO, I was flipping out about W because I was worried about losing time with my kids - not where she was. That is a personal victory for me - used to freak out all the time.
My next task - I need to focus on not caring where she is all the time. Right now, I haven't had much trouble with jealousy, but when it is a family time like this, and she refused to be together with the kids, it bothers me, especially since she is probably going to go out with OM. OM has 3 kids, but is content to be a McDonalds dad, just has them a couple days every couple of weeks. Makes me sad for them.
But, I take a deep breath, and I realize kids and I are going to have a blast, and bring in the New Year together, and she is going to miss out. They will remember that they invited her, and she said no.
That is my challenge for ME, and it is getting easier, with my secondary challenge being to completely disconnect now. Luckily, W is pretty pissy, so I won't have to worry about keeping contact short!
I do remember that the last time I cut off contact, she not only came over and came in, she was friendly, fun, laughing. Sigh, it's like in golf: they tell you the easier you swing, the farther the ball will go.
AinO, I am stealing this advice that you gave Veronica, and actually may have it tattooed backward on my forehead so I can read it everywhere I go - bathroom, car, etc.
Quote:
Over analyzing, emotional thinking, frustration.... That is due to loss of focus. Go over your goals every day. Concentrate on you PMA. Things will fall in place if, and only if, you stick to the plan.
I am stealing this advice that you gave Veronica, and actually may have it tattooed backward on my forehead so I can read it everywhere I go - bathroom, car, etc.
I get to put myself to the test of your advice above, so I'm going to get on her and vent/journal and release a little steam.
W had plans to go with kids to the zoo on Thursday evening, but gave kids option of going to the zoo tonight with a friend, and having a "party" Thursday night. The kids chose that - it was all W's idea, and she is really good at wording things so that the kids will go for it.
I found out why soon.
I said something to them about playing the Wii for the party, and taking our two controllers to have four controllers, and they said, "Well, Mommy's boyfriend is coming." Pisses me off to here them call OM that. W doesn't even call him her boyfriend - they are so just naive, and think it's just something normal that is happening. Breaks my heart.
Anyway, so what happened is this: W beat on me and beat on me to get the kids at 5pm so she could go to the zoo to them. Threw the huge fit you saw above. Then, now that OM is around, she skips out on the fun FAMILY together time, to throw a party to be with OM. She worked, and let one of her friends take the kids. I gave up MY holiday time because I felt bad for W, and wanted her to have a special time with the kids. Remember, she called me crying, wanting to take them to the zoo, and make a special memory, and I always got to have the fun things. Gritting teeth!
The only thing that makes it tolerable is that there are a couple of kids and other friends coming as well - so for the third time, W is keeping a lot of people involved. How weird is it that I know I can go up against OM, and beat him with W - but when it comes to having him around my kids, it about makes me lose my mind?
AinO, I said on your thread that I thought W needed to learn lesson on her own, but if it ever goes beyond a group setting, I'm following your words, and giving that boundary/ultimatum.
OK, so read my post above before reading this. C'mon A in Ohio, let me have it!
I was pretty angry that W had been what I felt was dishonest, and I thought she had put on crocodile tears, and I decided that I needed to stand up to her taking advantage of my time, in a kind, but firm way (Gucci: firm but flexible!). I messaged her and said, "I'm disappointed that you were so emotional about going to the zoo, and spending special time with the kids, and then you sent them with a friend, and are throwing a party with alot of people instead of it being a bonding time."
I told her basically what I said above - that I gave up special family holiday time so that SHE could have special family holiday time.
She called me! Holy cow, second time in two days, and she will never call or answer phone, and rarely will respond via text. Big thing to note before reading: she also will NEVER discuss her feelings with me - part of the reason we are where we are!
She was pretty hot under the color, and she started off "I'm sick and tired of you making out that I don't do things with the kids - I do make special times, and the KIDS picked the party time. I told them that we were going to the zoo, and THEY wanted to have the party."
I started to explain myself, and she said, "Just listen to me!"
A in Ohio will be proud. I closed my mouth.
She continued, and it was very odd because she said this, "I'm having D8, and S6, and babysitter/BFF, and BFF's friend, and little kid from down the street, and we're going to play games."
She specifically left out OM - is she just trying to spare my feelings? Just seemed odd - because she is in this self-righteous phase where she would name him on purpose because she is "doing nothing wrong."
