The Jealousy Button (men only)

[RobD70]

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Replace "wife" with "husband" and "she" with "he," then that's the mentality you are adopting. If you are married and want to date then push for the D. But why would you want to play a "game" that has real consequences for lot's of people because of your vendetta?
You can have a great M either with your current W or in the future with someone else. Be strong ,wise, honorable and compassionate. Lead by your example, if she doesn't see your character shining thru then it then it's her issue. Have character - don't be one.
The way you all are describing dating it sounds like "little boy" behavior. She hurt me so I am going to pout and then hurt her back. Are we that needy that we have to jump out and find another woman to validate our manhood? This in no way excuses or dismisses the hurt by the way you are being treated by your W. You only control your actions. So do you want to follow her lead or be your own man?

Strength and Honor


That is true but I think the point is to let the WAS feel what they are missing and empathize with us. I don't care to be validated by someone else and yea, it sort of is trying to teach them a lesson.

The sad fact is that it does work. Is it wrong? Probably. In all fairness I'm not sure I can go through with it because it does weigh on my conscience but if I can plant a "seed" in my W's head that it's a possibility then maybe that's enough. In my sitch I honestly don't see my W coming back anyway after leaving me 3 times for the OM. I'm not sure I really want her back anymore, that's really hard to deal with and I have to look at what and why I'm doing all of this.

[Coach]

That is true but I think the point is to let the WAS feel what they are missing and empathize with us.

How can you make someone else feel something that will have lasting value? If you are trying to manipulate someone elses feeling to get what you want, is that a healthy relationship?

it sort of is trying to teach them a lesson.

Negative reinforcment. I think it also immature to treat another adult that way. She will learn her own lesson (maybe) when you make yourself the better option.

The sad fact is that it does work.

And if it does is that the R you want?

Is it wrong? Probably. In all fairness I'm not sure I can go through with it because it does weigh on my conscience but if I can plant a "seed" in my W's head that it's a possibility then maybe that's enough.

You feel it's wrong why? Does it go against your core values? Plant seeds that produce positive fruit for you.

In my sitch I honestly don't see my W coming back anyway after leaving me 3 times for the OM. I'm not sure I really want her back anymore, that's really hard to deal with and I have to look at what and why I'm doing all of this.

Get to the bottom of that. What do you really want? Five years from now what does Rob plan on being?

[RobD70]

Hey Coach, I really do respect your opinion and I do sometimes don’t think things through.

That is true but I think the point is to let the WAS feel what they are missing and empathize with us.

How can you make someone else feel something that will have lasting value? If you are trying to manipulate someone elses feeling to get what you want, is that a healthy relationship?

It in itself is not meant to have lasting value. It is to wake up the WAS sooner to what they are losing. In my case there’s a OM that’s more exciting than me but not a better match for her. She will choose excitement over a sure thing any day but I know that excitement will eventually fade and she may want me back giving enough time.

it sort of is trying to teach them a lesson.

Negative reinforcment. I think it also immature to treat another adult that way. She will learn her own lesson (maybe) when you make yourself the better option.

I think she knows in the back of her mind I am a better option but she can’t resist her feelings. The WAS are not rational so you can’t expect them to do the right thing. They run off pure emotions so this kind of fights fire with fire.

The sad fact is that it does work.

And if it does is that the R you want?

Not based on that no, but it turns the tables on them.

Is it wrong? Probably. In all fairness I'm not sure I can go through with it because it does weigh on my conscience but if I can plant a "seed" in my W's head that it's a possibility then maybe that's enough.

You feel it's wrong why? Does it go against your core values? Plant seeds that produce positive fruit for you.

It does. Regardless of how I come off in the forums I am the classical nice guy and sometimes a doormat. I have and continue to do things to show my W that I’m a good guy and in time it may pay off all by itself.

In my sitch I honestly don't see my W coming back anyway after leaving me 3 times for the OM. I'm not sure I really want her back anymore, that's really hard to deal with and I have to look at what and why I'm doing all of this.

Get to the bottom of that. What do you really want? Five years from now what does Rob plan on being?

