Do you not think that it is possible that a LBS can have respect and confidence while still not condoning the A and still offering friendship - without being a doormat of course!?
Yes I think what you suggest has merit. The boundaries and self-respect would be key to maintaining your own well being. The friendship you are describing is kinda of how I imagine you would deal with a family member get thru a addiction. Non-enabling, consistent, patient, confronting bad behavior, let them deal with consequences, detached and there to offer appropiate help when asked. This would be a very one-sided R for a while. Magnifies the need to take care of yourself plus that would modeling great self-care. When you love like that be prepared for some push back from friends and relatives. Knowing what you want, what you can handle and willing to give is a powerful statement. Cheers
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Do you not think that it is possible that a LBS can have respect and confidence while still not condoning the A and still offering friendship - without being a doormat of course!?
Yes I think what you suggest has merit. The boundaries and self-respect would be key to maintaining your own well being. The friendship you are describing is kinda of how I imagine you would deal with a family member get thru a addiction. Non-enabling, consistent, patient, confronting bad behavior, let them deal with consequences, detached and there to offer appropiate help when asked. This would be a very one-sided R for a while. Magnifies the need to take care of yourself plus that would modeling great self-care. When you love like that be prepared for some push back from friends and relatives. Knowing what you want, what you can handle and willing to give is a powerful statement. Cheers
Coach--
I am hoping that I am living my life according to this post.
Living God's blessings with grace and dignity~ SMW
M40/H36 T16/M14 4K B2/08 S4/08 current
Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. I Corinthians 13:7
Hopefully Coach will have some insights about the respect issue...
Respect falls right after the trust. I break one of the values in a R then I lose respect from the other side. This is when you need to know what the deal-breakers are for you. Ways to cope: not keep constant score, forgive (forgiving isn't forgetting), see from your spouses perspective.
Respect is very much a valued aspect of what a husband wants and even needs at different times from his W. Men very much want to be admired by their wife. Having respect for each others time, feelings, thoughts, ideas, dreams, money, work, love, space, and spirit. Respect is another form of validating. It says you matter to me. If I disrespect you I am discounting your time, feelings, thoughts........
So in the recipe for friendship (M, lovers, partnership) we need to include respect.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
It just seems like such a mindf*ck. If I can't be "friends" than I'm bitter and I'm not stepping up. But I am still stuck on what the point is of divorcing if two people are "friends" and have the history, the love, the kids etc. Just seems like a shame to me.
I'm going with the day by day and I reserve the right to change course on an as need basis.
Hi Alive and Kicking,
One of the points that I was trying to make in my long, theoretical analysis is that I think it is impossible to be friends until you have stepped back and worked on yourself for yourself.
At first, you have to detach just to protect yourself and give yourself space.
Then you have the OPPORTUNITY to work on yourself. What are the things that you brought to the R that contributed to it falling having trouble? What are the things you need to work on so that you can be happy with yourself? What are the things about yourself that you don't want to bring forward into your next R? Work on those. Make yourself strong and happy with yourself.
Only after you have done that can you handle the pain of trying to rebuild a friendship with your WAS, and only after that would you be building a friendship that is actually attractive to your WAS.
Good luck and stay strong. I know you can do it, but I know exactly how you feel. A few months ago when my W broached the subject of D and being friends afterwards, my initial reaction was "No F***ing way!". I couldn't even think about it, and my reaction was that if we were to get D'd, I would want to get as far away from her as possible. Now I am stronger and happier with myself (but no where near being done), and I can think rationally about being friends. I still have a long way to go, however.
So, my recommendation is not to try to become friends yet - back off, give yourself space, and work on yourself - for yourself.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
Yes, I think I am getting ahead of myself. In order for me to feel respected, I would have to accept a new paradigm. Right now, I am too attached materially and emotionally and so are my children. We have so many logistical issues to navigate.
Coach - on the issue of respect. The WASs behavior is so glaringly disrespectful and self-centered, even in cases of extreme need (see other poster who was in the hospital and still had to deal with ex's malarky)...I have a hard time understanding how any R with any degree of sanity can be managed.
I suppose as with addicts, sometimes a line has to be drawn, boundaries implemented.
I think that my resistance regarding this topic is that it is exhausting. It feels like an endless outflow on my part...and the energy suckage of the WAS seems so inappropriate.
There are such diverse views on this. I do find it interesting. I have unfortunately skipped so many steps and am now in a sort of light friendship with H. But with friends like him...you know, who needs enemies?
