In the beginning I believe love is a feeling, hence, "love at first sight". Although, it was not love at first sight with my H. Matter of fact I didn't particularly care for him when I first met him. It took me a couple of years before I would even give him the time of day! Wow, things change!
After you have been with someone for a while you realize that the other isn't perfect like you initially believed. That is when I believe love becomes a decision as well as a feeling. I would think that most couples fall out of love at one time or the other, but "decide" to work hard to keep that love. Marriage is hard you have to work at it. Some just work harder than others.
Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. -- Bernice Johnson Reagon
Thanks Newgal. I think most of the spouses of people on this board would agree with your H. And as I remember the subject seemed to come up at each Retrouvaille Post session. Some spouses continued to argue that love was a feeling that one either had or didn't have and it couldn't be willed up by a decision. But those people did keep coming back, so I am hopeful for them. At least they were discussing it.
And Hope, you bring up a good point. Crossing the line. Is it love that makes us do it, or lust? That's a just as important question, what is the difference between love and lust? Surely, love takes some time to grow, like the Little Prince caring for his rose and his sheep. I think it is not love but lust that pushes people over the line. That is why thinking about these issues is important. What a mess this world would be if we all acted on impulse all the time!
I think that "in love" feeling is more than lust than anything else. It is all pure emotion. Sticking it out, even through the tough times, takes a conscious decision to love your spouse, no matter what.
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~ SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
I think that "in love" feeling is more than lust than anything else. It is all pure emotion. Sticking it out, even through the tough times, takes a conscious decision to love your spouse, no matter what.
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~ SMW
I told my W that I loved her unconditionally. I meant it. Even though she has been doing what she has been doing, I'm still having to work hard to consciously "choose" to shut those feelings off. Now, nearly 2 full months post-bomb, I'm still "in love" but I've told myself I'm in love with who my W was before the A. Gradually, I'm going to begin shutting down - because the betrayal, loss of trust, and hurt from her continuing actions is going to do more harm to any chance for reconciliation.
Eventually, when she realizes and attempts to initiate even a friendship, it might be too late. I recognize that... if she had come back within 2-4 weeks, I'd have accepted her with open arms... and we'd be right back in the same situation. Now, knowing what I know, and given what she is doing - I wouldn't accept her back unconditionally.
She will have to work to earn that trust, block by block, through months, or even a year plus of hard effort. But I'm talking about someone who has such low self-esteem she couldn't be bothered to talk to me about problems she was having. I don't hold out too much hope that she'll accept responsibility, show true remorse, and come back to the M.
So I'm choosing to let go. My feelings will fade, and eventually I'm going to choose to protect myself rather than open up to her again. I'm sure I'll always love her in a sense, but I can make the choice not to give her control in my life.
This was true love on my part... and I'm sure she loved me as well at one point. Maybe if it was true love she will begin to see her mistakes as the shine wears off the A. Or not. It is like watching a slow-motion train wreck. The train is too big for me to stop, but I know exactly what is coming.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
So I'm choosing to let go. My feelings will fade, and eventually I'm going to choose to protect myself rather than open up to her again. I'm sure I'll always love her in a sense, but I can make the choice not to give her control in my life.
That is how I have been feeling for quite some time. It is a choice to let go, yes. A healthy choice in some cases.
Falling in love may not even be a decision IMO. Loving someone through hot and cold, is. Up to a point. Because creating a fantasy and living in it, where no matter what the other person does, we continue to love and cherish our committement is... dumb. Love between man and woman needs to flow both ways. We cant be stuck forever maintaining our love for someone who treats us badly or is just absent.
In Greek (Hi NoCode) we say eros when it's strictly romantic kind of love, and it's the kind that can be result of an... accident (get in the way of Cupid's arrows aiming for someone else), LOVE is used to describe a deeper more solid feeling that doesnt necessary involve passion or lust. Parents feel love for their children as an example, or love between sibblings, the kind of love that endures anything...
Eros can develop to love, sure. And I guess in long term relationships that's the way it goes. But, in an marriage, the tricky part is to always have small doses of that kind of extra: the lust, the admiration, the excitement... And THAT takes a lot of work. K
It is wonderful to have an expert on Greek on the thread! I tried going to bed earlier last night, so i'm sorry I missed you when you wrote this.
This love stuff is so tricky. K, you make a good point about the difficulty of getting out of real love once you are in. That is a whole other side of the puzzle. It does seem that the trick is to just find that new person who titillates with love, lust, cupid's arrow, whatever it is. That certainly seems to work for the WASs.
