Sandi2, Coach, Puppy and Gucci help!

[Bravehardt]

Sandi

how do you think your W has felt for YEARS & YEARS of having to do this? I saw immediately that she was spread too thin and could not deal with all the demands upon he

I have let her know many times that I understand what she has been feeling.She has told. I agree you.

you do need to be concerned about her mental state. She has undoubtedly had more than she can mentally/emotionally bear.

I have been trying for months to relate to her that I'm here for her, can I help her out with anything. She refuse any thing from me. Says that I can fix anything not this. I/She has suggested C but she pretty much claims it's for me, she said at on point (So you want me to go to C so he can give me a pill and I'll see hearts and stars and fall madly in love with you!) I've talked with her sisters who have said she seem disconnected. I need help with this area! Supermom does need help, we had a system in place that I thought was working, she never voices any complaint or concerens.

The fact that the house started sliding was a sign that she had too much on her shoulders. I think you said something about working and providing for your family and being at "family events", but her work was actually more (in many ways) than what you were doing and she never got to "clock out" and go to a quiet safe place that did not require something of "her". When women went out to the workforce, they took on that job on top of all the jobs at home, they didn't necessarily trade it in. (Not saying you don't see that.....just talking)

Agreed.

I do not think the OM was the original problem, but I see him as a big threat now. However, he is the result of what she is trying to escape. Much like your teenage D, she is trying to find something that will make her feel better, so she is trying to escape to "fantasy land" and each time you make her feel really bad about the stitch, then she's going to run to fantasy land and find OM.

How do I combat this threat? She knows I know about him, but acts like I don't know what I'm talking about? Then tells me to leave the past alone. I also have a suspision about OW. I don't know anything about her at this point, execpt that they used to work together. Some of our freinds have said that she's not the same person they new 4 months ago. I don't know who she hangs out with. She very secretive, the kids think she works 24/7.

Do you see the coldness there? If you are not giving any financial support (or not enough)...and yet you say you could "hire a driver" to take the kids to school? I'm sure you were making a point to her, but you cut her to the quick when you told her that, and it only adds more problems to your stitch. I'm not telling you what to do about the financial support b/c that is not really the issue in this quote......it is how you expressed that to your W as if she was not worth more than a hired hand who was falling down on her job. When you said what you did, she thought if you had money to pay a driver....then you could fork it over

Yes, I've been told that I'm to blunt and that some the words I choose are like throwing daggers at her. I'm working on my responses or saying nothing at all.

As far finacial support she has taken money from our safe once and I have given her some support back in April. My funds are very tight, I'm struggling to cover cost each month but somehow manage.I don't have enough to support her in the sense of paying for an apartment.

My W had been speaking to me for a good month about 50/50 this and that in a very threatening manner, she equated taking the kids to school as her 50% contribution to their visitation or something of that nature. I had confronted her about her coming over to the house unannounced like there was no problem between us(I was still in panic mode at the time). So what was said was in the heat of the moment, raw emotion. My intent was not to fluster her but to understand how the space situation was going to work if she just would drop by. It ended up going in a different direction.

For what it's worth, if I had been in your place, I would have probably thought the same thing as you did, however, I'm telling you about her. You either want to draw her back.....or push her away. You can't have it both ways. If you try to draw her back, then you need to learn how to do that without looking like a whimp or going the other direction and being a jerk.

I'm looking for every opportunity from you to help me understand her point of view. Yes, I want to draw her back. How do I dothis with out looking like a whip?(websters might have a photo of me under whimp) just kidding. I have a lot of emotion to express to her and they come out every couple of weeks.

My first impression of this statement was not very nice. But, I will give you the benefit of the doubt. How exactly do you mean this?

I own a small construction company. I started it before we married. I wore all the hats, in the beggining marketing, sales, design,production sometimes and managing the subs. A lot of blood, sweat and hours. I provided a great life for my family, they did not have worry about anything. As the economy soured and the jobs have become more scarce I've felt that what I have done for 17 year was not apprieciated. We had to cut back some of the fat in our budget (business as well as personal). My W continued to spend like nothing had changed. I have never really done anything for myself in regard to buying something nice just for myself. Every purchase was with the family in mind. Because when I had the time off, they were the who I wanted to spend it with.

