Going straight forward...antlers 5th thread.

[sandi2]

The LBS is in a state of hurt confused emotions. If he/she acts out of "that" truth, then everything that could go wrong, will go wrong. Of course acting "as if" may feel fake b/c one's emotions are not on the same wave as the actions, but the point is to "act" like you need to be acting and eventually the feelings will catch up. Few LBS "feel" like detaching from their WAS. They want to "cling" for dear life, but we know that is the worse action for them, so we advise them to detach. Do they want to? No! Do they feel they are being counter-productive? Probably! Does it work? YES!

The reason I jumped on this subject was not to lash out at Antlers (if it sounded like I did) b/c I have read enough of his posts that I thought he was pretty sound in DBing. He has given great advice to Newcomers! The statement I read concerned me b/c I've read things like that from other posters in the past and I wanted to nip it in the bud if there was some confusion about it. I wondered if something had been said to get him turned around and questioning DB. Anyway, Antlers has assured me that I misunderstood what "he" said about it. However, if there are any others reading this that may doubt that the DB techniques are not completely honest, then I would like to discuss it farther with them and they can come to my thread on the "Piecing" forum at Sandi's Place. I think everyone here agrees on the foundation DB is built upon.

Thanks,
Sandi

[antlers]

A few close friends who know my situation don't understand the way I'm living. We've been physically separated since February, so we're going on 5 months! I'm living my life, and she's living her life! Nothing legal has been filed. The only communication that we have, mostly, is texting with each other occasionally concerning the kiddos. Feels like nothing is happening...but again, as has been said here before, sometimes 'doing nothing' is 'doing something'! It is what it is, and I'm not really in a position to do anything other than what I'm doing right now...even if others don't understand it. She still has lots of anger towards me, which shows up occasionally. I don't know what the future holds. I'm just DB'n, and working to be the best man and best father I can be. Don't really know what else to do under the circumstances right now. I'm gonna take all 3 of the kids horseback riding on Thursday, and our little kids will come back to me tonight and stay with me for the next 3 nights...so I'm looking forward to that. Anyway, that's it for right now. Hope all are doing as well as they can under the circumstances. Strive to thrive!

[antlers]

I work 36 hours a week, in 3 12 hour shifts. She works 5 days a week. We each have the kids for 7 out of every 14 days. So we each have the kids 50% of the time. We've had these communication problems regarding time off and vacations. I texted her today to let her know about some time off that I'm putting in for in early August. She's already said that she can't take off the first half of the month because of her job, and the end of the month is the best time for her to take off. Anyway, I said...

Wife,
I want to turn in a request for some time off during the early part of the
month of August, before the kids have to go back to school. I'm looking at
Wednesday, August 5th thru Wednesday, August 12th. Just wanted to let you know.
Thanks

I get the following back from her later on...

You know you can't just have them most of the summer. You already have them all
day on your days off.



I have our kids on my days off, and I take them back the night before I have to go back to work the following morning. I get them back after I get off work 2 or 3 days later. We each have them for 7 out of every 14 days...but she has a problem that I'm not working on the days that I have them, and she is working on most of the days that she has them...except she is off every weekend. I'm off every other weekend. I only work 3 days a week...that's the way my job is. She works 5 days a week...that's the way her job is.

I'm trying to have more clear communication with her regarding the kids, time off, vacations, etc. How should I respond to her text...or should I even respond to it? I think she gets mad because I've taken the kids on a couple of nice vacations this summer (I've posted about it on this thread).

Anyway, any help or feedback/advice from you folks woild be appreciated!

[antlers]

I work 36 hours a week, in 3 12 hour shifts. She works 5 days a week. We each have the kids for 7 out of every 14 days. So we each have the kids 50% of the time. We've had these communication problems regarding time off and vacations. I texted her today to let her know about some time off that I'm putting in for in early August. She's already said that she can't take off the first half of the month because of her job, and the end of the month is the best time for her to take off. Anyway, I said...

Wife,
I want to turn in a request for some time off during the early part of the
month of August, before the kids have to go back to school. I'm looking at
Wednesday, August 5th thru Wednesday, August 12th. Just wanted to let you know.
Thanks

I get the following back from her later on...

You know you can't just have them most of the summer. You already have them all
day on your days off.



I have our kids on my days off, and I take them back the night before I have to go back to work the following morning. I get them back after I get off work 2 or 3 days later. We each have them for 7 out of every 14 days...but she has a problem that I'm not working on the days that I have them, and she is working on most of the days that she has them...except she is off every weekend. I'm off every other weekend. I only work 3 days a week...that's the way my job is. She works 5 days a week...that's the way her job is.

I'm trying to have more clear communication with her regarding the kids, time off, vacations, etc. How should I respond to her text...or should I even respond to it? I think she gets mad because I've taken the kids on a couple of nice vacations this summer (I've posted about it on this thread).

Anyway, any help or feedback/advice from you folks woild be appreciated!

Anybody?