I don’t know what I really want yet but I am a better person now and any R I have in the future should be 100x better from what I have learned.

You have giving me pause about this and I’m a bit conflicted. This does go against my character and who knows, my W may have a change of heart in a couple of months or so and decide to come back again, or file for a D tomorrow.
On the other hand, most WAS don’t tend to come back until they feel they are losing you and have moved on which means finding an OP. This would eventually happen anyway down the road as I start to lose patients and if the W decided she was finally through and filed and ended up marrying the OM (he wants to marry her ASAP). I’m on the fence now, I may just play it by ear or at least think on it more. This isn’t my style but it was fun thinking about it. There are people that not only claim this works but that it’s one of the only ways to get them back in some cases.

[RobD70]

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I hope I don't get into too much trouble for this, I don't know what the rules are for quoting material.

They may not like it and find the notion of "dating" others distasteful and yes, jealousy can been seen as "infantile" and not consistent with love. It can be seen as possessive...yes, it is a manipulative "tactic" in the purest sense when used this way, but that does not lessen it’s effectiveness, it can be the absolute quickest way to get a partner (that is leaving you) to turn their head long enough to see what they may be losing...

Jealousy is just one of those aspects of human nature that are so readily and clearly observable and probably has a biological basis to it yet many are quick to deny. Like it or not, it is connected with the survival of the human race and is effective in re wining a wandering spouse.

You should also keep in mind that you don't have to have a real flesh and blood person to "act" as your partner’s rival. The rival can be purely a fictitious. Once the doubt is sown in a partner’s head that they may really lose you they may find they are not as prepared to lose you as they think. It may cause them to rethink the situation..."

I was surprised to find that in there since this one is a much "softer" book than Homer's. Oddly enough this is consistent to what we were saying earlier.

[steady]

I have to say it. It's about rose colored glasses. This may come as a shock, but your wife isn't "all that and a bag of chips" and your marriage likely wasn't picture perfect prior to the bomb. If you were really honest with yourself, your wife is probably a fairly piss poor match at the moment. She's pretty self-centered and maybe has more than a few screws loose. Why shouldn't you do a little comparative looking around. I think it helps to see that. We need a little kick so we think, "why am I pining away for this woman. She's the one cheating and running around like a teenager. Why shouldn't she be chasing me?"

P.S. When I said "your wife", I wasn't talking about anyone in particulars wife.

Phoenix I have been thinking about this alot lately. Even though my W was unhappy in our marriage I was unhappy too. I just tolerated it more than she did.

I often wonder what I'm holding onto and why: My W? The R we could have and not the one we did have? Keeping my family together? Atonening for my mistakes? Avoiding the pain I see ahead/financial struggles/time away from my kids/the house we bought together?

At this point I really can't answer that question. There's a mix in there somewhere but as far as my R - it wasn't good for a long time, and it was really chity for that past year. What the heck am I pining for?

[RobD70]

I have to say it. It's about rose colored glasses. This may come as a shock, but your wife isn't "all that and a bag of chips" and your marriage likely wasn't picture perfect prior to the bomb. If you were really honest with yourself, your wife is probably a fairly piss poor match at the moment. She's pretty self-centered and maybe has more than a few screws loose. Why shouldn't you do a little comparative looking around. I think it helps to see that. We need a little kick so we think, "why am I pining away for this woman. She's the one cheating and running around like a teenager. Why shouldn't she be chasing me?"

P.S. When I said "your wife", I wasn't talking about anyone in particulars wife.

Phoenix I have been thinking about this alot lately. Even though my W was unhappy in our marriage I was unhappy too. I just tolerated it more than she did.

I often wonder what I'm holding onto and why: My W? The R we could have and not the one we did have? Keeping my family together? Atonening for my mistakes? Avoiding the pain I see ahead/financial struggles/time away from my kids/the house we bought together?

At this point I really can't answer that question. There's a mix in there somewhere but as far as my R - it wasn't good for a long time, and it was really chity for that past year. What the heck am I pining for?

