Charlie Brown Update

[LG nm12]

CB,

She needs to understand what's at stake. You have to talk. Talking is intimacy. You are lacking intimacy. She needs to know how much pain you are in, how long you have waited faithfully, trying to be everything she needs, desperately longing to connect with her emotionally and through ML. I vote for R talk.

The "I will never be able to please you" attitude comes when she is feeling too pushed. Your response is, "Yes you will. There is no need to look up at a mountain and decide you can't climb. Please don't be overwhelmed. We can take this slowly, as long as we have steady and consistent progress."

Don't initiate tentatively. When you want to ML, initiate with the intent that you are not monitoring her mood or willingness. Initiate with the assumption that there are only green lights. Let her say "no" -- Don't assume her "no" before trying.

She wants to please you and be a good wife, I would bet, based on her being a "good Catholic girl". I think she is afraid of intimacy, but I do think you have a good chance of guiding her through this. She needs to learn that sex is not a dirty expectation, but a joyous celebration of marriage.

Talk to her, CB. Don't avoid reality, don't avoid the truth. She won't break.

Lucky

[CharlieBrown]

Lucky,

Thanks, I will. Great advice.

CB

[CharlieBrown]

Lucky,

Didn't sit down last night to discuss my expectations. W said last night, with a smile "I don't want you to get too horned up, but if the doctor clears me Thursday, we should be able to do something Thursday night." This threw me for a loop because my initial reaction was to scream "NOT TOO HORNED UP!!! WE HAVEN"T DONE ANYTHING FOR 7 WEEKS AND YOU DON'T WANT ME TOO HORNED UP!!! TOO LATE!!!" Fortunately, I just said ok and knew that she probably meant well and saying anything else might ruin it. I still plan to talk to her tonight but am not yet sure how to bring it up or what I am going to say.

CB

[LG nm12]

Hi CB,

Good not to be reactive to her comments, but also good to take note of her comments. She is feeling pressured.

Could you be doing more in the way of non-sexual touch, verbal affirmation, and other gestures that tell her that you love her for her? What is she passionate about? What does she love? Do thoughtful things that show that you know her and love who she is.

She needs to be shown that you're not the enemy. That you're not just ready to take take take.

What are you doing for yourself these days? GALing works for sex-starved ones, too. The more interesting your life is, the more intriguing you will be to her.

Lucky

[CharlieBrown]

LG,

Was on the road yesterday and just saw your comments, thanks.

Two nights ago, I told W that after Idol (I am reasonable after all) I wanted to talk. She asked what about and I told her I would tell her then, which I could tell had her unnerved.

I said essentially that we had had two good talks in the past week (finances and household duties) and that I wanted to talk about our intimacy in our marriage. I told her that our "sexual sabbatical" over the past 7 weeks has given me time to think and that I wanted to talk about it before we just went back to the way things were (her doctor appt was yesterday to get cleared). I said that I love her and after watching some close friends go through divorce lately, it is important that I tell her what my expectations are of her and that we try to "divorce proof" our marriage. Here is what I told her:

1. That we have focused on ml in the past but I want us to focus on intimacy. I told her it bothers me that I am the one usually initiating kissing and touching and that I really hate it when she gives me a cheeck. While I don't want us to be a "shmoopsie" couple (I work with one of those, yuck!), I also said it is important that we both tell each other ILY.
2. Bedtime - I want to know when she is going to bed so I can join her (frequently she goes into the bedroom while I am watching tv and goes to bed without saying anything). This also means I need to get off my butt and come to bed much earlier than I am used to, but that is ok. Also, while I accept having a tv in the room, I want it on a lot less.
3. Rejection makes me feel unwanted and unloved. While I don't expect ml 7 nights a week, I do expect sometimes every week. If she is not going to initiate, fine, but when I do, I expect to normally not be rejected.
4. I would still like her to read "Secrets of a Happily Married Woman" because I think it would help her not only in this, but in other aspects of her life.
5. True intimacy is about giving and receiving. In our ML, if I want to go down on her, I don't want the ritualistic protesting then acceptance and I also expect for her to do the same to me from time to time.

She listened and acknowledged, but didn't really say much, except once when she said "we are never going to be perfectly matched in this" to which I said that no one ever is, I just want us to try as hard as we can.