[Coach]

"So this works for when you want to take time off at the end of the month. I will be glad to let you have the kids then. We are splitting the kids 7 days out of 14 just like we agreed. Just trying to be flexible and coordinate schedules in advance. I would like to have the kids during ________ and you can have them during __________ when you have vacation. If you are not taking vacation then we can keep the regular schedule. I am going to request the time off for me then. This would be good for the kids. Those are my plans."


If she tries to push it back on you about you having them on your days off just say, "Me having the kids on days off is irrelevant, this is a part of 50/50 custody agreement which I am happy to agree with. Sorry you feel that way." Then exit. Don't take the bait. This is the reality of what she asked for, these are consequences. She doesn't have to go along with what you want either if it's not part of the agreeement so don't get upset if she says no.

[antlers]

"So this works for when you want to take time off at the end of the month. I will be glad to let you have the kids then. We are splitting the kids 7 days out of 14 just like we agreed. Just trying to be flexible and coordinate schedules in advance. I would like to have the kids during ________ and you can have them during __________ when you have vacation. If you are not taking vacation then we can keep the regular schedule. I am going to request the time off for me then. This would be good for the kids. Those are my plans."


If she tries to push it back on you about you having them on your days off just say, "Me having the kids on days off is irrelevant, this is a part of 50/50 custody agreement which I am happy to agree with. Sorry you feel that way." Then exit. Don't take the bait. This is the reality of what she asked for, these are consequences. She doesn't have to go along with what you want either if it's not part of the agreeement so don't get upset if she says no.

Hey Coach!
Thank you so much for helping. This is what I've sent her...

"So this works for you when you can take time off at the end of
the month. I'm happy to let you have the kids then. Just trying to be flexible
and coordinate schedules in advance, and communicate clearly. I would like to
have the kids during this time when I have vacation and you can have them when
you have vacation. We each have the kids every 7 out of 14 days just like we
agreed...50/50. I'm requesting this time off. It'll be good for the kids.
Those are my plans. I will always work with you in good faith."


And this is what I got back from her...

"Yeah real good faith and 50/50...you took them almost two weeks the end of June,
you're taking vacation the last week of July, and now this time in August.
Doesn't sound like 50/50 to me. And as I always remember and will remind you,
you've never been a 50/50 person with me...it's always been more one side than
the other, in every situation. And just to let you know, they have back to
school registration and Camp Turning Point during this time so they will not be
able to go anywhere. You are so selfish and always trying to make yourself look
better than me. You've done it for 18 years and you continue to do it. Call it
what you want, but I see it for what it is and so do others."


I have no vacation scheduled for the end of July...I did, but I canceled it because she wanted to take the kids somewhere during that time. And even if I did have vacation during the end of July, which I don't, what difference would it make since she is taking the kids somewhere during that time?

Anyway, could you folks help me with a response to this last E-mail of hers?



ps - these E-mails and texts of mine have been completely different than the way I used to communicate with her in the past.

[gucci loafer]

...but she has a problem that I'm not working on the days that I have them, and she is working on most of the days that she has them...

I can see her side of this as legitimate. How would YOU feel if this arrangement were reversed?

SAYING you want to be flexible and then coming across like you are doing to her doesn't look to flexible to me.

We each have the kids every 7 out of 14 days just like we
agreed...50/50.

That statement isn't a "flexible" sounding statement in the least. It is a statement that sounds "business like" it sounds as if you are following the agreement to a T... It sounds like you are not budging from the agreement.

That is NOT what being "flexible" means. Trying to be flexible and then being inflexible because you want your "50-50" is just going to sound more of the same to her. (which looks to be true according to her replies to you)

Maybe being "flexible" (if you truly mean it)would be that she gets them 70-30 for a time being. HUH? or 60-40 in HER favor for awhile. OR does flexible not go that far?

You will be flexible when SHE views you as flexible and not when others on here are telling you that you are.

It is HER view that matters. She isn't viewing you as flexible according to her responses to you. I would not underestimate her statements regarding these issues.

[antlers]

...but she has a problem that I'm not working on the days that I have them, and she is working on most of the days that she has them...

I can see her side of this as legitimate. How would YOU feel if this arrangement were reversed?

SAYING you want to be flexible and then coming across like you are doing to her doesn't look to flexible to me.

We each have the kids every 7 out of 14 days just like we
agreed...50/50.

That statement isn't a "flexible" sounding statement in the least. It is a statement that sounds "business like" it sounds as if you are following the agreement to a T... It sounds like you are not budging from the agreement.

That is NOT what being "flexible" means. Trying to be flexible and then being inflexible because you want your "50-50" is just going to sound more of the same to her. (which looks to be true according to her replies to you)

Maybe being "flexible" (if you truly mean it)would be that she gets them 70-30 for a time being. HUH? or 60-40 in HER favor for awhile. OR does flexible not go that far?

You will be flexible when SHE views you as flexible and not when others on here are telling you that you are.

