I'm glad that you didn't seem to be put off by my reply. After I pressed 'send' I thought that perhaps my left brain was bit out of control. I am analytical by nature. That can be both a blessing and a curse.
First of all...........what is a DAM???? Please educate me.
Secondly, after reading your synopsis I think it might help you more if rather than offering you my opinion (not sure how much that is worth since I don't know the players as well as you do) I ask you questions that might help to clarify your thoughts. You don't need to share your answers here, but hopefully these questions from an objective female 3rd party might be helpful.
1. Why did GF break things off w/her son's father? What made her realize that she wasn't in love w/ him? Did she try to work through problems with him or did she break it off without communicating her concerns to him?
2. Do you think GF is interested in a long-term relationship at this point? When I was 38 (I think you said GF is ~38) I was planning for the 2nd half of my life. Women are supposed to be driven by security (have you read "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It?" by Pat Love and Steven Stosny? I highly recommend it for its description of the female perspective.) I know that the search for security has played an important role in my mate selections even though I am quite self-sufficient. Do you think that you represent security (i.e. financial, emotional) to your GF?
3. Do you know what GF's expectations from a long-term relationship are? I'm asking because I gather from your comments that you are looking for a long-term relationship. Are her expectations from a long-term relationship consistent with yours? Do you think GF's expectations from a long-term relationship are realistic?
4. Re: her hesitation to move forward b/c she's "not right" and needs to figure that part out, it sounds as though you're not certain what she means by that. When I was in my 20's I repeatedly said something like this to a man who cared very much for me. I said this because I was trying to learn how to be healthier in a relationship after my 1st marriage ended (I didn't have this behavior modeled for me growing up). I had reservations about my compatibility with this man but he treated me better than my previous relationship (abusive 1st husband) so I was honestly 'trying on' a new type of relationship for me. It took me at least 1-2 years to figure out how I felt about this man. I think if I had gone to counseling at that time I would have figured things out more quickly. Is GF in IC?
5. Do you think GF has healthy boundaries? or unhealthy boundaries? Because of family of origin issues I have always had trouble with boundaries. I tend to have very high boundaries that can collapse quickly with the right trigger(s). I am working on that. Your GF may have similar boundary issues. Maybe you could try to have a talk with her about that topic if the opportunity arises. This could be one of the reasons you're feeling like you're not making clear progress?????
I hope that some of this is helpful. I'm heading off to bed now.
I have a few misgivings...but I usually do. I don't like her being really angry towards her X. Anger or hate is not the opposite of love. In my opinion women that aren't interested in a guy are completely indifferent to them...or maybe grossed out. Women...care to chime in on that? To have such strong emotions about him aren't "right" as she puts it.
It's fine if she wants to go slow, but I think while you are being "patient" that you also practice a little more of the focusing on yourself. I think continuing to move forward is probably the better plan. You'll eventually resent her slow pace if you are waiting for her to get off the snide. She's taking steps back from you...or at least no steps towards you. I'd give her more space while you pursue other interests to a greater extent. Being the one more committed to the relationship puts you in an awkward and weak position, kind of like an LBS. Just my thoughts.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
Hey, Guys! There is a lot to chew on here. Thanks so much for the feedback. In your own ways, you are all able to touch on things that have helped.
Before I begin, DAM is "dumb-a$$ man." We men are all simple, stupid beings...and if any of us says differently, they are in denial. I found out the only way I can begin to "understand" women is to be willing to admit that I don't know $hit about women. Thus, I'm a self-proclaimed DAM!
Ok, now to try and address all of your posts:
Kat: I am questioning myself b/c I've never been here before. The questioning and doubt is a habit from my past where I'd let fear, doubt, and my own insecurities sink in and would in fact move to sabatoge things that were going good b/c I felt I "didn't deserve it." So, old habits do die hard, but I'm glad I have this forum to put my thoughts out there and all of you then do your part to help put me back to reality.
GAG: Lots of good questions and I'll try to do them justice. Regardless, know that they are very thought-provoking and have been helpful.
Ok, GF realized she didn't love her son's father and was only with him b/c she was fearing the end of her biological clock period and wanted another baby. She did try and try hard to make things work, but in the end she realized she was w/him for all the wrong reasons, despite trying to convince herself otherwise.
I do think GF is interested in a long-term relationship, but I think she's very wary of one b/c of the fact she hasn't had good long-term relationships in the past. I think she's afraid to invest time and get burned. As for therapy, she's just started a new job, so her benefits don't kick in until Oct. 1. At that point, she's hoping to start IC.
