DNO, LOL, you crack me up. When I have more time & energy, let's debate a few things. Until then, keep sharing your pov & I'll keep shooting you down.
Carlos, I'm so happy that you have a quiet, safe place. I look forward to the same. I experienced that feeling for 2 days when I went to the motel. I want more of that. I'm glad to see how good you're doing. You got dealt a raw deal. You came out smelling sweet. Nicely done.
FG, When I first arrived here, I was scared, lost, & confused. I am not any of that now. I am confident. I know exactly what I'm doing. I have grown tremendously. Counseling is a totally different experience for me. I wish I could sit back like Puppy & munch popcorn & enjoy the debate. One good thing that's coming out of it is Breakaway is gaining in assertiveness & being able to go toe to toe with you in verbal jousting. That's good practice for her with her H.
Speaking very generally & overall....... Breakaway has me pretty much pegged. What she said I meant about the counseling comment, she's spot on. She & I have talked hours on the phone, she knows where I'm at now, & where I was at a while ago.
<Why is it so hard for people to see, if a woman stays with an abuser, he doesn't change. If she leaves him, he may be encouraged to get help & change. He becomes a better human being."
<<Where did this thought come from?
My inner voice when I was praying.
Tonight, I have neither the energy or cognitive ability to respond to the big debate. But, I am reading it, & listening to both of you.
Breakaway, You are Feisty today woman !!! I love you. Keep it up, you're assertiveness is growing by leaps & bounds. Maybe it was the puke in the purse. You just said Enough is Enough !!!
<<She can only remove herself from the situation until such time as he decides he WILL take responsibility for his behavior.
Or, she can use the legal system to remove him from the home.
T, ditto buddy. How's her recovery going ?? Hugs
(((Jeff))) Thank you. I agree.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
I like how Forrest and others can be heartfelt honest with you even if it runs contrary to your path.
I am unable to post or share because I am still effected by your anger from many months ago. Or rather, I choose to be because I don't want that directed at me again. Weird, huh? How folks who were once close .. aren't... because of fear.
This is the last time I'm going to engage here...mostly because I don't have time for this. But I will respond to just a few things.
Originally Posted By: Forrest Gump
No you just seem to disregard the facts.
No, I understood what she was saying and what she meant in that quote. I think I'm in a better position to judge that than you. I've disregarded no facts.
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I will assure you it is not crap.. simply because I thought about it.
I see, so anything you've thought about is not crap. Some people think a lot about, say...scientology. But that's crap too.
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So its OK.. that she wanted to just.. "run away".. then admitted he was right?
Yes. Feelings are okay. Feeling like you just wish you could run away when you're upset, even though you know you are not going to do so, is a pretty normal feeling, too. I guess it's not okay with YOU though. So, the man has spoken.
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I am a firm believer in what you think.. will happen.
Everything that happens "here" is a "destination" of that thought that I hold close. The second you "think" about something.. someone can "see" it. In that.. yes you "create" something.
Well you're entitled to your opinion. I see you hold to it tenaciously...and are unlikely to say things like, "oh, I guess I misunderstood what you meant on that..."
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Your argument.. just points to the flaw.
The key words in your argument are.. "emotionally draining".
I wasn't making an argument. I was explaining what she meant by her statement. I was clarifying it for you, since her words aren't clear to you, as you stated. Or rather, any meaning other than your own interpretation, based on your firm beliefs, isn't clear to you.
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She got there because it was "emotionally draining". That does not excuse the thought.
Who are you to say that? About anyone?
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Codependency.. requires 2 people.. does it not?
Actually...it doesn't. A person who is codependent can have a whole host of behaviors and some of them may have nothing to do with relationships. As I said...you are throwing around such terms when you don't really understand what they mean. But you don't seem very interested in "understanding" anything here..just explaining to the poor addled masses what we are all really doing....victimizing our abusers.
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It starts with 1.. and then involves the OP. The dependent.. "looks/finds" someone that will "feed" them. Before too long.. it is really unclear.. who is to blame.
Mmm hmm. And then the codependent person begins to change that pattern...and say...I won't tolerate this behavior. And the rest of the "system" won't tolerate that. So Cookie staying and trying to "help" H along and trying to make him be a good husband and stop his abuse would actually BE codependent. As has been explained to you already.
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"well it seems to solve being abused, because it's kind of hard for him to do it when she isn't in the same house. Slows him down a tad. Though then he just moves to manipulating the children instead. Classic. ;\)"
Again.. Really? If someone is "abusing" me.. and it is unacceptable. I am gonna leave. Again.. it is the POV.
See this is where you really start to lose the thread of any sense of logic...again. He is abusing her...it is unacceptable...she is gonna leave. I can only surmise here that you are making a CLASSIC batterer enabling statement that if she hasn't left by now..well then, it really wasn't that bad, or she would have left before. Get educated please.
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I am 110% for sure.. if SC and H split up.. get separate houses.. she is gonna post about/FB about how he is still doing it. She already has.
Right. He will. But somehow I just think it's going to be physically impossible for him to abuse her the same amount if they aren't in the same household.
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I never said it was right for him to use the kids. You imply.. in your statement.. and me being a man.. that that is classic!
Actually you misunderstood me entirely. I never implied that you thought any such thing. My point was that the abuser will move on to the kids if he can't control the spouse...THAT is classic for the abuser/controller. Not you.
