Loafer has great advice again, but it is probably more a generalization about most women. There are exceptions. No matter what, women are a mystery to us men. I reckon that it works both ways.
Lord knows I DO NOT want to do the chasing. You should say "in general" and not lump everyone together. Putting yourself out there is hard enough without someone telling the guy to pull back so you wonder what the hell is going on. No games. Be honest and let the relationship play out naturally.
Gosh, no wonder we are all in the mess we are in when we are trying to get involved with another person.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I agree that Loafer does have some good advice, but as both kat and Kerry have pointed out, it doesn't always fit every situation. In my situation, I do have to be careful to not be "too much of a wuss" and the important thing is for me to continue to have my own life that can co-exist just fine w/or w/out GF. If I can't do that, I'd be staring co-dependency in the face, which is somewhere my unhealthy former self went and I don't wish to return to any time soon...or ever.
This past week, GF had a lot of trouble w/the surgery she had on her finger. She was drained emotionally from it as well as physically from the pain. So, she wanted to have some time to herself this week and I obliged w/out issue. She also was a bit bummed when they removed the bandage from her finger and she saw the scars and discoloration of the finger she had surgery on. It bothers her b/c it is "ugly" right now. I know she's upset and I've been able to give her space to be alone. Honestly, it is the 1st time in a relationship of mine that I've been ok w/stepping back and letting my girlfriend "breathe" w/out me. It is a good feeling to see myself evolving a bit and to know I'm confident enough w/myself to let us have time apart.
Did I miss the contact w/her? Absolutely, but I stayed away not b/c I was playing a game, but b/c it is something that is healthy for us all to do from time to time. The "gift of missing me" is important for not only my situation, but for all of us as we need to spend time apart in order to appreciate the person we're with.
Anyway, she thanked me this week for giving her space and it turned out that it made her want to be w/me more. I went over to see her last night and while she was outside talking w/a friend, I was inside talking w/her brother. She sent me a text asking if I was going to come outside to be w/her. I did go outside, but not right away. Why did I wait? I think it is important to be an individual and be able to see that I can exist w/out being tied to someone's hip. Why did I end up going? B/c she wanted me to go out and be w/her and join the conversation? No. I went outside b/c I wanted to be w/her.
To me it makes a big difference and shows that I'm ok w/myself and am not a "clinger" who is super needy of attention.
This may read as me playing a "game" but I really disagree. Instead it is me growing up and maturing to the point where I can resist my ingrained habits that were detrimental in my past relationships.
Ultimately, as a relationship develops, there is more of a set, defined role that takes place and I think we're moving in that direction. Kalni mentioned that GF may be gun-shy about opening up to me b/c she's had trouble w/relationships in the past and I completely agree. I am firmly confident that I am a total 180 from any and all guys she's been w/before and that completely scares her. She's mentioned it casually that "that's how they all start out" and "that's what they all say at first" so I get the strong feeling that she's afraid I'll turn out to be "just like all the rest of them." Kalni also asked if I was GF's rebound, which I may be, but I won't know for sure until more time has passed.
Now, I'm also being careful b/c she may be testing me and in the end, she may never be able to open up completely. If that is the case, I'll be ending this one and moving on. However, I won't really know this for sure until some more time has passed. I feel as if we're progressing, I honestly do feel we're growing together, but if things don't continue to evolve, I'll know it is time to move on.
Another point about letting her miss me is today when I got home, I had trouble w/my cell reception and it wasn't until I shut the phone off and turned it back on that I received the 3 texts she sent me. The first thanked me for coming over last night, then she sent a text after her nap to see what I was doing and another 1/2 hour later or so, she sent another one to see if I was ignoring her.
I laughed at the last one and sent her back a reply asking if she was missing me or something to which she replied "maybe" w/a smile. So, I know she is missing me and that is a good sign for her b/c she has been so guarded w/her emotions in the past.
I am frustrated in a sense that she isn't more open w/her feelings b/c that is the type of person I am...we Scorpios are very upfront w/our feelings. So, to hold back has been difficult for me, but again, I've been involved w/disfunctional relationships in the past and they've never been like this. My T told me if a relationship feels good and comfortable to me, I should be very wary and possibly run b/c "good and comfortable" in my experiences haven't been healthy. So for something to feel odd isn't that bad b/c it may be that I'm finally going about things the right way.
I'd love to be making love to her right now, but she's not ready for that step. Don't get me wrong, as we fool around quite a bit and have knocked on the intercourse door many, many times. However, she's not comfortable right now, so I'm not going to push it. This is another area where I can feel we're getting much, much closer, but if she doesn't want it, I don't either. It isn't a one-way street nor should it be. If it is meant to be, the wait will be well, well worth it.
I'll close by saying that I've been doing a lot of horoscope reading and the signs, moons, compatability thing is interesting to look at and there seems to be a lot of truth in the descriptions about how both GF and I do things based on when we were born. What I've discovered that my sign is used to being heavily involved in a relationship quickly and will wear our emotions on our sleeves while GF's sign tends to move slowly and very cautiously w/relationships.
The conclusion is that everywhere and everyone I've talked to about the compatability of our signs says that if I can be patient w/how GF operates, we have a chance to develop a wonderful, exciting, long-lasting relationship. If I can't do that and I give into my natural urges concerning being w/someone, GF will hit the trail and run.
So, for now, I'm going to try and be patient, receptive, and open to new ideas. I'm going to listen and read the signs as I see them and continue to throw out my thoughts here as well as w/my RL friends. In the end, if it isn't right, I think I'll know it and be able to walk away.
