Hello Kittyfish & Sandi2!

[sandi2]

I'll check out that thread. BTW, it wasn't my intention in my post to imply that tolerating my W's crap was unconditional love- it's not. It's just when my W starts with the criticisms it pisses me off- I'd like a little damn credit for my efforts here! Especially since most H's would NOT be so patient! (Yes, I know, wishful thinking.)

Don't get me wrong here. I appreciate the concern for my self respect- it's an issue that has been raised before by several of my friends in the recent past. If I didn't think my W was not presently right psychologically and emotionally, I'm not sure I would be able to exercise the amount of patience with my W that I currently am. The fact is, my W is in the midst of a serious personal crisis. I don't like having to swallow my pride for the time being, but it is what it is. It's a casualty of fighting for my M and my family. I realize I have my limits. I don't presently know exactly what they are, but I will know it when I reach them. I really hope for my W's sake I don't, because it won't be good- I am not going to allow her to damage me like that. I have no intention of sacrificing myself to the point of losing my self respect. All the more reason to focus on detachment.

I certainly understand what you are saying. There were some “responses” to my post about unconditional love and FaithfulH pointed out some things in my post the way he interpreted it, and made me realize that I sure don’t explain myself very well at times. There are different ways for different people but in the end, I believe we all want the same thing. I also see so many of us getting frustrated here on the board b/c we want to see something good happen in these lives. But, you said something that made me think of what FaithfulH said on Orich’s thread about how “nice & sweet” takes strength….and it does. I have always believed you were definitely a man of strength. There have been several LBH’s on the board that I did not see that way and as much as told them, but you have never appeared to be anything less that a man of strength and solid character. There is a difference in a loving determination and a strong heart to see ahead of the darkness. You said your W was in a “crises” and you are absolutely right! That is exactly how I described myself when I was a WAW. I first thought I was like having a MLC, only my age didn’t seem to fit the pattern. Long time board members didn’t think that was it, but all I knew was I was in a personal “crises” and needed help. That is very important that you see this in your W and realize that it’s not just a M thing with her. It is not just about the OM or you or the R, but it is “everything” that has ever happened to her all tied up together and she wants to escape this disappointment (for a lack of better term) and find a fantasy land where all her dreams come true. Crazy! She is trying hard to convince herself that the OM is her ticket. It’s not him. It’s her fantasy that she’s hooked on. God, I don’t even know her but I wish I could shake some sense into her, so I can only imagine what you are going through!
It is coming down to the wire now and I know you are sick over all of this. I wish I could do something to help. All I can do--is be here, and you can depend on that. I know why they call you Big John. You are a big man. Keep hanging on BJ. We never know how things may turn around. Don’t give up yet.

[BigJohn]

Well the W and kids just left for their trip. Before they left, I took my W aside in the bedroom and closed the door.

I told her first that it did not appear that we would be able to cover all of this month's bills and to severely limit expenses while on the trip. She was quiet for a moment before asking if we could try to refinance our car loan to get a lower payment. I said I didn't know if we could or not. We talked a little more about finances and I told her that the savings is gone- we'll have to start tapping 401K money pretty soon. I made the comment that we are paying a helluva price financially as well as in our marriage for this trip she and the kids are going on. I think for that moment my W started getting it- at least the financial part.

I was calm and collected when I told her that I didn't know exactly what to expect to happen with her on this trip. I told her that I am doing what I am doing because I recognize that she is going through a very serious personal crisis in her life right now. I said to her "Please do not burn your bridges with me on this trip." She responded "I won't" followed by "nothing is going to happen".

After loading up the car along with the kids, I said a prayer with my family. In my prayer, I asked God to watch over and protect my family while on their trip. As my W was getting ready to pull out of the driveway, she asked me to get something for her out of the garage. When I came out of the garage, my W came out of the car and gave me a big hug followed by a kiss on the cheek- I reciprocated. I don't know exactly what that (kiss and hug) means.

I'm sitting here writing out this post trying not to cry- hoping that my W does not burn her bridges with me. I am not wired like my W. Unlike my W, I very rarely vacillate- once I make a decision I do not go back on it. I hope my W remembers this about me through the haze in her brain.