Anyway, I just listened without making a peep. When she finished, I said, "W, you're right. I was just about to message you and tell you that I shouldn't have said anything, because it wasn't fair of me to butt in because I don't know what you and the kids talked about. I just remember taking D8/S6 to the roller skating rink for the first time, and it was awesome teaching them, and I'll never forget it, and I want you to have memories like that too."
Narrator break-in: W has it in her head that I think she's a bad mom. I have never implied this in any way, shape, or form. Maybe her guilt?
I continued: "You said that I think you're a bad mom, but I think you're a great mom - as a matter of fact, I have always said that you're the best mom I have ever seen. I know you will make special times with the kids, and I hope you guys have an absolute blast!"
W: (pause) "Well, OK."
Me: "Ok, see ya later."
I don't think I have rendered W basically speechless in many years. It is true about the best mom thing - before this, I would have put her up for mom of the year award - makes this that much harder to understand.
While W was pitching-a-fit angry at me last night, she told D8 that OM was the "nicest man she'd ever met" - probably directly in response to W telling me that I was mean.
Somehow, that is oddly comforting to me - in an affair, smoldering sex is hard to compete with. But a guy that's "nice" - now THAT'S something I can compete with.
(Yes, I know, AinO - don't listen to what WAS says, it's so much crap)
OK, so read my post above before reading this. C'mon A in Ohio, let me have it!
I was pretty angry that W had been what I felt was dishonest, and I thought she had put on crocodile tears, and I decided that I needed to stand up to her taking advantage of my time, in a kind, but firm way (Gucci: firm but flexible!). I messaged her and said, "I'm disappointed that you were so emotional about going to the zoo, and spending special time with the kids, and then you sent them with a friend, and are throwing a party with alot of people instead of it being a bonding time."
I told her basically what I said above - that I gave up special family holiday time so that SHE could have special family holiday time.
She called me! Holy cow, second time in two days, and she will never call or answer phone, and rarely will respond via text. Big thing to note before reading: she also will NEVER discuss her feelings with me - part of the reason we are where we are!
She was pretty hot under the color, and she started off "I'm sick and tired of you making out that I don't do things with the kids - I do make special times, and the KIDS picked the party time. I told them that we were going to the zoo, and THEY wanted to have the party."
I started to explain myself, and she said, "Just listen to me!"
A in Ohio will be proud. I closed my mouth.
She continued, and it was very odd because she said this, "I'm having D8, and S6, and babysitter/BFF, and BFF's friend, and little kid from down the street, and we're going to play games."
She specifically left out OM - is she just trying to spare my feelings? Just seemed odd - because she is in this self-righteous phase where she would name him on purpose because she is "doing nothing wrong."
Anyway, I just listened without making a peep. When she finished, I said, "W, you're right. I was just about to message you and tell you that I shouldn't have said anything, because it wasn't fair of me to butt in because I don't know what you and the kids talked about. I just remember taking D8/S6 to the roller skating rink for the first time, and it was awesome teaching them, and I'll never forget it, and I want you to have memories like that too."
Narrator break-in: W has it in her head that I think she's a bad mom. I have never implied this in any way, shape, or form. Maybe her guilt?
I continued: "You said that I think you're a bad mom, but I think you're a great mom - as a matter of fact, I have always said that you're the best mom I have ever seen. I know you will make special times with the kids, and I hope you guys have an absolute blast!"
W: (pause) "Well, OK."
Me: "Ok, see ya later."
I don't think I have rendered W basically speechless in many years. It is true about the best mom thing - before this, I would have put her up for mom of the year award - makes this that much harder to understand.
Bravo, Bravo!!!! Validated, STUFU and listened, told her she was right.... Very good. You should be pumped about this.
You started picking a fight but got yourself out of it. Very nice. Fights are counterproductive (among other things ).
Here are some tips that are all over this board... Commit to memory, it will make your life more enjoyable...
-WAS will be dishonest. WAS in A will lie even more. Remember Jon, this is about your W's emotions so don't get caught up in facts (truth). Don't argue facts.
-Don't take what the kids say to heart. Don't take what WAS says to heart. This will be very difficult.
-Make your decisions for your sake, not because WAS turn on the water works. Anything you "think" in terms of WAS is just guessing and it's futile. We can't be sure she was manipulating you. Maybe she is really upset about all this. Pick the best option every time. Don't be selfish.
