Slowly getting better?? - WAW advice still needed.

[mindfull]

Hey Sam... I'm just headed out to Happy Hour! Yay!!

You got it exactly right about the validation... This isn't just you being a jealous H, or partner. This is a R (no matter how close, etc...) that is taking away from the mending of yours, and her attention gets diverted, and she gets "saved" by someone else, not you. (kind of run on sentences... I've had a pre-happy hour glass of wine, sorry)

I think I told you this before. You need something to shake her up. How about an invitation into the home of a f*cked up divorced family, with kids being fought over, a new boyfriend/girlfriend getting YOUR time w/your kids, an atmosphere she doesn't approve of, etc...?? I'd like her to talk to my D18. Her Dad and I divorced when she was barely two, and his house was always chaos and destruction. She'd cry and cling to mine and my H's legs when she'd have to go... And, believe it or not, we co-parented beautifully until my H came in the picture. He couldn't handle another male in her life.

Just an example of a shake-up.

She needs a shake up.

I'll think about it for you. Not sure how much I can offer, but I know she doesn't sound right. She sounds too needy, self deprecating, and really, not at all attractive. I'm wondering if you're "there" yet.

Chin up, Sam. You're an amazing H and even better Dad for this fight.

[Sam1007]

Had posted this in MB's thread, because Mike from TN had a good summary of DB principles and I had wanted to summarize my "results" from doing those things. So here it is:

I fully agree with what Mike was saying, the DB principles, and have been doing what he was saying for the past 9 months, and here's the result:

- I have been GAL and stopped "hanging out" with W, pursuing her, starting R talk, calling or texting all the time (only relating to kids logistics or if she initiates)>>>>>
Last week she tells me that I never come to her town to try and connect with her "friends" (after this weekend, I have no desire to connect with them at all, see my thread for that story), rarely came over to check on her shop, etc... so it doesn't seem like I want to work on the M either.

- I have lost a significant amount of weight, work out a lot and look pretty good even if I say so myself >>>>>
W has noticed and tells me (6 months ago, 3 months ago and last week) that it's awesome to see me like this. Her words 3 months ago and last week: "You are running, looking great and probably ready to date..." In other words, I will be a great catch for my next partner... Last week again: "You should have a loving wife and having sex! Don't you miss that?"

- I have worked on the things she brought forward as being wrong with me (being difficult about letting her go out by herself when the kids were young, I didn't go out by myself either btw; me needing to start my hobbies again, make myself happy). I agreed with all of these and took responsability for those contributing to our problems. Other "problems" with me she brought forward I did not agree with, but they have disappeared, and when reminded, she says she doesn't even remember telling me those. I have not pointed any of these changes out ever to her. >>>>>
She has noticed and acknowledged (3months ago and last week) that I am not like that anymore (unprompted, by herself), but says in the same sentence that if she were to move back in, it would just all turn back to the way it was before (to crap). Her words: "I would ruin you". She even used the term "180": Her words: "You have done a complete 180 on me." Freaky isn't it?

During the whole S time, she's been depressed. She's holding a happy face to all her friends, but I get to see and hear the depressing thoughts when she comes to talk to me. At times, it's been so severe that I am sincerely worried about her health and well-being. So, what's left to try?

[Sam1007]

You got it exactly right about the validation... This isn't just you being a jealous H, or partner. This is a R (no matter how close, etc...) that is taking away from the mending of yours, and her attention gets diverted, and she gets "saved" by someone else, not you. (kind of run on sentences... I've had a pre-happy hour glass of wine, sorry)

That's EXACTLY right! My sister was telling me the same thing: it doesn't really matter how close or not close that R is, it's INTERFERING! I think I need some wine too!! LOL! And it's 11:30am...

I think I told you this before. You need something to shake her up. How about an invitation into the home of a f*cked up divorced family, with kids being fought over, a new boyfriend/girlfriend getting YOUR time w/your kids, an atmosphere she doesn't approve of, etc...?? I'd like her to talk to my D18. Her Dad and I divorced when she was barely two, and his house was always chaos and destruction. She'd cry and cling to mine and my H's legs when she'd have to go... And, believe it or not, we co-parented beautifully until my H came in the picture. He couldn't handle another male in her life.

She's kind of had that over the weekend. Being lectured by StepS13's dad about not providing a stable home for him and fighting over where he should live. W proposed that he live with me, since the better school is in the town where I work. That didn't go over too well with his dad of course!

She sounds too needy, self deprecating, and really, not at all attractive. I'm wondering if you're "there" yet.

She's always been VERY self-depreciating! She has terribly low self-esteem. And I am getting to the point where I really feel the one and only reason I am still holding on in silence is the kids. Even if we still manage to get back together, it's gonna take a long time for me to feel the same way for her as I did 2 years ago.

[pearlharbr]

I agree with MB, I think it's time for a big shake up in something. Yes you've had good results but it seems like things have been pretty much status quo for quite some time now. Perhaps closing the store will be enough. If not, start thinking about it. For example, if you do end up divorced, will you continue to be friends with her at the same level you are now? Maybe she needs to see what D will really look like.

But her conclusion from that is that I am apparently happier WITHOUT her than WITH her (this was also mentioned in her Feb email and again now). How do I get this out of her head!??

I don't know if there's anything you can do about this. She needs to go to IC and work out her own issues. She is the only person who can raise her self esteem.