I have 10 days alone- just me and my cat. I'm going to use the time to reflect and catch up on some projects. I am going to draw up a living trust for my kids along with an advanced medical directive. I am going to designate my mother and grandfather as my agents for both the trust and the directive. I am also going to reapportion all of my life insurance 100% to my kids instead of my W. Don't misunderstand- I have no plans on kicking the bucket anytime soon. In fact, I plan on living a long time! But this sitch has opened my eyes to some terrible possibilities for my W and especially my kids were I to die. They would surely be cleaned out financially by some parasite- if not that rotten bastard OM then some other OM. I just can't trust my W's judgment now- at least not for a very long time. So working on this and the other projects will hopefully help with my peace of mind. I think it will. Being prepared for anything always brings me peace of mind.

Thank you for the prayers and encouragement Sandi. And don't worry, I won't give up.

[sandi2]

I read your posts on Jmans' thread last night. You can put your own pain aside to help another member who seems to be in a bad place, and that says what kind of man you are. I admire that. Even though you were going through a bad night, you saw him on the edge and was there for him trying to give support. BJ, I hope while she & the kids are gone on this trip that you can have time to reach out to other people here on the board b/c I think you have valuable information and are an encourager. I think you could reach men & women with your advice b/c you have that talent. They need you if you feel up to doing that. Glad you have plans to stay busy. I hope her hug meant something, too. But we've learn (I hope) not to set up for disappointment.

[MrBond]

Try reading this. It might help.

Hang in there.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html?pagewanted=2&em

[BigJohn]

Just dropping by my thread with an update. TM'd my W last night at 11:45 p.m. her time to wish her a Happy Anniversary and got a quick response back: "You to".

Was putting some stuff away in the attic today and ran across a box with a bunch of love letters between me and my W while we were dating in college. I started reading some of them and it really brought back a lot of good memories, especially how much in love we were back then- and how much I still love her. I wish I could share those letters with my W when she gets back from her trip, but I know it just would be a wasted effort and could make things worse. I shouldn't have read those letters- they make me tempted to write my W an email- I know that she is checking our email (and I'm sure she is checking her separate gmail account as well)- but I know that won't help my cause either.

Well tonight I'm going to be hanging up a large picture frame my W took down for Xmas decorations last year and never hung back up. It has a lot of good family pictures in it- including pictures with me in it! Not sure how my W will react to it when she returns, but it'll be up when she does.

[sandi2]

Hi BJ, been thinking about you. I hope you won't torture yourself by looking at old pictures and reading old love letters. You are setting yourself up for more temptations and more pain. Stick to your originals plan you had made to do while W is gone.

Aren't you glad that you didn't do more than TM her on the anniversary? Now you see her reaction to it. When is she scheduled to return home?

[BigJohn]

Aren't you glad that you didn't do more than TM her on the anniversary? Now you see her reaction to it. When is she scheduled to return home?

Sandi,

I am glad that is all I did, especially since she was very likely with OM at the time. I checked Facebook to see if my son had posted any vacation pictures- none- however I noticed on my W's Facebook page she had made a happy, suggestive comment about spending time with one "special" friend during her vacation.

I checked OM's MySpace page and he had a blaring marquee post announcing how he spent the entire awesome weekend with an "old friend". This just confirmed what I thought would happen- my W immediately dumped my kids at my in-laws and ran right into the arms of OM.

It's amazing how my W is taking OM's bait- hook, line and sinker. I'm sure that she will come home more convinced than ever that the grass is WAY greener on the other side of the fence. She is certainly being brazen about dating OM while staying at my in-laws with the kids. Her entire family including several of her friends know what she is doing- and doing to me. She is basically humiliating me in public at the expense of her own personal integrity and despite our church's stand against adultery. Is this some sort of passive-aggressive attempt by her to force me to file for D? If so, I'm not going to bite.

She and the kids are due back around the 17th. In the meantime, I need to start thinking now about how I'm going to deal with my W upon her return- I'm assuming she'll be riding a monster "high" when she gets back and I'll look worse to her than I ever have before. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated as always Sandi.

[sandi2]

Wow, I sure had hoped she would get the boot from OM...and I'm sure she will later, but I had hoped it would not go as far as a PA. Sure sounds like it has based on his & her FB. I am so sorry. Unless OM shows his true colors before she leaves, then I am afraid you are right about her feelings toward you. In my personal opinion, I think it's time to use tough love when she comes back from the trip. I would not stay under the same roof with her since she has been brazen about this A and has not respected you enough to protect your name or your feelings, nor has she cared enough to sheild her children from her adultry. It is so shameless and I believe she should be held accountable for her actions. Will the Church do anything about her membership? She probably won't care since she's gone this far! Anyway, I think you should have her stuff sitting by the door when she comes back home. No more Mr. Nice Guy from this point on. If you don't use tough love now, I think all is lost.