- This is a quote from you, "I do remember that the last time I cut off contact, she not only came over and came in, she was friendly, fun, laughing. Sigh, it's like in golf: they tell you the easier you swing, the farther the ball will go. " --- Keep this up. DBer's call it going dark.
I wouldn't have let the argument continue - if W had responded poorly, and not had the good chat, I would've said, "No need to argue, just sharing my feelings."
Here is the text of an email I sent concerning how I responded to her call the other day - when she was crying, and I got in the stab about it being her choices. I mean every word of this:
---------------------------------------------- I was wrong yesterday. When you first texted me about getting the kids early, I guess I got a little defensive... Ok, maybe really defensive!
And then by the time you called me, I just thought that you were trying to control me or bulldoze me over.
However, you called, and poured out your heart to me - I felt real pain from you, and I took advantage of that to try to get in a couple of moral cheap shots, and I am ashamed.
I am not like that, and I won't be like that.
You said a couple of days ago that you felt I didn't respect you, and in that phone call I DIDN'T treat you with the respect that you deserve.
I was wrong yesterday. When you first texted me about getting the kids early, I guess I got a little defensive... Ok, maybe really defensive!
And then by the time you called me, I just thought that you were trying to control me or bulldoze me over.
However, you called, and poured out your heart to me - I felt real pain from you, and I took advantage of that to try to get in a couple of moral cheap shots, and I am ashamed.
I am not like that, and I won't be like that.
You said a couple of days ago that you felt I didn't respect you, and in that phone call I DIDN'T treat you with the respect that you deserve.
I'm sorry.
Jon - I know you mean well by sending this message, however, this is classic pursuing. Make sure this is the last apology email you send.
Interesting day today, sort of broke my Jan 15 rule, but W DID start it.
I texted W asking her to drop off kids a tad early. She texted me wanting to know what was going on tonight with kids - I told her I am taking kids to a New Year's Eve skate thing that started at a certain time, so wanted to have the kids a bit earlier.
She said she was leaving at 6, and a friend was going to bring them over, so I confirmed.
I then texted her, seeing what she was gonna be doing (thinking she had a NYE party at work) - made a comment about how I got huge blisters the last time went roller skating. I figured she had asked me 20 questions, so it was OK to ask back. Of course, right after I sent it, I was like ah, crap, dummy - she's with OM! (Yes, AinO, from now on, I won't ask regardless, just show I don't care)
Anyway, she texted back, "None of your business."
ME: "Sorry, wasn't being nosy, just chattin"
W: "No you weren't just chatting"
Me: "Yeah, I was just thinking, I hope you have 9 martinis - you should have some fun before going back to school next week."
W: "I am not drinking"
Me: "Well, at least get in some dancing! I honestly hope you have a blast!"
W: "Thank you"
Then about 3 minutes later, she sent me a cute video of S6 singing "I am the Eggman"...
A great example of her starting out all up in bristles, and then easing off because she sees genuineness from me. Best thing is that I know she'll be with OM - and I didn't ask, didn't even imply anything, and I said I hoped she had a blast - stuff that she probably likes to hear, but doesn't want to believe. Also, I'm very responsible, very kid-oriented - would pick being with my kids over anything else. W is not so much, so for me to wish her to get out and cut loose, and not ask about OM - big 180 for me. And the best thing is, I really mean it for her. Of course, I wish she would do it with her family, but you know, every one needs to get out.
Then, I texted her again thinking that I had $100 to burn off our HSA card - use it or lose it before the end of the year, and asked if she needed band-aids, vitamins, or anything. She said vitamins, etc.
I got to the store, bought the stuff, and then realized I had spent $96 at dentist, so had a whopping $4.00. I texted this to W to let her know, and she sent back "LOL".
Just nice, light conversation - her responding nicely. Sending me a cute video of the kids, responding with LOL, saying thank you.
I read someone else's post - and they said they thought that by being W's friend, they were showing them they were OK with the divorce, and W would move on with the divorce thinking they were all right with it. I feel the exact same way right now.
But here is the reality - I can do the opposite, act like I always have, and completely obliterate all chances of ever recovering relationship - OR - I can be nice, sneak up on her, get her to laugh, get her to see me in reality instead of what she's got in her head, start letting those good memories of us start surfacing in her head, and before you know it, tada!!! I let her know that I think divorce is wrong, and affairs are especially wrong, so she knows how I feel.
Ok, day 1 of extremely dim - business contact only.