As for expectations, neither one of us are in a hurry to get married or move in together, so we're on the same page for that. However, we've both talked about things and seem to have similar goals concerning a R. The difference is I'm ready now to commit, while she isn't there yet.
I think her boundaries are ok, but they do need to be firmed up a bit. Again, she's planning on moving into IC in October when she has benefits, so most of my questions will most-likely be left unanswered until she gets that ball rolling.
Phoenixdeux: Great to hear back from you, my friend. It has been a long time. I really appreciate your post as it has allowed me to do some thinking.
First about her "anger" toward her X, she's not happy w/that at all and that is the reason she feels "not right" currently and is looking forward to IC in October when her benefits kick in. She has no romantic ties to her X, but she's still very bitter and angry about how he's treated her. The good news is she's looking to get something figured out w/IC on this subject.
The part of your post that stood out the most w/me is part about my need to refocus on myself and I couldn't agree w/you more. While GF has been in limbo of sorts, I've put myself there as well. So, again, you've got me thinking and today I was pretty ticked at myself for letting some of "my things" go and I vowed to get re-dedicated in a hurry.
I need to get back exercising for sure and my golf game needs to come out of the closet. So, once I can get those two things in order, I think I'll start feeling a lot more comfortable w/the situation w/GF b/c I'll be back to looking after myself and allowing the rest to merely fall where it is supposed to.
Again, thanks to all of you for your help and insight. I'll post a bit of an update on GF and I in a bit.
Since I posted my last update, things have gone well w/GF and I. This week, I had dinner w/her at her house on Monday and was w/her for dinner last night as well. She didn't have her son w/her, but I also decided not to stay the night.
She has been excited to see me and talk w/me. She's been calling and texting as well, which is a bit difficult for her to do at times.
Yesterday, she signed us up to play on her office co-ed softball team - something we've been talking about - and she's really excited for us to start. Today, she talked about my joining the gym where she works out so I can help to motivate her to get in and work out.
These are important "tid-bits" b/c she's normally been very uncomfortable w/these types of things in the past. She's told me how things like playing softball or working out at the same gym have been unenjoyable for her in the past, but now she's doing things to show she's excited about doing these things w/me.
Also, the past two days she's been affectionate and has made sure I give her quite a few kisses before I leave. On Monday, I told her I was heading home and she stopped me and said "Don't I get a kiss?" Last night it was her that "swooped in" for more after I had walked outside to go.
So, I guess things are moving forward for us in the right direction, but as I stated before, I'm not used to this, so my natural reaction is to doubt it and look for reasons to nit-pick.
However, the past few days have opened my eyes to the fact I need to get back to doing things for me which will not only make me more attractive to GF, but - MOST IMPORTANTLY - will make me feel a Hell of a lot better about myself.
In the end, it really is about my being able to take care of myself enough to where I can enjoy the love of a special person w/out compromising who I am and who I want to be.
Ok, I'm heading out now. I'll talk w/you all later.
I think the meer act of you putting that stuff on here and thinking about your own needs gave your gf enough of a vibe that she responded. I'd love to see a relationship that wasn't all push/pull, but I think the natural dynamic is that when you draw back, which I suspect you did at some level, she was drawn more toward you. Somewhere in the happy middle, where you attend to your needs and to some of hers, sounds reasonable. I'm glad to hear that you are going slow with things.
You cannot be lonely if you like the person you're alone with. Dr. Wayne Dyer
It is odd for me as well to have a relationship not evolve quicker on a physical level, but in the end, that is why this is good for me to experience as I've had my share of unhealthy relationships up to now.
As for the drill sargent, I need one as I'm spending too much time NOT working on myself. So, I've decided to get angry w/me and look at this weekend as the time when I get back after things and begin to work on my exercise routines in addition to spending time on my golf game.
I have to agree w/you that by focusing on what I need for me is having an effect on GF. This is something I have to do regardless of what happens in this relationship.
The past few months have been a bit trying and I've ended up putting what I want on the back burner. So, now it is clearly up to me to continue to have a life and do the things that I'm interested in or else I'll fall back into the old habits and traps that didn't work out so well w/my M.
If I take care of what I need for me, the ability to find a good place to meet in the middle will be easy to do. Another example was last night as she was the one who was affectionate and wanted to kiss, touch, etc.
So, her interest is there, but I have to make sure to keep on "Having a Life" of my own.
Thanks again for the reminder and feedback, my friend.