I feel that when she pushed all the bills at me and left our home, I was just a cash cow with no more milk. She did contribute to our household with her pay check(a small sum I know). Idid not have any input into how our personal bill were paid, or what percentage if any she use out of her own check. That is my fault I guess, but thats how we've done it from the beginning. She became reckless with the little money she made as well as what I made. She treated the atm card like a credit card and we experience a lot nsf fees. My comments in regards to that spending probablly came off more like me putting her down rather than a thoughtful explination of how we could manage the funds better. I have expressed my regret to her for these comments. All in all I thought that with the difficult times she would have been there to help me out or at least acknowlegde that she was greatful for all I had done over the years. I got so burned out trying to keep everything at the same level as a year ago I kind of burried my head in the sand also. And she know all this, I've told her. She never really acknowledges what I say, it like talking to stone sometimes. She was very upset in Feb. we had an irs levy place on all our bank accounts and her paycheck(which I had release).
So put that on top of everything else. She blamed me for the irs mess since i hired the cpa so long ago. It was an old issue that had sliped threw the cracks I've solved it for now.

Do tell???? (Yes, this is where you said something about being there for all family activities! Well, hooray for you!) And you wonder why she's walked away

The last six year my business was at the point were I was just managing everything and could spend more time with her and the family, unlike in the beginning. We did go out and met with friend but not on a regular basis. she hanndled most of the social events. As far chores around the house I was lacking in those department. I did spend time with the kids and giver her her days alone or girls weekend away. The last 9 months or so just seemed to get a little quite due to lack of extra funds. Her mom move 5 minutes away from us about 6 years ago and was a great help. Its here last surviving parent and I know it was painful for her to she her go downhill, I felt the same way. She changed to meet the circumstances and I was still trying to make the business work like it use to. I've told her this also.

You can stick your head in the sand, but it won't make OM go away. Your W told you to drop it.....so you have. Nice. Don't you know that she will continue contact with OM as long as she can get something out of that R? Don't go off half-cocked before discussing it, but wanted to tell you that you are kidding yourself about this stitch where OM is concerned-- and he lied to you bigger than life.

Yes I did and and offered it to a higher power. How do I confront this sitch with OM? I figured he was just working from script. W possible in on it. I looked at phone records last night and OM is still there. She may even be spending time at his place, by looking at where her calls originate from. I do have intel on his home, but figure unless I could catch them together it was worthless.
I need expert help in this area as well.

So, you try to make her "want" to come to the house so she will "soften" at the idea of being there (or something to that effect) but as soon as she does try to think of it as a place to relax with her child, you begin to interrogate her? (No, I realize you didn't....but she probably felt like you were.) I don't think the home should be the place for a S couple to discuss R topics--if at all possible. Let that place be associated with good memories and a relaxing place to be with her children. If you must, meet at a different location to discuss the stitch

A good friend suggested that I let her come spend the night and leave her and kids alone if needed, which I have done or come back and slept on the coach also. She has been trying to come over and spend the night with the kids once a week now for about 4 weeks(it hasn't work out a couple of times). As far as taking R talks some where else it seems pointless. She will not even look me in the eyes when speeking to me about R and I have requested to meet her and talk but she has refuse. Most of the time she start something in front of the kids, I try to take it outside.

when you took D's side against the W's, she feels that she has lost the battle there and gave up. Now, in her mind's eye, the D6 is all she has left and that's why she is clinging to her

Agreed. I have acknowledge this to her and tried to explain that I felt responsible for putting D 14 in that position and apologized for that unfortunate evening. It isvery hard for me emotionally to see what this does to the 2 older kid, not to mention that once she leaves D 6 magic carpet ride doesn't last forever. It's a challenge each time to deal with each one of their emotions on different levels.

What do you want to navigate......sex?