It is wonderful to have an expert on Greek on the thread! I tried going to bed earlier last night, so i'm sorry I missed you when you wrote this.
This love stuff is so tricky. K, you make a good point about the difficulty of getting out of real love once you are in. That is a whole other side of the puzzle. It does seem that the trick is to just find that new person who titillates with love, lust, cupid's arrow, whatever it is. That certainly seems to work for the WASs.
For me it seems that would be a short-term fix. Most relationships, especially a first relationship post-divorce tend to have low survival rates. Then again - they are often described as some of the "best" relationships by divorcees.
I'm generally pretty good at detaching from my emotions... I was able to back off, go dim, and make a conscious decision to let W go her own way and follow her own journey within a month of the bomb. I'm making a conscious decision now to detach, go dim, and let reality work its way in.
She knows how I feel about her. I'm sure on some level she sees that as a safety net. I'm going to start removing that net... going to start moving on... going to start doing what I can to be happy for myself.
If she comes back, she'll come back to a changed person, someone who is positive, working hard, and trying hard. But she won't be coming back quickly - because I won't let her. If she asks to go to counseling, I'll tell her to wait a couple of weeks and make sure that is what she really wants. I'm not going to rush into anything.
This is the person I intended to spend the rest of my life with. I am still 'willing' to consider the possibility. But with OM, especially living next door - that is going to be a major investment on my part in order to forgive her if she ever comes clean. If she never comes clean, I'm just going to focus on moving on. I deserve better - and so do my children.
Love? I don't think you can just 'get out' of real love. I think you can hide it, I think you can push it down. But it is always there. I have an ex-W who was truly a horrible person, and who is literally in prison for the next 17 years. I still have 'some' feeling there, because she is the mother of my 2 boys.
Those feelings aren't at the point where I'd want to ever invest in even a friendship with her. But I don't believe that true love goes away. Real love endures. Real love is the reason a lot of us are here instead of saying "fine, get the heck out!" when our spouses are unfaithful.
But eventually that flame can subside... the embers eventually fade, and when not tended - it can be overcome by another flame.
If anything, a lot of us can learn something from what situation we've found ourselves. Love, no matter how true, requires maintenance.
"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
My favorite Pastor on the radio Bob Coy (Ft. Lauderdale area, I get it over the computer) did a series on the different types of love (eros, philios, agape) that was excellent. So did my local pastor (at the time) in Kansas City.
So many affairs stem from the eros love, it feels so good, so exciting. But the long-term love means having that agape, "I will wash your feet"-type mentality. At least, I think so.
There's trouble in my paradise. Oooops. I went too far. I take bellydance class with one of the top bellydancers in the country. So she put on an event called a "hafla" tonight at a latin dance studio. Tickets were $20. in advance and $25. at the door. I'd been to one party at this studio, and knew that they were overpriced for the quality of the food, so I decided to buy 2 tickets in advance to save the $10.
I told my husband a couple of days ago that I had bought these tickets for Saturday night, so not to plan our usual Saturday at the Greek restaurant (which we both enjoy, even though my kids say we are boring because we always go to the same restaurant).
Anyway, we get to the hafla. It is loud, dark, except for some extremely bright flashing lights that hurt my eyes, and the food is just OK, with not much choice. It's crowded, and loud, loud music. So we eat the food and my husband says he wants to go get a pizza. I told him fine, go.
That was about 8:45. So I stay and they do the first set of bellydancing. Most of it is students from my classes who are women with moderate skill, but not professional, and then some really overweight dancers from other studios. At 10 they took a break from the performances, and put on very loud Zumba music (which I really hate.)
So I go outside and try calling my husband. He doesn't have his cell phone and I don't know where he is. I go back inside and tell people that I've been abandoned. But my teacher's husband has shown up, and I start talking to him, so things got better. Then they say 5 minutes, the performances will start again.
Then my husband comes back and says he's been there for a while, but couldn't find me? Yeah, maybe. I was right at the table he left me at. So they start dancing again. Now we have some really fat dancers with veils over their faces doing a 10 or 15 minute Indian bellydance. It just goes on and on. My husband says he will wait outside.
4 more dances, and finally, my wonderful teacher performs. She is of course, wonderful, but with such bad lighting, who would know?
So it is 11:30. My husband pats me on the back and says "Are you ready to go?" I said yes, and we leave.
In the car he tells me that I am never to buy tickets to anything without discussing it with him, and he is very angry at me. So we rode home in silence. Now he is in the bedroom, watching tv, and I am talking to you. Don't really want to go into the bedroom.
I guess he doesn't want me to show him my new bellydance routine tonight. Funny, that usual gets him going!
