I just picked up S13 from school. He was crying & driving home through tears, he says "dad told me he didn't do anything wrong".
I'm not even mad.
Good for you but I'm mad damnit!
His interaction with the kids about your separation is confirms for me that you are the the right track.
A loving father would focus on the kids' feelings and reassure them that both of you love them and will be there for them and would keep the marriage issues between the two of you - period.
Instead he is selfishly focused on making sure his kid knows he didn't do anything "wrong".
" I've never once heard anything that implied she thinks it's "just gonna get better."
Originally Posted By: smartcookie
Once again I wanted to bail on counseling, just stop, be done. Doc said he'd see in 3-4 years then, cause we haven't handled all the zombies that refuse to stay buried. I threw the kleenex box at him. He pisses me off when he makes sense & I know he's right. Hugs.
This is one of those things that points to that fact. There were some of the same thoughts in her early postings. Not wanting to bend(Fight the Power).. could be seen that way. Why would you want to be "done" if counseling was helping? Are you not in just that thought.. hoping things.. "just get better"?
That's total crap...and you know it.
That statement was CLEARLY venting about wishing she could bail on counseling because it was so emotionally draining...and then admitting the counselor was right. She never did bail on counseling...she never intended to bail on counseling...and she never expected it to be easy.
Way to spin it though...you must have spent a little time trying to find that statement.
Quote:
"She works very hard at making it better...and has been for months and months and months."
Yes.. but so has he.. he has had some moments. Again.. who is "winning" here.. who is doing the better job? Why does that matter?
Well, her H seems to think that "winning" is what's important as opposed to creating mutual understanding. I think cookie doesn't need to win.
Quote:
In my mind.. there is a slightly better chance.. by staying together. Staying together requires more work. Remember "separating" never solves anything.
well it seems to solve being abused, because it's kind of hard for him to do it when she isn't in the same house. Slows him down a tad. Though then he just moves to manipulating the children instead. Classic.
Quote:
"It's clear in this sitch that he doesn't change unless threatened with catastrophe."
It's clear in this stitch that she cannot create change without a catastrophe.
Really read that.
You know...you make me laugh. really. My H could outcircle you in a circular conversation with one hand tied behind his back.
Quote:
"If it's an "empty threat" and not serious action...she will get more of the same."
Right now.. I am gonna say.. she gets that no matter what she does.
Hmmm...I'd really like to know how she's going to get more abuse separated from him.
"But it's par for the course that people tell women it's their job."
Your frame of Focus.. is very narrow. I usually post he same thing to the men as I do the women. I encourage the same behavior from them both. [/quote]
And yet...it's not the same. With all due respect, there is a lot to the dynamics about abusive relationships...and frankly, you aren't very knowledgeable about that topic. Also, sometimes one has to be "narrow" to be "accurate." That's how you hit a bullseye.
I'm truly upset for you and your kids (especially since I am nearing that point). Not sure why anyone would want to dissect your trek at this point and take your H's side, but I'm glad you take it like you do and let it flow off your back.
Whatever you and your H's issues are, I do know you've tried a ton - paid your dues in MC and IC, and countless hours here learning, and spreading your thoughts. My W was checked out when she told me she was "unhappy". We spent less than six months in MC and off and on IC for another three months before going back to MC so she could drop the bomb on me in our last session. I would give anything to have my W try as much as you did to make your M work and keep your family together.
I admire you and the work you've done. Even if we don't succeed in our M's, I know we all will grow in our selves and continue to give love to our kids and others that come along.
I only have one thing to suggest that I can't recall being covered so far.
when my h moved out I think we had different understandings of what separation meant. I believed I had communicated that we needed separation to work on our own issues. Due to some 'conversations' that we had when I was stressed he asked me "You dont' want to be married do you?"
I replied "No". Cos that's how I felt at that point.
I suspect he took me at my word that day.
Then a couple of days later he admitted that his initial ONS with some unknown woman was actually an EA with one time PA with a good fried of ours. And then he hoovered for about what felt like another week and then didnt' really try that hard after that. In fact, he got involved with another EA (which turned PA) which he kept secret from me for about 8 months. I suspect this occurred because he thought I was done. I wasn't done - I wanted us to work on our own issues. I was angry and hurt with him. He was hurt that I hadn't been there for him. He tried to self-medicate with work and other women. To be fair, he did get on medication, but rarely did he go to counselling and usually only at my request.
Anyway, my point is. I wonder if you need to make absolutely crystal clear to him that you're considering this a last ditch effort to SAVE your marriage - and not the first/second/third step to ENDING it. I am tainting this with my own experience, but I sense that my h threw his proverbial hands up in the air and thought that I didn't want to try. I did. I just needed him to recognise his abusive behaviour, acknowledge it and talk about it.
** Purple
As soon as you trust yourself you will know how to live. Goethe
I will assure you it is not crap.. simply because I thought about it.
"That statement was CLEARLY venting about wishing she could bail on counseling because it was so emotionally draining...and then admitting the counselor was right."
Clear to you.. not so clear to me.
What is "clear" to me.. is the pattern that SC sets forth in her posts. When things get hard.. she wants to bail. I was here at the start.. one of the very first people to post to her. We had many conversations. We have talked at length. I did not wake up this morning and decide I was gonna start some "drama".
So its OK.. that she wanted to just.. "run away".. then admitted he was right?
I am a firm believer in what you think.. will happen.