NOT ALL. She has started to call and be more interested in whats has been going on since Father's Day. Talking with kids, sounding like the person I married. No interest in me until last week, she called me and ask if I would like to meet her at the movies with D 6 on Saturday after she got off work. A high expectation on my behalf. I had gone dark since fathers day. So that Friday she came over, D 6 ask her to stay for dinner and she agreed. Well we were alone in the kitchen and let her know that the door is still open and I'm willing to try and make things work. Her reply was what if they can;t, mine what if they could she said she didn't know. Her back was to me and she turned around to get a pan and we embraced. After that she withdrew and stated that she did not want to stay for dinner, she did go swimming with D 6. I got kind of annoyed and went out from to look at her cars oil level. Came back out by the pool and told her that she need to schedule some time to be with S 17 and D 14 around first of month because me and D 6 would be out of town. The older kid have sport obligations and did not want to go. Well that pretty much ended the movie date. This is where I can't seem to navigate the R talks or going dark or what ever. HELP!

Was this "after" the embrace? I see it as pursuing way over the top. I believe she is looking for your respect more than flowers and a card. Why do men think flowers and a card solve problems for women?

Yes, two days later. It was a hand written letter not a card along with some a dozen roses. I had written the letter over a period of time. It reflected how I understand how she was feeling trap, how our life has changed and with some effort we could work thing out. What the marriage means to me and my hopes and vision od a new relationship. It was three pages long, short description.

The point is I do respect her and always will. But we both fell off the wagon and I'm trying to fix it some how some way.

Since her car broke down on Father's Day week I have talked to her in person three time regarding R. She has given me just a few more puzzle pieces. Like shes toying with me(maybe there is a chance maybe not). Most of the time she is very reluctant to talk to me about anything other than kids. So again How do I navigate the mine fields.

I have been pretty quite this week not say much to her. She has been calling and texting daily. I do not answer the calls or return calls, because she'll ussally leaves a text right after which I take my time to return.

Thanks Again Sandi for your imput.

[sandi2]

First of all I want you to know that I really....really understand. Anything I say will mostly be from the POV of a WAW. Although, it did help when you explained yourself better in this last post... I would not be surprised that that has not been a lot of problems in the past.....the communication between you and W. Apparently the two of you are very different from each other, and if so...that's okay b/c that is why you were attracted to each other. Heard a teacher explain that once and it was a fasinating subject!

The first thing you must do is to get control of your emotions. There is only one person's emotions you control and that is your own. (I know you realize all of this, but play along with me to make me feel better.) Nobody else can affect your emotions unless "you" allow it. That was a particular hard lesson for me to learn! Still have a lot of problems with it, but keep trying. But it is so true and it will not only cause you to feel more in control, but it will actually give you a sense of peace knowing that you are in control of yourself. You may not be able to control the stitch or another person.....but you can yourself. The point is, that you focus on "you" at this time and don't make everything about her. By that I mean, don't be afraid to set a boundary based on what "you" can live with and what you can't. You don't worry whether she'll get mad, won't like it, cry or pitch a fit. If she doesn't like it, then that is "her" problem to deal with, but you have to do what you know you can handle. You begin to think about things in life that "you" enjoy doing. You start putting GAL before you wonder if she's home or out with OM. Does that make sense? I'm not suggesting you become some type of self-centered jerk, but at the moment, your mind is so focused in on her and the stitch that you are not very attractive to her....to be perfectly honest. The thing that will help you become attractive is to get your attention off of her! Strange, huh? How will you do that? By setting goals to keep your mind occupied. Have your weekends or days off work as full as possible. Stay busy at night. You can have activities centered around the kids, but when they are with her.....you get a personal life with friends or doing hobbies, etc.

The next thing is to realize that most women have a problem letting go of things that happened in the past. All these things you've told me that you have brought up to her and explained.......I can nearly promise you that she's not let it go and she still resents it. Just b/c you explained something or even b/c you apologized does not mean she was able to lay it down and not resent it. Think about it. It is a huge symptom of WAW's. (Have you read the article on WAW's by Michele? It's here on the site.) If your W is ever able to go home and have a happy M, she must let go of past hurts and resentments. Not an easy thing to do, but it's a must!

Your other big goal must be about improving yourself as much as possible. I'm sure you've read all about that. Most of us can do more than we "want" to do! But the main thing is that you do it for yourself and not her....or not a ploy to get her back. Again, that focus must be on your good at this time, so it will stop you from pursuing her and making all the LBH mistakes that are so common. The only way you will do that is to detach from her. It has been told over and over again and again that when the LBS detaches, it will do more to attract the WAS than almost anything else can do. But, the problem is that the LBS does not "want" to detach and he/she keeps clinging on tightly. That pushes the WAS futher away. It is a fact of human nature! So, even though you may not want to detach, think of it as making you more attractive as a man.

