Given the length of the affair, the abandonment of his family under the guise of "working too much" (which we know is true, but not the whole story now), and the to-your-face lying when confronted about his relationship (do you remember him telling you that you were nuts and that he had NOTHING with this woman but a friendship?!!)...
...there is nothing he could do.
There are some betrayals, for me at least, that go too far.
I mean, maybe he could change...maybe. But it would be a complete LIFE change at this point, wouldn't it?
We have a saying here, maybe you have a similar one...
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME."
Blessings,
Bill
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Too much damage over too long of a time period. Your H and Bobbi Jo's dont seem to have the emotional strength and honor to fully regain trust and love.
You and Bobbi Jo should consider that if there were no kids involved, would you want these deceitful men in your lives?
Are you willing to risk having your kids hopes raised and possibly hurt again?
Then I guess I am the fool. I know that my ex cheated on me once before when we first got married. I took in to account that I was gone a lot as a flight attendant, I had fertility issues and he appeared to be genuinely sorry. I was also still in love with him.
I was young, didn't know what work needed to be done. We got pregnant shortly after I was involved in a near fatal accicent(yet another reason I stayed). Things just kind of went on from there. Our second child had medical issues that required weekly hospital visits until he was just over 3(he just turned 14 yesterday). By then we had our daughter and thought we were done but the big guy upstairs had other plans. We had our last child not quite 21 months after our first daughter. She was a good baby but a very difficult toddler with frequent melt downs that only I could seem to stop. Lots of stress raising the family, hardly seeing each other while working 3 and sometimes 4 jobs between us. This is where we failed each other but we both thought we were doing what we needed to.
Then came his DUI and putting the blame for his drinking on me. He still would go out on occasion with the overly confident attitude that he knew how much he could have. Looking back now he may have been cheating then but really it doesn't matter now. I know that I should have felt happier when we were together and I didn't. I gave him his second chance, a real chance as we built our family and he threw it all away. I can't say with all honesty that I am happy now but I am way better off and I have my kids. Take what you will from my situation, I am not a fool now.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Arent 99% of the people on here cheating? Havent we all agreed to that? So, does that mean 99% here should just drop the issue?
And dont all cheaters lie? How can cheat and not lie?
I am not defending stbxH. I am just typing my thought process and need some help to clarify the impossible from the possible.
Bill, stxH lied to me 1 year while staying here, 1 year I brought her up a few times and he denied she existed and since he "Came back" he was careful to answer to my remarks about her except those times as you said that he blew and said I was nuts... Yes he has shown he is VERY capable of lying to my face and doing everything to gaslight me and make me think I am crazy.
And yes, I doubt he could change. I doubt he could take the crap he WOULD have to from me, granted there is no such thing as trust anymore.
Still waiting for an asnwer to my questions. And to be honest, I cant wait to tell him all the reasons I can not try with him again. I would love to see him trying to defend himself, using his "power" on me to convince me. I would love to hear him say he loves me desperately and that he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me. I am sure he wont. K
(((((Kalni))))) I agree with what is being said... but...
You are the only one whose opinion matters. You get to look in the mirror every day, and know that you did the right thing for YOU, and the kids. (I'm inclined to think the right thing for you is the right thing for the kids.) So, no matter what I think, or we think, it's really up to you. And no matter what you decide, I believe we (ok, I shouldn't speak for others, but I'm going out on a limb) will support you.
I don't really know if it's possible to attach your actions/responses to other's experience per se. Although you may get something that stands out & speaks to you, your course of action is & should be your own.
No matter how many times I read that your H had ample opportunity to get his sh*t together, I go back to, as Schnarch says in Passionate Marriage, "We always pick a marital partner who's at the same level of differentiation as we are."
A lot of time is spent here talking about your H and his foibles. Yep, agreed, he has many.