Do you mean how in the mechanical sense? How to approach, how to do it?
Or how in the higher order sense of how does one cope, justify, etc.?
Yes!
how to mechanical - DB techniques, paying attention to LLs, validating, listening, true giving, self-care Take away what the objections. Your S knows you better than anyone else most likely they see all you highs and lows, quirks, weaknesses and flaws. Some of their issues with us are valid and should be addressed. So if I take away the objection, work on myself and am loving in return I risk nothing. Right now aren't all the LBS loving their WAS? The hurt is what keeps us focused on ourself. The hurt is caused by fear and other negative emotions. Once you stop hurting what are you left with? It's just you - alone. Yes, you have a support network but they didn't take the pain away. Stop the pain and you can start thinking. If I had a great M what would I be doing? Begin with the end in mind and plan backwards to now. Knowing who you are, what you want and what you are capable of (and keeping a growth mindset) is how you fill in the higher order issues. This is your core values, NUTS, purpose, beliefs, soul, and essence of being human. Each of has a choice on how we play out our sitch. Don't control the outcome but we control our actions. I have surprised my W (me too) with my writing but it has helped me think. I was never one to write my thoughts or feelings down, I didn't think I had anything to say. I found my "voice" here. I wrote this in my journal (180) last August, it clarified my how and why I was acting the way I was.
Quote:
Day of reflection and revelations. Not a new thought but it is for me. This crisis in my life is not what I want but it's what I have been dealt. It will be the defining moment of the middle of my life. So I have to play it the way a great man would. Be true to myself, love my kids, honor my marriage, continue to love my wife, take responsibiliy for me, be a warrior and honor the Creator
If I get to the Pearly Gates and I can answer that, "Yes, I did those things to the best of my ability." Then I will have lived a happy and fufilling life. The journey is all about what you do - for yourself and others. Strength and Honor. Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Wow, sometimes I think men stepping up and doing this is so striking and so demonstrative of change that it is hard for it not to attract the W back. Whereas women are almost expected to assume this posture...or it is seen as coming more naturally to them.
When I read some of the posts of the men I think "only fool would leave him." Mostly because it is such a stretch and departure from what the average guy will do. And the thoughtfulness, reflection, writing, energy output, wow.
I think that as a woman, I feel small and mousy looking toward being one of H's many "friends." I'll need to really bolster my own self esteem and make sure I am not feeling so used.
I feel small and mousy looking toward being one of H's many "friends." I'll need to really bolster my own self esteem and make sure I am not feeling so used.
I understand. I have felt the same way.
Switch your paradigm.
I think you currently see being friends as reducing yourself from being your H's partner (ie 1/2 of "Him") to being only one small part of him - a large reduction in status and in self.
Stop thinking that way (I know, it's hard...)
Think of yourself as the center of your universe. 100% of it.
Start there and grow it.
Think of yourself as being so large and strong and self aware that you have excess left that you can give to him in friendship. You can't really be his friend in any other way.
You are the center and he is only a small part of your universe right now - not vice versa!
Last edited by Thinker; 06/02/0902:51 PM.
Me 42, W 39, S8, S6, S2 M 11y, A & ILYBNILWY 11/08 Walking away from a bad situation.
I feel small and mousy looking toward being one of H's many "friends." I'll need to really bolster my own self esteem and make sure I am not feeling so used.
I understand. I have felt the same way.
Switch your paradigm.
I think you currently see being friends as reducing yourself from being your H's partner (ie 1/2 of "Him") to being only one small part of him - a large reduction in status and in self.
Stop thinking that way (I know, it's hard...)
Think of yourself as the center of your universe. 100% of it.
Start there and grow it.
Think of yourself as being so large and strong and self aware that you have excess left that you can give to him in friendship. You can't really be his friend in any other way.
You are the center and he is only a small part of your universe right now - not vice versa!
Thinker- You are REALLY helping me. Thank you. I am actually jealous of your wives that they have husbands that are so thoughtful and give this much of a sh*t. It is all I wanted from my H and I was close to walking away myself (at least fantasized about it.
You hit the nail though. I feel that H is center of the universe and I need to create my own universe. My instinct is that he really needs to be center of the universe and will have to find someone else to fill his void...perhaps that is part of my resistance. I see a path to a healthier me but no clear path back to an "us." Just painful but it is what it is.