Her respect for you as a man and as her H is vital. We women have to respect the man we are in love with b/c the two emotions for us are so intertwined. Men do not have to have the same feelings intertwined, exactly, but then the two ways of thinking and feeling for the sexes are very, very different! So, she must respect you.....and guess who will have to earn that respect? Even if you have lost part of it (either with your help or without it), you can earn it back again. Some men may never know what causes their W's to stop respecting them. It could have something to do with the way you talked to her or a number of things. Having boundaries will put her show of respect toward you into motion. For an example.....her not contacting OM in your presence shows respect. You know you cannot control her contacting OM at all, but she doesn't have to do it in front of you! If you think she should call before she shows up at the house unannounced, then you don't tell her that this is a "boundary".....(you don't tell her you are drawing boundaries).....you tell her what you can or can't live with or what you don't like. You shouldn't say, "I won't have you showing up here without calling first!" But, you could say, "I think I deserve a call before you come by the house." Make it about you and not about what she's doing. Don't fall into her little traps of asking "why". If she's that silly, just look at her for a long time and not say anything! She knows when she's rude or disrespectful.

Don't contact OM. You may want to call him or threaten him or whatever, but it very seldom works. Usually, the OM goes straight to the WAW and tells her and then she's furious with the LBH. Besides, it really makes you look too weak and pathetic. There is little you can do about the two of them except, as I said, don't allow contact with him in your presence. However, you don't have to talk about OM and you don't have to allow "her" to discuss her OM. You said she will not admit to OM and some day, she'll need to admit it, but this is not the time. Until she's ready to discuss working on the M, and the problems that caused the breakdown in the R, I think discussing OM will only lead to a fight. Your part in all of this is to act as if you are not worried by OM/affair. You are too confident and too sharp & sexy and any woman would be a total fool for leaving a guy as cool as you! Right? Right! That is the attitude you need to have. I'm as serious as I can be. If you don't think that way about yourself, then she won't think it either. We are not talking about being arrogant or humble....that is a different sermon...lol. This is not being conceited, even if it sounds like it is. A woman can tell if a man is truly conceited! It is being confident and that is sexy to a woman. So make that your number one goal!

Avoid all R talks.....period. You will know when she's truly ready for the big talk and I don't think it will be very soon. Anyway, you'll be able to tell by the way her face looks and how she sounds and the whole package.

This is another area that LBH's have a great deal of trouble. Men are natural "fixers" and they think if they can fix the problem by discussing it, then everything will be okay. It doesn't work that way. She has bottled a lot of stuff up for a very long time and the more you try to talk about it, the worse it makes the stitch. Now, she will try to drag you into a R talk, but don't take the bait. (Don't even try to convince her to move away from OW b/c she has to see for herself before it will do any good.) Let it be a warning flag everytime she tries to start R talks, and either hang up the phone, walk away, drive away.....whatever it takes to stop the conversation. Hold up your hand in a "stop" position and tell her you are not having a R talk. (BTW, don't tell her where you get your information about this DBing, either. These are your tools and not for her to know b/c it will lose its effectiveness.)

I also have a suspision about OW

How do you mean that? Do you mean the person she's staying with? Do you think she's enabling your W with this S, or do you think something else?

Don't do anything to enable your W's affair.....if she's having one, and apparently she's having an EA. Outside of helping with the child expenses, I would not enable her financially unless it was some joint bills....unless you want to give her a set amount. I guess it's like the sex issue....everyone has a different opinion about it. Do what makes you feel better. This was her idea to leave the home, not yours, remember that. I knew my H would not & could not give me help for a place to live and that was what actually kept me from leaving. If I had not been involved in an EA, then I would have moved in with my mother. Anyway, I never understood how WAW's could expect their H's to finance their expenses when it was her choice to leave.

I bet your W is very sensitive about how you speak and the choice of words you use. I have learned there is a difference in talking bluntly and losing your cool. So, you can "practice" with your kids in talking more subtle. Well, on second thought....that doesn't work too well with kids.....have to be blunt with them! You'll figure it out.

