The worst line offered here in the DB forums is 'don't go down cheeseless tunnels'. Dr. Phil says, "you own your marriage". I agree with him. You can't be an ostrich and stick your head in the sand. You need to know the truth.
The tunnels usually DO HAVE cheese. This forum is a great place to take back control and improve yourself. Sadly, this forum is also a place to hide in denial FOR A LONG TIME.
I mentioned one book above but the other was a pdf I downloaded that was written BY A WOMAN about those women who cheat and then drag their M's out, or, hang in limbo. It's the classic DB scenario. She will tell you that the majority of spouses (women in this case), separate NOT 'to sort things out and think things over' but because there is an OP and that they want the marriage to die a slow death instead of suffering the guilt of ending it right away.
Separation is a death knell. Not all but the majority proceed to divorce.
Sitting around and waiting....enabling poor behavior...failing to draw boundaries...and avoiding conflict....will NEVER appear attractive and draw your spouse back into the relationship.
FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
Hey FIB, I have been saying this (OP) for a long time. It is now (actually has been for a while) obvious. Why would a spouse up and leave a marriage where the other spouse (although not perfect) is not abusing him or her? "I need space" = I need time to figure out if the other person (who I have been seeing for a while) is the real deal. So in retrospect, when you hear that or the other lines including the "I love you but....", just get the hell out of there. Sure there are logistics involved and kids....but if you want to have a chance, that is the way to go. I guess going dark right away...but hey we may be a little tainted.
Fellas, I agree that most of the marriages that hit THIS website are already on life support and close to death. Not all, but most it seems.
I don't know that I would ever advise to jump straight to saying "that's it" however.
First of all, most of us could never do that. We didn't do that because we COULDN'T do that. We had to believe that this was some aberration, some mistake. We had to believe there was a chance.
Make no mistake, there are marriages saved here. I honestly believe that there are a good number of situations where reconciliation is one day possible. The problem is, it usually would only occur LONG after so much damage has been done that the left spouse would have moved on.
I still believe that many of them look back at some point and wonder what in the hell they did to their once decent life. I know that my ex-wife is feeling the pain of leaving her boys behind to make her life with her soulmate. There is something inside me that would like to think that there is even the occasional acknowledgement inside of her that I wasn't so bad either.
Many of the success stories here occured after YEARS of abandonment. In some cases the men and women involved simply never felt compelled to move on, and they were available when their wandering spouse finally turned their eyes home.
But again, we are talking YEARS in most cases.
There's nothing healthy about living every day for YEARS hoping that your spouse will return. Especially if you are unwilling to at least continue living your life.
Yes, most separations come with an affair. Anecdotally at least that would seem to be the case. As Mom told me, "I told believe the sailor abandons ship unless he has another one already lined up."
It's hard to advise newcomers. But that doesn't mean we can't steer them to the right direction WITHOUT taking away their hope.
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Well said Bill.....as usual. Just a small clarification: when I wrote get the hell out, I meant physically. Not emotionally, because you are right, we can not / could not do that.
Hey guys.. FIB "Sitting around and waiting....enabling poor behavior...failing to draw boundaries...and avoiding conflict....will NEVER appear attractive and draw your spouse back into the relationship."
That wasnt true in my case. I DID sit around and wait, I always always saw him, even when he gave me only 10 mins notice. I met him for drinks when he was with ow and said not a word about her, I drew no boundaries at all and yet he still came back. He came back for love, once he had gotton past his 'breakdown'. I believe a small number of WAS will come back naturally, no matter what we do, as long as we are still loving and consistently THERE. BUT you may as well go off and do anything in the meantime, live your life and be happy (apart from get an OP yourself), as staying indoors being depressed didnt change the outcome! I could have spared myself the misery. I wanted to post this to Newcomers too, but I just couldnt!
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
You are in the minority Ali, and, as Bworl said above, most marriages that arrive here are terminal. Piecing, as you know, is not easy. And...many piecers suffer continually with recurrent indiscretions and issues with lack of trust only to find themselves back where they were months or years later.
Negative comments? Perhaps. But it is the reality that one must be openly conscious about. I stand with Bworl. I support everyone who comes here to save their marriage. Personally, I stayed through 3 indiscretions, so, I 'stood' until I knew in my heart that I would never get past the swarth of destruction that occurred during my STBXW's MLC march to the sea.
In the long run, and in retrospect, I think going into that cheeseless tunnel with a torch and the support of friends to find cheese is a lot less painful than finding out about cheese when you've been told there is none there years later...starts the recovery immediately.
Of course, JMO. LOL. FIB
Me 55; XW 47; 2 kids (S13, D11) Bomb 05/19/06 Original thread http://tinyurl.com/yg2ou2t Last anniversary 04/25/10, Divorced 5/12/10 Status: Loving father of 2 beautiful children;
There is always a reason people choose to overlook obvious signs. I have been thinking about it a lot. I swear I had no idea this was happening when he was still living with us. I SENSED he was attracted to her, but thought his foul mood/anger etc were because he felt he was tempted and didnt know what to do. I wouldnt believe anyone if they told me that they had been meeting everyday for a year before he moved out...
I was more aware of my surroundings when he said he wanted back. I could see he was weird. What confused me this time was that I couldnt answer the question "why would he come back AFTER a WHOLE year, risk my kids' emotional state if he didnt mean it or if he wanst clear he loved me?". That seemed too absurd and more mashocistic than sadistic to me. Especially since I was on a friendly mode with him, making sure he saw the kids etc etc... It's just didnt make sense. The fact that he kept at this for almost a year -more if I had not found out I suspect- was not making sense to me.
I believe a lot of people could reconcile. I believe timing is crucial. I believe that people either reconcile very fast or have to wait till a cycle closes and a new chapter is about to begin.
I cant think of reconciling with my stbxH. NOT because of what he did. I cant lie. When I agreed to try, I knew there had been another woman. Not for so long and not one he fell so much in love with, but I knew I would have to get over that part as well. It was not a dealbreaker. And I am not aware of other affairs, I believe he is not the serial cheater type. There was/is SOME good in him. I think he made the worst choices when faced with guilt. So immature and lousy choices.
I cant think of reconciling with him because I believe he is lacking all those qualities that make people fighters. It actually is the reason he turned to this woman. Isntead of fighting to "fix" what was broken (because there was something wrong with us), he just... replaced it.
If I was in his shoes and felt I loved him, I would be doing EVERYTHING in my power to make him change his mind. EVERYTHING. If he, lets assume- was feeling he loved me, he wouldnt be able to overcome himself and fight for me. And that is NOT the man I want by my side. I dont want a man that gives up.
So, John and FIB and Bill, I am not as absolute as you guys are about some things. Maybe I am a hopeless romantic like Ali says. But I am looking forward to my future. And I dont plan to miss another chance. If I get it. K
I cant think of reconciling with him because I believe he is lacking all those qualities that make people fighters. It actually is the reason he turned to this woman. Isntead of fighting to "fix" what was broken (because there was something wrong with us), he just... replaced it.
Ditto for me. I was willing to forgive and put the affair behind (with a lot of work), but during the divorce process, she never showed me that she was strong enough to fight for our marriage. And when she asked for a second chance, right before the D was final, she did not have the guts (or loss of some pride) to express her feelings to me.
Kerry pride is a huge hurdle. Not just for WASs but in general. Maria, there is no doubt in my mind that you will get another chance.... In retrospect, as it pertains to cheese, there is no doubt that it is better to find that cheese earlier rather than later (smells less maybe). However, what is better, to find the cheese early or to never find it at all (even if it existed)?