For now, I don't feel the need to go away, but do feel the need to continue to build my own life about me that GF will be included into (and vice-versa). A healthy me will not only be more confident and attractive, but he will be able to understand, pin-point, and recognize the warning signs that say this should end as well as the positives that say this should continue.
So, I'll just keep reading signs, practicing being a better, more complete me, and posting my inner thoughts, questions and concerns to my wonderful DB friends to get your valued insight into my post-divorce life as I near the end of my 30s.
Thank you all. I love and respect every syllable that you send to me.
Rob, No one wants to feel as if they are everything to the other person. You may well think the world of them but be able to be a person that is confident and happy on their own. That goes the same for men and women. Sorry, I had a nerve touched earlier, but I honestly believe that love isn't a game of manipulation.
My ex seems to think that when it comes to our children. It is very sad to see from the side lines. Unconditional love is the ultimate and as long as you do what you do to make yourself a better person in YOUR eyes and not in anyone else's I believe you are on the right path.
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
I honestly believe that love isn't a game of manipulation
I believe this whole-heartedly as well. I'm not trying to manipulate anything w/GF, but what I am doing is trying to establish more of myself alone instead of being dependent emotionally on someone else.
So, I do think I have to "give her the gift of missing me" not to manipulate, but to make sure I'm doing the right things for me. If I "stay away" then I'm forced to do things for me and about me.
Not doing this in the past has done nothing but got me in trouble. I understand what gucciloafer is saying and the part of me acting needy and insecure is what really resonates w/me from his posts.
However, I also know that when things are moving forward, the dynamics change as the roles develop in the relationship. I do feel we're moving forward and I think my being able to give her space when she needs it and still have her want to be w/me and to miss me when I'm not around are good signs.
I do think I'm growing and at times my insecurities of the past do come out and are voiced here on this site. It most likely makes things in my new R seem worse than they are.
My instincts want things to go faster, but that is b/c that's what I'm used to. Going slow is hard for me, but that doesn't mean I'm in a bad situation or I'm doing things incorrectly w/my GF.
In fact, I'm believing I may be looking at the opposite this time around, but if not, then at least I'll be able to use this situation to grow, learn and evolve as a man so when I am in the right relationship (whether it be this one or another in the future), I'll be a better man, a better friend, a better lover, and a better partner to whomever I'm supposed to be with.
In fact, the next book I'm cracking is one suggested to me by Jody - "How to Improve Your Marriage w/out Talking About It." Jody's been wanting me to read it since I've been working w/her over a year and a half ago, so it is about time to do some homework. I'm hoping to glean some insight to building and sustaining a successful, loving, and lasting relationship from that book (among others I'll read) because I do believe what Kerry said "women are a mystery to us men."
I'll call myself a DAM at times, but only b/c I'm saying I'm admitting I'll never be able to understand women and how they tick, but at least I'll continue to try to unlock some of the mysteries and become as good of a man in a relationship as I can.
Life is constantly about learning it seems. I'm finding out that relationships and matters of the heart are no different. When I stop trying to learn and improve, that is when my relationships will begin to turn sour.
I haven't read the "do it anyway" poem. Can you send it to me? I'm interested in reading it.
I'm looking forward to starting HTIYMWTAI b/c I feel it will help me w/this current R and any others if this turns out not to be the one.
I also looked up Cunningham's blog and I've subscribed to his newsletter. I liked what I read and it can only serve to help me to understand more how we men are so different from all the women in our lives. At worst, I'll continue to learn and try to find ways to avoid simple mistakes in communication. Thanks for the recommendation.
I'm glad you came by and posted and thank you for your supportive words. I hope to hear from you again soon.
Yesterday's game was going to be tough coming off the big upset of USC. I was hoping they'd avoid the let down, but honestly, if they were asked at the start of the season if they'd be ok w/a 2-2 start with LSU, USC and a road game at a much improving Stanford, I know they'd have taken it gladly.
I LOVED that link. I was cracking up, not only at how crazy she went, but his running commentary was very funny. Good stuff indeed.
One thing that I find interesting about GF is when we first started talking, she said she dated a few guys before me who drove her crazy b/c they would get really upset w/her when she didn't answer their texts or e-mails right away. Well, I've made sure not to ever do that b/c it reeks of insecurity, but it is a bit funny that she did that to me yesterday.
I don't think she's insecure about us, but I do think it clearly shows she's interested in me and us. I've been pretty quick w/replying to her texts, so I think it is a good thing if I occasionally don't reply right away. Again, not to play games, but to show that I'm my own person and not at anyone's beck and call.
It is all part of developing a healthy me as well as a healthy groundwork for us. She still waits quite often before replying to me, so there does need to be some balance. Again, on the positive side, I don't get anywhere near obsessive and needy when I don't hear back from her right away. Instead, I just roll w/it, continue to do my own thing and realize we'll talk later.
I mean, there has been nothing dishonest about our R up to this point, so I see no reason to doubt GF. For me to try and worry about why she's not geting right back to me ASAP would only be self-defeating for me and lead to my projecting old habits of fear and insecurity on to my present R. Again, in a way, this is an excellent opportunity for me to learn and grow in terms of having a healthy R. I'm taking this as a opportunity for growth, so I really focus on just existing, limiting expectations and going w/the flow.
As I've said before, if we do continue to move forward like it feels as if we are, then our roles will begin to change. One thing that must remain the same, however, is my ability to do things for myself apart from her and for me to continue to trust and believe in her. I'm doing this so far and it is working...although, as I've said time and time again, it is so new and foreign to me that I'm a work in progress this time around.
Evolution of RTL is a good thing as the old RTL didn't love himself and wasn't truly happy. Now I can see what I need to do and this R w/GF is helping me to become a better, more confident man.
Thanks for sharing.