Yes I did and and offered it to a higher power.

You did the best thing right there and it will help you stay calm and collected knowing that that power is in charge of handling your worries.....instead of you doing it.

Haven't covered everything by a long shot, but it's a start. I appreciate you telling me what you did. I will try to help as best as I can. I never walked, but I certainly had the mentality of the WAW for a long time and I did have an EA. My H and I are doing good now. I hope that you will be able to tell some positive changes soon.

Take care,
Sandi

[mac-ct]

Sandi your perspectives on things from your experience is a treasure beyond worth.

Bravehardt - I can agree with so much of what Sandi says because I've seen it in my W.

The BIG examples:

your mind is so focused in on her and the stitch that you are not very attractive to her....to be perfectly honest

The next thing is to realize that most women have a problem letting go of things that happened in the past. All these things you've told me that you have brought up to her and explained.......I can nearly promise you that she's not let it go and she still resents it. Just b/c you explained something or even b/c you apologized does not mean she was able to lay it down and not resent it.

when the LBS detaches, it will do more to attract the WAS than almost anything else can do.

guess who will have to earn that respect? Even if you have lost part of it (either with your help or without it), you can earn it back again.

Ah - I'm all quoted out - I should have simply cut and pasted Sandi's whole post again!).

Chin up - engage first gear and get on with things you do have some control over.

Mac

[Bravehardt]

Sandi

I've been doing this for 4 months now, and I keep having setbacks. Mostly my W has jammed me up by not doing her part with the kids. I've been reduced to a part time business owner in a stuggling economy.

I would not be surprised that that has not been a lot of problems in the past.....the communication between you and W. Apparently the two of you are very different from each other, and if so...that's okay b/c that is why you were attracted to each other

Communication has been a problem, not always. We are not that different from each other, similar temperments and upbringing back rounds. When we talk I believe only half of what needs to be said is delivered. We had dissagreements in the past & now, but no knock down dragged out fights. Which seems odd to me now, most couples I now have major blow ups and recover(maybe this is our twenty year storm).

The first thing you must do is to get control of your emotions

Agreed. I have read DR. Re-reading again. The emotional side is in check, but the analyizing everything W does remains. I have been working on GALing and 180s. As far as looking good, I,ve dropped 55lb since March, when I start to think about sitch I drop and do 20 push ups. I need new clothes!

but when they are with her.....you get a personal life with friends or doing hobbies, etc.

This is a problem area for me. She he does not take the kids. She comes to the house for visits. She just took the girls over to the place she lives for the fist time two weeks ago monday for 24 hours. She has arranged to spend the night for a hand full of times, mostly for 16 hours or less. This does not give me much time to myself. Also the time she spends with the kids usually D 6 is at my home, so I have left for a few hours and came back and slept on coach. She does not help with any aspect of them right now. This past tuesday she text me that she would like to spend the night. I did not reply for several hours, then text her (lmk a couple of days in advance, tonite does not work). Because it was true, to late for me to change mine and the kids schedule around. She never set up another night. The W claims that she can't take the kids to her place. She has not done anything with them since they have been off this summer. She claims her work hours are all over the place because she is taking what ever hours she can get. There are times she could be with the kids, but would rather be with OM. I have been taking D 6-14 with me to as many get togethers and events as possible, S 17 has nothing to do with W or myself, he has withdrawn alot in the last 3 months(just the age). Like I've said before my wife makes up excuses for not taking all the kids (her sister told me that W claimed she did not have enough money to do things with all of them. She does have the money but its all about her(frivilous spending).

The next thing is to realize that most women have a problem letting go of things that happened in the past.

A freaking rolodex of sh*t I don't even remember half of.

How do you mean that? Do you mean the person she's staying with? Do you think she's enabling your W with this S, or do you think something else

Yes to all. According to my girls W has a room at a woman she works with home. The girls tell me she is doing little thing to spruce the place up, caring for her pets ect. She has a new set of friends that I don't know. There is one, which she use to work with also, I have felt that their might be something more their even before she left(no proof). Her life is a huge secret. She spends alot of time in a different county according to phone records.

