Hello Kittyfish & Sandi2!

[BigJohn]

So, do you think she reads what you post here on the board?

My W told me she went here once to try to locate my posts out of curiosity but couldn't find them. My C recently suggested to both my W and I that I share my posts here with my W. I offered to at the time- my W has yet to take me up on the offer.

I've suggested to my W several times in the past to read and/or post on here to find the truth for herself about what is going on with her and not take my word for it. Maybe even talk to gals like you, Sandi, who went through and survived an EA.

I really wish she would indulge me in corresponding a little with you but she just says she is not interested in posting. Any ideas on how I might pique her curiosity enough to give it a try? Have you ever engaged a WAW in conversation or extended an invitation to a WAW to do so before here on the boards?

[sandi2]

Have you ever engaged a WAW in conversation or extended an invitation to a WAW to do so before here on the boards?

No, only those who came here on the board and we found each other. But, I would be glad to talk to her if she wanted. I just don't think she should be pushed b/c she clearly doesn't want to do it. If I understand it correctly, Coach's wife found the boards, so who knows.....maybe if you ease up, she'll do it on her own.

Why would your C think you should share what you've posted? Not that you've said anything you shouldn't, but seems like that would be like letting her read your tool book....DR. But, if it worked. I can't remember that much, but I think Geek (Coach's wife) said that is what really began to turn her around when she found the DB board. Don't want to speak to much for her b/c I might not remember it just the way she said.

I know your patience must be getting weary. My heart went out for another poster today who was really having a hard time over the WAS. I know that your W is not happy.....she only tries to make herself think she "will" be happier. Don't give up. If my feelings can change, so can your W's.

[BigJohn]

Why would your C think you should share what you've posted? Not that you've said anything you shouldn't, but seems like that would be like letting her read your tool book....DR.

I think my C was thinking that by reading my posts my W would also be exposed to the feedback I am getting from you and others and that maybe that would pique my W's curiosity further.

I know your patience must be getting weary. My heart went out for another poster today who was really having a hard time over the WAS. I know that your W is not happy.....she only tries to make herself think she "will" be happier. Don't give up. If my feelings can change, so can your W's.

I have to admit I have my moments. It is not in my nature to take crap from ANYONE for a second yet I've taken the worse abuse of my life from my W for the last 4 1/2 months since discovery of her EA and I'm still hanging tough. Still thinking about the likely impending escalation to a PA in two weeks and how I'm going to deal with that.

It's becoming abundantly clear that my W must crash and burn- and merrily take down the kids and I in the process- in order to learn her lesson about OM and her associated fantasy. It kills me to no end how little I can do to stop her from continuing inflicting the damage she is doing to us and our family. I resent it to the point where I sometimes wonder if I might be happier WITHOUT HER- before I realize that I'm just falling into the same trap she is in now. Perseverance is the key. I've got to keep the focus on me and the kids. She will either come around soon enough to help me turn our sitch around, or she won't... in which case she'll eventually bite the dust sometime down the road with OM. How I wish I could post OM picture for everyone to see- a picture of my W's OM really is like a thousand words. Maybe in his case two thousand words. Either way, life will go on and I will succeed with my kids in tow.

[sandi2]

A voice of strength and determination.....not to mention the love!

[BigJohn]

Sandi,

I like to check out your other posts from time to time and ran across this one:

When I decided that I would "stay" at home.....I was not in any mood to discuss it. He may think that deciding to just stay in the M and not get D is enough for now. I was the "talkative" type and yet I had nothing to say! I was all talked out. I had been trying to tell my H what I needed for YEARS.....but it did no good. I don't know that your H has tried to tell you or not....just saying that he may see "staying" as "working". At the time, I felt that was all I could do. I had to reach what I call the point to be willing "to be willing" and it took quite a while before that actually kicked in. I even tried to tell myself that I was trying to "work".....when all I was doing was staying here. But to me....that was work!

I've heard my W several times make a similar point about relating to staying/remaining in our house as "working" or "contributing". Most recently, my W made this point to our C two weeks ago in response to our C stating that I had made great strides in my personal progress while my W had done nothing to address her "issues"- which my W also responded to (predictably) "I don't have any issues". That by the way was the same discussion in which my C suggested that it was time for my W to start looking to move out of our house ASAP as it appeared to her (C) that a trial separation would be much "healthier" for both of us since my W refuses to drop her EA with OM. (Recall that my W cried during that part of the discussion and was later pissed off after the session.) Incidently, my friend who had his own EA/PA thinks it would be a good idea for my W to move out on her own- at least temporarily. He said all it took for him was about one week alone at a local hotel for him to "get it".