The question to me becomes, do you take a leap of faith (along with a b*tt load of action oriented positive steps on his part), and look at things from the view that you may turn your marriage around if you make it through the crisis point. Isn't that what Michele refers to in Divorce Remedy as Stage 5, together at last, after you've weathered the storm.
I know your H has said & done some ridiculous things, so if you're finished no one can blame you.
If, on the other hand, you're not entirely sure, it may be worth going through some more of what will undoubtedly be difficult circumstances to see if it leads to a better connection as a result.
Special K - I also have to agree with what is being said. I was like Kat in that the A that led to divorce wasn't the first. The first happened 10 years ago. We never learned properly how to grow from that experience. When things started getting good again, it was put out of mind. And we stopped growing. And then it happened again.
What I learned is that if you have a chance of recovery, it rests on the cheating spouse's ability to transform their characteristics. It doesn't matter how much you love them or how much they love you, but whether real and lasting change can be achieved. Like Bill said, stbxH has to honestly admit things to himself and then be able to successfully deal with them to the point that they'll no longer be a problem. Big task.
What would be enough for me to re-enter the "phase" again? Nothing, because my past experience showed me that XW isn't capable of doing what Bill said needs to be done, to admit things and then successfully deal with them.
For me, the problem was that when things were good there was no problem. But when I couldn't give what I usually gave, when I had a problem, I couldn't trust my XW to be there. She knew I'd be there for her and still tries to take advantage of that, but even though she'd always say she'd be there for me, time and time again I was shown that I couldn't trust her. A partnership is built on that trust. But I loved her so kept trying to convince myself it could be different.
So you have to ask yourself whether you can trust him to be there for you even when things are bad. I think that's the bottom line.
Trust? I dont know lodo. Cheater once always a cheater? I dont believe that. If you look at the reasons why and you identify the pattern. I have never cheated on anyone of my partners, but I could sure see how it happens and when/if I would feel attracted to someone's personality (that always does it for me), I could feel the tension and quickly retreat so that the other person would not get the wrong idea. Ever since I met stbxH, I think my commitment to him was so visible, noone ever could come close to me thinking they had a chance. Cause the didnt.
That among others changed last year. OK, we were separated to be divorced but my heart wasnt any longer his. To me, that meant a lot.
I am not really considering reconciling with H. Not out of fear. In a book it said, dont enter again in the R if you think that it if ever happens again (the cheating) you would no longer be able to heal in the future. I could heal. I could live my life well, but that by definition would mean I would never have given myself completely to him. I would always keep a part of me, to myself. My core self, my soul maybe?
I dont know what stbxH intents to do. I mean after my reasoning why I cant do it. I dont think he will do much. And that will be again very telling I have made the right choice. K
Special K - I also have to agree with what is being said. I was like Kat in that the A that led to divorce wasn't the first. The first happened 10 years ago. We never learned properly how to grow from that experience. When things started getting good again, it was put out of mind. And we stopped growing. And then it happened again.
What I learned is that if you have a chance of recovery, it rests on the cheating spouse's ability to transform their characteristics. It doesn't matter how much you love them or how much they love you, but whether real and lasting change can be achieved. Like Bill said, stbxH has to honestly admit things to himself and then be able to successfully deal with them to the point that they'll no longer be a problem. Big task.
What would be enough for me to re-enter the "phase" again? Nothing, because my past experience showed me that XW isn't capable of doing what Bill said needs to be done, to admit things and then successfully deal with them.
For me, the problem was that when things were good there was no problem. But when I couldn't give what I usually gave, when I had a problem, I couldn't trust my XW to be there. She knew I'd be there for her and still tries to take advantage of that, but even though she'd always say she'd be there for me, time and time again I was shown that I couldn't trust her. A partnership is built on that trust. But I loved her so kept trying to convince myself it could be different.
So you have to ask yourself whether you can trust him to be there for you even when things are bad. I think that's the bottom line.
lodo
Wow Lodo, you described my situation exactly. My STBX still seeks my approval but wants the divorce. Thanks for the wisdom.