I wonder this too. There was some good things about my W but there were some things I didn't care for either. She was far from perfect but she had enough good qualities for me stay. However I don't have many "requirements" for someone to be marriage material so it's not like someone else can't fill her shoes. That's hard for me to say but my W replaced me so what stops me from replacing her? I don't know 100% for certain the I will ever forgive her for her A and I don't think she's even ask me now that I think about it?

I still put my W on a pedestal but I don't know how long she'll stay there.

[steady]

I never heard of _____'s book. What's the title. I can't find it on an internet search. Thanks.

Also is this the _____' book? - It only takes one to get the ball rolling-save your marriage on your own - by _________.


RobD70, my W has alot of great qualities. But as far as my M/R is concerned I'm unsure of what I'm really holding onto - our R has been less than good for a long time.

I think the only way we could get together is to have our old relationship die, then look at each other and feel a connection and desire to start over. The old baggage has to go away. I don't know if that will ever happen. But in my work on detachment I have to be honest and understand what it is I'm actually trying to hold onto.

If I figure out it's something other than feeling that love that trancends friends it will make it easier for me to detach.

[RobD70]

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[Phoenixdeux]

Interesting points being raised by the discussion. Look at DB. First rule...do what works. The examples given are frequently nothing more than tricks (you be gone when he comes home). I see frequently the advice to not answer the phone or e-mail, which is essentially a ploy to give the impression that you are away doing something. You're supposed to "fake it until you can make it"; pretend you're happy. So, all this dissembling is fine, but not really dating? And, if we follow the rule to do something that works, and dating works, isn't that fair game in the DB rulebook? Just something to think about.

My thoughts:
1) I don't agree with pretending that your life is all busy and glamorous if it isn't. I don't agree with pretending you are doing something. You want your spouse back for YOU, not something you are not. Did Coach's wife come back to a make believe person and is now disappointed? I don't think so. Be happy with who you are, and if that isn't what your spouse wants, then why do you want them?

2) In a similar vein, I think that GAL should be things you want to do for yourself, without even worrying about whether you get a response of any kind from your wife. If you love woodworking, would you just ditch it if your wife showed disapproval? Get out and do stuff and if you are satisfied with the end result, then that's good enough.

2) I agree with Bill that time should be spent working on yourself. Part of this process is realizing that losing your spouse isn't the end of the world. You'll survive. I see no problem if during the time you are working to "make yourself happy for a change" if you smile at cute girls and flirt where appropriate.

3) Nowhere in this discussion did I see anyone advocating that you date in front of your kids. For one, even if divorced there is no reason to just throw the kids right into your dating life. Secondly, if visitation is being done, there should be times to go out without your kids being around or knowing about it. Third, I do think it's best to give it some time before you use dating as a tool. I think you have to be at a point in the relationship where you've accepted it's over, you aren't making progress any other way, you are comfortable with who you are and progress you've made, and you are willing to accept the possibility that someone else may take your wife's place.

[Coach]

They may object to the notion on their own moral and ethical ground (That is that it transgresses against their marriage vows and religious principles) and that is their right to do so and yours if that is how you feel.... but, many of these same people also erroneously believe or let their moral "stance" on the issue cloud their thinking, confuse their own personal disliking of the tactic and leads them to deny the effectiveness of the tactic....

Having a affair is a effective tactic to get your spouse to wake up to the issues in the marriage. It is very effective.
Cheating is a effective way to win at sports.
Fraud and blackmail are a effective way to make money.
Sorry my morals and ethics are clouding my judgement, I don't buy it.

Many will say that the tactic doesn't work, that it will backfire or will do harm to the relationship that they are trying to save...but this really is not true (although of course there can be exceptions I guess).

So is it true or not? If the author has to guess, makes me wonder.

it can be the absolute quickest way to get a partner (that is leaving you) to turn their head long enough to see what they may be losing...

Absolute leaves no doubt, yet the author uses the phrase "can be" to describe the effectiveness.

This article is full of double speak and contradictions.


How come there is no welcome to the female perspective on this thread? If they are the "opposition" wouldn't we want to know what their thoughts are? I know I only control me but having a great scouting report makes preparation a whole lot more valuable come game time.