At first blush, I don't like the idea and am not entirely pleased about my C bringing up my W potentially moving out. We could probably afford a one week stay at a hotel for my W financially, I just don't know if we could pull it off with the kids, especially D3. Plus with her Iphone and my BIL living in town, it probably wouldn't have as great an effect. Then again, I don't particularly care for my W's cake eating either.

My feeling right now is that having my W living here at the house with detachment from me is the still the best arrangement. That may change of course following my W's out of state trip back home in August and whatever transpires between her and OM. It's still looking bleak- she worked out this a.m. then spent a few hours tanning in the back yard. She looks smoking hot- part of me wishes I could tell her that right now- but I know all of the hard work is for OM's benefit.

BTW, how does the LBH differentiate between when a WAW is "cake eating" vs. being ambivalent and/or scared? Any thoughts on this?

[sandi2]

I suggest saving your money on the motel for a week. She will need more than that. That would seem like a little vacation to her and she would not have it "rough". Staying at a motel without having to clean house, cook, wash, etc.? Are you kidding? I would love it! What woman wouldn't?

Anyway, I sure think what that C did was a very, very bad move on her part. I think that MC was not helping your stitch one bit. Everytime that C praised you for your accomplishments....it pissed your W off, right? Maybe she tried to pretend she didn't care, but she did! You are the enemy in her eyes and she doesn't want to hear anyone have anything good to say about you. (Thinking as a WAW)

Yes, she does feel like it's "work" to remain in the M. Not fair to you, but that is how she feels.

BTW, how does the LBH differentiate between when a WAW is "cake eating" vs. being ambivalent and/or scared? Any thoughts on this?

When a WAW is cake eating, she will be affectionate as if she isn't in an EA/PA (which ever the case). She may act as if all is fine on the home front. She will basically (I think) act as she ordinarily would and that is why a lot of H's do not realize she is in an A. Now, that's my opinion. I never did any cake eating, that I'm aware of. My H knew I was as cold as the North Pole and would have nothing to do with him. Wouldn't even stay in the same room with him unless we were with family. I'm sure they could sense the tension! I never cooked for him or anything!

I think if she's scared......she will act in a nervous manner, maybe, or like she's thinking of making a big decision. Being M to somebody for a long time, you just learn to "read them". I think you would be able to tell by her body language, if nothing else. Which I guess would go for being ambivalent, as well. Those are cases where I think every personality would differ. Wish I could be more help.

I do think you are making the right decision to remain in the home. I know it's hard, but I hope you can hang with it.

[sandi2]

I think a better way to describe "cake eating" would be to say she is wanting to have her A, but she wants all the benefits of being M, too. Expecting you to shower her with kindness and attention when she's being a WW. I don't guess I'm doing a good job at explaining......

[BigJohn]

When a WAW is cake eating, she will be affectionate as if she isn't in an EA/PA (which ever the case). She may act as if all is fine on the home front. She will basically (I think) act as she ordinarily would and that is why a lot of H's do not realize she is in an A. Now, that's my opinion. I never did any cake eating, that I'm aware of. My H knew I was as cold as the North Pole and would have nothing to do with him. Wouldn't even stay in the same room with him unless we were with family. I'm sure they could sense the tension! I never cooked for him or anything!

For the most part she has been acting "normal" with the exception of continuing to not be affectionate/intimate- more so it seems with the impending trip coming up in August. She seems to be making some effort on her part to not cause or add to any tension in the house. She is also keeping herself busy with kid activities, etc. in between working out and tanning. Beyond the obvious advantages of keeping the peace leading up to the trip, I'm not sure what else her agenda might be with the attitude- to try to keep me calm like you would an animal you were going to take to slaughter?

I have to admit, I'm somewhat tempted to crash this August vacation for real- either go in the car with the family or fly out for an unannounced visit mid-week... or better yet go pay OM a surprise visit to boot. (Don't they have a face icon with an evil grin?) But that would be considered pursuing, right? All kidding aside, there wouldn't be any benefit to doing that would there.....like maybe putting a damper on sexual contact between W and OM? After this trip, I wouldn't anticipate another one like it until next January, which could buy me/W more time. I really am having a problem trying to work through a likely sexual contact scenario between W and OM...