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Here is a novel thought for you.. people use what they know.. to a "fault".
Argue that.
Why would I argue that? You've illustrated it so beautifully in all of your posts.
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"My H could outcircle you in a circular conversation with one hand tied behind his back."
Would you be at the front of the circle.. or are you at the back of the circle?
Oh, I'm in the middle. It used to make me dizzy...trying to follow him..but that's gone away since I started ignoring it. I just see him more as...the Tasmanian Devil now...when he's in that state.
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"You know...you make me laugh. really."
Right on. You know.. I woke up this morning.. put on my pants.. giggled my stuff around.. and decided I wanted to create some "drama".
I'm sorry I broke the time-honored rule of not laughing at a man. I just got tickled because the way you contradict yourself just amazes me.
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I did not walk into what I said blindly. If you think I am wrong.. so be it. I did not come here to stir you up. I came here because.. I think SC is doing things wrong. She has to be.
She has to be simply because.. she has no idea.. where she is going. Just ask her.
Wow, I talk to her all the time. She's pretty strong and clear in her direction. I think you mean.."she has to be...because she isn't doing what I said." I'm sure her husband could really relate to that.
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"With all due respect, there is a lot to the dynamics about abusive relationships...and frankly, you aren't very knowledgeable about that topic."
OK.. so whats your point?
You assume.. I am talking out my butt.
My point is that you are not educated on emotional abuse, or codependency...while you insist that you are right and encourage a woman to stay in an abusive relationship..your comments repeatedly suggest that she is or could be abusive as well...that she's as much "to blame" (your words) as her husband...you want her to take responsibility for another person's behavior. My point is your advice is uninformed and DANGEROUS. And would be very harmful to a person who did not have the strength and support and growth that cookie has now.
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You never.. focus on the target. The second you do.. you will miss.
I'm late to this debate, and frankly out of popcorn, so at the risk of dredging up something that's painful, can someone tell me what the nature of the abuse has been, and if it's still ongoing?
Thanks. It's just that the word is central to the entire debate, and I want to be able to follow along.
The abuse was verbal & emotional. He was controlling, domineering, intimidating, and some-what chauvanistic, he was a bully and a tyrant.
It's impossible to put 15 years of it into one post, I'll just throw out some off the top of my head.
While traveling by car he would tell ME and the kids, we could wait to use the restroom. He would change the TV while I was watching it saying it was HIS TV & HIS room. He refused to take one of our boys to the ER when he was having breathing difficulties due to a reaction to medication. He would walk away from me when I was talking to him. Sex was 5 minutes long, & for his pleasure, if I didn't say yes, I'd get the silent treatment for 5-6 days until I initiated it. For years he refused to hug me when I asked. He refused my requests for physical affection saying it wasn't natural to him. When I tried to talk to him about being sexually abused as a child, he told me to "get over it". Years ago he punched past my face & hit the wall. He closed the garage door down on my car while I was trying to leave. We fought over money constantly. When I asked him to help with the kids in the evening, he was always too tired, & would yell at me about how he worked so hard, & was such a good husband & father, & what a good life I had, & I should consider myself lucky. He didn't have the energy to help bathe the kids, & read them a bedtime story. He refused my request for years to go to marriage counseling, saying we didn't need it.
Why did I stay. To prevent him from having solo visitation with the kids and because I didn't believe I deserved better.
I was severely abused as a child. I didn't realize I deserved to be treated with respect & kindness.
Most of it has stopped, most of the time.
There are some attempts still, at times, which are not tolerated by me.
I've seen the (three older) kids stand up to him now on several occasions. They can hold their own, most of the time.
I will never be a doormat again. To anyone.
He has changed, a lot at times, a little at other times.
Unfortunately, any love that may have been rejuvenated after his changes have been suffocated again by his controlling nature.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
And, this is the last time that I will post anything about him.
Now, if I post, it will be about me & my kids.
M 19 years, MC for 8 months, DB'd for 8 months 4 kids; 18, 15, 14, & 10 I was never meant to be a doormat. It took me years of therapy to become assertive enough to stop his abuse.
"FG, When I first arrived here, I was scared, lost, & confused."
So.. now you are "bigger" than that?
It is my "thought" that you are still some of that. I just don't think you are making a smart choice here. I have never tried to be better than anyone here. Even though it seems like it.
"I am not any of that now. I am confident. I know exactly what I'm doing. I have grown tremendously."
You told me all that.. in your first post. You were.. who you think you are now.. way back then. My perception of you has not changed. You are still that "person".
"One good thing that's coming out of it is Breakaway is gaining in assertiveness & being able to go toe to toe with you in verbal jousting. That's good practice for her with her H."
I am not here to be the jousting boy. I can jump in and fill that "need" if someone needs it. It will not and has not been productive.. in any way.. shape or form. It is totally "forced" for me.
"Speaking very generally & overall....... Breakaway has me pretty much pegged. What she said I meant about the counseling comment, she's spot on."
The issue was not what you said. It was how you reacted to the "stitch". Your reaction.. sets a pattern. That is all.
God Speed.. and Good luck to you.
I hope that you find the "happy" one day.
Cory.
Relax Eat Think Act normal React.. Smartly. Do something different. Emulate. Do Work.