[ernest88]

so SAM..I have a question..has your wife ever wavered at all?? or has she been exactly the same from the beginning?? I'm looking for concrete proof that she has wavered..I'm looking for something she has done that would give you proof beyond a shadow of a doubt that she at some point in this journey..has had second thoughts at all..

[Sam1007]

Thanks for stopping by MB, pearl and Mike!

To answer Mike's question: she has wavered earlier on in the S. The first 6 months maybe? But the last 2-3 months, no movement whatsoever. The last improvement I noticed was right after we came back from our family trip to Disney. That was early June.

And about second thoughts: I've always figured if she was so sure she wanted a D, then she would just get the paperwork done. She will mention a D every 3 months or so, but she never takes action. After I mentioned on Sunday that I am not afraid to move on, date or be alone again, this time might be different.

[Sam1007]

OK, so it's already late and I got to get up early, so I am trying to keep this as succint as possible, but I have a lot to catch up on....

So on Sunday last week, W calls me to talk about where the boys should go to school, in her town or just outside where I (we) live(d). I told her that I really would like for them to go to a school in "neutral" territory in light of the recent events (whole circumstances around her operation, see earlier in here). She then got really mad and said that I should just do whatever the he!! I want and that she doesn't care anymore. I was just talking calmly and asked what she had against the other school, but no real answer. Got off the phone and an hour later I get a text saying "email", so I know immediately what that's about. I check it and it's the same thing again: I am happier without her, she has been the cause of my depression, etc.. And then the new thing: she already went to an attorney for a free consulation and she now has appt for late Tue afternoon to draw up the paperwork. Also, she took something I had said a week earlier the wrong way. I had told her I had to file some paperwork for work which would take several months to process and that it mattered whether I was married or not at the end of the process. I told her that I was not sure whether I should file it or not under the circumstances. In her email it was clear that she took it as I didn't care about the marriage at all, I was just concerned about the paperwork... My actual intention when I said those things was that we were talking about D and I just wanted to let her know all the things that are going through my mind in this matter, all the cards on the table. It looked like she started writing immediately after we got off the phone. I call her so we can talk and I can explain about the paperwork and she doesn't answer, I leave a msg and she call me back 2 minutes later. We talked for about 90 minutes and I just calmly explained to her that I was trying to lay all the cards out and be totally honest with her:
- I am not afraid of moving on, dating or being alone, but I owe it to the boys to try everything I can.
- I always figured if she was so sure about wanting a D, then I figured she'd start the paperwork.
- if she's sure now, then go ahead and see the attorney.
- I explained once agian that I figured out how to make myself happy and that's why I am happier now, NOT because she's gone.
- I've always thought that the feelings and thoughts she expresses to me are very similar to what I was thinking during my depression and so as she was mentioning that she needs to figure out how to make herself happy, I thought maybe she'd be more receptive to that now. I talked for a while about how I was feeling during that time and the thoughts I had about our M.

I am not sure, but I got the feeling that some of that stuff may have clicked for her. By the time we were done, she was completely calmed down and we calmly discussed the arrangements for school (no more arguing about which school or anything). I decided that apparently she's sure and she's starting paperwork, so that's it, so I took my ring off (hasn't been on since).

She called me on Tuesday afternoon whether to come pick up the boys and was telling me the dr. appt she just came from. Sounded like she's not been to the attorney. No mention of it since then either. Thursday at the school open house, she's all chipper and joking with me, telling me about all kinds of things. I think she may have noticed that I'm not wearing my ring anymore. On Sun, she wanted to have a fun day with StepS13, but I found out that the other guy was there again and went with them. Got really mad right then, but got over it pretty quick. Went and hung out with my friends at the lake yacht club. Was a lady there (pretty good looking too) that got divorced recently and is now dating this guy and she was saying how good it was to find a nice guy, with a house, a good job and no jail record around here. So that made me feel quite a bit better, apparently guys like me are in demand!

Sun night W calls me to say that she's gonna go look at a house on the other side of the square from our house. It's coming up for rent in Oct, so sounds like she's serious about moving out of her town (where the other guy lives also)... So we'll see.

Yesterday, she meets me and the boys at school for the first day. At night she was picking them up from me and called on the way, asking about my day with the boys. She brings me a cd with music she like and thought I would like (funny thought I had: pretty sure that other guy hates that kind of music...). On the way out, she mentions that she was just looking at our pictures from vacation a couple of years ago (the 2 only vacations we took just the 2 of us) and noticed how fat we were back then, how we both have come a long way from then. Today, she's called twice...

I dunno, but some things seem to be changing. But it's changed before, only to go right back to where it used to be, so we'll see.

[pearlharbr]

Ok, now that sounds like some changes are happening/on the way.

It's bedtime for me so I'll come back tomorrow.

[pearlharbr]

I'm glad you laid all the cards out on the table and explained to W that if she feels she is done then get the paperwork started. Between that and you taking off your ring you showed her that you are willing to move on without her. That got her attention. Whether or not she chooses to act is yet to be seen. But I think it's great for you either way. You're moving forward with or without her and working on your own happiness.

I say good work and keep moving down that path. I know it feels like you've been here before. What do you think triggered the relapse last time?

[mindfull]

Sam. Wow. I'll be back. I need a blankmind to get through this one!