Don't do anything to enable your W's affair.....if she's having one, and apparently she's having an EA. Outside of helping with the child expenses, I would not enable her financially unless it was some joint bills....unless you want to give her a set amount.

Yes I believe she is having one EA maybe PA now.
By not enabling would that include not pay for her cell phone?(this is my largest source of intel).

She is so far out there its hard to tell what works. For me not taking her calls and messages right away seems to get her calling back more often. But because of the S should I pick up the calls a little more often?

I need some suggestions on a few thoughts I had.....

What about car insurance? She wants to be so independant.

The W mail- should I forward her mail to her new place?

She has clothes and other items still floating around at our home. Should I put them in storage?

My D-6 needs a room of her own. Would dismanteling my W sewing room/office be a good idea?

Thank You Sandi your words are golden.

PS Anyone out there is more than welcome to chime in.

[Bravehardt]

Everything will be taken to heart. Thanks for looking in.

[Bravehardt]

I have a real quick question for anyone looking.
Bounderies.........

The W has just text me the follow(What time will D 6 be home. I want to see her today.)

Now please understand, the W last saw D 6 a week ago Friday, and has not called her since Monday.

She tried to set up something Sunday for Monday but it conflicted with my schedule.D 14 told me W drops by house unannounced that evening.


On Tuesday the W text me 10am. (Is it ok to come over this afternoon. See kids and spend the night?)The Kids were already gone for the day and we had plans that night. I did not see text till 3:00 my reply at 7:00 (lmk a couple of days in advance. tonite is not good.)

I get a texted on Thursday, same thing can I come see the D 6 tonite. They are out of town till Friday at my Moms. I tell the W this during a phone call.

Friday D 14 told me W drops by house unannounced that afternoon hang out for a few hours by pool, takes all my cold beer and leaves. I don't get home till 6 with D 6 and wife is gone oh well.

D 6 calls her Saturday and just gets her voice mail, shes crushed. Thats why I don't have her call her mom unless she ask to do it.(W tried to make me feel bad once by saying its my responsibility to have D 6 call her.)

So back to my boundery question.

I have plans with kids this afternoon. W just expects us to be sitting around. Should I tell her again to let me know her schedule a couple of days in advance and we can make the appropriate arrangement for her to visit her children.

Let me know how some of you handle this sitch.

[sandi2]

Hi, good to hear from you today.

I've been doing this for 4 months now, and I keep having setbacks. Mostly my W has jammed me up by not doing her part with the kids. I've been reduced to a part time business owner in a stuggling economy.

This must be almost as frustrating as your W leaving & having an EA. It causes a lot of anger, and rightfully so. As I said before, I think she is simply shutting that part of her life down. Goes along with her focusing on the youngest child only. You said she did not keep the kids and went to your house. Can you figure out some place you could stay until she left? You could just tell her that you have plans and not give her details. Tell her you'll have your cell phone if there is an emergency. That shows her you are not being "needy" of her and you are adding some "mystery" about yourself by not giving her details of you GAL. By really sprucing up when you go out....and acting all up beat and excited, she'll wonder what that is all about. It puts her attention on "you". See what I mean? That is why you must have a boundary about her calling and letting you know when she plans to stay with the kids. Tell her that you have to work it around your schedule. It is not fair to you for her to think she can pop in whenever she wants to stay with them and think you will stay there in the house the entire time. That places you in a "spot" where she can monitor what you are doing while she gets to do whatever she wants. Shouldn't work that way. If she stays there overnight, then I think you should either plan to stay with a friend or else come in very, very late that night. This may sound like a bunch of "games" to you.....but it works! Just don't give away the game plan.

You need to document everything about her not keeping the kids or doing things with them this summer. Never know when you may have to use that in case you have to file for custody.

The emotional side is in check, but the analyizing everything W does remains.

Analyzing the WAS seems to be as natural as walking for the LBS, however, it will cause you to stay confused, hurt, and most of all it will keep you out of focus. Remember your goals and that you keep your focus on "you" and not her. I understand.....and know I would be just like you wanting to figure out what she's doing. But, what would you do if you knew? Let me rephrase that....what could you do differently? I don't know that you can analyze her. She's already acting like a person you never knew before.

