Rob, you sound amazing and I understand about not being perfect. I hope you will allow yourself some slack and know that we all are going to backslide or make mistakes from time to time. However, when you told your wife that you did love her when she was so "needy" and asked you if you loved her.....that was okay and the way you handled it was fine. In fact, to have turned and walked away would not have been the thing to do. I look at it this way b/c I am looking from the viewpoint of a woman, of couse, but if she is good enough to have sex with....then......yes, you did the right thing. There is a time that a man has to be strong like steel and there is a time to be soft like velvet. Many years ago, I read a book called "Man of Steel and Velvet". The trick it to know when to be what! You can let her know that, yes you do love her but that does not mean you will allow her to continue the treatment she dishes out. You can even tell her that you probably will always love her, but we can love a person and learn to move on without them....and that is what she needs to understand. Not that you are threatening her, but informing her.....maybe even educating her. Even when you told her what you did while you were angry.....I would not beat myself up about that. It may have even made her stop and think about what you said. At least you showed self-convidence (lol). Again. I think you are doing super great and yes, I love this board b/c we can come here and spill our guts and yet keep our identity safe. It helps to get all this off our chest.
So, here is that long list that I told you about. Don't freak out about it. It is simply a short cut guide of DBing. I think that looking over it (after reading the book, of course) doesn't take as long as trying to re-read some chater in the book. It helps keep certain DB principles planted in our minds. BTW, this list is really designed for a person who is really trying to draw their spouse back to them and it can be for a couple who are under the same roof or separated, you just have to judge for yourself.
UDATED LIST
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off! 2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only! 4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject. 6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse. 7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self-confidence. 8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.) 9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better. 10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) 11.Do not declare "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.) 12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice. 14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go. 15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative. 16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also. 17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. 19.No matter what your emotions are TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. (Use balance here and don’t act like a fool trying to show “happiness”) This can confuse some of them (which is actually good) b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that. 20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf. 21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight. 22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake. 23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel! 24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works! 25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. 26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). 27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake. 28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only. 29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. 31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them. 32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared. 33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return. 35.Do not send TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary. 36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise. 37. NEVER LIE! When getting a life or trying to be mysterious….do not lie in order to be able to do it. You can be somewhat vague about what your plans are by not revealing all the details, but never even resemble lying to your spouse! Lying is not Dbing, so if you cannot carry out GAL on a particular time schedule without lying about what you are doing, then keep the trust and don’t lie to your spouse. 38. Do not keep company with the opposite sex. Do not turn to old friends of the opposite sex to talk to about your problems or just to hang out with them. This is not getting a life! This is not acceptable for a MR in trouble and could lead to you getting involved in an EA. If you cannot have your spouse present while you are with the friend of the opposite sex…..then you do not need to be with that friend. That includes any type of regular calls, emails, TM’s, etc., with friends of the opposite sex without the spouse present. You may not understand the seriousness, but it would be like pouring gasoline on a fire. 39. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I'm stealing pretty much every word of this Rob - just so you know!
You just described me to a T - W still has an impact on me emotionally, but I've done all the rest, and am actually sort of surprised when I grew some balls, and stood up to W. She has backed down on every occasion - because I have been firm and not to be moved, but fair and considerate. Basically, a man.
Like this alot:
Quote:
It's quite possible that without this marriage separation and how hurtful my wife was to me (and still is occasionally) that I would never have experienced the required stimulus to break out of my shell to become this person.
JD you're a riot, steal away, I'm glad you liked it!
Finally not being a doormat, having a sense of self-worth, finding your spine and standing up for yourself. Sappy? I think not!
Yeah, grab those books and the others I recommended to you while you are on there. I actually recommend "No More Mr Nice Guy" first, as it will give you a deeper understanding when reading the others.
- Thanks bro!!! Books have been ordered, I look forward to receiving them soon!
I have Divorce Busting and the Divorce Remedy, maybe I'm blind, but I haven't seen a list of this size with all these items in it (maybe it's just the critic in me, the book could have used a better format, when it said step by step, I was literally looking for a step 1, step 2, etc. ... again I'm very analytical).