Everything that happens "here" is a "destination" of that thought that I hold close. The second you "think" about something.. someone can "see" it. In that.. yes you "create" something.
Your argument.. just points to the flaw.
The key words in your argument are.. "emotionally draining".
She got there because it was "emotionally draining". That does not excuse the thought. Anytime you say "I got here because".. that is crap!! She made the choice to get C.. I am guessing.. she never expected the work that would come from it. Kudos to SC for sticking it out. That still leaves me with the question.. will she keep going? After the separation and all?
"Way to spin it though...you must have spent a little time trying to find that statement."
Right back at ya.
"Well, her H seems to think that "winning" is what's important as opposed to creating mutual understanding. I think cookie doesn't need to win."
Really? I don't know that I would have gone that way with it.
Control is a much more.. appropriate word.
Codependency.. requires 2 people.. does it not?
It starts with 1.. and then involves the OP. The dependent.. "looks/finds" someone that will "feed" them. Before too long.. it is really unclear.. who is to blame.
The sad part about this.. is he is gonna fight it. He is already.. on his way. Any "changes that come from this.. are not going to be real.
"well it seems to solve being abused, because it's kind of hard for him to do it when she isn't in the same house. Slows him down a tad. Though then he just moves to manipulating the children instead. Classic. ;\)"
Again.. Really? If someone is "abusing" me.. and it is unacceptable. I am gonna leave. Again.. it is the POV.
I am 110% for sure.. if SC and H split up.. get separate houses.. she is gonna post about/FB about how he is still doing it. She already has.
I never said it was right for him to use the kids. You imply.. in your statement.. and me being a man.. that that is classic!
Here is a novel thought for you.. people use what they know.. to a "fault".
Argue that.
"My H could outcircle you in a circular conversation with one hand tied behind his back."
Would you be at the front of the circle.. or are you at the back of the circle?
"You know...you make me laugh. really."
Right on. You know.. I woke up this morning.. put on my pants.. giggled my stuff around.. and decided I wanted to create some "drama".
I did not walk into what I said blindly. If you think I am wrong.. so be it. I did not come here to stir you up. I came here because.. I think SC is doing things wrong. She has to be.
She has to be simply because.. she has no idea.. where she is going. Just ask her.
"Hmmm...I'd really like to know how she's going to get more abuse separated from him."
Get some popcorn.. and pull up a chair.
"With all due respect, there is a lot to the dynamics about abusive relationships...and frankly, you aren't very knowledgeable about that topic."
OK.. so whats your point?
You assume.. I am talking out my butt.
"Also, sometimes one has to be "narrow" to be "accurate." That's how you hit a bullseye."
One thing they teach you at.. sniper school.. or archery school.. or "whatever" school. Is never have a "narrow" view of things. You have to have a "big" frame of mind.. to hit that bulls eye. The person that can "see" everything that effects the "shot".. always hit the mark.
Watch the ball. What direction is the wind. Focus on your breathing.
You never.. focus on the target. The second you do.. you will miss.
SC.. I wish you the best in life. I just don't see this as being a smart decision. I don't think it is where you want to go. I am just being honest. If it is.. then so be it. I never wanted to be the person that "stood out" I want to be that person that says.. you can do better. You can be so much more. You have proven that. To me and my DAM mind.. I expected more.
You started it.. I am just holding you to it.
Take what you can.. leave the rest behind.
Cause somewhere in that.. you are doing "work".
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
Exactly. You ARE on the right track. You couldn't be more on the right track. NO MORE. NONE. NOW.
Good job. What you are now doing IS the way to handle an abuser. "This is what I HAVE DECIDED"
I do feel that although it's a difficult track, & there will be consequences, that it is the right track.
I realized today that H hasn't faced any real consequences as a result of the abuse all these years. That's why he still attempts it, even tonight.
Until he does, he has no reason to change.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
Thanks. I am feeling quite a mixture of emotions. But mostly overall, I feel a calm confident peace. This wasn't ever in my plans. It will be very painful at times, for everyone involved. I will be the villain to the friends, neighbors, & relatives that don't know all the details.
Even with all that & more, it's still the best thing for me & the kids. Hopefully time will tell that it was the right thing for H too.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
consult with him beforehand and discuss exactly what to tell them. This way he can't get all pissy and start whining about YOU wanting to leave.
When I kicked my W out of the house, it was the best thing for me to do for us. Now she's back home (albeit she still says we're separated) and I slowly see things turning around.
Good luck to you.
Stuck, thanks for the support. I appreciate it.
I had planned on telling all the kids together with H, & he & I discussing what to say first. Then D14 walks in late, & he spews at me "so you want to tell her right now". He told me the next night that he was trying to call my bluff. I guess he finally realized I'm not bluffing.
I think in hindsight, it was good to tell them separately. They each had their own concerns, & with two of the boys being embarrassed to cry in front of each other, it helped that they were alone with me & could sob. If there dad was there, they may have stuffed down their feelings. I'm not sure, just speculating. Just trying so darn hard to do the right thing by them.
I didn't realize you had kicked her out. I'll have to go back & read some of that (in my spare time). I'm glad things are turning around, even if it's slowly, it's still the right direction. Good for you.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
((((((((Kalni)))))))))) you are such a gentle soothing person. Thank you. We do have our own line in the sand don't we. When we've been mistreated for years & years, eventually any feelings e may have had for that person just can't be revived any longer.
xoxo
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