I do think you are making the right decision to remain in the home. I know it's hard, but I hope you can hang with it.

I am not going anywhere, I put my blood, sweat and tears into this home, not her. She is the one who has strayed, not me. I can hang with the decision to stay in this house all day long. She is the one who needs to worry about staying or not. Obviously I want her to stay, but if the only means of advancing in a positive direction in our MR is for her to be physically separated from me, then I guess that is something we need to talk about in the near future. My C certainly feels that there is an increasing need for physical separation between W and I, however after reading through half of "Walk Away Woman" so far, I am not so convinced.

[sandi2]

BJ, I respect your feelings regarding the ordeal with your W. I sure can understand why you would want to bust that little party up in August. Now, you know that you "can" bust the A. And Puppy encouages that LBS do that. It doesn't, however, always bust the divorce. Some have tried that and it doesn't have the desired results and doesn't neccessarily end the A. It is more of an "exposure". If you showed up there unannounced in August, you could probably put a big damper on things. But would it draw your W back to the M or push her futher away? That is the missing piece right there. And....would you want to take that risk? Are you at that place now?

You know your wife better than another soul. Based on how she has been acting toward you, with the family, around the home activities, etc.......do you ever get the impression that she wants to see you arrive on the scene as her knight in shinning armour who has come to fight for the M? There have been the very few exception of W's who said that is what they wanted to see the LBH do. I was not that way. I was sooo turned off to my H that there is no way I would have wanted that to happen. But I don't know your wife. All I can judge is by what you tell me. What do you think?

[BigJohn]

BJ, I respect your feelings regarding the ordeal with your W. I sure can understand why you would want to bust that little party up in August. Now, you know that you "can" bust the A. And Puppy encouages that LBS do that. It doesn't, however, always bust the divorce. Some have tried that and it doesn't have the desired results and doesn't neccessarily end the A. It is more of an "exposure". If you showed up there unannounced in August, you could probably put a big damper on things. But would it draw your W back to the M or push her futher away? That is the missing piece right there. And....would you want to take that risk? Are you at that place now?

Sandi,

These are all great questions...and I realize that crashing the August vacation might not have the desired result. When I spontaneously reacted the other day by telling my W that I might be going, her reaction was mild disgust followed by a "whatever". I can't say right now if it would push her further away or not- it's hard to gauge right now along with the degree of risk. I do know that if her EA escalates to a PA things will definitely get worse in our sitch, at least for the forseeable future.

You know your wife better than another soul. Based on how she has been acting toward you, with the family, around the home activities, etc.......do you ever get the impression that she wants to see you arrive on the scene as her knight in shinning armour who has come to fight for the M? There have been the very few exception of W's who said that is what they wanted to see the LBH do. I was not that way. I was sooo turned off to my H that there is no way I would have wanted that to happen. But I don't know your wife. All I can judge is by what you tell me. What do you think?

Another great question. I'm just not sure, she seems so dedicated to a R with OM and not "losing him" while not seeming to show a lot of interest in me... although she did make some comments to me earlier tonight while I was reading "Walk Out Woman"- she first asked "Are you reading that to avoid being a WAW?" (No) then "Did you get that for me to read?" (No, I bought it for myself, but you are welcome to read it when I'm done.") "Oh".

There is a part of me that intuitively feels as if I should do some A busting in August. As a man, I find myself asking the rhetorical question- what loving H WOULDN'T attempt to interfere or potentially stop a possible sexual liaison between his W and OM, particularly if he felt strongly beforehand of the possibility of it happening?

I can appreciate the DB concept of not pursuing, and the fact that my W as a WAW does NOT want me to interfere, hates me right now, can't stand me, etc.. On the other hand, my W is aware of my concern about her having intimate contact with OM in August but... I don't know for certain if SHE is 100% certain what my reaction is going to be. At the beginning of the EA, my W could be certain that I would predictably take measures to stop her from a PA but now I don't think she is 100% certain of anything I may or may not do. I do wonder whether- despite her WAW condition- my NOT reacting predictably to the vacation in August might actually do some harm in my R with my W. I can't help but feel that somewhere in her scrambled brains there must still be an expectation to be "protected" by her H and/or "fought for". And if that is the case, won't my failure to react as expected reinforce feelings (if there are any of these type of feelings within my W) that I don't love her and/or I really am no longer her H? Your thoughts on what to look for to see if my W may be looking for me to be the Knight trying to save the M?