Thank you very much for posting this list in my thread, it's invaluable to have all this information in one location, it saves have to do so much searching throughout all the forums for this info. It's really good stuff!!!!
DB doesn't really have steps, but DR does. It is 7 steps iirc. Each chapter is a step? Been a few months since I read it. Yeah, it is not exactly gonna hold your hand, but every page is valuable material if this stuff is foreign to you.
The collective experience of the people on these forums has really evolved a body of knowledge outside of the books, but rooted deeply in them.
Spellfire aka Mike
"Women do not like controlling men. They respect and are attracted to men who control themselves. They ultimately are repelled by men who allow themselves to be controlled." -S&A
This last weekend, my wife pulled a 180 from her recent good behavior and just started letting me have it. I didn't get drawn into the argument though, when she started using poor language and started saying hurtful things, etc. I pretty much let her know that I wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior and if she wanted to talk with someone like that, she would need to call someone else. She called several times, hanging up after a few statements each time and each time I remained calm, cool & collected.
I told her at the end, that she would apologize for all of the hurtful remarks she made. I didn't say she had to, only that she would.
After this weekend, I didn't call her once, didn't text her, etc. She has had the kids since Monday this week and I'll be picking them up tomorrow to have them for 4-5 days (we switch back & forth like this, it works, we live relatively close to each other and it gives us equal time with the kids, etc.) However last night my daughter had a dance class and we always attend those together, we just meet up at the school and watch our kid learn her hip-hop class. I came in @ 5 min. after class had started (traffic & crappy weather) and sat in the same area where my wife & son were. I looked at her and didn't say a thing, I wasn't mean, just silent. She said "Hi How are you", I gave a quick short response but didn't initiate any conversation, at the end of the night I told her I would pick up the kids on friday from school and have them and she agreed, again all small talk and nothing else. Very brief.
Apparently this morning while I was driving to school, she stopped by our home and was looking for some of the kids books. She called me several times, texted me several times, I replied to her call and she was moody asking me where these books were, I told her simply that I wasn't home, didn't know why she was there without letting me know first and that I didn't know where the books were and I had to go.
She texted me several times asking if this is my way of not talking to her because of last weekend's episode. After a while I texted back (I took my time) and let her know that I wasn't afraid to talk to her, wasn't hiding from her, I was busy and didn't have time to talk about where these books were (all of a sudden she is looking for books that have probably been sitting in a pile somewhere in the basement for months). It bothered her that I wasn't making myself available to her every whim, you could tell by the way she was talking (you can hear the needy "me, me, me" tone of her voice).
I have observed that when you stopped pursuing, don't communicate often & regularly with a spouse that has left. When the communication was previously regular & daily, it causes a vacuum. Her missing it may be an overstatement but I have seen this happen too many times now to shrug it off as mere coincidence. I'm not being an a$$hole to her, I'm just not making myself as available to her as I was when we were married and living together. Moving on, acting as if everything is fine, limiting contact, stopping pursuing causes a vacuum, changes the dynamic so that your spouse is pulled in.
I'm not being an a$$hole to her, I'm just not making myself as available to her as I was when we were married and living together. Moving on, acting as if everything is fine, limiting contact, stopping pursuing causes a vacuum, changes the dynamic so that your spouse is pulled in.
Anyone else see or experience this?
Everyone who had applied the principles correctly has seen some degree of what you have experienced, IMHO. There may be a case or two where the WAW was too far gone by the time the LBH began to apply the techniques that you have been given.