Anyway, yesterday I get a text from her in the morning that the doctor totally cleared her and all day I am thinking about getting home and ravaging her. I get home and she got her period during the day!!! Now you know how I chose my screen name!!!

I have waited this long, I will have to wait longer, but in the meantime, we can start on the rest of the intimacy items.

CB

[LG nm12]

CB,

I'm glad you elevated the importance of the talk by scheduling it. Smart.

There is a lot of "expect" in your words to her. This doesn't sit quite right with me. You DO want to woo her and you want her to be willing and eager to ML with you, not just fulfill her wifely expectations... make sense? No woman HAS to give you sex out of duty. It is her body and only she can decide who does what with it. But, if your W CHOOSES not to participate in intimacy with you, then she should know that you need to make decisions about your future based on her decision. Not a threat... Just a reality.

Do something nice for her TODAY, not just on Mother's Day (but make sure you do something meaningful on Sunday, too,) so that she knows that you truly care about her and love the non-sexual parts of her too. What can you think of?

I sense that she didn't have much to say because she feels defeated. She really isn't in touch with herself with regard to intimacy. You, of course, can't *make* her explore within. But, with LOVING, patient communication, she may decide that it is important for her to take a look at herself and start reading and communicating more.

How is your communication otherwise? Is she able to share her thoughts and insights on other topics? Or, is she generally "closed?"

I can't help but wonder if her period is for real or a stall tactic.

Baby steps -- Don't push too hard!!! Loving communication... You need her to think more and talk more. Her saying that she's never going to be your match doesn't help anyone.

I'm glad you took a brave step.

Be sure to give her lots of non-sexual love this weekend, CB! I don't think it's time to ravage her -- not yet!! You need more insight into her mind. You need to know more about her fantasies and desires. THAT is intimacy.

Lucky

[CharlieBrown]

LG,

I understand your questions, but one of the things I said that I forgot to mention is that I don't want ml as a box to check, I want to feel wanted and loved and her actions make me not feel that way. I also used one of your lines (thanks for it) that I thought she wanted to be a great wife in every way and wanted to have a great marriage, just like I want to and so I owed it to her to tell her how I saw us being able to do that. the last thing I want is "duty sex" and there has been too much of that both offered and accepted in the past. I am not going to accept that any more.

She really does have her period (let's just say I am 100% sure).

As far as talking in general...my w is more the traditional male and I am more the tradidtional female in that I like to talk and express feelings and she is perfectly happy not. For example, when we have an argument at night I want to "talk through it" until I feel like I have gotten everything into the open. If I don't, I go to bed frustrated and the next day wake up even more frustrated. She, on the other hand, can go to bed and wakes up the next day as if nothing happened. I am the sentimental romantic and she is not, the list goes on and on...

I am going to focus on the intimacy stuff and see if she really was listening the other night. I think this is especially important when there is no chance of ml (neither of us is into period sex, btw).


CB

[LG nm12]

Hi CB,

So.... Has there ever been a time in which your W was able to emote and express her innermost thoughts? What is she passionate about? How can you tell that she is passionate about that?

It is important that you know what makes her tick, what revs her engine, and what it looks like when she is "into" something.

This may not be easy, but there must be something that we can examine to better understand her and to help you get closer.

Don't ravage. Don't push too much. Give her some time to process.

Lucky

[Bagheera]

Howdy CB;

The below is something I wrote some time ago, but is important for -all men- to remember in approaching their wives for sex.

Because our male testosterone levels are very high compared to women, sex (for most of us), is never very far "under the surface:" all it takes is a covert peak down our wife's blouse, watching her sway as she walks into the kitchen, or a touching smile on her face, for the desire for sex to strike us. And it's hard for us to remember that women aren't the same way. Women have much lower testosterone levels, and require significantly more MENTAL stimulation in order to spark that sometimes elusive -desire- for sex: this is especially true for mothers with children, who all too often get stuck in "Mommy-Mode" and have become very detached from their "Sexy-Wife-Mode." If you want to successfully spark her desire for you, you have to be smart, and mentally build her up to it.

I see four basic 'models' that husbands follow in initiating sex with their wives, some of which work better than others:

(1) The Indirect Approach: commonly used by oft-rejected, insecure husbands. This method usually takes the form of an indirect question such as "Are you tired tonight?" This leaves the woman having to first 'mind read' and figure out the question behind the question, and promptly puts the initiation 'ball' in her court without warning or warm-up. It's a turn-off for her, and rarely works.

