I agree. He is miserable, he says so himself. He hates his life. But he doesn't see, will not see, that if he chose forgiveness and trust (which they taught us at Retro), things would change. He would have a nice home with a loving wife and children who aren't torn up inside. We would have more than enough money to put aside and save up to buy our own farm.
What does it take for him to see reality? I am thinking it takes logical consequences, espoused in those 'boundaries' books. A rebellious teenager has no motivation to change if other people fix their problems. And I have been trying to fix Dan's. At this point he will start experiencing the fallout more firsthand. And if he still refuses to see reality, I can't change that...
On the rope thing, when you write down those "things", Dan must be something very special to be forgiven even after 3 strikes. I wonder sometimes what the long term viability of the marriage would be if a was decides to come back. it can not be very high. For the kids.....perhaps.....but for how long?
It takes will, I want to loose weight and stop biting my nails. I can give you thousand of excuses why I dont do these things. Truth: I am ok doing it and I dont have the will to try. Same goes for my stupid husband. Mine even says he WANTS To try and I am the only person that he needs... (last week he said that). He doesnt have time to. Bullshit!!! No excuses, reality K
I just told him that he chose to be homeless and to have a leaking p.o.s. house, he had children and a wife who wanted him and a nice house to live in and he chose to leave it. Then I just had to ask, I asked "What do you gain from refusing to forgive? From holding a grudge? You get to be homeless and have a p.o.s. house, and be angry and depressed. How is that worth it?" I think I struck a nerve...
Good for you. All you did was tell the truth, and the truth is never a bad thing. You refused to play into his "Poor Dan" story, and that shocked the snot out of him.
His comment about not being able to look at you because of your lack of support...I think that's just a smokescreen. He HAS to hold on to something to make you bad and evil, because otherwise he has to own up to the fact he cheated on you probably even more than you know about. He has to own up to the fact that he broke his M vows, destroyed his family, and may be unwilling to give up porn and strippers. Not only that, but he did these horrible things and you are willing to forgive him...making you an even better person...and emphasizing what an idiot "bad guy" he's chosen to be.
So of course he has to blame you. It's not about the farm, it's just his excuse not to face his fear or what he's done.
He's got to get to that point all on his own, and I'm afraid there's nothing you can do about it.
In a strange way, I think real consequences to his actions would make him feel better...maybe? Because holding him accountable shifts the energy, and he'll have to work if he wants to keep you. He's kept you off balance...why change?
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
In a strange way, I think real consequences to his actions would make him feel better...maybe? Because holding him accountable shifts the energy, and he'll have to work if he wants to keep you. He's kept you off balance...why change?
SD
Trying to understand this part. Feel better meaning, feel justified in his actions? Or feel better about trying again if he is held accountable? Sorry I am a little confused...
Gathering up his mail today. I think I will just put it in the mailbox over at his fixer-upper....I would do a blanket 'change of address' request, but some of our mail has both our names on it still (medical bills for the kids, mortgage papers for my house) and I don't want to risk not getting mail that I need.
And as far as him having to hold on to something to make me the bad guy so he can continue doing whatever he feels like (strippers, cheating, porn, etc etc)....
He left his Retrouvaille journal at our house. I read through it all last week. On the session re. forgiveness, we were asked "What keeps me from forgiving myself for past wrongs or from forgiving you?".
He wrote "Fear that you won't change, fear and a desire to be able to use my past hurt of you or you of me against you and our relationship. Hogging my time and pulling me away from my goals and aspirations." My thought there is that he means if he truly forgives he would have to make time for us in his life, which means less time for cows, hobbies, strippers, etc.
Next ? was, "Do I really want to let go of the guilt/hurt that I carry?" and he said, "I really don't know. I'd like to but it would remove more of the excuses I have for how I act and I rely on theose heavily now."
So I think SD hit it on the head. He knows he has screwed up big time. But isn't motivated to change. So he holds a grudge against me b/c that allows him to keep doing the things he wants to do that he knows I would not accept if we were together.
"it would remove more of the excuses I have for how I act and I rely on theose heavily now."
he relies on excuses heavily?????
Wow, this is getting a little difficult to comprehend. Sounds to me like he just enjoys being single and not to have to report to anyone. I have to admit that there is a certain addictiveness to doing what you want when you want.
In a strange way, I think real consequences to his actions would make him feel better...maybe? Because holding him accountable shifts the energy, and he'll have to work if he wants to keep you. He's kept you off balance...why change?
SD
Trying to understand this part. Feel better meaning, feel justified in his actions? Or feel better about trying again if he is held accountable? Sorry I am a little confused...
Let me see if I can explain. Have you ever done something wrong, anticipated really bad consequences, and then they're nothing like you expected? Sort of mild? But you know what you did was really bad, and the ease with which you got by almost feels worse? So, I guess I'm thinking maybe Dan would be relieved to be held accountable, in a good way. He knows he did wrong...but he wasn't ever really held accountable for it. He just blamed you like a little boy trying to get out of trouble.
I'm not saying he'll hug you and thank you, and I don't even think he'd be able to articulate it. However, I think this sort of boundary-holding 180 with true moving on/detachment might help him drop that BBJ is a big meanie shield.
I don't know...maybe I'm wrong. When I read that he's said those things to you, I sort of want to say, "Well, I have no guarantee, belief or trust that you won't go screw some other nasty ho' either, but I'm willing to give it a shot."
Such a little boy he is....
SD
Me: 40 H: 43 H had EA from 2/06-9/06 Bomb 5/06 Piecing since 9/2006 3/2008: Boundary setting 7/2009: Boundary crossing~dropped my own bomb. 8/2010: Marriage finally on track!
The morning has started off very well, I am now down 8 pounds with 17 to go! Taking my kid to "Star Wars: Clone Wars". It is not a new movie but for the kids' summer series they are playing it on the big screen in Omaha this morning for $1 per person.
Went to the gym last night and ran a 5K just to see if I could... Actually it was the first day of my 8 week training for a 10K. I am running a leg in a Marathon relay with my sister in October. We each run 5.25 miles. I am seriously considering the PF Chang 1/2 Marathon in Phoenix in January. (Hear that, Jeff??) Trying to talk my college roommate into going with me. She is a professor now, used to be an athletic trainer in college...
And I asked my mom to buy me a bike rack for my birthday in 3 weeks. I can take the kids with me sometimes, and when Dan has them I can go out on the trails myself. We have a great 'rails to trails' system here and I have never been on it.
Actually it was the first day of my 8 week training for a 10K. I am running a leg in a Marathon relay with my sister in October. We each run 5.25 miles. I am seriously considering the PF Chang 1/2 Marathon in Phoenix in January. (Hear that, Jeff??) Trying to talk my college roommate into going with me. She is a professor now, used to be an athletic trainer in college...