I am very excited about your work! I think you have just begun to get her undivided attention by making yourself unavailable to her. Now, what I am about to tell you is important so put it under you cap to remember (lol). Right now she is trying to convince herself that you are acting like this b/c you are upset at her for the way she talked. When some time passes or she apologizes for her talk, then continue on the path you are going so she will realize that the apology did not change you being unavailable to her. In time......when she begins to realize you are not trying to just act like....a you know what.....then you will be able to start showing more personality and charm when in her presence. And yet....you stay unavailable to her, and it drives her nuts! After some more time has passed and if things are a little more civil, you are showing a little more charm each time you see her and finally you can even reach a point that some light flirting is allowed.....but you are still unavailable to her.....and it drives her insane (lol). All the time, this is constantly drawing her closer and closer to you b/c she is attracted to you and wants you again! But you can't for a while, okay? Timing is everthing! You don't want to act cold etc. when you are around her......after some time has passed.....but you did perfect at the dance!! She will start finding excuses to call and email and TM until it will get almost funny. She will start trying to play up to you just to see if it works anymore. As I told you before....expect her to get her bag of tricks and pull out everything just to see if she can gain the control again. She wants that power! The less she has and the more unavaialbe you are....the more attracted she will be, and the more interested she will be, and the curiousity will eat her up.......(if you are a little mysterious about your getting a life!)
If you stick to the list I gave you as best as you can.....you will start to see a lot of changes. Things will start to get very interesting and increase by the day. You can come here and give us a play by play every night.....lol. Your part is to stay relax and trust the DB techniques. If you start to get mad.......walk away or hang up (whichever the case). Don't let her talk down to you when on the phone or in person.....walk away in her mid sentence or hang up the phone. That will piss her off to no end, but at the same time it teaches her a valuable lesson of respect for you! It won't take but a time or two before she stops doing that....if she has any brains. If she is very high tempered and use to getting her way....then it may take more lesson than for the usual person.... But stick with what you are doing. I am so proud of you!
I know you are pouring a lot of time into the kids and that is what you need to do b/c this is rough on them being thrown back and forth. They need all your affection and inforcing the feelings of security at this time. I'm sure you know all of this stuff. Anyway, what I was going to say is not to forget on the days you don't have the kids to do something for yourself in GAL. Don't do anything you will regret in the future. Remember you are still married. Don't lie about what you are doing, but you don't have to reveal your business to your W, either. You might say enough to sound mysterious if she asks questions....lol. Don't do like one man and misunderstand the message I'm sending out here. If you have any question about anything, please ask before doing.
Check on you later. Take care.
Sandi2
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
While I was out last night (gym, grocery shopping, life in general), I left my cell in my gym bag and she had called twice and texted at least 3-4 times asking where I was, if I was ok and if she could come over for a bit when she dropped for the kids because she wanted to talk.
When she dropped off my son, she had also bought lunch for him and brought it home and she picked me up something as well. She apologized for acting poorly last weekend, she tried to rationalize it by saying that I am limiting her con.
I told her that although I appreciated the apology, she continues to do the same thing over & over again. It's like this book we bought our kids a few years ago titled "I'm sorry", basically this kid keeps doing things and saying sorry and then at the end he's told that sometimes sorry isn't enough and if sorry isn't enough, he has to learn to do better. I told her that book was just as good for her as it was for the kids.
I won't tolerate that kind of behavior. Everyone can have a rough day and I can understand that (most anyone can for sure) but I told her she focuses that crap on me too many times for it to be coincidental and I'm just not taking it anymore. I appreciate the apology but actions are louder than words.
Hi robx, I'm new on here but have read through your thread a few times. My H is considering separation (we have no kids though) so I'm in the DB boat with you trying to do everything that I can. I too am sure that my H has not had any relationship with any other woman at this point, just needs to work through his own problems, so we'll see where this all ends up. I'll try to check in again soon. Keep it up!
lemonsnap
Me - 29 H - 29 M - 6 months T - 8 years ILYBNILWY - 1/24/09 Recovery begins 3/1/09
You can let her know that, yes you do love her but that does not mean you will allow her to continue the treatment she dishes out. You can even tell her that you probably will always love her, but we can love a person and learn to move on without them....and that is what she needs to understand. Not that you are threatening her, but informing her.....maybe even educating her. Even when you told her what you did while you were angry.....I would not beat myself up about that. It may have even made her stop and think about what you said. At least you showed self-convidence (lol). Again. I think you are doing super great and yes, I love this board b/c we can come here and spill our guts and yet keep our identity safe. It helps to get all this off our chest. 
But stick with what you are doing. I am so proud of you!