Hello Kittyfish & Sandi2!

[BigJohn]

[quote]
What she doesn't know, is this OM probably spends his life playing on women. There is no telling how many women he is stringing along at the same time. I was told that about my OM and I would not believe it. It seemed so sincere! Yeah, right! Now, I believe that that is how he past his evenings away was on line with other women when I wasn't available. There were little signs that I begin to see but did not want to admit. She will too. The problem is if she'll try to find another man.

Sandi,

I agree completely with your read on my W's OM- I think eventually he is going to lose interest when the "thrill" starts wearing off. I'm presuming that if/when OM does dump my W, I'll probably see her experience the grieving process- but what if I don't? What if the feeling between her and OM is mutual and they both get tired of each other? What then? Just wondering if I will need to be alert to any specific indicators that may signal a need to change up what I am doing.

Thanks for checking in on me. I really appreciate your feedback and support!

[BigJohn]

Hey Thinker,

I noticed in your sitch that OM "fled" on 2/09 and that you are currently still in Limboland. Just curious as to how the dynamics of your R with your W have changed since OM got out of the picture. I ask because I think I'll be facing this at some point in my sitch as well. Did your W grieve after being dumped by OM? Looking back, was there any window of opportunity that may have been seized at the time OM left that might have turned things around for you and W rather than your R with your W going into Limboland?

I'm concerned about the possibility of OM dropping my W then my W starting to search for a replacement for OM, perhaps here locally. As I mentioned in an earlier post, my W has told both me and OM that she will find someone "just like him (OM)" if it doesn't work out with him (OM).

[sandi2]

What if the feeling between her and OM is mutual and they both get tired of each other? What then? Just wondering if I will need to be alert to any specific indicators that may signal a need to change up what I am doing.

Well, that does happen! They may go as far as to get M. That is a reality that you have to face. "If" you stick with dropping the rope, then you won't change anything b/c you will be on your way to a new life. "If" you truly drop the rope, I don't think you will be observing her close enough to even know if the status in her R with OM is intensified or if it's failing unless she tells you that they are getting M or have broken up. That is the point of dropping the rope is that you are not involved with her personal life. You don't think about it b/c you have moved on and have you own life.

It will soon be apparent if you truly have dropped the rope or not. It is all about "attitude" and your thought process. Your focus on her drops and your attention is on other things. That's why it has to come from within you and not be an "act" or a "tool" to get her back.

I sure hope you can do it. Almost all the LBS think that they can't at first, but in time they discover that is the only route to survival and keeping their sanity.

Talk to you later,
Sandi

[Kittyfish]

You're getting great advice here!

[sandi2]

Your focus on her drops

Apparently my mind and my keyboard were in two differnt places. I don't know what the heck this is suppose to mean!

[BigJohn]

You're getting great advice here!

I agree, Sandi is outstanding! Although I would like to hear more about your experience Kittyfish. As I recall, unlike Sandi's experience, there wasn't much your EX-H could do once you had decided you were "done". Thinking back, was there really NOTHING he couldn't have done to save your M? Did he pursue too much or not put in enough effort to work on his own issues? Did he not give you enough time to work things out on your own? Just curious as you and my W are close in age.

[tryingtilDorR]

BigJohn,
I just discovered your threads and I am in a very similar situation, except that my W's OM is not in another state unfortunately. However, is is also an old HS friend and she is kind of going through what my IC calls a 're-do', which sounds like what your W is doing also. You are so lucky that they are geographically separated.

My W hasn't gone as far as yours in admitting the impact of the EA on her. She has made many contradictory commemnts, howver, like saying she had feelings for this person but then later trying to deny she said it. Lately she has toned down the contact with OM but it is still there. My boundary was no more contact EVER, and she then chose to sleep in another room because she could not promise no contact ever (they are 'friends' and she was planning on calling him after he had surgery, etc. etc.). She is only here for her kids and hasn't wanted to really work on R sine EA started last Nov.

Many of the other things your wife has said to you match my situation completely, but she hasn't been 'flaunting' the fact that she had/has an EA (she has trouble even calling it an A). I also exposed it to her family and close friends to her dismay, but they have firmly remained in my camp on all this and think she is nuts (I think this helps keep her from running).

Here are things I have done during this process that you should think about if you haven't already -

A) GAL - exercise, weightlifting, cycling, volunteer work
B) Many positive changes in myself as a result of IC and other learning htat would make a huge differeence in our R if she ever returned to it - W resents most of the change because its 'too late'
C) detatching to some extent, but we still argue about EA/OM especially after I re-discovered that EA was still happening about a month ago. I am working on this. I am starting to accept that I can't control her OM interactions. She claims she doesn't talk to him but I know texting is going on.

It sounds like you have the ability to monitor her to some extent since it seems like you know when she is in contact with OM? That is a good thing. I monitored W for a while, but when I re-discovered EA a month ago I lost the motivation since I realized she is going to do what she is going to do. I viewed it as a way to detatch.

If your OM was local, or if your wife had the ability to make a good living on her own I think she would be gone based on how open she is about her feelings for OM.

My W can earn a good living if she chooses to work full-time and I think that is one of the remaining things she is trying to figure out - is it worth it to leave and have to work more? So far the answer seems NO but it is hard to tell what they really think. Also, the disapproval of her family is another factor.

