"you have the opportunity to free fall in this moment between birth and death, right through the hole of your fear, into the unthreatenable openness which is the source of your gifts."
Hey Beavis: He said, "Hole" -- get it? Fall into the hole? Uh-ha-huh. Huh-huh.
"You can ravish your woman so deeply that her surrender breaks your heart into light."
He said, "Deep." Huh-huh-huh.
"The amount of consciousness with which you can ravish your woman--the size of your 'spiritual penis,' so to speak"
Smiley, you're trying to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person. Bad form! giggle
There's a great deal to be said for having someone around to kill big scary spiders AND there's a great deal to be said for gaining the skillz and confidence to kill them yourself, even if that wasn't exactly what you expected your life to be like.
Having some experience with both metaphorical situations, I honestly don't know which is more satisfying.
But then apparently the default assumption (not just you, rob) about my gender identity is "male", so I seem to be a poor voice for my sistahs.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
Well we've had this discussion before, and I tend to come down on @Kettricken's side on this with respect to questioning the presumption that a clearly defined male/female dichotomy is operational. There is, among other problems, an issue of selection bias - we just don't have a large enough sample from which to make these inferences. For another, it's easy to say one wants "masculinism" as a theoretical proposition, without experiencing it empirically. One sees among certain religious orthodoxies, for example, a bright-line separation between XX and XY, but it hardly meets my test of desirability.
I wonder, too, that one encounters hereabouts so much discussion of what is/is not a signifier of Manly Assurance, yet the silence with respect to the other - Acceptable Womanliness - is deafening. A bit of the old gender bias there, methinks.
Big picture, I think that men should not be afraid to step up and be leaders in their families. Not in an obnoxious egotistical "I Tarzan, you Jane" way. But in a "this family means the world to me and I will step up to protect/defend/provide for us no matter what" kind of way. It is NOT attractive to think your Husband has no plan/goal/vision for the future of his family, nor a clue how to make the vision reality...
Hallelujah. And we women need to know how to back off, let them lead and not bust their balls if they miss the mark.
FRAME ALL THAT. ^
Puppy
More thoughts on this...why is it so hard? You have to really TRUST your partner to let go and let them lead. You have to believe they have the best interest of the family at heart.
We could fill up threads upon threads about what is desirable masculinity and femininity and everyone's defn' would be different. We'd probably find major themes that apply in most sitches but even those would fall apart crossing certain social and cultural lines.
Short of burning up text and time, my immediate takeaway is that something initially brought a couple together. Those proper XX and XY roles were in play. Then over time they disappeared.
"Strong Man" quit going to the gym long ago and got flabby from drinkin' beer.
"The Playah" was last seen carting a diaper bag and pushing a stroller through DisneyLand.
"The Princess"...well we all know what happened to her. (actually I don't know - use your own imagination)
It's up to us to figure out what we (Him and Her) lost, what changed, and why. Who were we? Who are we?
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
You have to really TRUST your partner to let go and let them lead. You have to believe they have the best interest of the family at heart.
But isn't it also the case that you have to accept -- on the basis of comparatively little evidence -- the proposition that "He" can lead better than "She" can?
And I'm still puzzled by the silence on Womanhood. Not the "women want you to be a man" bit, but the unspoken which lurks behind every such post: "Men want Their Woman [to coin a Deida-ism] to be XYZ."
Well? Who's going to take the plunge? Who's going to define Acceptable Womanliness?
Because it seems to me that if sauce for the gander isn't also sauce for the goose, this entire meme -- Man Up -- is well-nigh pointless. So let's hear it -- what is "appropriate" or "real" Woman behavior?
And brood, if you will, upon the implications! It means that WAH is a WAH because W isn't Woman Enough for him.....
What do husbands want from their wives? From my husband's pov (although again a limited sample):
1)Don't start looking like a 'mom' when you have kids. Many times I would comment on how his sister, in her late 30s, would get dressed up in cute jeans, trendy top, jewelry, just to go to dinner with the family. She wore (wears) the same size as her high school daughter. He said, "I think it is awesome that she always looks good when she goes out, even if it is just with family."
Also, I gained weight after we had kids. And I lost it back, but was in no particular hurry. After the first baby I cut my hair short in an easy 'mom' style and wore a basic uniform of jeans and v-neck tshirts or polos. That is NOT a sexy look!
And I am sure I will catch hell from the independent women out there for that last part. Even Dr. Phil has told a husband or two, "Your wife got that body from giving you your beautiful children!!"
True? Yes. BUT, truth is, physical attraction is part of the game. If wives were smaller when they got married, dressed well, wore makeup, etc.--and all of that changed after the kids came along--well, then you can see where hubby may have a case of WTF???And yes the same is true for husbands who let themselves go but SP asked about expectations for wives.
In short, my husband wanted a wife who: 1)Continued to look good, carry herself well
2)Supported/encouraged/believed in him like she did in the early years, instead of questioning/doubting/nagging every little decision he made or dollar he spent
3)Let him take the lead on the big goals for the family
4)Spoke highly of him when with friends, rather than belittling him or making light of his accomplishments and pointing out his flaws in some attempt to be humorous
4)Continued to have her own opinion on many things. Calling at work every day and asking "What do YOU want for dinner?", deferring at the video store "Whatever movie YOU want", etc is also unappealing. So it is a fine line between trusting your H to lead and completely losing your own sense of identity in the process.
5)In tandem with #4, a wife who continues to have her own friends, activities, and hobbies OUTSIDE of her husband and children (see GAL for further info.).
OK that was just off the top of my head. BBJs views do not necessarily represent the views of womankind. And, btw, we women can write a book on what we want from men. You men need to speak up and be honest about what you want from us...