You're doing 'aces' on ALL fronts! From my feminine perspective I see 4 major positives in your recent posts: (1) GF wants to include you in socializing with her work associates, (2) GF wants to work out with you at her health club, (3) GF has been initiating (this means that she has not only been thinking about you but places importance on initiating contact AND feels comfortable enough with you that she is letting down her defenses a bit) AND (4) you are showing self-respect by taking care of yourself. I agree with the other posters that #4 is VERY important for all of us here especially, but also for everyone really for life.
From a woman's perspective when a man respects himself (as long as he is not selfish) he exudes confidence. Confidence and thoughtfulness are very s*xy to most women (remember I said before that women in general seek security). Like Jody always says "a generous spirit is sexy" (my paraphrase of something she says to me a lot). I think generally speaking that women find men to be attractive if they are confident, generous, and thoughtful.
When you take time to take care of your mental and physical health, that sends an unspoken message to a woman that you are not needy. This makes her feel like she won't need to take care of you all the time. That said, I like the idea proposed by Harville Hendrix' IMAGO therapy that in a healthy relationship both people switch back and forth between the roles of caregiver and recipient.
Jody also says that a good belly laugh releases oxytocin, which is a hormone that promotes bonding. It is released after orgasm, but for those of us who don't have that option, here is a suggestion for producing belly laughs that worked fabulously when my H made an unscheduled visit to the house last evening. H came to collect some boxes of his stuff to move into his new house. He invited himself for a beer on the patio (his idea). After listening and validating for a couple hours, ala DB, I remembered that I had bought a new book called "More Adult Mammoth Mad Libs". For those of you who are uninitiated, Mad Libs are a children's word game (Google 'Mad Libs' for more info). Adult Mad Libs are the adult version. You can buy them on amazon.com or Barnes & Noble. The person you are playing with provides parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, etc.) without knowledge of their context in the story. For the adult version I recommend that you provide creative, spicy, and suggestive words (e.g. sweaty, sticky,.......) as well as unusual words (e.g. hairball, toe nail clippings....you get the idea). When finished you read the completed story to the person who supplied the words. I was able to flirt in a major way with my H by doing this and he was laughing almost as hard as I was. I'm sure he'll be back to 'play' Mad Libs again. This could be a way to spice things up with GF........Just an idea.........
Maybe I'll start my own thread to do group Mad Libs with everyone?????? What do you think?
Next thing I have observed. She is the leader and you are the follower. Women who always lead a man sometimes find it very difficult to have the right "romantic feelings" for that man. They go back and forth, back and forth.... (which seems to be what is going on in your situation)
For example... The plans to go to Vegas. First she was going, then she decided she didn't want to go. She then wanted to stay around local. You just blindly went along with whatever she wanted. You allowed her to be wishy washy and just followed whatever she wanted. Then calling it being patient. I call that why you consider yourself a DAM. DAM not only lose women but have a hard time getting one to commit to him.
The man who LEADS (and the man who gets the woman) does it this way.
"I am going to Vegas over labor day weekend to have some fun and relaxation. Would you like to go with me? She then says yes or she says no or she isn't sure. NO MATTER what answe she gives the man IS GOING. With or without her. DECISIVE, confident and secure. She is welcome to come, if not he is still going. AND HE DOES. You allowed her to lead you. NOT GOOD in the long run. When she backed out, you should have said to her. "Ok, that's too bad. I'm still going and maybe we can do it some other time.
She also is controlling when you see each other. When you kiss. She is controlling the playing softball, where you will work out and how fast the relatinship is moving. NOT ATTRACTIVE. "I am playing softball this year, would you like to play on the same team together?" Then YOU sign up by yourself or sign both of you up depending on her answer.
What? Are you scared to lose her by being a leader? The answer is for you to take charge more of your own life. Tell her YOU are the one who wants it to go slow. YOU go slower than she does. Make her see that YOU are not sure if SHE is the right one for you either. You are holding back and being the nice guy that wants he to see how paitent he can be and hope that she sees what a great guy you are and hopefully she will fall in love with you because of you undying devotion to let her lead and control every aspect of the relationship.
Your key is to NOT keep doing more of the same, but to start to LEAD. IF you ask her out and she turns you down, then make other plans and stick to them and don't call her. Go out and have fun without her. Tell her that you too need to take it slow. Let her feel that YOU are not wanting to go fast because YOU don't want to rush because you are not sure. NOT because she isn not sure.
Become a leader of your own life. Quit letting her lead everything including the pace while you sit and hope she will fall in love with you. In the long run she will never have the right feelings for you if you don't become more unavailable, busy and take charge of what YOU want and make plans on your terms, with or without her.
I found out the only way I can begin to "understand" women is to be willing to admit that I don't know $hit about women. Thus, I'm a self-proclaimed DAM!