Question for others - Does talking about a divorce settlement in detail a good drop the rope technique? I have been getting so frustrated that I want her to start facing the end game to see if that is what she really wants, so I had seen an attorney.
BigJohn - I suggest you do the same if you haven't already?

[sandi2]

Question for others - Does talking about a divorce settlement in detail a good drop the rope technique?

NO! And.....that's not dropping the rope!

[tryingtilDorR]

After I asked the question I knew the answer. I guess if I am doing it because I truly want the divorce it would be, but if I am doing it to get her to face the edge of the cliff and make a decision I am being manipulative??? In that case I guess I haven't 'dropped' anything.

[BigJohn]

BigJohn,
I just discovered your threads and I am in a very similar situation, except that my W's OM is not in another state unfortunately. However, is is also an old HS friend and she is kind of going through what my IC calls a 're-do', which sounds like what your W is doing also. You are so lucky that they are geographically separated.

My W hasn't gone as far as yours in admitting the impact of the EA on her. She has made many contradictory commemnts, howver, like saying she had feelings for this person but then later trying to deny she said it. Lately she has toned down the contact with OM but it is still there. My boundary was no more contact EVER, and she then chose to sleep in another room because she could not promise no contact ever (they are 'friends' and she was planning on calling him after he had surgery, etc. etc.). She is only here for her kids and hasn't wanted to really work on R sine EA started last Nov.

Many of the other things your wife has said to you match my situation completely, but she hasn't been 'flaunting' the fact that she had/has an EA (she has trouble even calling it an A). I also exposed it to her family and close friends to her dismay, but they have firmly remained in my camp on all this and think she is nuts (I think this helps keep her from running).

Here are things I have done during this process that you should think about if you haven't already -

A) GAL - exercise, weightlifting, cycling, volunteer work
B) Many positive changes in myself as a result of IC and other learning htat would make a huge differeence in our R if she ever returned to it - W resents most of the change because its 'too late'
C) detatching to some extent, but we still argue about EA/OM especially after I re-discovered that EA was still happening about a month ago. I am working on this. I am starting to accept that I can't control her OM interactions. She claims she doesn't talk to him but I know texting is going on.

It sounds like you have the ability to monitor her to some extent since it seems like you know when she is in contact with OM? That is a good thing. I monitored W for a while, but when I re-discovered EA a month ago I lost the motivation since I realized she is going to do what she is going to do. I viewed it as a way to detatch.

If your OM was local, or if your wife had the ability to make a good living on her own I think she would be gone based on how open she is about her feelings for OM.

My W can earn a good living if she chooses to work full-time and I think that is one of the remaining things she is trying to figure out - is it worth it to leave and have to work more? So far the answer seems NO but it is hard to tell what they really think. Also, the disapproval of her family is another factor.

Question for others - Does talking about a divorce settlement in detail a good drop the rope technique? I have been getting so frustrated that I want her to start facing the end game to see if that is what she really wants, so I had seen an attorney.
BigJohn - I suggest you do the same if you haven't already?

TTDR,

Others such as Sandi have also commented on being somewhat surprised regarding my wife's openness. It's because she and I have always had open communication and trust in our R. Ironic I know since her EA has breeched that same trust and many of her complaints about me apparently relate back to ineffective communication between the two of us. But that is the bizzaro world we find ourselves in I guess. One point I want to clarify for everyone is that my wife is not openly flaunting the EA. What she IS doing, however, is currently refusing to end the EA and essentially being rebellious.

1. GALing: Been lifting weights and exercising two weeks every day since discovery of the EA. Dropped over 35 lbs. and feeling/looking great. Dusted off my motorcycle and have been riding with my sons every weekend. Spending lots of time with my kids playing and having fun.

2. Like you, am reading or have read several M books. I too will be in a good position to work on my MR if/when my W is ready to do so.

3. Working on detaching. Getting better with time. We haven't argued or had a R talk in over two weeks now (my prior threshold for NOT doing so) and am looking to continue extending that streak. I think the next time we have an R talk, she'll have to initiate it.

Like you, I can only monitor her to a certain extent. Probably my best tools are how well I knew my "old" wife and her behaviors as well as my own observational skills. For example, right now I've noticed that she has been depressed and moping around since about last Friday. I'm not aware of anything else that could provoke this type of reaction from her other than problems with OM- some discussion they had around Friday that went sideways. I hate to see her unhappy but these days it's always a good sign as far as me and the kids are concerned.

At this point, my W has done virtually NO due diligence regarding D at all beyond a few conversations with a few previously D'd girlfriends. She really does not have any idea the extent of devastation that a D will bring, nor do I completely believe she really wants to know. After all, that would be acknowledging REALITY and as we all know, REALITY is poison when you are trying to live a fantasy.

Regarding your question about discussing a divorce settlement with your W, I agree with Sandi, that isn't dropping the rope. Personally I have decided that if my W wants to seriously entertain D, I'm going to let her learn all of the ugly details by herself. In fact I've told her not to take my word about anything I tell her about her EA, about D, etc.- she can verify it all by herself.

Regarding seeing an attorney, I happen to work with attorneys on a regular basis in my job so I have had some informal discussions- and learned enough to know I definitely don't want a D!