It is HER view that matters. She isn't viewing you as flexible according to her responses to you. I would not underestimate her statements regarding these issues.

I can't help it that I work 3 12 hour days a week, and she works 5 days a week. Each of us has the kids every 7 out of 14 days, and each of us has them every other weekend. If the arrangement were reversed, I would feel that this was a consequence of the decision that I made to break the family apart and leave. This is a consequence of the decision that she made.

How am I coming across as inflexible gucci! I'm trying to point out that she has them just as many days as I do! And anytime that she wants to make changes to our schedule, I'm OK with that!

How is that statement not flexible sounding gucci, especially when taken in the context in which I meant it...that she has them just as much as I do? She makes out like I have them more, and I don't! It's not business-like...it's just a fact! I'm happy to 'budge' whenever she needs to, as I have mentioned and shown many times in past posts.

I know what flexible is, and have not been inflexible at all since this separation took place! Show me, please, where I've been inflexible? Mentioning 50/50 is only to show her that she has them just as much as I do!

If she wants them 70/30 for a time, or 60/40, or whatever...I'm OK with that. And I've never said or acted otherwise! Flexible goes as far as is reasonable.

I am flexible...period, and she's gonna see me the way she chooses to see me...regardless of the reality of the situation! She's hurt, and she's pissed! Again, she has reason to be...even after all this time, because of the way I treated her in the past. Anger protects you from being vulnerable. She says things based on how she wants/needs them to be...as opposed to how they actually are.

Her view does matter to me, but she is viewing me as she chooses to...for her own reasons, and this view is not realistic. I don't underestimate anything she says, regardless of how hurtful or wrong it is.



ps - I'm trying to challenge her dysfunctional belief that people (me) never change. I'm trying to model this in a healthy way...I want to 'lead' when I have an opportunity. I'm trying to 'lead' our relationship into a better place than it's in now. I want to be slow, steady, confident, and consistent.

pss - could you folks give me some advice, or examples, on what type of response I could make to her last E-mail?

[gucci loafer]

How am I coming across as inflexible gucci! I'm trying to point out that she has them just as many days as I do! And anytime that she wants to make changes to our schedule, I'm OK with that!

Seems like you totally missed my point.

It doesn't matter what Gucci thinks or Coach thinks or anybody else on here thinks about you being flexible or inflexible.

It is what your WIFE thinks. If SHE thinks you are inflexible... Then to her you ARE INFLEXIBLE. No?

According to the way that I understand her responses to you, it seems to me that she still views you as inflexible. Yes? No?

So if she still sees you as inflexible, wouldn't it make sense to try and help her to view you as changing? It makes sense to me.

She is viewing your efforts as same old same old. That means to me that what you are doing and the way you are responding doesn't seem to be moving you in the right direction IN HER MIND. (not my mind or anybody else's mind, but HER MIND)

Personally, I would try a different approach. It may be an approach that in your mind is NOT 50-50. Get it?
You may think that she is getting more from your "flexibility" than you are. However, she may then see you as being more flexible in HER MIND (not my mind or anybody else's mind) You need to find out what is flexible in HER MIND. When you find out, then you are making progress. It may take an approach that YOU feel isn't fair. Then you will know you are being flexible because you are doing it even though it isn't or doesn't seem fair to YOU? Get it?

I am not telling you what to do. If you want to stay on the path you are on, then I would guess that she will continue on her path also.

[antlers]

How am I coming across as inflexible gucci! I'm trying to point out that she has them just as many days as I do! And anytime that she wants to make changes to our schedule, I'm OK with that!

Seems like you totally missed my point.

It doesn't matter what Gucci thinks or Coach thinks or anybody else on here thinks about you being flexible or inflexible.

It is what your WIFE thinks. If SHE thinks you are inflexible... Then to her you ARE INFLEXIBLE. No?

According to the way that I understand her responses to you, it seems to me that she still views you as inflexible. Yes? No?

So if she still sees you as inflexible, wouldn't it make sense to try and help her to view you as changing? It makes sense to me.

She is viewing your efforts as same old same old. That means to me that what you are doing and the way you are responding doesn't seem to be moving you in the right direction IN HER MIND. (not my mind or anybody else's mind, but HER MIND)

Personally, I would try a different approach. It may be an approach that in your mind is NOT 50-50. Get it?
You may think that she is getting more from your "flexibility" than you are. However, she may then see you as being more flexible in HER MIND (not my mind or anybody else's mind) You need to find out what is flexible in HER MIND. When you find out, then you are making progress. It may take an approach that YOU feel isn't fair. Then you will know you are being flexible because you are doing it even though it isn't or doesn't seem fair to YOU? Get it?

I am not telling you what to do. If you want to stay on the path you are on, then I would guess that she will continue on her path also.

What kind of approach would you try? Could you give me an example of a response to her last E-mail that you would make...knowing what you know about me and our situation? I didn't miss your point...it's one of those 'perception is reality' issues...regardless of how irrational that 'perception' is!

Any feedback/help/responses would be appreciated.