I have been working on GALing and 180s. As far as looking good, I,ve dropped 55lb since March, when I start to think about sitch I drop and do 20 push ups. I need new clothes!

55lbs?? WOW! I'm impressed.....and especially those push-ups! Yes, go buy some new clothes. If you can, get the clerk to give you an opinion about your style you're chosing b/c you may need to "update" it. Good job!

What about car insurance? She wants to be so independant.

IMHO, if she talks a big talk about independence, then she needs to "experience" it! How will she get the full affect if you are paying her way?

The W mail- should I forward her mail to her new place?

No, I would not do anything like that. It would show that she is on your mind too much. Can't she check it when she comes to the house?

She has clothes and other items still floating around at our home. Should I put them in storage?

Frankly, I think the shock of her coming in and see her personal things and her clothes packed up and moved out....would do a lot of good. It shows her that you are moving on without her. I think that is an excellent idea.

My D-6 needs a room of her own. Would dismanteling my W sewing room/office be a good idea?

Oh....PERFECT! In fact, the more changes you make to the house....the better. She needs to have as much of an awakening as possible. She will continue to stay in this emotional state for a long time and expect you and the kids to be docile about the whole thing. Why should the house remain the same if she decided she did not want to live there? Why keep her things if she's not there, right? Just be prepared with a good answer b/c she'll probably be outraged......lol. Go figure, huh?

[sandi2]

By not enabling would that include not pay for her cell phone?(this is my largest source of intel).

Unless you want to keep track of her activity on the phone, I wouldn't pay for it. I don't think the LBH should do anything to enable her A. I don't think he should help her with expenses to live away from her family.....but that's JMHO.

She is so far out there its hard to tell what works. For me not taking her calls and messages right away seems to get her calling back more often. But because of the S should I pick up the calls a little more often?

If not taking her calls & messages right away seems to get her calling back more often.......then you keep doing what works. You appear to NOT be as available to her and that is why she's calling more often. Just like the books says. It works.

I think the first order of business should be you telling her that there "has" to be some type of visitation schedule in place. Separated couples who co-parent.....or at least visit once in a while (b/c she's certainly not co-parenting).....have to have a system. It is only fair. She can either work with you about the times that she comes or you can tell her what will work or won't work for you. But, she must stop this dropping by unannounced or calling a few hours before. Tell her that has to stop b/c you and the kids need structure at this time and it causes an interruption when she pops in. How does that sound? She won't like it, so be prepared. She thinks of that as still her home and she can come and go as she pleases. She made the decision, now she has to live by "your" rules (boundaries). Remember to make it about what you & the kids can or can't live with....don't make it about her.

W tried to make me feel bad once by saying its my responsibility to have D 6 call her.

Man that is priceless! Did you remind her how she had neglected her other children? No, don't do that b/c it only leads to a R talk. However, do tell her that you cannot bear the look on D6's face when she calls and only gets a voice message. Again, make it about you and the kids.

I have plans with kids this afternoon. W just expects us to be sitting around. Should I tell her again to let me know her schedule a couple of days in advance and we can make the appropriate arrangement for her to visit her children.

First of all.....do not stay there. Keep your plans. If she calls before hand, tell her that you had already made plans and that she should have contacted you earlier. That may be the time to tell her that the two of you need to discuss a visitation schedule in the next day or so. But, don't let her keep you tied up today and ruin the plans with the kids. You may have to send her an email. Emails work well to keep arguments down. Can't hear the tone of voice in emails...lol. I think she'll fight the issue of a schedule b/c she's had her way about all of this....but too bad. Stick to your guns.

[sandi2]

You know that you are being a "baby-sitter" for her. She has it pretty good. She knows you are taking care of her children and the bills....and she gets to come and go when she choses.

I better stop before I fuel a huge fight!

[Bravehardt]

Sandi

You have given me so much info. As far as fueling a fire LIGHT IT UP........

So I'll request a copy of her working hours and then set up a schedule to jam her up on her days off.

Something to the effect - W I have asked for you to give me a couple of days advanced notice to set up a visitation. Please forward me you work schedule and I'll see what days will work out for the kids amd myself schedule. And by the way please call before you come over the kids don't need the distraction anymore.