[BigJohn]

In my personal opinion, I think it's time to use tough love when she comes back from the trip. I would not stay under the same roof with her since she has been brazen about this A and has not respected you enough to protect your name or your feelings, nor has she cared enough to sheild her children from her adultry. It is so shameless and I believe she should be held accountable for her actions. Will the Church do anything about her membership? She probably won't care since she's gone this far! Anyway, I think you should have her stuff sitting by the door when she comes back home. No more Mr. Nice Guy from this point on. If you don't use tough love now, I think all is lost.

Sandi,

My W is completely out of touch with reality. It's like she is a single 18 yrs old again and I and the kids just don't exist period. Or if we do, we must be completely expendable. Up until now, everybody on my side of the family has tried to keep out of the sitch as best as possible. But I got an earful today. Basically, the message was no one gives a sh*t anymore if my W is going through a personal crisis/EA/MLC or not, she is simply being a complete disrespectful b*tch to me, the kids and everyone else and it is totally unacceptable. They don't want to hear about DBing from me anymore- everyone wants me to open up a can of whupass on my W now. I think that even some of my W's family want me to react that way. I know that on my side of the family, they universally believe that the only chance of my W "waking up" is if she actually experiences a massive does of reality and accountability- possibly separation, most likely divorce. It's the same conclusion my IC came to a couple of weeks ago.

She is already on thin ice with our church with her behavior as it is- I was told recently someone concerned about my W contacted a church official anonymously to report her behavior. (I don't know anything about this.) I understand that this person plans on having a private conversation with my W. If she did have a PA which can be somehow proven (not sure what the burden of proof is for the church) then she will lose her membership in our church. Another cornerstone in her life wiped out.

It remains astonishing to me how screwed up and massively obsessed my W has become over this EA and OM. There is no way in hell OM is going to come live in our state nor is my W going to go back there to live- at least not with the kids. Yet she continues to try with all of her might to force her fantasy to become a reality- regardless of the costs.

I am very torn. Nobody is sympathetic towards my W; everybody is putting all of the blame for the EA on her. They are pissed off I am even owning up to not completely meeting all of her needs in the first place. They don't understand why the hell she didn't communicate these issues to me before in the first place. And, they don't think the OM is really much to blame since it is my W who is driving the EA and he has her chasing him now.

This OM is a very bad person who is and will continue to hurt and use my W. He seems perfectly content to assist my W in completely destroying her M and family. Yet, I continue to be reminded by family members that my W's free will trumps my obligation to protect her.

I'm in a tough spot. I have a lot of things running through my head right now. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[MrBond]

Okay, first off, it doesn't matter a single bit what anyone else thinks. Only what YOU think. You make yourself feel strong and confident in knowing that you are doing what's right. It's the exact same thing she's doing. She's doing what she feels is right.

Anyone who goes through DB knows what it's like. No one else. Don't look for validation from anyone else but yourself. We've all been there.

Like so many others have told you, you need to detach. The more you pushed for her to "see reason" the more she became set in her resolve to do her own thing. Think of her as a teenager (which is what they say people in MLC are like). When you tell a teenager they can't do something, they'll do everything they can to show you that they can even if deep down inside they know they can't. It's a process.

In a scenario like that, do you let the teenager dictate how you should act? Of course not. You do what you think is right and let them go out to fail. If they insist on getting a car, yet you know they are a lousy driver, you don't tell them they can't drive, you take your name off of the insurance and put it in their name.

Like the article said that I posted last week. You have to let them come to grips with their own decisions.

So if you knew that she was leaving on this trip that could potentially bankrupt you, you should have set a boundary of not letting her get to your family's finances. Cut her off. Tell her if she wants to continue to spend, then she has to earn her own money.

Better yet, since she crossed your boundary of her not seeing the OM, I would pack her bags where she can find them waiting for her when she gets back.

There are times when you take the Nice Guy approach, then there are times when you take the hardline. Like DB says, do what works. While they're away, write out what worked and what hasn't. Come up with a plan and execute.

Remember you can't control her, but you can do something about what YOU want. Stop her disrespecting you. Start showing her that you've got the balls in the family not the OM.