(2) The Hand-Off: this is a more direct question, such as "Wanna go upstairs?" While certainly better than (1) it still plops the initiation 'ball' in her court without warning or warm-up, and can still be a turn-off, or more properly stated, it isn't a turn-on. Sometimes this works, and sometimes it doesn't.

(3) Seduction: Recognizing that women frequently need time and motivation to warm-up to the idea of making love that night, men should begin their seduction that morning, by emotionally connecting with their wives in non-sexual ways. Build up that connection throughout the day, and once the kids are off to bed, make those connections more sexual, i.e. more seductive. Be confident, and don't be in a hurry -- let her savor the warm-up period. For the husband in a sex-starved marriage, the above is very difficult to do. It means taking a risk, and making himself quite vulnerable to rejection yet again. But if you can find the confident nerve to do it, it will yield far better results for you than approaches (1) or (2).

Most women are content with seduction, but there are a few who would like their husbands to go a step further, and a bit 'darker' on occasion.

(4) Taking Her: even ignoring some initial resistance or refusal. Doing this requires a DEEP bond of trust between husband and wife, and some careful pre-arrangement: as SillyOldBear points out, this does get you into 'rape' territory, and BOTH partners need to feel protected and safe in the arrangement.

Three things are a MUST in order to use (4), and need to be discussed openly outside of the bedroom:

(a) The wife must approve of and verbally consent to this form of approach for her husband. In most cases, it really ought to be the wife's idea to pursue this in the first place, NOT the husband's. Thus, permission is indeed given, but well outside of the act.

(b) A safe-word must be established, usually silly, easy to remember, short (usually two-syllable), and completely unrelated to anything in the bedroom: such as "French Toast!" If at any point in the process the wife uses this safe-word, it means GAME OVER -- STOP IMMEDIATELY: i.e. permission is removed. In addition, any particular 'hard' boundaries need to be openly discussed and agreed to ahead of time (i.e. "Never do XXXX to me").

(c) Trust. The wife must be able to trust that her husband, at ALL TIMES, will respect her boundaries and monitor her physical (and mental) safety --> if the safe-word is used, or even if it isn't but he still feels like a boundary has been potentially crossed, then he stops immediately...period. The husband must trust his wife to monitor herself and inform him immediately if a boundary is approached: he is trusting her to keep them BOTH within the acceptable limits.

As I said, this is an exploration of the 'darker side' of human sexuality, and isn't for everyone. For most women, they're probably better off with this just as a fantasy, and it is not something they would want to adopt in their actual relationship. I definitely WOULD NOT recommend it for a strained relationship, where the bond of trust and the emotional connection between husband and wife are both weak. This ONLY works for a couple with a strong emotional connection and a very high degree of trust between them.

I also recognize that (4) is a very politically-incorrect topic to even bring up, so hopefully I've covered it in a responsible manner.

Best regards,

Bagheera

[CharlieBrown]

B:

I have typically been in #3 and somewhat #2. I'm sure I have done #1 at some times, but I think truth be told, I have self-censored and tried to read her signals rather than even ask the question (that would probably be a .5 on the list).

I think there is another option between #3 and #4 that is what I am striving for. I will continue to be a romantic and understand the importance of being seductive and getting her motor running throughout the day and evening, but doing so with an expectation that goes somewhere beyond optional and somewhere less than taking. In the past, I would do all the things to get her motor running and when it didn't happen, I would get frustrated and ultimately angry. I need to control that, GAL, but also make sure she knows it is not acceptable and she needs to reciprocate or problems in our marriage are going to get worse. After all, if she is not going to initiate, I can live with that, but she can't have that and reject me because that leaves us no options.

I would like some suggestions on a sitch this morning. We have not ml for 8 weeks, which is an all-time record. I was ok with most of it because it was medically needed, but I asked her in bed last night (too late, just when we were both falling asleep) when her period was going to be done. She replied that it "pretty much is" and we fell asleep. I am leaving tonight to travel until Sunday night and I was thinking of heading home early for a mid-afternoon ml. I could get home about 2 and she needs to go get the kids at 3. I am thinking of sending her a tm this morning to start her engine, but want to do it in a way that tells her I expect this and it isn't just a suggestion. Any ideas for content?

CB